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Old Europe might want us gone, but I think it would be a tough decision for new (Eastern) Europe to want us out - especially with Putin's sabre rattling and Trump's views on Russia and NATO.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
when jambalaya apologises for making up stuff to back up his arguments 😉
It may sound like bullying but repeatedly claiming things he surely knows to be false as true should be called out
Old Europe might want us gone, but I think it would be a tough decision for new (Eastern) Europe to want us out - especially with Putin's sabre rattling and Trump's views on Russia and NATO.
So who is going to defend eastern europe if not Nato???? It certainly won't be the UK who object to any european defence co-operation outside Nato for a starter. I believe that Trump would be happy to give the Baltic countries and Poland to Russia if he felt it suited his agenda.
bikeeey - MemberI principally voted leave as I value democracy...
1) first past the post
2) unelected second house
3) unelected head of state
your valued 'democracy' is an illusion at best.
So who is going to defend eastern europe if not Nato???? It certainly won't be the UK who object to any european defence co-operation outside Nato for a starter. I believe that Trump would be happy to give the Baltic countries and Poland to Russia if he felt it suited his agenda.
Exactly. And with US support uncertain, UK support for NATO increases in importance.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
If I sit here telling you that the moon is made of cheese, completely ignore multiple examples given by others to explain that it's not, yet consistently claim that I'm both correct and you're all wrong, I suspect many posters would tell me that I'm wrong several times. If I continue doing this for about a year, there'll be not only a lot of posts telling me I'm wrong, and a few quite rightly questioning both my mental capacity and my ability to have an intelligent discussion.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
It will be impossible to prove right OR wrong, to be able to prove you need to have two cases that you can compare.
think like this, there are many times in life where you have a choice, you make that choice and you may wonder if it was the right choice, but you can never know the outcome if you have made a different choice.
No one is bullying Jamba by asking him to back up his assertions.
I wouldn't worry about him on this thread, because he, and we, know that…
1) We will almost certainly leave the EU (which is what he wants)
2) The EU will be weaker for losing one of its most successful economies (which is what he wants)
3) Our manner of exit is likely to result in us leaving all the European institutions (which is what he wants)
4) The Tories will now be in power for a generation (which is what he wants)
5) The Tories will prioritise financial services in future replacement deals (which is what he wants)
7) UK regulation will in time become much weaker than that of the EU countries (which is what he wants)
So very little reason to feel sorry for him as regards the issues discussed here at all!
[quote=kelvin ]No one is bullying Jamba by asking him to back up his assertions.
I wouldn't worry about him on this thread, because he, and we, know that…
1) We will almost certainly leave the EU (which is what he wants)
2) The EU will be weaker for losing one of its most successful economies (which is what he wants)
3) Our manner of exit is likely to result in us leaving all the European institutions (which is what he wants)
4) The Tories will now be in power for a generation (which is what he wants)
5) The Tories will prioritise financial services in future replacement deals (which is what he wants)
7) UK regulation will in time become much weaker than that of the EU countries (which is what he wants)
So very little reason to feel sorry for him as regards the issues discussed here at all!
8 ) He lives in France
9) He'll be retired and living in the sun by the time the 'result' is known
10) He'll then be deported back to the UK, but as he's not lived here for so long he'll be forced to take a citizenship test, which he'll fail
I think he may still be resident in the UK, though spending a lot of time in France. Benefit of doubt to be appplied on that one.
Play the ball not the man.
The EU is trying to level the playground, while some member states, notably Ireland Luxembourg, the Netherlands and the UK, busy themselves (ab)using the autonomy they still have to create as much advantage as possible.
[quote=philxx1975 ] I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
Essentially if you post things that are untrue then you will be challenged for it on here as the forum is, whatever the politics, broadly rational and facts based
Its really not our fault he cannot meet this standard and that folk point it out to him.
as for play his arguments one can only do this if he were rational and fact based as he is not , and by lord many of us have tried, then folk inevitably just mock him/play the man/bully him as you prefer.
I have largely given up engaging as it is pointless and he wont change
Unfortunately i dont think many of those who disagree with his approach will give up though so we are left with this
And "this" is a pretty accurate reflection of the UK as a whole. The posters contributing reflecting the views of their camps and interest groups. It's a mess, there won't be many winners but Jamba and others who specialise in providing a maximum of return with a minimum of tax and to hell with ethics will be among them.
I wonder what is going to happen to the special relationship with the US after the golden shower dossier?
It should strengthen it, Chris, playing amusing games with prostitutes is a favourite activity of the Westminster set. Where's Jive Honey Jive when we need him?
well the secret agent who wrote the dossier has gone to ground
[b]MAKES YOU THINK[/b]
cchris2lou - Member
I wonder what is going to happen to the special relationship with the US after the golden shower dossier?
trump is quite plainly upset about this
[img] 
[/img]
the scum reporting that it was our new EU ambassador that passed it to McCain
trump is launching an investigation into it all
embarrassing for Johnson & May
embarrassing for Johnson & May
back to the back of the queue you go. we really are going to end up friendless at this rate.
