[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

People without a long string of qualificatIons are in the type of job most likely to be negatively impacted by freedom of movement. That's the important factor.

julianwilson - Member
If it helps you chewkw, I live in a modest 3 bed house in a poor town and yet the sofa I am sat on is no more than 300m away from a maker of luxury yachts.
Luxury Yachts

Who is that? Sunseeker International? 😛

The amount of spin is extraordinary

No different to any other newspaper then. At least I know it when I see it though 🙂

chewkw - Member

julianwilson - Member
If it helps you chewkw, I live in a modest 3 bed house in a poor town and yet the sofa I am sat on is no more than 300m away from a maker of luxury yachts.
Luxury Yachts

Who is that? Sunseeker International?

Well that's rather disappointing. I was pinning my hopes on the UK's future on exporting luxury yachts given that WTO tariffs won't be a problem for them.

aracer - Member
Well that's rather disappointing. I was pinning my hopes on the UK's future on exporting luxury yachts given that WTO tariffs won't be a problem for them.

The shipping industry has gone pear shape long time ago.

They went this way ... Europe > Former eastern Europe (I think main one is Poland) & also Japan > South Korea > China > nobody knows ... Cannot remember where America is in this market but I suspect it went the same way. I bet the buck will stop in China because no one can build anything cheaper, quicker and with the necessary quality.

Europe is hanging onto the luxury yacht sector coz this is a small market that is not sustainable, hence the competitors let it be for now.

Dyson employees around 7000 people, to be blunt I don't know why he gets any air time its not like the business is Bosch, Siemans or Miele for that matter. This country places far to much store in the Dysons it's not like his company makes a **** of a difference to the economy. Just like Tim "wetherspoon" a man that delivers cheap beer and crap food to the masses and thinks he has a grasp on the impact of WTO. Being rich or poor doesn't make you clever or thick and this is ably demonstrated by David Davies, Liam and Boris. At the end of the day We will get a shit deal as there is no other deal available.

And when we sell our souls to the US NZ OZ Canada we will get flooded by cheap crap food, cheap raw material but we will be able to sell them financial services ahhh they already have them... never mind poor people will have cheap chlorine chicken and grain fed beef for all.

It's like Carry on Brexit a 1950s comedy farce- Sid James must be spinning.

its not like the business is Bosch, Siemans or Miele for that matter.

can't see any competing product for my Dyson V8 cordless from those companies.

Tim "wetherspoon" a man that delivers cheap beer and crap food to the masses

it's mostly the same beer as is available in more expensive pubs - and the carpets in Weatherspoons are prety good.

I bet the buck will stop in China because no one can build anything cheaper, quicker and with the necessary quality.

the thing is we really shouldn't be buying so much stuff from China with their human rights issues and the working conditions in a lot of their factories - if people had an principles. And we shouldn't be dealing with Saudi, etc.

Think there will be more or less Chinese stuff post Brexit TG?

Think there will be more or less Chinese stuff post Brexit TG?

who knows - what do you think ?

Its not the hardest question

tbh your opinion on china and others is commendable your side stepping the question much less so.

the thing is we really shouldn't be buying so much stuff from China with their human rights issues and the working conditions in a lot of their factories - if people had an principles. And we shouldn't be dealing with Saudi, etc.

I completely agree but it's getting harder.

My Turners that I love (and I assume you do too?) virtually all Asian now. The push for carbon made it nigh on impossible to manufacture in the US.

As for the Chinese question - I think there will be more stuff as it will become more expensive to buy from Europe. I'd wager a few quid on that.

More, as the terms of any trade deal will be much less favourable then we have/would have in the EU. We're ripe for the plucking.

We'll be bending over for all these guys and the govt will sign anything with "trade deal" written on the cover to preserve the red top bragging rights. What's inside will not me material.

Obvs, it was a rhetorical question

haha, it may be obvious to you and me, but we can't take anything for granted around here.

My Turners that I love (and I assume you do too?) virtually all Asian now. The push for carbon made it nigh on impossible to manufacture in the US.

Aren't they made in Taiwan though ? - don't think they have the same human rights record.

