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Going well 12 hours in
You've started implementation of your plan already?
When the papers come to ask us about the man who saved the UK, what do you want us to say?
"I'm still waiting to hear what changed his mind tho, it must be pretty amazing"
LOL for many it's a finely balanced decision. Like yourself. Previously pro EU, post referendum you're investigating leaving the EU and going to Canada.
And the rabid insults, put downs and downright disgusting behaviour of remainers to people who voted out made me damn sure changing my mind is a good thing. To be honest some of you guys should be ashamed of yourselves, accusing leave voters of things you are way more guilty of since the result went against you.
"50b for no change? Give them sweet FA, [b]or tax Remainers at 99.9%[/b]. Wouldn't be so keen to make noise when they have to stump up. Although they could always sell their second properties and put the kids in a cheaper private school. That digs you in the ribs eh [b]remain trash[/b]?"
Random comment, very near top, grabbed from http://www.****/news/article-4367250/EU-leaders-REJECT-Theresa-s-demand-parallel-talks.html#comments
(Emphasis is mine).
"I knew wed have to leave the european medicines agency, ERASMUS, HORIZON 2020 etc"
Which is odd 'cos I found out post refferndum you don't need to be in the EU to be in ERASMUS or Horizon 2020.
Joe Kaeser, Siemens chief executive
also said that he thinks the free movement of labour is the most importtant thing that should be included in any brexit deal
and regarding wwhat the future deal will look like
"But it would be fair to assume it cannot be as good as it would have been"
http://news.sky.com/story/siemens-boss-my-confidence-in-britains-future-after-brexit-10818704
I'm ashamed to say I didn't know services were tariff free before the Referendum. (I knew services aren't goods - I just assumed there would be an equivalent.)
Have you also worked out what the barriers/restrictions/difficulties when trading in services actually are then? And how they might change on leaving the EU, and also when we start to diverge after leaving?
Which is odd 'cos I found out post refferndum you don't need to be in the EU to be in ERASMUS or Horizon 2020.
and yet
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/brexit-treasury-pledges-to-underwrite-horizon-2020-projects/
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/12/uk-scientists-dropped-from-eu-projects-because-of-post-brexit-funding-fears
northwind also gave a comprehensive somethingion of what happened to switzerland re ERASMUS as its also dependent on accepting free movement of people, which Maybot has ruled out
"Have you also worked out what he barriers to trade in services actually are then?"
Nope, beyond the financial services passport, I haven't got a scoobie.
@ mattjg, perhaps he was hoping for a slightly better discussion than the comments section of the daily mail 😀 He's probs new round here.
No Kimbers you're wrong. There are non EU countries in both.
There are non-EU countries involved on all the European institutions, that doesn't mean that we get to stay in any of them as we leave the EU.
theocb - Member
@ mattjg, perhaps he was hoping for a slightly better discussion than the comments section of the daily mail He's probs new round here.
Theocb - Matt's just pointing out what folk who stand up for their country have to put up with from Brexies.
Seems not unreasonable.
I was just pointing out that there is no need for peeps on here to stoop to the level of the daily mail comments section. Doesn't seem unreasonable 😉 Back to your secret master plan, the clock is ticking.
I was offering balance to newrobdob's experience of rude remainers. It didn't take me long.
For a fuller dose try Get Britain Out.
Have you also worked out what the barriers/restrictions/difficulties when trading in services actually are then? And how they might change on leaving the EU, and also when we start to diverge after leaving?
I believe I have already described what a ballache it was for me to do four weeks work in Switzerland, even though it was a temporary assignment for the same employer. And that it delayed my start by three weeks which caused no end of trouble.
Compare that to working in Finland or Germany when all I had to do was book a plane ticket. And that was an EEA country.
GrahamS - MemberGive over sbob.
Newsflash: the pertinent part of that post was not about you.
Chill Winston. 🙂
outofbreath - Member
No Kimbers you're wrong. There are non EU countries in both.
yes and we have an excellent example of what happened to a non EU country when they rejected FOM and ERASMUS booted them out and they were barred from full H 2020 membership until they commit to FOM ,
which Maybot has ruled out........
we can be associated to H2020, if we continue to pay in and be part of collaborations but will lose influence in something we once dominated, its a brilliant example of brexit allover - #fakecontrol
"No Kimbers you're wrong. There are non EU countries in both."
