Forum menu
You could go and eat squirrels in a cabin in Idaho and stockpile arms for the forthcoming apocalypse
Squirrel good
Idaho bad
Apocalypse scheduled I believe
I take your point though. The baby boomers final typically selfish gift to us all, particularly my daughters generation....
A grand act of economic suicide, to ensure they remain the one true gilded generation
Get those ladders pulled up behind you!
I just don't want to be labelled as part of this, I always thought we were better than this and I was wrong. Don't want to watch the impact on the less well off while the rabid wealthy right gloat at their achievement.
Obviously I am not a "Brit" even though I am nearly in the baby boomer generation.
Well I am out.. not prepared to support this madness. Sell house, sell business, cash in pensions and I am sure some warm tolerant country will take me in
... and flounce!
[img] 
[/img]
Seriously, I wish you well, but perhaps before selling up everything and heading off into the sunset you might want to reflect on how the UK did after it left the ERM (which was VITAL to the UK and not being a member of would drive the country off a cliff ) and when the UK didn't join the Euro (which was VITAL to the UK and not being a member of would drive the country off a cliff )
.. and the country left the Single Market (which... I can't be arsed writing the same thing a third time...
Well first enquiries have been made into getting a German passport. Looks to be about 1000 times easier for us to move back over there and me get DE citizenship than it will be for Birgit to remain here and try and get UK citizenship. Plus neither of us has any great desire to stay here under the current climate.
@Graham I think there is a degree if group-speak going with thise articles. My view is the similarities Trump/Brexit is more about anti-establishment than anti-globalisation.
@jimster as I posted earlier the Commons/Lords vote is a sham really as if deal is rejected we will default to an ultra-hard Brexit under WTO rules.
An earlier poster said the EU was mainly about "Trade and Investment" .. nothing could be further from the truth, it's a political union project, the clue is in the name as marked by the change from European Economic Community. Trade and Investment do not require a court with jurisdiction over anything other than trade and it does not require freedom of movement of people. Those are poltiical constructs.
@welsh your and DrJ's wives will be given permanent right to remain, no doubt in my mind whatsoever. Same situation as my wife and I. Now I will not deny getting a French passport is easier than her getting a UK one, AFAIK it's automatic as she is French and we where married in France. UK has more detailed rules and form filling as a responce to many "arranged marriages" and a wish to combat that.
[b]Global [/b]political union may be the only thing that can ultimately save this planet from the folly of mankind.
Just a thought
It may be that she can get a right to remain, the question is whether she wants top remain. I certainly have no desire given that I may have an alternative.
I am sure some warm tolerant country will take me in
Portugal making a big push to encourage retirees, pension income is not taxed. Can't comment on tolerance, eg does it have Spanish problem with racism against Africans ? Malaysia offering permanent residence if you buy in designated areas like Lankawi.
Welsh. Germany passing laws so that EU nationals cannot claim welfare for 5 years, introducing a Burka ban ... ? It's wrong to say the UK's push back against the EU project is unique.
AFAIK it's automatic as she is French and we where married in France
Not unless you have children together. The other main criteria is the period of permanent residence as shown by your tax returns. I have one acquaintance who has been trying to get get French nationality for his wife for years. Where you were married isn't an issue as long as your marriage certificate is recognised by the French authorities.
I don't see why anyone should consider themselves a part of it unless they voted for it, Oldmanmtb. If you have a real desire to be somewhere else go, but only leave if it's to go somewhere that inspires rather than because half the people living around you disagree with you. That'll be the case in most places you go.
one question on a thing if Scotland leaves THE UK and goes it alone as Nicola Sturgeon seems to keep popping up and making her threat , on the surface of her rhetoric she seems as batty as May do they still get all the perks like NHS funds etc? Or will they need to fund their own hospitals and stuff like that
@Graham I think there is a degree if group-speak going with thise articles. My view is the similarities Trump/Brexit is more about anti-establishment than anti-globalisation.
I'm honestly not sure who is wrong there, but I think someone is.