Will Mr Assange be getting a room mate?
Assange is gutted he sold out to Trump hoping to be forgotten.
back to the back of the queue you go. we really are going to end up friendless at this rate.
We will have to remain in EU and hide
Interesting view of the difference in opinions north and south of the border...
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/yougov-polls-reveals-chasm-between.html?m=1
Interesting view of the difference in opinions north and south of the border...http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/yougov-polls-reveals-chasm-between.html?m=1
Strange results. Every question had a majority saying it would be worse yet in hindsight we would still vote to leave. Says it all about the voters doesn't it or is it simply because there wasn't a question on immigration...
Comments are interesting.
I think my fellow Scots should think about the irony of labelling all English as xenophobes.
[quote=igm ]Comments are interesting.
I think my fellow Scots should think about the irony of labelling all English as xenophobes.
The uber nats are pretty revolting to be fair
and completely irrelevant and a tiny number. Far right tories disgust me far more and are far more unplesant
TJ - for me, they're all in the same bucket really
It's one of the great problems of modern politics tbh, both sides want to pretend that the worst of their opposition are representative and important, and in turn they end up giving the people on the margins a far louder voice than they'd otherwise have had.
[quote=igm ]TJ - for me, they're all in the same bucket really
i agree there is nothing nice about uber nats from any nation
NW also makes a good point ad Scottish nationalism is not like English nationalism [EDL for example]which is actually racist
I imagine you can find racist in all parties supporters without much effort
The great problem with moden politics is phoney populism. Salmond, Farage, Trump, Fox, Bojo, Sturgeon - all sell a mirage. Bargain basement snake oil.
IGM on one thread q recently someone suggested that 10% of the population were in that bucket. I think they got their Maths wrong though.
unlike most of the unionists on this thread, I live in Scotland, have an english accent and name, I have not seen anti english racism for decades. Its simply not a real issue of any consequence - its just a way for unionists to smear scots nationalist.
The racism in the tory party is far worse, its an integral part of this governments policies and it effects far more people.
Mote in Eye anyone?
The racism in the tory party is far worse, its an integral part of this governments policies and it effects far more people.
Odd then that Labour has suspended over 50 members for racism, a senior Momentum figure twice in 12 months and the Home Affairs Select Committee said Corbyn had created "a safe space" for such behaviour.
Meh the Torys split in two tho, the kippers have the lion's share of the racists now!
jambalaya - MemberOdd then that Labour has suspended over 50 members for racism, a senior Momentum figure twice in 12 months and the Home Affairs Select Committee said Corbyn had created "a safe space" for such behaviour.
Which might just tell you about which party cares enough to take action, and which one sweeps problems under the carpet. Who knows?
Anyway, have we invoked A50 yet?
TJ - a Scot resident in Yorkshire here. I've seen Scots bigots, racists and xenophobes and I've see English bigots, racists and xenophobes, and on balance I prefer neither.
I will agree though that the SNP are not nationalist in the sense that the BNP, EDL or UKIP are.
Tores and racism, Amber Rudd investigated by the WMP for incitement.
And what did the Tories do about it?
Cannondale putting their prices up by 6.4% on average not because of Brexit but because of fall in the £. And Specialized too.
Anyway, have we invoked A50 yet?
[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-northern-ireland-crisis-stormont-assembly-delay-theresa-may-illegal-article-50-a7526126.html ]don't hold yer breath [/url]!
Cannondale putting their prices up by 6.4% on average not because of Brexit but because of fall in the £. And Specialized too.
We're looking at a 10% increase on some products, which are bought by local authorities and paid for by you. A win win scenario, no?
@Boarding, its not individual abattoirs its the whole rearing process. We in UK have been following strict rules for years and the EU more recently adopted them. Many Eastern European countries have never been compliant, aren't now but their identites are kept secret and they are allowed to keep selling. BBC did something on it during Referendum, interviews with farmers etc who cannot compete price wise.
We shovel huge amounts into the EU coffers and then get told how to spend the fraction we get back.
@bikeey yes indeed, there is no need to justify this as MikeSmith has asked as he himself has already posted links to factcheck.org showing how much we send on a net basis. Yes the EU gives us back our own money to the projects or agricultural sectors it decides. Madness.
Will any of you apologise to poor old jambalaya if he's proven right, I've noticed a few of these threads are starting have undertones of bullying.