Its not the hardest question

tbh your opinion on china and others is commendable your side stepping the question much less so.

don't see why - there's no FTA between China and EU so, with the current arrangements, I can't see why it need be affected.

http://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/09/02/2017/rebalancing-eu-china-relations-case-eu-china-fta

have you an opinion or are you just trying to score forum 'points', as usual ?

My opinion is still that it was a rhetorical question that you sidestepped for the reason matt highlighted.

My opinion is still that it was a rhetorical question that you sidestepped for the reason matt highlighted.

perhaps I am training to be a politician.

My opinion is still that it was a rhetorical question that you sidestepped for the reason matt highlighted.

that looks like a sidestep as well...

Haha STW chat forum thread becomes self-parody.

it's mostly the same beer as is available in more expensive pubs

Wetherspoons was a nice idea and definitely helped progress real ale and small breweries. It doesn't seem to work that way now. it's cheap and downmarket. The choice is actually quite limited.

TurnerGuy - Member

the thing is we really shouldn't be buying so much stuff from China with their human rights issues and the working conditions in a lot of their factories

It's getting better, certainly in the industry I used to be involved in (fireworks). Working conditions (and therefore cost) had improved so much that several people I knew of were looking at restarting manufacture in the UK.

Haha STW chat forum thread becomes self-parody.

It would have been more like a parody if we had had a referendum that offered 3 choices :

Hard Brexit
Soft Brexit
Remain

and then after the result of referendum was in and the biggest loser eliminated another referendum was run using the results from the previous referendum, but with voters given the chance to switch their vote.

Should voters switch their vote or not ?

Oh no - that's more like a paradox I think.

How can you sidestep a rhetorical question? 😆

Personally, their human rights is their problem as I am not concerned about how they treat their own people coz that's their business but this boil my piss ...

strange outlook...

Well given the result, TurnerG, was 16-17, the absolute softest of Brexits would actually have reflected that fabled beast "the will of the people".

But we're not getting that, we're getting a 99-1 Brexit.

That there is a huge problem and why people like me are so intransigent. We're treated like we stayed in bed that day and the "reasonable leave voter" as if they are hardcore Faragist.

(lol @sbob).

Imagine the result reversed, we wouldn't have suddenly joined Schengen and Euro ("hard remain"), and we'd have had a very serious conversation about how the concerns of the 48% could be addressed too. Anything else would be undemocratic.

But for the hardcore 10% on the real winning side, reasonableness doesn't exist.[s] Right is might[/s] Might is right and the Tory party needs them so they get their way.

Staggering.

TurnerGuy - Member

Personally, their human rights is their problem as I am not concerned about how they treat their own people coz that's their business but this boil my piss ...

strange outlook...

Nothing strange coz all the animals never bothered me.

Animals are straggling to survive.

Human is overrated.

Human is overrated.

Every time I read your posts I think the same.

Leku - Member

Human is overrated.

Every time I read your posts I think the same.

Reduce human population and peace will prevail.

Increase human population you will have a hell on earth.

"Practice what you preach" springs to mind. But that would be cruel.

[quote=sbob ]How can you sidestep a rhetorical question?

a very good point ....but you know what I mean

sbob » How can you sidestep a rhetorical question?

Oh another one. They're like buses.

mImagine the result reversed, we wouldn't have suddenly joined Schengen and Euro ("hard remain"),

True

and we'd have had a very serious conversation about how the concerns of the 48% could be addressed too.

Extremely unlikely - how could they be?

Anything else would be undemocratic.

How appropriate

But for the hardcore 10% on the real winning side, reasonableness doesn't exist. Right is might Might is right and the Tory party needs them so they get their way.

Tosh..

Staggering.

Quite

that was fun.

Tosh..

[i]*pinch of salt time[/i]

igm - Member

Oh another one. They're like buses.

Rhetorical questions now come with free wifi? 😯

You forget Dave and George would still be all powerful

Dave promised the referendum to appease that wing of his party… no one can do that dance any more.

he did it because he wanted to win the votes of the fruitcakes and closet racists and he expected the Lib Dems to be there to stop him bring able to do it.

I am sure he regrets it now.

Sbob - I missed a 😉

I was just showing off about our buses. Leather seats and air-con too.