The [i]"Brexit is an anti-globalisation backlash"[/i] meme has been reported widely for more than seven months, and it's not just the leftie MSM press either, Breitbart have had triumphant stories about it too:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/23/brexit-signals-end-new-world-order/
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/06/24/the-end-of-globalism/
http://www.breitbart.com/news/botched-globalisation-led-to-trump-brexit-nobel-economist/
Yet May seems to me to be pushing a very [i]strong[/i] globalisation message in her speech, would you agree? She mentions the word "Global" seventeen times, like she is deliberately reassuring people/businesses/markets that globalisation continues unabated.
It's an interesting move.
If we wanted to avoid globalization, we should have stayed in the protectionist EU rather than trying our luck going it alone, in the globe.
EDIT: for anyone who was frustrated by the EU's insistence on workers' rights, and consumer standards and the like, Brexit is truly a gift from heaven.
If I go I don't have live among the s**t that will occur.
I thought May specifically saying she wanted out of the the European justice system was very telling. Wave good bye to your human and citizens rights people.
NHS is already devolved in Scotland.
Cranberry I am sure he UK will survive and prosper post brexit however all fires need fuel and that's going to be the working poor - it's the way of the world and no doubt I would likely benefit.
What I completely misread was the deep seated xenophobia that exists in the UK from both working poor and rich folk who live in communities with no immigration
Thought we were better than that and yes I understand the reality of racism in most of Europe just hoped we were more tolerant but it appears not.
Dragon that's utter crap there are heaps of UK post docs desperate for jobs.
What I completely misread was the deep seated xenophobia that exists in the UK from both working poor and rich folk who live in communities with no immigration
I watched a German TV programme today about human reactions to things foreign and people who look/sound/are different, fascinating stuff. Overcoming this instinctive stuff is what makes the difference between civilised and tribal
@welsh your and DrJ's wives will be given permanent right to remain, no doubt in my mind whatsoever.
Based on what? Nothing that's been said would give any grounds to believe that. Quite the opposite - she is "negotiation capital", nothing more. The country voted to get rid of foreigners - there aren't any votes in allowing them to stay. What is more likely is that she will be like the current 'undesirables' that receive texts and phone calls every hour telling them to leave, have driving licences revoked, leases refused - no explicit laws, just creating a miserable environment where people prefer to leave.
NHS is already devolved in Scotland.
And a model for us all
They even put a few p on tax to pay for more services recently......oh hang on
I thought May specifically saying she wanted out of the the European justice system was very telling. Wave good bye to your human and citizens rights people.
You are aware that the ECJ (which Maggie referred to in her speech) and the ECHR are entirely different things, aren't you?
Global political union may be the only thing that can ultimately save this planet from the folly of mankind.
One people, one nation, one leader...
Yup, I am aware of that, Ninfan, that's why I posted what I did. Have a look at some of the court rulings which often concern human and citizens' rights.
The more I read, the more I despair.@welsh your and DrJ's wives will be given permanent right to remain, no doubt in my mind whatsoever. Same situation as my wife and I. Now I will not deny getting a French passport is easier than her getting a UK one, AFAIK it's automatic as she is French and we where married in France. UK has more detailed rules and form filling as a responce to many "arranged marriages" and a wish to combat that.
On a different note, how many Oscars for La La Land?
What I completely misread was the deep seated xenophobia that exists in the UK from both working poor and rich folk who live in communities with no immigration
With respect, as *one of them* I am not xenophobic and have lived in a number of countries - the people that I know that voted leave were not xenophobic, but did have all sorts of concerns, including legitimate concerns about the number of people moving to the UK. As it is there are [u]far[/u] more racist countries in the EU than the UK.
Just be careful thinking that the grass is necessarily greener elsewhere. If you do move, as an expat who has seen expats succeed and fail - be moving towards something, not away from something - the latter are the ones who risk failing when they find themselves in a different country away from their support networks, realising that all countries have good and bad sides.
I'll join you in your flounce oldmanmtb!
I'm not sure I want my kids to grow up in a country of little Englanders looking for next group to scapegoat after the immigrants and EU have been given the heave ho, when they realise the world is still leaving them behind.
