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Does anyone think there’s any possible deal that will ever pass parliament?
No. Because any "good deal" is at best slightly worse than we already have. The absolute best fantasy deal we could negotiate is every benefit we currently have only with giving up our say at the negotiating table. For all its failings, parliament recognises this.
Most people on STW think Boris genuinely wants no deal and has a serious chance of delivering it.
Boris wants what's best for Boris. Whether that's May's deal, no deal, Labour's red unicorns deal, remain, reform, a cup of tea and a cheese sandwich... it matters not so long as he comes up smelling of petunias.
People voted to leave but the politicians won’t let them leave, the government are again being told what to do (go and ask for an extension) by the opposition, now they cannot even hold a bloody election ffs.
Why do you hate democracy?
What a complete farce British politics is right now.
Yup. Laughing stock of the world.
People voted to leave
... in an opinon poll.
but the politicians won’t let them leave,
No-one's stopping anyone from leaving. Freedom of movement, the door's thataway. -->
More seriously, the UK leaving the EU is complicated. But that's a longer post.
the government are again being told what to do (go and ask for an extension) by the opposition,
Parliament is sovereign. I thought that was important?
Now they cannot even hold a bloody election ffs.
I don't fully understand it, but I'm sure that election qualification criteria hasn't changed significantly in the last couple of years.
Surely because the vote to leave won then leave it is.
No, because the UK is a representative democracy.
My 2p worth, rightly or wrongly,
Wrongly.
who knows things might be ok
Might be, sure. Eventually. Probably after we're both dead.
or ask to rejoin if its that bad.
Do you think we'll be able to rejoin on the same / comparable terms? We've been hearing totally-not-project-fear claims for the last three years about the enemy that is the EU27, you reckon if we go back cap-in-hand they'll come over all fuzzy all of a sudden because of a continent-wide Vimto shortage? There's a dichotomy here, pick one.
But as the country is so split 50% will be unhappy what ever the outcome is. How do you rebuild from this?
And that right there is the only sensible point in the entire post. Nail on the head, out of the park, well said. We're going to be divided for a long time. How do we come back from this? I've no idea. I've said on other threads that the compromise may be to reform, to look at the reasons why people wanted to leave and address those issues because they're mostly domestic problems. But, eh, it's easier to blame foreigners.
Cougar
Parliament is sovereign.
It may be in England, but not in Scotland.
The Treaty of Union guarantees that Scots law remains in force, and in Scotland the people are sovereign, not the monarch, not the parliament.
Cougar sums it up better than anyone in the last three years right there.
Still 12 points behind this shower of incompetence in the polls. A truly amazing achievement.
That's a reflection of idiots who've been polled. The same ones who voted for Brexit.
You are so out of sync with what's going on. You are not getting Tom Watson, Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart, Swindleson (anyone else I've missed that you've declared fit to run a party?) - you're getting Corbo.
You didn't expect we'd get to this point with Corbyn did you and you have nowhere to go with your rants, accept maybe admit you've been wrong on just about every hysterical prediction.
What drugs are you in Rone, to make you think labour will do well in an election at the moment?
Those polls are not of brexit voting idiots, they are a statistically representative sample of the wider population.
They will only way they might be unrepresentative is that there is an unlikely chance of a wild swing over a short period of time to Corbyn because of this shit show.
Do I still get my blue passport? I've got to renew before end of January.
I also noted my driving licence that I renewed last night is EU flagged...
Just a thought, when the inevitable election happens, labour I think will have to be a full remain party.
Having now come off the fence (slightly) and stopped Boris's no deal Brexit the Tories are going to paint them as untrustworthy with Brexit. So even tho Corbyn wants to leave I think now anyone who wants to leave won't trust them.
Have labour just made a deal with the Tories ?
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1169441207556218880?s=19
The best time to have an election is after 31st because then Johnson has broken his pledge
Before then Corbyn is playing into Johnson's hands?
The best time to have an election is after 31st because then Johnson has broken his pledge
That would be easy enough for him to argue he tried as best he could but Corbyn et al prevented it (followed by the usual bs of not respecting the will of the country).
