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“People did not vote on June 23rd to become poorer or less secure.”😀
Live with it - or move!!
1) the rise of what you describe is occurring in many countries, you can not move to escape it
2) seeking to change the path we are on is what democracy is for, no need to just quietly accept things
3) which countries do I have the right to move to, and stay in, after we leave the EU?
No thm, she didn't have to insist that this was "the will of the people" and that we have to leave the EU at any cost. She could have done her job and realised that 52/48 (with the 52 hopelessly divided about what they actually want) isn't much of a mandate for such a ridiculously damaging policy. But she seems determined to march the country off a cliff...for what? Some ideological point or other? TO pacify the tory extremists? Nothing to do with trying to find the best outcome for the country, that's for sure.
SOD - we are a divided nation. I for one had no idea that we are as xenophobic and racist (and ignorant) as events have shown. But that's the reality. Live with it - or move!!
You can add homophobic to that. Problem is all countries are the same and offer a mix of open minded and narrow minded people.
Having a referendum allows the narrow minded to have a say (based on prejudice and ignorance) which is exactly why we should never have referendums...
Live with it - or move!!
Well OK. On the basis that these divisions seem to be in place throughout Europe maybe we need some sort of Indian Subcontinent partition. Stick a border in place and those of us who wish to work with our European neighbours can live on one side and all the insular xenophobes can carve up the rest into their independent fiefdoms. On that basis I would move.
On that basis I would move.
So would I. Imagine there would soon be problems as once all the idiots are on their own they would soon realise the problem wasn't what they thought.
maybe we need some sort of Indian Subcontinent partition.
Good Idea, we need form of physical border in place between the fledgling Independent Britain and the EU
Maybe dig some form of moat or 'channel' and fill it with water?
No Ninfan but I think it requires you to move to Hartlepool.
Will I still be able to get Guacamole?
(gratuitous Peter Mandelson reference for the uninitiated)
Not sure - nearest Waitrose some 30 miles away.
ninfan - Member
Will I still be able to get Guacamole?(gratuitous Peter Mandelson reference for the uninitiated)
youll have to explain that for those of us that dont follow him quite so avidly
Captian - read the question. Is was quite clear
Mandeleson allegedly mistook mushy peas in chip shop for Guacamole.
...in Hartlepool
(though its probably apocryphal and Mandelson reckons it was a actually an american researcher/intern. theres an alternative theory it was really him mistaking it with pease pudding in a sandwich shop rather than mushy peas in a chip shop that has improved with the retelling)
wrong kind of chips
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But she seems determined to march the country off a cliff...for what?
She might be using Cameron's technique of proposing an extreme policy which draws strong opposition, then rolling it back to what was originally planned, thereby appearing all moderate and inclusive whilst doing what you wanted all along.
Good Idea, we need form of physical border in place between the fledgling Independent Britain and the EU
Maybe dig some form of moat or 'channel' and fill it with water?
You're going to need an area bigger than the UK to house the 50% of Europe who want to be insular.
[i]How long do we have to put up with Chewkw's non stop verbal diarrhoea? It's so transparent and tiresome.[/I]
Careful 'cos last time I suggested that he'd better going back to whatever basket-case of a country he came from I was censured - but the thought still stands, at not just for me it seems.
Unfortunately the internet is available globally. We will never be safe.
[quote=teamhurtmore ]She is in a tough position because - like me - she is not in favour of of leaving. We know that.
Are you sure? I note that JC also campaigned on the Remain side...
The reality of the next 10-20 years (interesting piece on BBC news website today) is the bottom 25% of our society is going to sacrificed completely and utterly deprived of any opportunity unless they can educate themselves to degree level. Semi skilled/manual factory work is going to disappear. As I have said before this group of people have no political power (even if they all voted UKIP) so Brexit or no Brexit they are ****ed and destined for minimum wage/slumlords/reduced welfare and health care - for life. Please stop responding to Chewkw (troll)
A few edits TMH. Those of us which raised these issues over the past few years have been called all the names you use and more.
SOD - we are a divided nation. I for one had [s]no idea that we are as xenophobic and racist (and ignorant)[/s] not been paying attention as events have shown. But that's the reality. [s]Live with it - or move!![/s] It's now time to address these issues, starting by reading this
Binners has posted before about the realities of life "on the ground" in the North, totally segregated and divided communities. As immigrant numbers grow there is actually less integration as people chose to live in the same area and create a "mini home town" environment and our notion of equality means they are entitied to request dedicated schooling etc.