DIdnt you already promise to leave the UK if the Tories won the last election Kimbers?
be moving towards something, not away from something - the latter are the ones who risk failing
Ironic to post that discussing Brexit- that is all about moving away from something, with no plan or consensus on what it will actually entail
Lovely post on reddit this evening about some of the (possible) [i]real[/i] reasons behind all this.
(No-one will read this as they're too busy arguing with oor Andra'- but that's ok:)
I've been meaning to write an article about it, but I'll sum up very quickly. I need to come back to it with links...
Russia's "white borders" are constantly at risk, but the "red borders" were crossed in Ukraine. Russia cannot allow the EU to control a gov't on its border - so when the EU toppled its puppet regime and installed its own (with the later help of the US), Russia responded with invasion.
The EU slapped sanctions on Russia, the US helped. This hurt Russia's economy quite a lot.
Russia reportedly doesn't have the resources to really go to war against the EU, but a proxy war against the US is a good way to showcase its re-growing arsenal... but the best way for Russia to wage war now is in the shadows. So it began to break up the EU.
For the first time in history, Far-Right parties in the EU win seats in EU Parliamentary elections. These parties - UKIP in England, Front Nationale in France, etc - have unprecedented coffers. A French report ties this money back to two Russian central banks. The xenophobes of each major EU country see a big rise in their cash and influence.
The Migrant Crisis takes over, thanks in part to war in Syria - which of course Russia is fighting in. This exacerbates all the fears that the Right plays on.
Incidents all over the EU, but esp. in Germany, cause unrest about migrants. Most of it seems unrelated until Germany spots a lot of coordinated efforts on NYE. Germany investigates and ends up directly accusing the Kremlin of sparking this activity across the EU - it's monstrous to imagine setting impoverished immigrants to grope/rape/rob locals across Europe... but when you think of it as war, it's all perfectly 'normal'.
Brexit comes about in a shocking vote - based mostly on two tenets: 'take control of our country back from Brussels' and 'get the immigrants out'. Both point end up completely debunked withing 48 hours of the voting results. Farage and Boris Johnson both step aside in shame (although Boris gets a miraculous second chance!) after acknowledging that none of the major campaign promises are legit.
Revelations about Trump being in Putin's pocket emerge. He was anti-Russia until he hired a campaign manager who was deeply tied to the Kremlin, and now wants the US to go 180 on its Russia stance.
New PM May is strangely bullish about Brexit despite nearly all experts having negative outlooks. There remains no concrete plan, yet she remains 100% devoted and bullish - supposedly because God is telling her that she's right.
tl;dr Too costly to have a real war with the entire West, so the Kremlin is doing what it does best: a shadow war against a clueless and hapless West in order to take back its red lines and take out its two biggest enemies, the EU and NATO.
ninfan - Member
DIdnt you already promise to leave the UK if the Tories won the last election Kimbers
Nah I still had hope that the country wasn't full of miserable old biggots then 😉
welsh your and DrJ's wives will be given permanent right to remain
The [u]ONLY[/u] danger of every EU citizen in the UK not getting permanent leave to remain is that 10 of the 27 remaining countries of the EU that refused to agree to May's call last year to take away any prospect of anyone from anywhere "being sent home"*. I am proud that my country's government, from the first moment, tried to ensure that the 3.6 million EU citizens in the UK would be allowed to stay and that UK citizens in the EU would not need to be sent back home. I really struggle to understand the mindset of someone who is able to read the articles where this was made crystal clear and still try to make capital about something that is the epitome of a falst story.
* See also reason 183 for leaving the EU - getting a sensible decision from an "none of us is as stupid as all of us" committee.
As it is there are far more racist countries in the EU than the UK.
Name one, I'm failing. The UK is the only place I've suffered road rage because of my French plates (BSE period).
The ECJ has been very helpful to tax avoiders.
currency changes due to brexit has allowed me to go all XTR and carbon. thanks guys!
Name one,
Oh, that's a nice easy one and it comes with a free windmill.
