[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

So is economic activity leaving the UK for the US because of Brexit better or worse than economic activity leaving the UK for the rest of the EU?

Doesn't matter either way to Jamba, he's sorted and screw the rest.

He claims not, so let him answer.

But I thought a free trade deal with the US was going to be our saviour.

I thought it was all about the emerald isle

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/25/uk-banks-financial-firms-moving-ireland

Captain you do keep ploughing this furrow that Brexit is good for me. It's not, it will hold down house prices and by the time we are out and seeing the Econmic benefits I will be retired.

But I thought a free trade deal with the US was going to be our saviour.

We don't [b]need[/b] a free trade deal with anyone nor do we require a saviour. They are a nice to have. Most countries do just fine without.

[b]Captain you do keep ploughing this furrow that Brexit is good for me.[/b] It's not, it will hold down house prices and by the time we are out and seeing the Econmic benefits I will be retired.

We don't need a free trade deal with anyone nor do we require a saviour

priceless 😀

As an aside The The are one of my favourite bands. This is the day when things will surely change. This is the day when things fall into place. June 23, 2016

Many here seem to imply Brexit will be good for me personally or I voted for personal gain. All part of the Pantomime Villan characterisation. Nope. Voted for the long term future of the country.

So it holds down prices in the UK. How does it affect those with properties abroad?

That will be driven by EU, personally I think they are going to be affected far more negatively by events to come inc Brexit and Greek/eurozone debt crises. Property impacted negatively in both places with France worse than the UK

priceless

My gift to you. Always good to end Christmas day with a smile 🙂

That will be driven by EU, personally I think they are going to be affected far more negatively by events to come inc Brexit and Greek/eurozone debt crises. Property impacted negatively in both places with France worse than the UK

Jamba - you didn't answer my question (below for reference) which you might like to given there was a strong implication in one of your earlier statements that the US not France or Germany stealing UK business due to Brexit was good. Care to set the record straight, because it did make you sound anti-UK as well as anti-EU.

So is economic activity leaving the UK for the US because of Brexit better or worse than economic activity leaving the UK for the rest of the EU?
Or is it just bad either way?
Vultures circling?

Farages chums are looking to stab us in the back....
[img] [/img]
that wasn't on the side of the bus.

There was an interesting program on BBC World re the expectation of US rustbelt Trump voters that Trump will reindustrialise the US. Not sure how that will work without a massive dose of protectionism.

Did I not say a few pages ago that Trimp and his ilk were protectionist and that he'd favour no one but the USA?

Don't worry, Nige will ride to our rescue.with his special relationship

The rust belt Turkeys have had their Christmas - all downhill from here for them. Poor fools. At least they (will) have some N chums here to cry into their beer with.m

Just been listening to Mervyn King, ex BoE boss on R4 this morning. Very enlightening views on the EU for some I suspect, he seemed somewhat positive about Brexit, I suppose now he'll be regarded as incompitent by the remaoners.
What I found most shocking was that he made no mention of a Free Yorkshire, very ill informed I thought

Very enlightening views? It was just the usual fluff.

@mt I will try and catch that. He is one of the high profile figures able to speak freely (as he's retired) about the benefits of Brexit. He wasn't tied up in all the "party line" nonsense during the campaign. I am coming round to the idea of a Free Yorkshire, in part just to piss off the SNP 🙂

Nipper Trump intends to be protectionist in regard of low cost producers like Mexico and China

@igm sorry didn't see the question originally. Losing business is losing business so same really, once outside the EU we will be able to react more nimbly to competitive pressures. I believe London will retain it's position in the financial markets and from what I see very little business is really dependent upon passporting and UK banks are withdrawing from EU markets as they are heading south. Banking a country with 20% unemployment is a good way to loose a lot of money

BTW that "source" as I understand it is not someone in the Trump government elect, just a quote from an "advisor". Clickbait headlines again

jambalaya - Member
BTW that "source" as I understand it is not someone in the Trump government elect, just a quote from an "advisor". Clickbait headlines again

You understand wrong.