It has been a serious and worsening situation for a very long time. One which most politicians just chose to ignore.
Political Correctness has lead to some here, eg those wishing to stay in the EU for example, paying a high price
educate themselves to degree level
I was thinking of starting a thread about the recent decison that ALL police recruits must have a degree. Firstly, I think being a good policeman needs a skill set which many inclined or able to do a degree don't have and secondly such people need good quality jobs and careers, we should be providing more not less such quality non-degree carrers (to our own citizens as a priority of course)
It has been a serious and worsening situation for a very long time. One which most politicians just chose to ignore.
Indeed. Politicians have been ignoring such problems for ages. However leaving the EU is not the solution.
Reminds me of the Golgafrinchians in whichever Hitchhiker's book it was. They adopted the leaf as their currency, which led to runaway inflation. So they decided to combat that by burning down all the forests.
That's about the level we are at.
is the bottom 25% of our society is going to sacrificed completely and utterly deprived of any opportunity unless they can educate themselves to degree level.
If they set the target low enough.
are entitied to request dedicated schooling
i'm not sure they are entitled to it as you put it, but the formation of academy schools, some of which are dedicated to specific religions, should never have been allowed. this fosters an 'us and them' attitude early in life that is not only inappropriate but fundamentally destructive to the ideal of an integrated society.
we should be providing more not less such quality non-degree carrers
care to elaborate? i'm intrigued what these 'quality non-degree carrers' (sic) are/could be?
Remain voter fraud in Hackney, quite an amusing 1:20 radio clip. I wonder if there was a Remain bias for such fraud ? Would be interesting to see the electoral wards selected for upcoming ID requirement experiment and see how they voted on June 23
Reminds me of the Golgafrinchians in whichever Hitchhiker's book it was. They adopted the leaf as their currency, which led to runaway inflation. So they decided to combat that by burning down all the forests.
Where is Douglas when he's needed.
quite nicely describes the Brexit process to date.A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
Or perhaps better:
“Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.”
@ Del nursing was a good example of a non-degree career. The law also used to have a non-graduate path to my profession as a solicitor.
On my last stay in hospital I did actually hear a youngish nurse say when presented with an older patient who had been sick on himself 'I have a degree - I don't do vomit.'
care to elaborate? i'm intrigued what these 'quality non-degree carrers' (sic) are/could be?
computer game artist used to be entirely non degree, less so now but if your work is good enough they'll hire you degree or not.
Remain voter fraud in Hackney, quite an amusing 1:20 radio clip. I wonder if there was a Remain bias for such fraud ?
Man admits voter fraud. Other man infers behaviour of millions from actions of one man. Both dishonest, in their own way.
Remain voter fraud in Hackney, quite an amusing 1:20 radio clip. I wonder if there was a Remain bias for such fraud ? Would be interesting to see the electoral wards selected for upcoming ID requirement experiment and see how they voted on June 23
I'd be more than happy that [b]everyone[/b] has to use an ID card to identify themsleves.
I'd go so far as introducing a weighting determined upon how much time the registered voter spends in the UK too.
As for using a Hopkins radio show, I've told you before about using biased media for examples, it ain't going to wash.
Man admits voter fraud. Other man infers behaviour of millions from actions of one man. Both dishonest, in their own way.
Still trolling at full volume I see, I just asked a question. FWIW voter fraud via postal or otherwise is pretty focused, the demographics aren't hard to see.
Yes me too Captain, no one thinks twice about showing ID before voting in France. Not rocket science. I'd not bother with a trial I would just change the law for 2020 GE onwards. Compulsory everywhere.
Binners has posted before about the realities of life "on the ground" in the North, totally segregated and divided communities. As immigrant numbers grow there is actually less integration as people chose to live in the same area and create a "mini home town" environment and our notion of equality means they are entitied to request dedicated schooling etc.
yes BUT we do know which communities consider immigration to be an issue - not those you describe
All five Brexshit arguments were LIES as was immigration, but the latter swung it. We should be embarrassed not proud of what was revealed in 2016.
I just asked a question.
Yes, you just asked an entirely innocent question. No other agenda.
#jambaworld
Yes me too Captain, no one thinks twice about showing ID before voting in France. Not rocket science. I'd not bother with a trial I would just change the law for 2020 GE onwards. Compulsory everywhere.
Good to see that you agree it has to be an all or nothing argument. Getting back to immigration. 😀
Binners has posted before about the realities of life "on the ground" in the North, totally segregated and divided communities.
