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[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40703369 ]the omnishambles rumbles on[/url]
THM regularly cites Portugal as an example of a country that has suffered from the Euro. As we don't have a point of comparison I question that conclusion, however: Portugal has been treated very badly by the ECB, IMF and Germany through the refusal of Eurobonds. I think they'd have had even less help and even higher interest rates with a national currency but the point is mute.
Despite that Portugal has stabilsed debt and is growing. The last things they want are Britian running away from its share of EU debt and Britain as a low-cost tax haven a few kms from mainland Europe sucking money out of the country. All they really want are tourists and customers for their fine wines, foods. So they'll be more than happy to offer freedom of movement but beyond that you can expect resistance.
I see we are all still making it up to suit. What I'd like to know is are we doomed so should cancel my Christmas party or are we on the road to nirvana?
Klunk, the BBC article only tells half the vets in abattoirs story. Qualifications aren't fully harmonised across the EU. It's much harder to become a vet in the UK or a ski instructor in France than a Vet in eastern Europe or a ski instructor in the UK.
British abattoirs employ euro-vets with much shorter training periods behind them than the five-six years required in the UK and accept correspondingly lower wages.
So the BBC article completely misses the point that the abattoirs are benefitting from EU social dumping and a lowering of standards when Brexit is all about Britian profiting from such abuses.
What I'd like to know is are we doomed so should cancel my Christmas party or are we on the road to nirvana?
Depends on how tight you are on your monthlies really
It's much harder to become a vet in the UK or a ski instructor in France than a Vet in eastern Europe or a ski instructor in the UK.
To practice in the UK you have to be a member of the RCVS so they regulate who can or can't be a vet in the UK.
What I'd like to know is are we doomed
No.
so should cancel my Christmas party
No.
or are we on the road to nirvana?
No.
I should be talking about OVs (ooficial veterinarians).
the road to nirvana
A strange Talking Heads -v- The Cult mash up
Well worth reading for those who still believe that leaving the EU is a good thing and that we will get a deal that is good for the UK
But of ocourse the writer is and expert and we know what the tories think of experts who have knowledge that disproves their predjudices
I’ve said elsewhere that, in my view, the chances of getting any deal, let alone a good deal, in the limited time available look minimal. Brexit would have been a terrible idea even if done as well as possible, but for the Government to blithely march the country towards consequences that they don’t even themselves understand is an appalling dereliction of duty.This expert believes that this needs to be stopped, and soon. Then again, we already know they don’t like experts.
Steve Bullock worked at the UK Representation to the EU from 2010-2014 where he negotiated several EU regulations for the UK in EU Council working groups.
I was just about to post that TJ.
Me too, quite scary really.
Yes, and most of this was obvious at the time of the vote to anyone who took the trouble to be reasonably well informed.
Perhaps they did - who knows? Or are you suggesting that brexies were all incapable of making informed decisions?
Great article highlighting the myopic nature of Brexsti reporting. No attempt at balance eg, could easily have read sleezy jets latest results to see how they have responded, and implications for ownership, activities and UK jobs. But alas.....doesn't make for sensational headlines.
Pound at 1.308 up again - don't city folk listen to the slashers at the IMF
jambas you missed the most important bit from Gardiner yesterday
Labour must evince* a positive vision for our country outside the EU
* is he related to Jacob?
thecaptain - MemberYes, and most of this was obvious at the time of the vote to anyone who took the trouble to be reasonably well informed.
Yup - more of what we predicted and got called remoaners for coming true.
Oh look - more evidence of the brexit disaster. NHS posts remaining unfilled - dovetails nicely with the 95% drop in EU professionals coming to work in the UK. Those missing EU professionals would have filled much of this gap - not that thats any reason not to train our own people.
They'll have to put wages up then.
Isn't that exactly what outers wanted?
Apparently low wages are no disincentive to work in the NHS - nor is cutting support for students according to the tories. Meanwhile apparently we have to pay huge salaries in other professions to attract talent.
Yes and it will all be paid for by a shake of the magic money tree
And again... bravo
The pound is unchanged against the Euro as I type, THM. We're looking at dollar weakness on most crosses rather than pound strength. [url= https://www.onvista.de/devisen/ ]Currencies[/url]
Don't spoil his spinning with facts edukator!
The Euro is now up on the pound:
EUR/USD +0.43%
EUR/GBP +0.05%
GBP/USD +0.37%
Indeed Ed you prove my point.