He's the pick for Commerce Secretary, who Trump apparently wants to oversee trade policy. But a cursory google would have cleared that up.

regarded as incompitent by the remaoners.

Ironing, etc.

Interesting to see the front page of the Times there

How sad it is that if it was a headline that didn't suit the STW remainders point of view they would be the [u]first[/u] to start jumping up and down shouting "Murdoch controlled media" and "Right wing Tory press"

You understand wrong.

He's the pick for Commerce Secretary, who Trump apparently wants to oversee trade policy. But a cursory google would have cleared that up.

Of course, but you miss the point. In using energy to debunk another of Jamba's lies you allow the conversation to drift away from the real issue. Apparently this is the new face of politics - the dead cat taken to its logical conclusion. Fill the air with so much fabrication that anyone can say anything.

How sad it is that if it was a headline that didn't suit the STW remainders point of view they would be the first to start jumping up and down shouting "Murdoch controlled media" and "Right wing Tory press"

How pathetic to see you exercised about what might or might not have happened in an alternative totally hypothetical situation.

That Times page also mentions at the bottom that two electricity interconnectors from France that were intended to be part funded by the EU are now more uncertain due to changes to the European energy market due to Brexit.

If we do end up with the Christmas blackouts that papers have been going on about for ever, could Leave households be cut off first? 🙂

Lifer, you are correct, I'm wrong on that point. He is in line for a post (just read the Sky piece). He made the comment in June at a meeting of bankers/finaciers in Cyprus. Seems an obvious statement to me. Malta and Ireland have been pursuing UK business, UK domiciled organisations may need a bookingboffice / brass plate. Cyprus will throw its hat into the ring. Why not.

As I said it's really not a big deal. Not least as it was a comment made in June tailored to the audience at a private meeting in Cyprus.

Mis that did ya Dr J. Sorry. Thall still be welcome in Yorkshire, it's goin to cost you a lot o beer though.

It demonstrates how much access to the single market benefits (in this instance) our financial services, without it we're not as competitive.

Too many bullshit comments since I last read this thread, so I'll just pick one…

We don't need a free trade deal with anyone nor do we require a saviour. They are a nice to have. Most countries do just fine without.

List these countries with no free trade deal with any other country… if that is "most", then it should be trivial to give us a nice long list of successful economies that do all their export business without trade deals…

I suspect countries without free trade deals didn't start off with them.

Is there a country that built a modern economy on free trade then removed it?

Mervyn was spot on IMO. Brexit is a tremendous opportunity and the EU has so many massive issues (eg euro and migration) Brexit is really the least of their worries.

Merv was only saying that it's isn't the end of he world (true) and we can look forward to things like...... Wait for it......

....agricultural reform and better relations with RoI. Why did no one stress this before? We are saved.....

Brexit is a tremendous opportunity…

Opportunity for what, and for who?

I'm waiting for a list of countries without trade deals that are doing nicely without them…

…lots of [s]mugs[/s] people really believe that we are leaving the EU, with its 50 odd trade deals, so that we can get more trade deals with better terms than the EU can get us… they'd all be intrigued to hear that we don't really need trade deals at all. It's a good line to move to though, I'll give you that… it might be wise for government ministers to start downplaying the importance of trade deals before they start failing to sign any worthwhile ones to replace the ones we lose in 2+ years time.

[i]Very enlightening views on the EU for some I suspect, he seemed somewhat positive about Brexit,[/I]

I read what he had to say as we either need to be fully in or fully out, as the middle ground doesn't give us the protection nor opportunity at a reasonable price (both financially and politically).

He's also not wrong about there been 'opportunities outside of the EU', I'm pretty sure there are, but are there enough to replace what we have at the moment?

Wait, what?