"yes"
.
kimbers - Memberdidnt know wed have to leave euratom
I'm pretty sure we don't have to leave Euratom, or at least we could be an associate state or have a cooperation agreement- the government's just chosen to because it's got Eu in the name. Or maybe Hinkley just doesn't look expensive enough and they decided to add some extra costs.
The problem with euratom and so many other EU collaborative bodies is that the ECJ is the final arbiter for any disputes
and obviously we cant have unelected foreign judges dictating to us superior Brits, thats the whole point of Brexshit
outofbreath - Member
"No Kimbers you're wrong. There are non EU countries in both.""yes"
.
siiiiggghh
but we will still be leaving them because Maybot has ruled out FOM........
"I'm pretty sure we don't have to leave Euratom"
Given it predates the EU and already has an associate member I'd be amazed if we had to.
It's possible there was no way to move to associate membership without leaving, which is why I'm only pretty sure not 100% sure- it might be continuous membership wasn't possible. But that's not why we're leaving, we're leaving to Take Back Control
Article in The Times today about the massive hole in the defence budget. Whole mix of reasons but a lot of it is connected to the weak pound against the dollar since the Americans are selling us the F-35s and a whole load of other kit. The other main point in the article is that ministers are so tied up with Brexit that they've not got time to look at domestic matters.
Trident is projected to go way over the supposed maximum of £41 billion.
Royal Marines facing significant cuts.
At this rate we'll end up with no NHS, no defence force, no caps on immigration but we will have taken back control - is that right?
outofbreath - Member
"I'm pretty sure we don't have to leave Euratom"Given it predates the EU and already has an associate member I'd be amazed if we had to.
it seems like a really stupid idea, so is entirely in keeping withe the ethos of Brexshit
Id really hope we are still involved in ITER in someway, presumably it will hurt JET a lot too
either way we are leaving it as it was stated in the governments brexit white paper
http://bruegel.org/2017/02/brexit-goes-nuclear-the-consequences-of-leaving-euratom/
Im assuming because we cant be subjugated by the evil ECJ!
its also going to really affect our involvement in teh European Space programmes
https://phys.org/news/2016-09-brexit-uk-role-europe-space.html
again entirely in keeping with the anti -intellectualism of Brexshit
remember people are sick of experts, its a step backwards in so many ways
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Still Rees-Mogg can launch injto a righteous speech about the supremacy of british democracy or some such nonsesne
Todays good news in the FT, customs and excise, who are incidentally having their budget cut, are in serious risk of not being able to cope with the foreseen increase in workload.
Shock Horror!!!!
"Article in The Times today about the massive hole in the defence budget. Whole mix of reasons but a lot of it is connected to the weak pound against the dollar since the Americans are selling us the F-35s and a whole load of other kit. The other main point in the article is that ministers are so tied up with Brexit that they've not got time to look at domestic matters.
Trident is projected to go way over the supposed maximum of £41 billion."
Yeah, weak pound seems really good until you want to buy massively expensive stuff you can't source locally.
Is this really a surprise to anyone? And will anyone be surprised when Argentina kicks off over WTO membership?
@mrmo no surpirse, Spain is sh.tting itself over the potential (likely?) loss of fishing rights. Spain has little leverage over UK as ifbit tried to make life difficult for UK residents Portugal will just make life even easier, tjey already have a big tax break on pensions if you retire there
Spain has little leverage over UK …
Read what you are replying to Jamba.
what loss of fishing rights? most of UK water is within the 200mile offshore zone of the EU,ie it will have to be negotitaited, and most species are drifting north anyway. Look at the mackerel catch off Iceland and compare.
The UK fleet is going to get shafted again that is a certainty, all because Farage couldn't be arsed with the day job..
kimbers, love the Ladybird cover.
Spain has little leverage over UK
Oh yes it does...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/31/future-of-gibraltar-at-stake-in-brexit-negotiations
I am not a rude, unrepentant remainer, I am just rude and unrepentant.
Thing is as an American once said to me "looks like a snake, sounds like a snake, moves like a snake- then it's probably a snake" so using that as a metric many Brexiteers are at least xenophobiac and probably racist.
Oh and while I am being rude, we do a lot of work with Hotel chains and in conversation the CEO of a quite well know brand said " how the * does Theresa May think I can run this business with the lazy ** this country breeds" this may be a racist statement who knows the lines are blurred....