Extremely unlikely - how could they be?

Pretty obviously, by introducing controls on immigration.

thecaptain - Member

Pretty obviously, by introducing controls on immigration.

Don't we already have controls on immigration?

Is there an echo in here?

Reduce human population and peace will prevail.

I would be fine with removing anyone happy to drink soup made from the fins of sharks...

Indeed the Tories had already promised that crap and failed to deliver

Kelvin. Responding to your edit. If anything has happened since the vote, it's a softening of our approach. So "tosh"

sbob, we have the power to implement much stronger controls over EU immigration but successive govts have chosen not to (up to now). Of course we have the power to do whatever we want about non-EU immigration.

Wetherspoons business is smart as it allows poor people to get pissed more often in what appears to be a socially acceptable environment. But like Greggs that other bastion of poor folks income removal they only serve an internal market- they have zero value add to the UK economy other than employing lots of poor people. Not saying I don't like Wetherspoons or Greggs but you have to keep it in perspective.

The following may not be well received- I do think that a lot of 65 to 85 year old blokes in this country have been hankering after a war that they were to young to participate in. Brexit delivers this.... sad but probably true.

t they have zero value add to the UK economy other than employing lots of poor people

The 13% increase in share price today suggests otherwise

Untrue and therefure sad - more like

I do think that a lot of 65 to 85 year old blokes in this country have been hankering after a war that they were to young to participate in.

thecaptain - Member

sbob, we have the power to implement much stronger controls over EU immigration but successive govts have chosen not to (up to now). Of course we have the power to do whatever we want about non-EU immigration.

Yes, this was covered 850 pages ago.

Still not sure why anyone would want to stop central European hotties from coming over though... 🙁

The 13% increase in share price today suggests otherwise

You can't tell from that. If all they did was move cheap drinking from the Off licence to their pub, their share price could go up without a net contribution to the UK economy.

Of course that doesn't preclude the possibility that they have made a net contribution either.

But you know that THM - you're far better informed on financial matters than me.

slowoldman - Member

Well speaking as one whose dad did fight in that war and having heard the tales, I'm staggered that anyone who didn't have to participate would be hankering after it. Peace and co-operation beat conflict.

Absolutely this.

Plus another 1. Grandad, conscientious objector and couple of days after D-Day medical orderly though.

This is interesting if he means it. Big promise.

Sky News has learnt that David Davis told a gathering of bosses at Chevening House that the UK would enjoy a comprehensive free trade agreement with the European Union after Brexit.

I do think that a lot of 65 to 85 year old blokes in this country have been hankering after a war that they were to young to participate in.

Some truth in this I think. Watch Farage's Twitter, there's lots of "here's me hanging out with some jolly veterans", basking in the reflections of someone else's heroism basically (I don't believe he ever did any military service himself). It's aimed at somebody.

You can't tell from that. If all they did was move cheap drinking from the Off licence to their pub, their share price could go up without a net contribution to the UK economy.

Lost me there

Surely not.

Displacement not growth? No.

Oh well.

teamhurtmore - Member

Lost me there

I think what he is saying is that 'spoons serves only as a primordial pit for people to devolve back into, and that if they all burnt down the world would be a better place.

ETA: sbob does not condone arson.

Cameron promised the Referendum as 1) he's a democrat 2) he thought he's win - same reasons for Scottish Indy Ref as EU Ref

Well that's rather disappointing. I was pinning my hopes on the UK's future on exporting luxury yachts given that WTO tariffs won't be a problem for them.

@aracer why not go through the WTO tariff list and have a look. Average tariff is 3% and many countries don't bother with vast swathes of the tariffs - they just use zero. Tariffs (in general) are highest on food to protect farmers in poor countries. We would be free to agree low tariffs with selected producers especially in products that we don't produce. On the specific yacht example I wonder how Sunseeker / Princess UK vs EU vs non-EU business breaks down ?

@tmh a decent portion of people I know working on "no deal" options are looking at closing or selling their European business as its not really worth continuing with. Others will just transfer bookings to existing offices

IGM =-

Davies has been saying that all along. He is either a liar knowing it to be humbug or simply deluded. There is not even going to be a serious negotiation. There is not enough time now to have a comprehensive negotiation and we don't have the expertise to do it.