We don't want trade deals after all? I thought the whole point of leaving was that the rest of the world (well, Australia perhaps) was desperate to set up great trade deals with us but membership of the EU was tying our hands!

Want yes, need no.

Kelvin - ask John McDonnell (the Marxist), he said it was a great opportunity. EU ties our hands in so many ways, we've always been a square peg in a round hole as we are much more global in outlook than our EU colleagues.

Ah, so an absence of trade deals will mean we don't need them, and the existence of trade deals will mean the EU was holding us back. Jamba, is there any evidence that could conceivably cause you to think there might be any problems whatsoever?

Jambas, this stuff about the EU tying our hands is just nonsense. It has significantly boosted both trade and investment in the UK while at the same time bring effective standards and regulation/protection of workers rights etc. an overwhelming positive

Why limit ourselves to dealing with the losers on this planet?
There's a whole solar system out there.

I thought the whole point of leaving was that the rest of the world (well, Australia perhaps) was desperate to set up great trade deals with us but membership of the EU was tying our hands!

On the rest it's like any long technical sales process.
Step one the over exaggerated pitch
Step two managing expectations
Step three keep the process rolling and try not to let any doubts stop you (silence critical voices)
Step four Get the Purchase Order from the money guys

We are currently in 2/3 people are being rolled out to speak on message, King knows that if he had said the wrong things he would be out of a job and looking at another £ crash.

I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing positive from leaving, in spite of attempts from the leavers on the forum, I am no closer to having my opinion changed. In fact, I am more resolute than ever that the leave argument was based on nothing more than a "leave EU" ideology, with no coherent plan to move forward.
Jamba has done his best to convince, but the arguments are so full of flaws that it is laughable, or it would be if it weren't actually happening.
All the trade arguments for leaving are flawed, all the leave EU but buy into the areas we want are flawed.
There is no plan.
Cameron offered an in or out referndum, he didn't need a plan. The question was simple.
A group of people who were not educated on the subject (for this we have politicians) were allowed to dictate. The vote decided that we should leave, and so be it, let's leave.
The problem is that the leavers haven't got the slightest of ideas of what to do now. It's like being invited to do a stunt on a Noel Edmonds show. If we're lucky it'll be OK.
I'm sure we'll make trade deals. I'm sure the economy won't crash and I'm bloody sure that it'll be in spite of and not because of the bloody stupid leave vote. It will because the pragmatic remoaners will get their heads down and make sure we are a success and bog all to do with the shitforbrained leavers.

Want yes, need no.

Where is this list of countries without trade deals, that are thriving? This big long lost of countries without trade deals that proves that we don't need trade deals…? I'm waiting…

Kelvin - ask John McDonnell (the Marxist), he said it was a great opportunity.

Why would I ask that person, who I have no time for, when we have you here to tell us about these great opportunities, and who they will be for… You say there are great opportunities… point out a few, so we can get an idea of what kind of people will be on a position to take them.

EU ties our hands in so many ways, we've always been a square peg in a round hole as we are much more global in outlook than our EU colleagues.

So, we're better at trading with the world than Germany now are we?
When we lose all the outward looking trade deals that the EU has with non EU countries, how will that help us?
In, say, 5 years time, will we have trade agreements with fewer or more countries than we have right now?
I'm assuming you still want us to trade more, not less, with the rest of the world than now…

Captain well just wait and see. Before 2019 the EU is going to look a very big mess indeed. Assess the benefits at that point. Actually @thecaptain a eurozone/EU collapse could have de-railing side effects and could well be the cause of a worldwide recession but imo we are better off out either way.

@mike I'll have a side bet with you that the UK / Oz deal is completed before the EU / Oz one. We cannot formally negotiate deals befrore 2019 but plenty of conversations will be going on.

[quote=jambalaya ]EU ties our hands in so many ways

List them for us please...

that the UK / Oz deal is completed before the EU / Oz one.

Buy you've just said we don't need one. Other than decimating the UK agri industry what's the benefit of a free trade deal with Oz who seem to be much more Pacific Rim orientated?