Oh well....I guess sinking Spanish ships for the lolz like old times would make for pretty good tv.
I'm pretty resigned to this now, we may as well just piss the EU off as much as possible and exert our efforts on destablising the continent with Trump.
No that's xenophobic oldmanmtb
Secret master planning going well theocb - I've got a contract with some Poles to build a secret underground lair, so it will be well built and probably in time.*
*not everything you read on this thread should be taken seriously
*[s]not everything[/s] nothing you read on this thread should be taken seriously
FTFY 😉
Is there going to be a tunnel under the North Sea to Denmark?
Sssh
It's only for loyal members of the British resistance - we don't want the Brexies to know.
The whole Gib/Falklands thing cracks me up..
What's left of the "British Empire" is going to get broken up & there'll be FA the Brexit Brigade will be able to do about it.
So much for Rule Britannia.
So much for making Britain great again.
You've been well & truly stitched up!
tbh gibraltar is a strategic[military] interest so wont be given up
The falklands are too political to be given up but they are clearly "stolen lands" that hark back to our empire days
We have no moral claim to the territories but that is irrelevant here we wont be giving them up whatever anyones personal view is on the issue
Quite savvy of the EU to unite and support a member on this issue though and show solidarity now they can take sides.
You mean the unihabited islands that a bunch of colonisers are claiming we stole?
If anything, we stole Gubraltar.
We stole half the planet and paid for the munitions we needed to do it by drug running and slave trading.
are you starting to have a plan for us now then 😉
that plan only works once.
sbob - Member
tjagain - Membersbob - but we need the EU much much more than they need us!
You're still making the same mistake of treating the EU as a single entity, which it is not.
I'm not sure how to make my point any clearer, other than reminding you that we are the EU
Woosh - the point you don't want to recognise is that for trade purposes the EU is a single entity. leavers keepo saying " the Germans need to sell their cars to us, they will want to make a deal.
This is bollox - no single country in the EU can make trade deals. Its on an EU wide basis
Hence for trade purposes its both sensible and right to refer to the EU as a single entity
No good for me. With my addictive personality I need to stay well clear of certain things.
Gibraltar.
Back to now that's what I call Brexit with Simon & Garfunkel I think "it's is a rock, we are an island..."
Gibraltar is easy, they can go independent
The real weakness with the "they need to sell us BMWs" argument is that you can't eat them. We import most of our food from the EU...full tummies are about to get a whole lot dearer!
If Gibraltar can go imdependent, can it then be in the EU? Asking for friends up North.
German car manufacturers are the red herring that keeps giving.
The Leave politicians that keep leaning on that stick don't really believe they are key to a deal.
Leave fanatics keep referring to it without understanding that it's just another bluff by people who want to pretend things are simpler than they really are.
we've always imported most of our food though
we've always imported most of our food though
That makes now the perfect time to antagonise our trading partners.
[quote=chickenman said]The real weakness with the "they need to sell us BMWs" argument is that you can't eat them. We import most of our food from the EU...full tummies are about to get a whole lot dearer!
Not sure I follow. We import BMWs and we import food. But food will cost us more ? Will BMWs also cost more ?
yes but we can do without BMWs.
[quote=mattjg said]yes but we can do without BMWs.
You're clearly not middle management.
wont somebody think of the Audis?
It's also possible food import volumes will rise if the farmers can't get affordable labour and have to switch to intensive automatable crops like wheat.
We currently import ~40% of the food we consume, although this is rising year on year. Much of this is fresh produce, particularly during winter. We could be self sufficient for cereals/potato if required but not much beyond Cabbage after that. But only if we stop building houses on our agricultural land.
It's funny the Germans loaned Greece the money they needed to practically bankrupt themselves in order to keep buying imported goods, remind me again who needs who?
Despite the posturing from various Euro states that have had their noses put out of joint by the Brexit referendum they still need a strong economy like ours to buy their stuff, tin pot economies like Greece can't do it anymore and as is constantly pointed out but seemingly ignored the UK is a net contributor....deep down other Euro nations must be crapping themselves about where the extra money is going to come from once the UK leaves....Portugal?, Spain with its 25% youth unemployment?.....near bankrupt Greece, maybe that bastion of honest and non corrupt Italy will cough up the missing billions!? Lol.