Currencies are not being driven by Brexshit despite the attempts of [s]remoaners[/s] those who cannot accept the result to twist every bit of news
Draghis comments moved the €
The BoE is having a mini fight in public - Carney v Haldane
The death of the reflation trade is killing th $
£ is at/ near a high for the year v $ - not bad for a basket case
None are driven by Brexshit - although £ move is behind the mini BoE fight
So the spinners have to spin. It's a parody of the Brexshiteers pre vote but on steroids
Looking at one day I agree with your analysis THM. However, looking at the last 18 months, all the media sources agree that Brexit caused the pound to fall substantially against against the Euro and a wider basket of currencies - and it hasn't happened yet.
It did indeed. I have stated that many times. It's one of the real effects as opposed to the made up ones
We should stick to those
Day to day currency fluctuations are hardly the point.
Agreed nor are sensational press cuttings. That's the whole point
[quote=teamhurtmore ]£ is at/ near a high for the year v $ - not bad for a basket case
$ is weak, £ took the Brexit hit before the start of this year. Even basket cases sometimes become slightly less of a basket case. But then you know that.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]Perhaps they did - who knows? Or are you suggesting that brexies were all incapable of making informed decisions?
Of course not. Though it seems likely that the majority of them were uninformed (or deliberately misinformed, that was after all the methodology of the Leave campaign). I suspect Brexiteers who made an informed decision have rather different motives to most people.
The only brexies I know are not incapable of making informed decisions, but they did not bother to inform themselves as they honestly did not care about the negative consequences. Being reasonably well-off OAPs they have nothing much to worry about on that front (their local NHS isn't even much dependent on immigrant labour from what I've seen).
Where do we reckon BMW will.choose to build their electric mini now that we have ruled ourselves out with Brexshit - Portugal, Brazil, South Africa, Cumbernauld?
Where do we reckon BMW will.choose to build their electric mini now that we have ruled ourselves out with Brexshit - Portugal, Brazil, South Africa, Cumbernauld?
Depends on what Brexit means, power train is German and assembled in Cowley until the current model is EoL. means more of the car is now German than before.
Gives BMW 4-5 years until they have to make a decision. Making the powertrain in Germany and keeping all the R&D there makes sense. using the Cowley line makes sense.
Cowley??? Oxfordshire???? You're pulling my leg.....
C'mon why would they do that? Be real....
Jamba - I noted that 80% of Labour members wish to remain in the EU in some form (single market, customs union etc) and you responded thusly...
jambalaya - Member
@igm Labour membership is just a fraction of their voters though. Ghe manifesto was pretty clear and in the past few days Corbyn and Gardiner have cleared things up further
Which is fair enough.
Turns out 66% of Labour voters currently want to remain entirely in the EU.
The will of the people is to remain (currently, one can treat 23/06/16 as history now) and political vengeance will be visted on those who ignore the will of the people. 😉
Gardiner and Corbyn must be shaking in their boots then? How can they be so out of touch?
Both leaderships seem out of touch with their party / support on Brexit to me.
But then I would say that.
Anyway, enough of this uncertainty, let's get on with the will of the people and #ExitBrexit
Here's a smiley for the Brexies 😉
FT rightly castegates the Labour position this morning and rips Corbyn's positioning apart - ignorance or dogma is their assertion.
His interview with Marr - disastrous...as Icelanders were tweeting..."this is news to us Mr. Corbyn"
His language this week - "...central European migrants..."
He and McDonnell are beginning to believe their own hype. As with many, hubris may well be their downfall. There is a tide among younger Corbynites that's ever so slowly changing.
Gardiner and Corbyn must be shaking in their boots then? How can they be so out of touch?
They same way as all the others in their position throughout history.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe ]Barry Gardiners[/url] article in the Guardian yesterday made for truly depressing reading.
You expect this kind of 'Will of the People/Brexit means Brexit' lunacy from the hard right loony tunes on the Tory back (and indeed front) benches. It seems the labour party is just as misguided and wedded to the same suicidally stupid ideas.
The overwhelming majority of labour voters were remainers. Seems Jezza is marching off in his own direction again, irrespective of anyone else's views
The massive problem with this 'will of the people' thing is that it no longer appears to be the will of the people.
I cannot see how not having another referendum is justifiable.
Just agree to let Brexit slide. No need for daft referendums/a (delete according to pluralisation preference)
@igm 60% of Labour voters are against Brexit then it must not be the most important issue for them as they voted for a pro-Brexit Party / Manifesto OR they accept the result and just want the government to get on with it (second is most likely but first is relevant too). IMO. Labour made the GE about Austerity hence their strong result. IMO
@tmh so there we have it electric mini in Cowley, no favours asked or given. Remainers here though still see the negative or try and create one. Project Doom and Gloom.