@phill thanks for the post, appreciated. It does get a bit that way sometimes and it's bothered others enough to make reports and people have been banned. Some here need a Pantomime Villain to shout at. Now I do understand it, I have little time for Political Correctness and just post what I think. The fact that on most of the big issues over the 4 or 5 years I have been here have come down "my way" does wind people up. Many posters have given up trying to respond and just go for the "it's all lies" retort as you can see, just a blanket attempt to discredit. I told the magazine it doesn't bother me and they have better things to do.
@Boarding (again) I live in the UK in terms of primary residence, pay my taxes there etc. Have spent probably 80% of my time in UK since 2012, prior 2 years in Singapore and 6 months in NY in 2008. Prior to that in UK from 1992 when I got back from 3 years in NY. Last 6 months of 2016 mostly in France for a variety of reasons inc one particular personal one I posted here. Whether I live in the UK is irrelevant to this debate, Mike and Zippy (or maybe Zokes) live in Australia.
We're looking at a 10% increase on some products, which are bought by local authorities and paid for by you. A win win scenario, no?
Record spending by tourists over last 6 months of 2016 especially from Asia taking advantage of lower £. As we posted lower £ encourages people to buy British and is particularly important given we have a trade deficit. Devaluing a currency is a common tactic to boost an economy.
we really dont 😉Some here need a Pantomime Villain to shout at.
If you read the Caterer and Hotel keeper magazine, you would see that numbers are down despite weak £.
Guardian reporting that EU are worried about London leaving and the resulting impact on EU finances as it will result in higher costs for EU countries when they can least afford it. Interesting times.
Record spending by tourists over last 6 months of 2016 especially from Asia taking advantage of lower £. As we posted lower £ encourages people to buy British and is particularly important given we have a trade deficit. Devaluing a currency is a common tactic to boost an economy.
Phew! There's a good, solid long term strategy in place then? 🙄
Some here need a Pantomime Villain to shout at
No, really we'd much rather have a constructive fact based discussion. But through choice, lack of will or capacity you choose not to engage with facts. Claiming to be a pantomime villain just demonstrates your apparent childishness in this regard, actually.
I have little time for Political Correctness and just post what I think. The fact that on most of the big issues over the 4 or 5 years I have been here have come down "my way" does wind people up.
Honestly it's more the posting of lies claiming they are facts, then when presented with the actual facts keeping going with it. Hows the 350 million a week going, the millions of Poles and the 10bn for the NHS?
[quote=cchris2lou ]If you read the Caterer and Hotel keeper magazine, you would see that numbers are down despite weak £.
we have had enough of experts and facts thank you very much
[quote=Junkyard ] Some here need a Pantomime Villain to shout at.
we really dont
Oh yes we do..
😀 WF!!
Cchris2lou - not because of Brexshit but because of the fall in the pound??? Did I miss some sarcasm there?
The pound has fallen, stuff is more expensive to buy from overseas so prices will go up, of course it is because of brexit, but every-time a company says they are changing prices and mentions brexit all the kippers come along and say "they are just using brexit as an excuse to scam us all out of more money"
Every penny that goes on a litre of petrol is another indicator of how much freer we are.
When the first garage puts it's price up to £1.50 a litre we should have nigel in front of the sign waving a union jack and have a street party.
At that price I'm starting to feel the shackles slip and at £2 I will stand on the white cliffs shouting FREEDOM to those pesky frogs.
"Who's laughing now."
@thm, article in cycling weekly.
I have little time for Political Correctness
To be fair, the Brexies are the greatest exponents of political correctness - as in "if you don't agree, you're a traitor".
The attempted bullying of the rest of the population by Brexies is spectacular. Go read just about any Mail comments page if you don't believe me.
Jamba I suspect is like me. Not that easy to bully really.
I have little time for[s] Political[/s] Correctness
Boom-tish !
Phew! There's a good, solid long term strategy in place then?
Make sure they buy plenty of scones and jam while they're here.
We do work for 5 mid size hotel chains (30 + hotels each) all saying their room occupations are down - not anecdotal right from the Finance Directors. Better landfill them scones.
Steady on now folks the way you are all negating jambys claim with actual evidence will be construed as bullying the "pantomime villain" .Unfortunately he fails to grasp that it is the way he just spouts factually incorrect statements to support his view and then dont retract them when presented with the actual facts
its unlikely the hive mind will ignore someone being wrong over and over again on easily checkable matters.
George Osborne’s [b]‘Ludicrous’[/b] Emergency Brexit Budget Threat Undermined Remain, IFS Boss Paul Johnson Says
Institute for Fiscal Studies gives both barrels to George Osbourne in an interview with Huffington Post 🙂
The punishment budget was for me the moment all Remain credibility was lost, already severly damaged by the Treasury "Predictions" this was the final straw.
As the IFS Director says 10 years from now it will be very hard to say definitively what the impact of Brexit will be. There are so many complex factors all at work.