This is why the EU is pushing for a 'divorce settlement'....they want the UK's money to keep coming in even though we're leaving. If anyone needed an example of the greedy, self serving and corrupt organisation that the EU has become its that farcical idea of seemingly compensating the remaining EU countries for daring to leave.....maybe if their economies performed better they wouldn't be making such stupid demands.
If I was May I'd also get together with Trump and threaten to withdraw UK and US troops from Germany and leave that country open to Putins expansion plans....let's see how much grand standing from Merkel then.
Whether the EU likes it or not the UK army trounces any of the pissy little individual EU nation armies, they need our firepower more than we need Italy's joke of an army for example.
While I'm in belligerent mood so what if Brexit slows rampant consumerism and materialism, not a bad thing in my book....let's also threaten WTO tariffs should the EU show it's true petty colours and then the UK can screw French farming in the process, bedlam on the continent and a resurgence in UK farming, they are many positives to this.
If we were a drain in the EU they'd have probably cut us loose already but they know the billions we pump into the corrupt project, the security we provide at the Russian border and how our imports support continental farmers....stuff them, threaten to take it all back, no ridiculous 'divorce' settlement (i mean really that tells you everything you need to know about the circus that is Brussels) and lets see resurgent British agriculture, trade deals with emerging Asian, Brazilian and Indian economies without EU interference and just get on with things.
The doom mongers are becoming really boring, like the worst stuck record, I look forward to Brexit working, the EU realising they can't impose any fines/divorce settlements on a country that isn't part of their little club anymore and doesn't fall under their jurisdiction and the inevitable stamping of feet that will follow.
The EU is showing its true vindictive colours at the moment and I for one can't wait to leave.
I spent time in Australia a few years ago and felt I had more in common with those guys and girls then the French, Germans and Spanish etc over the channel.
What you also have to consider with farming are a few more details,
Diesel, imported, fertiliser imported.
And the biggie.
CAP
about half of farm income is currently CAP, this is being scraped, has to be, that is the £350M going to the NHS....
Also i seem to believe that the WTO is working to scrap all subsidies and as a minor country we won't have anywhere near the clout of the US or EU.
ALOT of farmers are going to go bust. simple economics really.
It's funny the Germans loaned Greece the money they needed to practically bankrupt themselves in order to keep buying imported goods, remind me again who needs who?
Despite the posturing from various Euro states that have had their noses put out of joint by the Brexit referendum they still need a strong economy like ours to buy their stuff, tin pot economies like Greece can't do it anymore and as is constantly pointed out but seemingly ignored the UK is a net contributor....deep down other Euro nations must be crapping themselves about where the extra money is going to come from once the UK leaves....Portugal?, Spain with its 25% youth unemployment?.....near bankrupt Greece, maybe that bastion of honest and non corrupt Italy will cough up the missing billions!? Lol.
This is why the EU is pushing for a 'divorce settlement'....they want the UK's money to keep coming in even though we're leaving. If anyone needed an example of the greedy, self serving and corrupt organisation that the EU has become its that farcical idea of seemingly compensating the remaining EU countries for daring to leave.....maybe if their economies performed better they wouldn't be making such stupid demands.
If I was May I'd also get together with Trump and threaten to withdraw UK and US troops from Germany and leave that country open to Putins expansion plans....let's see how much grand standing from Merkel then.
Whether the EU likes it or not the UK army trounces any of the pissy little individual EU nation armies, they need our firepower more than we need Italy's joke of an army for example.
While I'm in belligerent mood so what if Brexit slows rampant consumerism and materialism, not a bad thing in my book....let's also threaten WTO tariffs should the EU show it's true petty colours and then the UK can screw French farming in the process, bedlam on the continent and a resurgence in UK farming, they are many positives to this.
If we were a drain in the EU they'd have probably cut us loose already but they know the billions we pump into the corrupt project, the security we provide at the Russian border and how our imports support continental farmers....stuff them, threaten to take it all back, no ridiculous 'divorce' settlement (i mean really that tells you everything you need to know about the circus that is Brussels) and lets see resurgent British agriculture, trade deals with emerging Asian, Brazilian and Indian economies without EU interference and just get on with things.
The doom mongers are becoming really boring, like the worst stuck record, I look forward to Brexit working, the EU realising they can't impose any fines/divorce settlements on a country that isn't part of their little club anymore and doesn't fall under their jurisdiction and the inevitable stamping of feet that will follow.
The EU is showing its true vindictive colours at the moment and I for one can't wait to leave.