On the specific yacht example I wonder how Sunseeker / Princess UK vs EU vs non-EU business breaks down ?

Remind me is Monaco on the EU?

Sky News has learnt that David Davis told a gathering of bosses at Chevening House that the UK would enjoy a comprehensive free trade agreement with the European Union after Brexit.

Did they also learn that today is Friday?

Jambas, not sure where you people work: all major U.K. Banks have announced plans and locations * if they loose passporting rights as have all major GIBs working in London.

* some remoaners even lie that they have already acted which is BS obviously

Lost me there

poor people to get pissed more often in what appears to be a socially acceptable environment

I know it is simply frightful that they are let out of the house, it would be much better if they stayed at home with their Carling.

Some truth in this I think.

Obviously not very hard or you are dimmer than a Brexit voter.

My apologies all. I thought Davies had been saying that was what he was trying to get but no deal was an option, and (as reported) he's now changed to that is what we will get (i.e. he'll compromise on other things but he will get that).
I may well have read too much into it.

Going back to the original question. I'm not a UK resident so had no vote in this but if i could then I'm out

nothing that has happened in the last year has changed my mind

yes the tories are fubarring the whole process but as a resident of Europe in a country that is not in the EU and never will be I cannot for the life of me see the attraction. All divorces are messy. Just get on with it. No-one outside of the UK actually gives a sh1t anymore and is really bored.

Obviously not very hard or you are dimmer than a Brexit voter.

Classy.

where do you live darrell and why out?

Don't beat yourself up IGM there is so much remoaning noise around that it's often hard to see the wood from the trees 😉

Plenty of people outside the UK should give a sh1t. If not they are being very foolish

@darrell the EU and member states do give a sh.t as they need our money. The whole Brexit Bill is a smokescreen to divert the conversation away from "wtf are we going to do when the second largest budget contributor leaves"

1) pay more
or
2) get less

EU's solution as I linked to previously seems to be to invent new Europe wide taxes to the tunes of €12-15bn pa and call them "environmental" or "tax avoidance" measures

As for "getting on with it" thats exactly what the UK is trying to do. What the EU is trying to do is keep us effectively in as long as possible so as to keep receiving our money

People outside the UK are bored with the posturing and blustering and perceived self-importance of the UK.

whether it's important or not to business or politics is irrelevant to the vast majority of people

I am English by birth but have lived in Norway for 10 years. We are part of the EEA but absolutely will never fully join the EU.

where do you live darrell and why out?

@matt you do see that its only poor countries who are trying to join ? Rich countries just want a trading relationship with no ecj and no budget contribution. As above Norway and Switzerland have made it clear they'll never join

No one's pretending Brexit won't damage the EU (it's another reason it's stupid, why damage your neighbours?) but 10s of thousands of well paid finance jobs - the people who actually net contribute, a good proportion of the UK's brain drainers, and a few car factories will sweeten the pill though.

People outside the UK are bored with the posturing and blustering and perceived self-importance of the UK.

Perhaps. We have been reluctant Europeans after all. But they should also consider why

whether it's important or not to business or politics is irrelevant to the vast majority of people

😯

darrell I recall the Norwegian PM saying they have to abide by the rules without any say in making them and advising the UK to vote Remain.

Anyway, good for you that you are out of this cluster****.

THM - Not beating myself up, but I am curious about this.

Up front point to note - it may just be poor reporting.

However the way these things change is by subtle changes of language - "we will try to get" becomes "we will get" or "there will be". The option of no deal gets left out.

And that appears to be what has been reported. As to what actually happened...

Big changes never look big at the time. They are a slow drift in a direction. A small change here a clarification there.

Is this the start of the climb down, compromise and fudge you've been predicting I wonder?

Rich countries just want a trading relationship with no ecj and no budget contribution. As above Normway and Switzerland have made it clear they'll never join

That doesn't follow in so many senses. Sentence one is untrue and sentence two doesn't support sentence one either:anyway

Yes IGM, it's a negotiation. Excuse me if I have mentioned this before. 😉

(& Norway's sovereign wealth fund is how much per head ....? that's gotta help!)