I used to live just about over the hill from Binners, this image you paint using Binners is not one that I recognise. Totally segregated and divided? Where the hell do you get this from? My local newsagent was a t+++ because he was a Liverpool fan, not because of his religion.
It really is this type of bullcrap where your unbridled ignorance shines through.
[quote=captainsasquatch ]I used to live just about over the hill from Binners, this image you paint using Binners is not one that I recognise.
Yeah, but what would you know - clearly jamba is an expert on communities in the North.
Yeah, but what would you know - clearly jamba is an expert on communities in the North.
You know what? I think that he believes that he is. There'll be some bizarre link coming through now that he has family/friends/worked up there, once, in the distant past.
Yeah, but what would you know - clearly jamba is an expert [s]on communities in the North[/s].
FTFY
Meanwhile in the north (of England that is, not Britain)... our local greasy spoon has put a post out on Facebook that there is still time for the balance to be redressed by Murdoch and/or Trump being the last celebrities to die in 2016. I could add a few others but really one shouldn't wish it on people.
A fascinating and diverse place the north. Some places strongly pro-EU, with others strongly for tearing it down.
Interestingly the less immigration, the more anti-immigration they are - but that's all over really.
So Jambas - just read the executive summary of the Casey Report (thx for the link) but missed reference to the negative impact that immigration plays - can you point me to the relevant bits?
So, so s*** scared is our PM of falling out with Trump and not jinxing any ftd she is happy to try and wheedle out of last weeks UN Security Council resolution on illegal settlements in Palestinian Occupied Territories. So were now going to be Trump's poodle in the name of Brexshit. Contemptible.
I can't say I'm surprised. Special relationship innit?
I'm going to have serious problems differentiating between all those similar looking $ bills, my eyes ain't what they were, y'all!
Does seem rather 2 faced move by May, but Brexshit has made us desperate not to upset potential trade partners, whatever the cost.
Brexshit has made us desperate not to upset potential trade partners, whatever the cost.
I suppose that's what they mean by taking back control.
http://www.libdems.org.uk/membership-faqs
Please join these people.
It's 12 quid.
Please join these people.
ooo look the vote lib get the tory party party.
What procedure do you recommend that people who wish to stay in europe take?
how does propping up a minority tory regime keep us in Europe ? 😕
It's got 100% more chance of achieving something than arguing with strangers on here.
Brexshit has made us desperate not to upset potential trade partners, whatever the cost.
This has been part of my reasoning all along: We've decided to swap trade with tried and tested entities on our doorstep for trade with Countries on the other side of the world with dubious civil rights records, dubious environmental records (don't you dare mention China's Yangtze Dam as an environmental project), and dubious political regimes and agendas.
oh please, they sold their souls for a sniff of a couple of dog ends and a lick of an old pork scratching off the floor they have all the principles of Donald Trump. #nottobetrusted
You might be right but right now my house is on fire and I don't care who is driving the fire engine.
What procedure do you recommend that people who wish to stay in europe take
Well maybe go and live on the European mainland in one of those countries that loves immigrants too, simple really if you dont like it there is another choice.
You might be right but right now my house is on fire and I don't care who is driving the fire engine.
Yeah, unfortunately the Driver got a call from Mrs Mayhem on the way "I've got something nice in my pocket, do you want to come and play with it ? there's a nice doggy"
Well maybe go and live on the European mainland in one of those countries that loves immigrants too, simple really if you dont like it there is another choice.
Interesting that over the last 40 odd years all the Brexshiteers haven't pissed off to live in USA. What a bizarre response. Or there could be sufficent pressure put on the govt to remain. and if you don't like that, you know what you can do. It's already clear that Brexshit is losing support from inside as I predicted some time ago.
😀
The vote LD strategy is superficially attractive until you remember they are pro the € and greater federalism. Then it falls down.
The inconvenient truth is that CMD engineered the optimum result and we have now thrown this away and wil have a worse result. Idiocy in the extreme.
I merely provided a link for other like minded people to join a political party.
I'm sorry if that has offended anyone.
. What a bizarre response
Really has there been a referendum in that 40 years ? No but now there has and you know your living somewhere half the people don't like you ,continue the argument rather than heading off to sunnier climes eh?
The odd response is that despite people now seeing it's not their Britain anymore they are hanging around just in case.
Sorry ZK I largely agree, excuse me if that come across badly. The LDs are the only genuinely pro EU party. My gripe is that they don't know where to draw the line! But yes, voting LD is a viable and logical alternative
Tbc, the idiocy comment was directed at leavers who threw away a very strong position in favour of a much weaker one.