Before 2019 the EU is going to look a very big mess indeed. Assess the benefits at that point. Actually @thecaptain a eurozone/EU collapse could have de-railing side effects and could well be the cause of a worldwide recession but imo we are better off out either way.

Quite possibly, but how will Brexshit affect our exposure? We had no financial exposure before since we were not a member of the EZ, no change there. We will still be economically tied to our largest trading partners, so no change there. Please help me out.....

Quite possibly, but how will Brexshit affect our exposure?

A resounding win win on the logic scales. Would you like me to explain the origins of the universe next?

Captain well just wait and see.

The bitter and twisted have been given power and the scent of blood.
Anyone that doesn't spend all their free time going to national trust properties had better watch their backs.
That include degenerate hooligans on mountain bikes tearing up the countryside.
BAN THIS KILLER MENACE NOW.

@ captain I think it will mean massive deregulation and a huge cut in the tax base so that we can remain anything like competitive. We will see a huge diminution in workers rights, think no right to redundancy payments, no right to paid holiday as per the US and those sort of benefits left to market forces etc etc - all the sort of stuff to give Jambalaya and Ninfan a wet dream.

As i've mentioned before see:

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/tony_blair_s_rallying_call_for_the_48_his_treatise_on_combatting_brexit_1_4754772

Does anyone know what the 59 most burdensome EU regulations are that we'll be losing (I managed to use the right one) and which will, like totally, turn the country round?

May has committed to ensure all workers rights legislation will be carried over in the Great Repeal Bill. "No right to paid holiday" is yet another repetition of the ludicrous scaremongering we saw during the campaign. Spain hs 19% unemployment so "paid holiday" isn't a big concern there right now.

TMH we need to focus trade globally, a short sharp shock from leaving the EU and a deep recession there will help some of us "getbtye message".

We don't need free trade deals, the vast majority of trade is carried on without free trade deals. However as we are committed to the benefits of free trade we will get deals done. No doubt in my mind the 2020 GE will be fought along lines of who we will gets done with and which is the best party to deliver those.

Gonna give us a list of how the EU ties our hands, jamba?

May has committed to ensure all workers rights legislation will be carried over in the Great Repeal Bill.

Is this one of those "commitments" like the 350m for the NHS one, and in six months time you'll be saying "it wasn't a promise"?

May has committed to ensure all workers rights legislation will be carried over in the Great Repeal Bill. "No right to paid holiday" is yet another repetition of the ludicrous scaremongering we saw during the campaign. Spain hs 19% unemployment so "paid holiday" isn't a big concern there right now.

May has committed to ensure all workers rights legislation will be carried over in the Great Repeal Bill.

and then abandoned bit by bit - she is hardly going to say otherwise is she.

If you want a list you can produce it yourself.

I thought the great repeal bill carried everything over, and we then get to choose to repeal those things [s]we[/s] big industry don't like. So empty promises as usual.

If you want a list you can produce it yourself.

OK, here's the list:
-

Remind me again why we're leaving (alternatively you can supply your own list if you want to use that argument)

No jamba I'm not going to "wait and see" while ****wit moron zealots walk the UK off a cliff waving their ****ing union jacks in some lemming-like mass delusion. Unless and until there's a constructive, credible plan (and there's no sign of one after 6 months) I'll oppose brexit at every available opportunity.

If you want a list you can produce it yourself.

He already did. It's empty. That's the point.

jambalaya - Member

If you want a list you can produce it yourself.

May has committed to ensure all workers rights legislation will be carried over in the Great Repeal Bill

May committed to workers on company boards, for all of about 10 minutes, until she uncommitted to it. Of course without even having manifesto commitments to live up to(*), she can make it all up on the hoof and claim that it's what we all voted for in the referendum.

(*) apart from the crystal clear commitment to keep us in the single market, which has been unceremoniously abandoned without comment.