@captain all the Brexies I know myself inculuded think the UK will flourish outside the EU. We think there may be a short term cost in terms of less growth but thats bearable. None of us believed the Armageddon scare stories of the Remain campaign/IMF/OECD etc. If we thought the cost of Brexit would be catastrophic we would have voted Remain.
no favours asked or given
.. that you know about ...
Remainers here though still see the negative or try and create one. Project Doom and Gloom.
One swallow does not make a summer, you know that don't you?
Jamba - you'll be telling me next you believe Monday's press release about electricity savings.
(PS Brexit will put electricity prices up for two specific reasons. Monday's announcement is about trying to contain those prices rises a little)
@molgrips Nissan Quashquai too. Moving car production is very expensive, imo Mini decision was a foregone conclusion. Its right to say what happens in 5 and 10 years is more relevant. I am happy to buy a Skoda today and imo much more car production will go to much cheaper Eastern Europe plus we will have tariff free cars from Japan and US post new trade deals.
@igm I think we'll see the removal of VAT on utility bills post Brexit (impossible whilst in the EU and in fact EU want us to put VAT up to full rate). Plus I think we'll get any new tariff revenue spent on NHS. Both politically asture / populist measures. Currently the WTO tariffs collected on imports into the UK the EU takes 75% so we'll be geting that back too (not sure whether those revenues have been included in any calculations to date)
I think we'll see the removal of VAT on utility bills post Brexit
Plus I think we'll get any new tariff revenue spent on NHS. Both politically asture / populist measures.
Currently the WTO tariffs collected on imports into the UK the EU takes 75% so we'll be geting that back too (not sure whether those revenues have been included in any calculations to date)
Take some money away, increase taxes elsewhere, promise more spending then try and grab something that is most likely counted.
Love those maths
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we will have tariff free cars from Japan and US post new trade deals.
We will? Where'd you read that?
It's a prediction @molgrips. We allow £40bn worth of EU vehicles in tariff free and we PAY for the privilige and accepted freedom of movement to boot. We'll be able to have tariff free American and Japanese cars for free without granting their populations the right to live here. Both countries have superior hybrid / electrical tech too.
There will be a tariff free deal on cars wirh the EU as its a no brainer for them to agree it. We assemble/ export £10bn and import £40bn. The EU will be well aware we are speaking with the Americans amd Japanese about tariff free cars. I'm good wirh a Toyota/Honda/Lexus instead of an Audi/VW
And you think the EU will sign a free trade deal with the UK if Britian is full of tarif free cars from Japan and the US, Jambalaya. No chance. Britian will have to make a choice and logically that will be infavor of its biggest trading partner, the EU.
We'll be able to have tariff free American and Japanese cars for free without granting their populations the right to live here
You seem very confident you know what's going to happen... You make it all seem so simple. Tbh I'm a lot more sceptical.
Surely for tariff free Japanese cars they'd need to be made in Japan?
Aren't many / most made somewhere in the EU (including the UK)?
Same with Ford.
So maybe Tesla tariff free?
I am happy to buy a Skoda today and imo much more car production will go to much cheaper Eastern Europe
First you are happy to increase the costs of manufacturing in the UK? and hence what do you think is an acceptable unemployment rate? Transfering production and the supply chain out of the UK and into the EU is what you are predicting. Obviously those unemployed will be unable to relocate to where the work is due to the closed borders.
60% of Labour voters are against Brexit then it must not be the most important issue for them as they voted for a pro-Brexit Party / Manifesto OR they accept the result and just want the government to get on with it (second is most likely but first is relevant too). IMO. Labour made the GE about Austerity hence their strong result. IMO
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. again. no landslide for the tories. but you know that. 😉
The Labour Party was deliberately vague during the election campaign about Brexit. But its general tone regarding Single Market access, the Customs Union etc, gave the impression amongst a lot of people (myself included) that the attitude was much softer/less confontational/flag-waving than the Tories
This week's statements show that Jezzas political instincts remain as way-off-the-mark as they ever were, and he seems to have once again mis-judged the mood of his supporters who are predominantly young, educated, metropolitan and thus pro EU. Gardiners article for the Guardian could easily have been penned by Iain Duncan Smith
As are most Labour MP's. So the uneasy truce of the last couple of months will soon be shattered as the party goes to war with itself again. [url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/labour-mp-says-shadow-minister-is-fundamentally-wrong-on-brexit ]Its started already.[/url] This time specifically over Brexit. While on the benches opposite, hostilities become more public and very nasty
Something for us all to look forward too, eh?