The odd response is that despite people now seeing it's not their Britain anymore they are hanging around just in case.
Except that it is our Britain and we have to work to improve it.
Well maybe go and live on the European mainland in one of those countries that loves immigrants too, simple really if you dont like it there is another choice.
Only we don't have that choice any more. Duuhh.
The odd response is that despite people now seeing it's not their Britain anymore they are hanging around just in case.
Rubbish, just because the referendum has led to an increase in hate crime and helped legitimise racists like farage, doesn't mean that I don't want to stay here and make it a better place.
Let's face it the brexies will need sensible remoaners here to help fix your mess.
Scapegoating immigrants and the EU for Westminster's failings is a tissue thin strategy anyway, its worth sticking around just to see who the brexies try and blame when Brexshit only makes peoples lives worse.
it is our Britain
Well if you take your optimism and maybe jingoistic view out of the equation, you may find its a country divided, that's a game of two halfs and depends which "our" camp you reside in.
Only we don't have that choice any more
Of course you do all these countries will allow you to seek residency and will all have a process, you could probably claim persecution or infringement of your human rights :roll:, sounds more like laziness on your part ,there's always choice
How is 'remain' jingoistic?
you know your living somewhere half the people don't like you
Half? Last time I check is was nearer a 25% vote for Brexit.
So 25% of the country are ignorant/racist - probably the same number if I moved somewhere else.
Any idea which countries have the lowest level of ignorance across the population, I have never seen such a measurement?
Your missing the point "don't like" you have options just because they aren't the ones your crying into your cornflakes over.....
philxx1975 - Member
Your missing the point "don't like" you have options just because they aren't the ones your crying into your cornflakes over.....
Basically what you're saying Phil is:
EUROPHILES GO HOME
Yeah?
😉
How is 'remain' jingoistic?
Phil is another Brexy being silly. Feel free to let him rant on his own.
TMH what the Casey report shows is that we have social segregation and lack of opportunitiy for some immigrant communities, ie "it's not working" amd its getting worse not better with increasing segregation. We should be addressing this before placing the enormous stresses of significant EU migration onto it. There was a Newsnight panel in the days after the report, maybe that's on their YouTube channel ?
I don't need to be an expert, I can just read binners post, use my own eyes and ears in the 5 years I spent regularly visiting Leeds and Bradford and reading the Casey report. I grew up in South London (Balham, Streatham, Tooting) which was and still is very ethnically mixed but seems not to have remained "ghetto-ised" as have other places. People here are still in denial on this issue. Multi-culturalism has just lead to greater segregation and now it's possible due to increased numbers to chose to live in a segregated community with seperate schools, shops and tv and not integrate.
As I have said these issues always come to the fore in times of economic stress and with my predicted significant EU recession on the horizon it's going to get materially worse.
use my own eyes and ears in the 5 years I spent regularly visiting Leeds and Bradford
#Boom!
That's one bingo point to me. 😆
I wonder whether people don't want to integrate or don't want to integrate with you and you ilk Jamba????!!!!!
Can't find the Casey discussion but here is a short version of a Newsnight film (18 mins) into the largest single migrant loss of life in 2016. This crises was made worse by the EU and materially so. EU law has been widely ignored by member countries and the EU has been totally unable to deal with the situation. Merkel tries tomstep in an act uniltaerally with disasterous consequences. Incompetence at every turn with a tragic outcome
Captain. Ears listening to people, my eldest is married to a Leeds local. Eyes to see the segregation and read what Binners posted of the reality "on the ground"
I grew up in South London (Balham, Streatham, Tooting) which was and still is very ethnically mixed but seems not to have remained "ghetto-ised" as have other places. People here are still in denial on this issue. Multi-culturalism has just lead to greater segregation
So you give an example of successful multi-cultural society, and then immediately tell us how multi-culturalism is a problem.
You have to see the inconsistency there surely? Multi-culturalism CAN work, as you have said, if you address the issues. Quitting the EU is not the solution.
Captain. Ears listening to people, my eldest is married to a Leeds local. Eyes to see the segregation and read what Binners posted of the reality "on the ground"
As stated, I lived over the hill (2 actually) from Binners and could give you my "on the ground" experience. But I think you know how it goes.
It's totally unfair for anyone to judge racial integration in Northern mill towns on the basis of what they see in Bradford and Leeds!
They should visit Keighley, and realise that Bradford and Leeds are cosmopolitan melting pots by comparison