Junkyard the evidence is very much one way. The UK remains the G7's strongest Economy post Brexit and activity in the rest of Europe is very weak. As I said Airbus laid off 1000 people about 80 of which are in the UK, 400 each in Germany and France - we can guess the headlines if it had been 400 in fhe UK. Alstrom which makes trains is in big trouble as the orders just aren't there (had a French governent cash injection via a "fake" order). There is an underlying backdrop of significant recessionary forces in Europe and a looming Sovereign Debt crises which will make 2008 seem like a kids birthday party.
What's was the EUs GDP growth in the last Q Jambas?
We have just had a massive stumulus (£ devaluation) combined with stealing (QE) and a givernment spending more that it earns to a greater degree that the Europeans......so yes we are growing a little faster and why? Debt fueled consumption. We can hold back on the complacency for a while yet.
Consumer debt crisis or economic slowdown (one of the two) just round the corner in the UK imo.
its unlikely the hive mind will ignore someone being wrong over and over again on easily checkable matters.
574 pages driven mostly by Jamba BS says otherwise.
574 pages
At the risk of using Brexit maths, 576 pages if you include all the deleted posts.
(-:
The UK remains the G7's strongest Economy post Brexit
I've been out, did I miss something? 😯
slowoldman - Member
The UK remains the G7's strongest Economy post Brexit
I've been out, did I miss something?
No just another Jambafact#
Interesting pieces in Telegragph (sourced by Guardain). Head EU negotiator speaking at private meeting was minuted as saying (quite correctoy) that the EU needed open access to the London financial markets. Finally we have something sensible from the EU's side. Without those markets and products Europe will be a deep do-do. The regularory structures simply don't exist in Europe and could not be created fast enough and I very much doubt European Governments really have the political will to take on the costs and liabilities of a relocation.
TMH, very happy to do a growth MTM at end of 2017, 18, 19 and 20
Kerley feel free to have your own discussion just with people who agree with you. What Indid is sign up to a campaign, give some money, give some time and went out to grab a once in a lifetime opportunity to chnage the direction of our country for the better. You might like to listen to what Barack had to say here
10) He'll then be deported back to the UK, but as he's not lived here for so long he'll be forced to take a citizenship test, which he'll fail
Unfortunately Madame Jamba is "negotiation capital" so she won't be allowed to join him. Except, of course, he's probably rich enough to buy her private medical insurance, so he's all right, Jack.
Jambas, I am also looking forward to seeing first rates this year and next. In the meantime, may I repeat my question, how fast are the EU and the EZ growing NOW. I am Intirgued to know Sha "Very weak" is.
Mrovershoot, on your side, you might want to apologise to Jambas as his "fact" about G7 growth rates is correct. (But it is not expected to last.)
Jamby claimed it was the strongest economy not it was the fastest growing- i have no idea how such a nebulous concept would be proved tbh
Head EU negotiator speaking at private meeting was minuted as saying (quite correctoy) that the EU needed open access to the London financial markets
this is not what the minutes said and it is not what hs clarification said either
the jambyfacts - though thi sis more a distortion of what happened that a complete fabrication- come so often some slip under the radar
the actual facts are below for anyone who cares - clearly not you Jamby
TMH no one here is ever going to aplogise, they'll just keep posting their "it's all lies stuff" day in day out rather than engage in a discussion. They don't have the strength of character to do either of those things.
More than one attendee at the EU meeting backed up the Torygraph piece not least as its true. Mark mynwords Trumps election and his approach to the IMF is going to put the fear of God into the EU. He (quite rightly) is going to screw the EU into the ground over their mishandling of Greece. The EU needs the City of London very badly right now.
Please. I have apologised on this very thread when I have said things clumsily or in accurately.
Don't tar everyone with the same brush.
The EU needs the City of London very badly right now
Probably mutual given what Trump and his protectionist tendency might do. But then again, Trump, who knows?
True.
But 😉 I will still repeat my question politely!!
Avez-vous remarque....... 😉
This made me laugh. He might want to have a word with his EU colleagues from Ireland and Luxembourg first
I am encouraged by Barnier's rhetoric so far.
Agreed Jamba - but surely you've found a kindred spirit there?
TMH no one here is ever going to aplogise, they'll just keep posting their "it's all lies stuff" day in day out rather than engage in a discussion. They don't have the strength of character to do either of those things.
Plenty of "engagement", you just refuse to back up your blatant lies when asked to. It gets tedious.
You just move on and ignore all questions others ask you about your spurious claims.
Still, the world is going the way you want, and the tactics you use here are proven to work in the wider world now, so why should you care?
TMH no one here is ever going to aplogise, they'll just keep posting their "it's all lies stuff" day in day out rather than engage in a discussion. They don't have the strength of character to do either of those things.
Beyond parody.