A country where the Germans I know park their cars in a secure compound over New Years Eve so that they don't accidentally catch fire when the neighbours set fires in the street.
Where a blond haired friend of mine was called a ****ing nazi and told to go back to his own country - he is Swedish and a really lovely bloke.
Where people in recent times complained that biscuits were going to have to be renamed from "****'s kisses" - if they are offended they should go back home!
Where Sinter Klaas's slave is blacked up and 90% of the country don't have a problem with it.
etc, etc.
Name one, I'm failing. The UK is the only place I've suffered road rage because of my French plates (BSE period).
All 27 are worse than the UK, obviously everyone here hates the French, but they don't count as they are the same race as us
Cranberry does all that trump the murder of Jo Cox?
Well Pim Fortuyn was murdered there
The ONLY danger of every EU citizen in the UK not getting permanent leave to remain is that 10 of the 27 remaining countries of the EU that refused to agree to May's call last year to take away any prospect of anyone from anywhere "being sent home
BS. She could unilaterally give that permission as a humanitarian act if she didn't want to use immigrants as human shields.
Can you not see the fatal flaws in your arguments, Cranberry? Britain can only decide what Britain does. May's whole speech today was a series of laughs from the perspective of anyone in the other 27 countries.
A series of demands and statements over which she has no control, The veiled threats in today's speech smack of blackmail. Reprisals will do you no good she says, without stopping for an instant to consider that reprisals will do a lot of good to some EU countries.
As Danny said on Europe 1 a few days back:
Ils veulent le beurre, l'argent du beurre et le baiser de la crémière.
He substituted le baiser for le sourire which made us smile.
She's living in a fantasy world. She even claimed that Britain was doing better now than before, I don't know what she's measuring GDP in but it certainly isn't a currency that's any stronger than the Bolivar (sp?)
Cranberry does that trunk the murder of Jo Cox?
yes, because the whole of the UK were supporting that act...
jeez, what a stupid comment...
Kimbers - I didn't realise that we were playing Corpse Top Trumps.
But if we are then a man with a long, documented history of mental illness who had been IIRC kicked out of a right-wing group for being weird (which can't be that easy ) doesn't seem to me to be the right card to play.
On the other hand trying to claim that Jo Cox wasn't murdered by a right-wing racist fueled by Brexit hate isn't any nearer the truth.
Was farage kicked out of the Tories? I thought he just quit.
E
Jo Cox was murdered at the height of the bitterest political campaign I can remember. An amoral and xenophobic right wing press, Senior politicians daily invoking fear immigrants, of Turkish criminals, posters of refugees queing at the EU border, conflating terrorism with migration, etc etc
You can try and pretend she was murdered in a vacuum by a lone nutter....
The Uni's model to is very similar to the Premier League, why develop your own talent when you can buy experienced, cheaper talent from elsewhere
No, we develop home grown talent and employ the best we can regardless of origin. But there are lots of jobs due to our internationally recognized excellence and not enough quality workers. If someone isn't good enough no amount of training will change that. Most graduates aren't good enough to be PhD students. Most PhD students aren't good enough to be postdoc. Most postdoc aren't good enough to be group leaders and so on. It is a brutal career path with high attrition rates purely because of the intellectual and working demands.
We also can't pay less than agreed with the unions or more than the government are prepared to pay (mainly applies to rcuk but other funders are similar). I run my lab and am on ~15k PA less than my contemporary graduates. Guess what? Researchers don't do their very hard and demanding jobs primarily for the money.
we can argue all we want , but inflation is on the rise and prices are going up . When the c/card are maxed up and there is less money available at the end of the month , we will see if Brexit is good or bad .
Didn't Farage claim Brexit was won without a shot being fired shortly after a Brexy shot Jo Cox?
#FellowTravellers
It's too simplistic to have league tables for racism. What's concerning is both the direction of travel, and the speed of it in the U.K.