I can't say I'm thrilled with the prospect of an election any time soon though, chances are it would end up in a Tory win (with a slim majority) or some sort of Tory/Brexit party coalition shit show. I really can't see Labour winning - outside of STWland there's still a huge amount of support for Brexit and enough right-wing media and Facebook advertising to scupper their chances). A Labour/Lib Dem coalition seems unlikely but perhaps the only option for there to be a majority to pass having a 2nd referendum through the house.
Corbyn and the Rebel Alliance are using the fact that Johnson needs an election to force him not to drag his heels over the bill when it gets voted through. It's a decent tactic.
Fun as it would be to let Johnson stew for years it's not really practical. With a minority government we need an election don't we?
The best time to have an election is after 31st because then Johnson has broken his pledge
Before then Corbyn is playing into Johnson’s hands?
Yep, if Boris is pushing for one then the only reason is that he thinks it will benefit him so don't allow him.
Johnson could have called for an election, to get his own mandate, as soon as he became PM. Ignore his requests, get an extension sorted, then look at an election… where opposition parties need to show they have learnt the lesson about working together to disarm Johnson and his team of non-conservatives.
.
Smartest thing Johnson to do now is to offer Scotland independence.
Then after a GE there will be 50+ opposition MPs less.
Wouldn't put it past him.
If we're not out of Europe by 1st November then it will be the fault of everyone except Boris. We voted out, he made a promise and was frustrated by traitors. I can basically write the headlines/manifesto now. He'll be able to include various measures aimed at reducing the role of parliament and will have the backing of a new government to do so.
The best time to have an election is after 31st because then Johnson has broken his pledge
There won’t be an election after the 31st as Boris won’t call one just after he’s been humiliated by being forced to ask the E.U. for an extension. The 21 rebels will be reinstated and it’s uncertain whether a VONC would pass, the best hope for an election before the 31st and after the Benn bill is passed into law.
An election just before we are due to leave is electoral suicide for Labour… it’s Johnson’s best option to use the Brexit Party to his advantage, rather than it destroying his political career.
I’ve just given up, we need new parties and MPs that will actually do the job.
I am surprised by the Lord's tactics. Time will tell.
Fallon is quitting. But Sevenoaks is a very safe seat for the Tories. There are rumors David Cameron might replace him.
If we’re not out of Europe by 1st November then it will be the fault of everyone except Boris. We voted out, he made a promise and was frustrated by traitors. I can basically write the headlines/manifesto now. He’ll be able to include various measures aimed at reducing the role of parliament and will have the backing of a new government to do so.
I think this is actually the plan 🙂
It's going to be best soundbite wins unfortunately an Boris has been on track with the rhetoric from day one.
No solutions or intetntions just leave which was the default or pick up the election afterwards with plenty of ammunition for the campaing and he'll get his five years as PM so happy days.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted:
A senior Labour MP has just said Jeremy Corbyn told him tonight he would NOT allow Boris Johnson to have an election before 31st October https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169365639103991809?s=17
Tom Kibasi (@TomKibasi) Tweeted:
IMPORTANT: My EU sources say if the no-deal bill passes, they will take a request for an extension from the UK as a matter of "legal fact" whether or not Johnson actually sends a letter himself. https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1169402227385077760?s=17
Tom Kibasi (@TomKibasi) Tweeted:
IMPORTANT: My EU sources say if the no-deal bill passes, they will take a request for an extension from the UK as a matter of “legal fact” whether or not Johnson actually sends a letter himself.
And people think the EU is good?? Wtf is this kangaroo bs
Let’s have a people’s vote eg a general election, follow up with a final say referendum, in which the great unwashed will vote in a landslide for a Brexit, then let’s get it done, get out and move on!!
Come on guys!!
Or population vote for Remain and UK stay in.
The EU appear to be taking the will of our parliament seriously, irrespective of whether or not our oaf of a pm can be arsed doing his homework.
How exactly would sir like to 'get it done'?
Seems unlikely
Apart from it won't be a landslide for Brexit, Remain will win so we won't have to get anything done.
And people think the EU is good?
Well they'd be adhering to UK law even if our PM doesn't.
I am surprised by the Lord’s tactics.
The Tory Lords realised that blocking the progress of a bill by being childish pricks wasn't a good look, even for them.
As scotroutes points out the Bill has almost no effect on Boris, or the promise he made to come out by 31st. he will brush it aside as out of his control.
The longer this goes on the more I like the EU and the less I like the Tory party and the British government. Parliament has its moments.