I spent time in Australia a few years ago and felt I had more in common with those guys and girls then the French, Germans and Spanish etc over the channel.
Right............I presume this is satire?
If I was May I'd also get together with Trump and threaten to withdraw UK and US troops from Germany and leave that country open to Putins expansion plans....let's see how much grand standing from Merkel then.
You're going to get a right grilling - but here Deviant - I think you're right. The rhetoric coming out the EU hasn't been good either, Spain is an unreliable Nato ally who supports the Argies and is going to hold us to ransom over Gibraltar. France and Germany will do practically anything to try to carpet bag the financial industry...etc etc etc.
As a remainer, I think we're need to get properly ****ing nasty with the continent if we're going to make this work. I don't see what the issue was with threatening them over intelligence sharing etc, sod them - let them know that we'll give no quarter - even if that means cutting our hands off to spite our faces.
Deviant, as the EU have said, Brexit is a no win situation.
your point about spain, i could counter less than half the UK population is currently in work. So more people by a big margin are benefit recipients than net tax payers.
Not a very good situation to be in and with the current political climate going to get worse.
The EU is showing its true vindictive colours at the moment and I for one can't wait to leave.
I spent time in Australia a few years ago and felt I had more in common with those guys and girls then the French, Germans and Spanish etc over the channel.
Perhaps you did but pragmatically they're the other side of the world not a 90 minute ship ride away.
tom_w1987, where is the current french english border? Think about why the refugee camps were in sangatte and Dunkirk.
Consider what happens if french customs decide to impose controls. because they can?
It really is a no win game.
Something else to consider we lost the cod war because the US sided with Iceland. Don't look to others to dig you out of this hole.
even if that means cutting our hands off to spite our faces
So there is a plan!
ps our Army is really that strong? All we ever hear is numbers are being cut and the kit is ancient.
Popped into Sainsburys earlier, for the first time in a few weeks, some serious price hikes!
Basics chocolate 30p to 50p
1kg palm oil free peanut butter ~£5 to £6.80
Malties ~£1.40 to £1.80
Gold Blend 150g refill £4 to £4.50
I need another pay rise on top of the planned pay rise to cover this! It's no coincidence I've been using Co Op and Lidl more recently, but even their prices are going up.
Something else to consider we lost the cod war because the US sided with Iceland. Don't look to others to dig you out of this hole.
I didn't dig this hole - I voted remain.
But if my economy is going to get torched because of this, I want to see the EU's economy and security getting torched as well.
Walking away from NATO would be an entertaining start.
Right............I presume this is satire?
Even if it is, a huge section of the UK population thinks this way. Sadly.
[i]If Gibraltar can go imdependent, can it then be in the EU? Asking for friends up North.[/I]
Only if it's through a constitutional/democratic process, so they can't just UDI. The reason why Scotland is asking Westminster for the right to hold a referendum.
If either UDI'd then the EU (nor UN) wouldn't support them.
Popped into Sainsburys earlier, for the first time in a few weeks, some serious price hikes!
Too bloody right the coffee I buy has gone from £3.50 to £3.75!
But if my economy is going to get torched because of this, I want to see the EU's economy and security getting torched as well.
So your response to "us" telling the EU to get stuffed is to try and hurt them? 😐
We are torching our own economy. The EU are protecting the interests of the countries that value the EU. It ain't rocket science.
ps our Army is really that strong? All we ever hear is numbers are being cut and the kit is ancient.
And we start entering the realms of why the **** the EU was set up. To stop european countries going to war!
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Do we really want to be this ****ing stupid AGAIN!!!!!!
Gibraltar is easy, they can go independent
We made a huge mistake in not following the French example years ago by making the overseas territories like the Falklands, Acesnsion, Bermuda, BIOT etc. into integral [i]departments[/i] of the UK.
So your response to "us" telling the EU to get stuffed is to try and hurt them?
Well, it would seem that is the EU's response as well. I'm quite happy to admit that telling us that we can't be in the single market is fair play - but some of the other stuff coming out the continent raises an eyebrow.
The EU are protecting the interests of the countries that value the EU.
No, they've been far too confrontational - if they wanted to protect their interests this would be done quietly with the least amount of pain for everyone, it doesn't seem that it will - as other member countries are lining up to see how they can personally gain economically and geopolitically out of this.
On Gibraltar, we handed Hong Kong back because it suited.