Theresa May can spout all the 'Great Global Trading Nation' bollocks she likes. At the end of the day it's still all just backward-looking, xenophobic, little Englander flag-waving, that shamelessly panders to racists
bitterest political campaign I can remember
Miners' strike Scargil/Thatcher ? The Brexit campaign was perhaps the most "untruthful and misleading" political campaign I've seen but far from the bitterest. Only now is the bitterness coming out, and it'll get a lot more bitter if May continues with her efforts. For the first time today I lost my objectivity and indifference, she can FRO with her talk of reprisals when she's just outlined her wish to buy from everywhere except Europe and sell to Europe tarif free.
Well if I was a young lad I'd be seriously looking at flouncing off out of it. Oh hang on I'm apparently a Baby Boomer so I'm supposed to be happy with this shit storm.
Calm down folks at least no one wants these folk running more of the economy.
Lessons learned
these folk
Who?
[url= https://uk.news.yahoo.com/meghan-markle-speaks-out-against-the-racism-shes-faced-144521499.html ]Welcome to this cesspit of a multicultural society where our intellect and compassion shine through in equal amounts. What horrible people there are out there who have now been given the OK to spout their crap.[/url]
Miners' strike Scargil/Thatcher ? The Brexit campaign was perhaps the most "untruthful and misleading" political campaign I've seen but far from the bitterest.
i was just a wee nipper then
Well May has proved herself to be both stupid and incompetent. Does she really think the UK will win win a trade war with the EU? the woman is deluded.
the idiocy increases day by day. I really long for scottish independence now so I no longer have to share a country with these far right racists and deluded bigots.
codybrennan, that was basically my thinking about the whole thing.
BS. She could unilaterally give that permission as a humanitarian act if she didn't want to use immigrants as human shields.
She has made it very obvious, numerous times, what she wants to do, but she also has a duty to care for UK citizens abroad. Do you really think that she should potentially hang them out to dry by making a unilateral move ?
Miners' strike Scargil/Thatcher ?
I was a nipper as well but always remember the riot police smashing all the windows out on a coach on the telly.
Not nice.
She has made it very obvious, numerous times, what she wants to do, but she also has a duty to care for UK citizens abroad. Do you really think that she should potentially hang them out to dry by making a unilateral move ?
Why not? If the EU don't return the favour then it can easily be reversed. In the meantime the uk earns some badly needed respect from the rest of the EU. The only reason for not doing it is the daily mail and ukip inspired hysteria of hard-line brexopaths.
A series of demands and statements over which she has no control,
It has obviously been poorly reported in the French press, everything she has committed to is in her control. Yes she would like to secure an ongoing partnership with our European friends because that is in all our interests, the grown ups seem to recognise this, and only Verhofstadt, who is really the pro Euro Farage, is being silly. If no agreement, c'est la vie, and we will look after our own interests. Today, she has prepared the country for the big break in a reasoned low key way. She has also shown that concerns that she may not be up to the job are ill founded - I think the comparisons with Gordon Brown will stop now.
Anyway how does being a tax haven work out for the normal man in the street on P.A.Y.E ?
Gordon Brown, though poor, was better at being PM than May - on present showing at least. She really has been poor.
And on demands and statements, saying there will be a transitional period is not in her gift. It is not even in her gift to have a negotiation on one. That is in the EU's gift. So there's one to start you off.
She is making a unilateral move FFS! What's Brexit if it's not a unilateral move? As for being hung out to dry, she's the one hanging people out. It's not the 27's governments who are tearing up working agreements, it's Britain's government.
Edit: I was watching the speech from Davos live, Mefty, and there was no problem with comprehension or translation believe me.
Oh, that's a nice easy one and it comes with a free windmill.A country where the Germans I know park their cars in a secure compound over New Years Eve so that they don't accidentally catch fire when the neighbours set fires in the street.
Where a blond haired friend of mine was called a ****ing nazi and told to go back to his own country - he is Swedish and a really lovely bloke.
Where people in recent times complained that biscuits were going to have to be renamed from "****'s kisses" - if they are offended they should go back home!
Where Sinter Klaas's slave is blacked up and 90% of the country don't have a problem with it.
etc, etc.