What a ****ing omnishambles!!
First you are happy to increase the costs of manufacturing in the UK?
It's not a thing unique to the UK worldwide costs are increasing.
This week's statements show that Jezzas political instincts remain as way-off-the-mark as they ever were, and he seems to have once again mis-judged the mood of his supporters who are predominantly young, educated, metropolitan and thus pro EU. Gardiners article for the Guardian could easily have been penned by Iain Duncan Smith
I think this is pretty much what Jambalaya said a few weeks back.
You were wanted Binns - many times on here
His "conviction" has always been anti Europe
Still at least he wasn't promising to write off student loans
If ever the UK needed a new party, it's now. Maybe two.
teamhurtmore - MemberYou were wanted Binns - many times on here
That's a lovely thought hurty, but disappointingly, probably a typo 😉
I feel conned, as the ambiguity on policy was obviously deliberate, in order to court remainers. So this week's statements make their electoral strategy look like what it is/was. An incredibly cynical piece of electioneering, and basically a betrayal
Assuming jambalaya hasn't been back to clarify his magic money tree from earlier...
Still at least he wasn't promising to write off student loans
Did the mail tell you he was? Not many agree with that "interpretation"
Time to let brexit meet the sword
Bloody apple autocorrect!
The Marr interview exposed him - the emperor (sic) has no clothes on
Got an exact quote where he said he would write off all loans?
No - hence my comment. He's not that silly. He let the other cuckoos brief people incorrectly instead - dirty world politics
I feel conned, as the ambiguity on policy was obviously deliberate, in order to court remainers. So this week's statements make their electoral strategy look like what it is/was. An incredibly cynical piece of electioneering, and basically a betrayal
I don't think you should feel conned binners. Corbyn & McDonnell might have tried to be ambiguous but surely you saw through all that shite? The vote for Labour was a "stop May & her mandate" vote. now onto convincing Brexiteers they did the wrong thing. That's going to be tough but there are ways.
Probably more wishful thinking than anything on my behalf Bravissimo.
Its going to be interesting to see what happens as the shitstorm that is Brexit blows through the economy and reality takes hold, as both parties are as split as each other, and both already just about clinging on from declaring open warfare on the other faction
It's going to be ****ing chaos as this all unravels
It's going to be ****ing chaos as this all unravels
Shock doctrine eh? I bet a few shitehawks are rubbing their hands.
Interesting hypothesis DD. I would counter by suggesting that Labour did well by shifting the debate away (almost totally) from Brexshit to focus on their allegedly safer ground : wages; NHS; orsterity; heducation; falling inequality etc
Of course most of that was BS too but that's another story
The overwhelming majority of labour voters were remainers. Seems Jezza is marching off in his own direction again, irrespective of anyone else's views
Binnerrs without this position / manifesto Labour would have been crushed at the GE. See what @tmh says above - spot on about moving the GE away from Brexit
I think you three are in agreement.
Politically expedient to kick Brexit into the long grass until after the election and deal with it then.
Now that the GE's over, we can address Brexit properly and kick it into the long grass for good given that's what the majority want.
And more MPs all the time talking about ways of doing what the public want and exiting Brexit without upsetting the media powerbrokers.
PS I am a little disappointed in the pro-Brexit line the BBC has adopted - a more neutral line might be expected of Auntie. Having to rely on the FT, Times, Guardian, Independent, etc for that. Even the Telegraph occasionally slips and forgets the party line on how good Brexit is. I guess the BBC is feeling the political influence the Brexy members of the government are trying to exert.
Oh God! What have I become?
😥
I dunno thm. There were so many micro shifts going on in that election that trying to piece it all together into a macro view is hard work.
Now that the GE's over, we can address Brexit properly and kick it into the long grass for good given that's what the majority want.
How do you know the majority of voters dont want brexit?
I dunno thm. There were so many micro shifts going on in that election that trying to piece it all together into a macro view is hard work.
Binners - The next lines are
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
Apt?
Julian - steady trend in the polls. 51:44 remain last time I checked. The Brexies must be dying out.
It's pretty obvious that labour were trying to be all things to all people much as the leave campaign had been. They can pretty much get away with it indefinitely so long as they don't accidentally end up in power. At which point brexit will blow them apart just as it's blowing apart the tories (Gove v Fox being today's minor skirmish).
I am a little disappointed in the pro-Brexit line the BBC has adopted
If there are no positives to Brexit, how can it avoid this?
They could be honest about the lack of positives.