Anyone that uses the phrases "just get on with it" or "just get it done" really doesn't have a clue. They need to go away, look into the complexity of it and then never say "just get it done" every again.
Or Johnson stands up admits brexit is shit and bravely puts the country before his own personal views and the country explodes in confusion as we hate/ love Boris and hate/ love his views.
A senior Labour MP has just said Jeremy Corbyn told him tonight he would NOT allow Boris Johnson to have an election before 31st October
So… Corbyn was one of the grownups after all. I just need to go and delete a hundred or so of my past posts…
Let’s have a people’s vote eg a general election, follow up with a final say referendum, in which the great unwashed will vote in a landslide for a Brexit, then let’s get it done, get out and move on!!
There is every likelihood that this will be the order of events. Brexit won’t necessarily be stopped by a referendum… I still think a Leave win is the most likely result… but that’s up to the voters.
Ooo, a new leave troll.
Anyway, back on track, interesting times, nice to see some plums on the opposition at last, also the EU take on the bill. They clearly don't trust the glove puppet of Cummings either.
They need to go away, look into the complexity of it and then never say “just get it done” every again.
The problem is that such people can’t really deal with complex ideas. At the root of populism is the fact that people just think in terms of simple solutions. They don’t understand detail.
The longer this goes on the more I like the EU and the less I like the Tory party and the British government. Parliament has its moments.
Tory party doesn't seem to look like much of the Tory party any more.
Its just a Tory flag stapled on the front of the Brexit party.
Or Johnson stands up admits brexit is shit and bravely puts the country before his own personal views and the country explodes in confusion as we hate/ love Boris and hate/ love his views.
This would nicely complete the circle, given BoJo was one the biggest players of "liar, liar, pants on fire" promoting Brexit in the run up to the silliest UK referendum of my lifetime.
Corbyn was one of the grownups after all.
Where’s Binners? Honestly though this was always the case if you looked beyond the hysteria. I have to admit though that I’m quite surprised at how ell it’s been done. Not there yet though so let’s not get carried away. Winning an election is going to be hugely difficult whenever it is. The key decision now is whether a labour victory is more or less likely by going early or later. I don’t know the answer to that, but I do fear the opportunity could be lost.
Thanks for contributing @davidbelstein, please do so again. Ignore the troll comments.
Anyone that uses the phrases “just get on with it” or “just get it done” really doesn’t have a clue. They need to go away, look into the complexity of it and then never say “just get it done” every again.
Troll or not the post highlights the problem with a second vote. It's clear there are far too many stupid people who don't understand the complexities of leaving to guarantee a remain win.
Fair play to Corbyn, I've been ultra critical of him in the past but I admire how he's now going about annoying Johnson by not falling into his trap.
It'll be interesting to see what Johnson does next, I fear whether he will actually ask for the extension or if he'll ignore it completely. Doing the latter, whilst clearly illegal, may well appeal him to large parts of his voter base. Not sure of the consequences of him doing this though.
And whilst I'm here, can we not try and put some kind of coalition government together lead by Jess Phillips and Ken Clarke? They seem 2 of the very few sane voices in parliament at the moment.
It’s clear there are far too many stupid people who don’t understand the complexities of leaving to guarantee a remain win.
The temerity of all those stupid people eh... this sort of comment hardens people’s resolve to vote for a brexit, obviously
Winning an election is going to be hugely difficult
I think every one realised that most of the gains that Corbyn and Labour managed in 2017 was at the expense of a Tory leader who "ran" a woeful campaign...It's completely different now.
I don't think it'll be a huge majority, but I predict a Tory Govt with a single digit/otherwise teeny majority propped up by DUP support that will repeal the Benn Bill in the first couple of days of it's administration. I think the last couple of days have slowed things up by a couple of months, but that's pretty much it. The airwaves are full of regretful MPs from both sides wondering aloud why they didn't support the May withdrawal act, as they are now faced by a govt of rightwing ERG supporting idealoges who will stop at nothing and have no compunction at all about going for what they want using any tactic available to them.
this sort of comment hardens people’s resolve to vote for a brexit, obviously
At this point it doesn't matter whether you voted for or against Brexit, the "New Look" Conservative party are going to screw you regardless*
* unless you have a few million stuffed in your mattress, obvs.