Anyone that doesn't spend all their free time going to national trust properties had better watch their backs.

If you want a list you can produce it yourself.

Are you JHJ?

You're asserting that "EU ties our hands in so many ways" which is the sort of soundbite that sounds great on the side of a bus, but probably has no substance behind it.

I don't want a list, I want you to name one. Just one. One way that the EU "ties our hands" in a way that affects us negatively. You can do that, can't you?

Because this is the crux of the Brexit argument, isn't it. I've read loads of arguments about how we'll be somehow better off, but it's all smoke and mirrors, grandiose chest-puffing posturing about our great nation based on some halcyon memory of a version of Britain in the 1960s that never actually existed. I've yet to see a single argument that holds water, most of the "problems" trotted out as reasons to leave have nothing to do with the EU in the first place.

Once more with feeling: why are we leaving, how is it going to benefit us?

Just how much does anyone trust a Tory leader with no opposition?
Open Your ****ing eyes. They will lie to placate the **** wits amongst us then when even they have realised they've been shafted there's **** all you can do about it.
"Oh let's make the best of a bad situation it's the British way" **** you,**** that lets fight now.

jambalaya - Member
May has committed to ensure all workers rights legislation will be carried over in the Great Repeal Bill. "No right to paid holiday" is yet another repetition of the ludicrous scaremongering we saw during the campaign. Spain hs 19% unemployment so "paid holiday" isn't a big concern there right now.

They'll not tie the hands of honest Yorkshire folk. Them lot int EU are nickin tha brass just like Scotland, London n Lancashire.

Nipper99 - Member

a free trade deal with Oz who seem to be much more Pacific Rim orientated?

Making our greatest export Idris Elba, and our biggest import cgi monsters.

Cougar I have given examples before, the people asking are just not interested in a reply. Did they read any of the numoerous pieces I have posted ? No its just a "that's written by xyz so clearly rubbish"

Here is an example, directly affects me and my colleagues and nuerous other asset managers in UK and puts us at a significant disadvantage to our US and Asian competitors. As I said before I tried to get my job moved to NYC but was told I'd still be bound by EU rules as HQ is in London

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32013R0575&from=en

If you are remotely interested I will post a more readable analysis from a legal firm

Are you criticising a directive introduced with the aim to make European banks better able to cope with the crisis that you've been predicting will befall them in the near future?

Granted I haven't read all 337 pages

Id be interested to read the other analysis.

(13)
In areas not covered by this Regulation, such as dynamic
provisioning, provisions on national covered bonds
schemes not related to the treatment of covered bonds
under the rules established by this Regulation, acquisition
and holding of participations in both the financial and
non-financial sector for purposes not related to
prudential requirements specified in this Regulation,
competent authorities or Member States should be able
to impose national rules, provided that they are not
inconsistent with this Regulation.
(14)
The most important recommendations advocated in the
de Larosière report and later implemented in the Union
were the establishment of a singlerulebook and a
European framework for macroprudential supervision
where both elements in combination were aimed at
ensuring financial stability. The single rulebook ensures
a robust and uniform regulatory framework facilitating
the functioning of the internal market and prevents regu
­
latory arbitrage opportunities. Within the internal market
for financial services, macroprudential risks may however
differ in a number of ways with a range of national
specificities resulting in variances being observed for
example with regard to the structure and size of the
banking sector compared to the wider economy and
the credit cycle.
(15)
A number of tools to prevent and mitigate macropru
­
dential and systemic risks have been built into this Regu
­
lation and Directive 2013/36/EU ensuring flexibility
while at the same time ensuring that the use of those
tools are subject to appropriate control in order not to
harm the function of the internal market while also
ensuring that the use of such tools is transparent and
consistent

cassettboy vs brexit 😀

https://www.theguardian.com/news/video/2016/dec/27/cassetteboy-remix-the-news-2016-review-special-video

Nipper99 - Member
Id be interested to read the other analysis

+1