Let's put it this way, I have never once been asked by a Brit whether my Asian wife was a mail order bride - I have by a Spaniard. I have never heard of British Muslims fleeing Britain to France because...racism. I have met French Algerians who have fled to Britain though. As of yet, the British don't have a far right party in power - Hungary, Poland, Greece, France and Spain are all pretty close though.
Leopards don't change their spots, continental Europeans have consistently voted or helped into power, racist, populist or violent nutjobs - sometimes all three! Let's see, Napoleon, Stalin, Hitler, Musollini, Franco, Tito, Carmona, Salazar....list goes on.
Well I'm now thoroughly depressed...
I have the possible option to join one of my best friends in Abu Dhabi. I'm very tempted... if I lose my job in the UK because of a downturn then that'll be my main hunting ground for a new job.
I'm still holding out that May's real game is to let us suffer an economic downturn for a few years and allow us to end up with a deal which is so lousy and generally leaves us all worse off (especially pensioners and lower paid who voted out) that public opinion turns and demands another vote on the actual deal and leave loses badly... this is still possible - in fact pushing for a hard exit makes it more likely not less and it's essential for this plan to work for us all to believe that she genuinely wants us to leave... which we currently do.
In the meantime, the people who'll keep things moving in the UK will be the hard-working, industrious and entrepreneurial ie. the remain constituency. Idiots like my parents will carry on living off their taxpayer dollar and not have to lift a finger to contribute to sorting out the mess...
continental Europeans have consistently voted or helped into power, racist, populist or violent nutjobs
and now we've decided it might be a good idea too?
Need to get Mrs Nipper working on the German passport application. The only other passport I have access to is an Australian one which is the other last place on the planet I want to go!
But there is one further objective we are setting. For as I have said before – it is in no one’s interests for there to be a cliff-edge for business or a threat to stability, as we change from our existing relationship to a new partnership with the EU.
That is the text, it is an objective not a demand - language is important - European leaders want to know where we are coming from and she has set her stall out. According to EU reporters, EU side of neogiations say it fits in with how they saw talks being structured.
But in the mad world of the European Parliament, the Socialist Group want to sack Verhofstadt as their negotiator.
Gordon Brown, though poor, was better at being PM than May - on present showing at least. She really has been poor.
Wow!!
Blimey the word has gone into hyperbole overdrive today
May said nothing new of substance and yet the lattes are flying out
Go long Whitbread (owners of Costa Coffee)
Thanks mefty for the small dose of rationality
She's living in a fantasy world
Well by a bit of a fluke she did end up with a dream job, that I doubt she ever expected to get.
Not sure how long she's got to hold it to get the pension though but I do think all her Christmasses arrived together and she's now ust got to keep a few plates spinning before a retirement and the after dinner speech circuit.
She is making a unilateral move FFS!
Our European partners have been asking us to set out what we want to do ever since the referendum, she has set it out and now you are complaining that she
has done what has been asked.
I was watching the speech from Davos live
You are in Davos, so you are one of the illuminati - no wonder you are upset.
Not sure who was funnier today - Verhofstadt or Fallon?
it's Britain's government.
No it's the British people. The governments position was to remain. The public disagreed. They are responsible but I accept that individual responsibility is an unpopular concept these days
I think you post nicely sums up many Brits' attitudes to their foreign neighbours, Tom_W1987.
Pure ignorant xenophobia.
You left Tony Blair off your list BTW.
Edit: live on TV, Mefty. Being rich and powerful are the only requirements for a Davos invite (journos apart)
I'm not complaining about the fact she has set out what she wants. I'm complaining that's it's unrealistic, and delivered in a frankly insulting manner.
Not sure who was funnier today - Verhofstadt or Fallon?
I think you must mean Farron, the Minister for Today is never off message.
[i]In the meantime, the people who'll keep things moving in the UK will be the hard-working, industrious and entrepreneurial ie. the remain constituency.[/I]
Yes, but we're going to make damn sure that the Govt gets as little of our money as possible 'cos we're going to need every penny of it to get us through the 5h1tstorm that is coming.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38652708
Indeed mofty typinq om an iQphone
Excuse the typos!
Will it get through Commons/Lords?