So Labour abstains on taking the power away from a Tory government to deliver no deal… and you useless idiots bang on about the Daily Mail, the SNP, and "seeking a compromise".
I apologise for the insults, but this double speak is nuts… the Labour Party strengthening May's hand, at this late stage, is maddening.
Labour are pitching themselves as the compromise party seeking unity between leavers and remainers.
I'm afraid, from my perspective, they're making a really bad job of this...
No deal would be catastrophic for the country and most importantly to May for the tories. For that reason I don't see it happening. Its tory party first for her and although a poor politician she is smart enough to know that a catastrophic no deal would be blamed on her and the Tories and would also split the party
toss up between a second ref and a GE both with a long extension. Second ref my be tacked onto Mays deal - so vote for Mays deal with a confirmatory ref.
Playing chicken with May and her party, by voting for her to keep the power to deliver no deal, is nuts.
A delay is most likely, but if that doesn't happen, and May then does what most of her party want… well that is not some impossible scenario that can be ignored and allowed to happen just because some in Labour want Brexit at any cost.
NI citizens, who would surely be granted UK citizenship if desired
NI is part of the UK, so they already have UK citizenship.
Apart from those who are Irish citizens, of course.
NI is part of the UK, so they already have UK citizenship.
yeah, thats obvious now you say it! my meaning was that UK government would be obliged to resettle them in uk?
No, it's not obvious. It's as if the GFA never happened, isn't it - people still don't get this stuff. If you're from NI, you can be British, Irish, or both.
maybe we should build a wall
rmain one side leave on the other
and argue who will pay for it
Hadrians wall?
So Labour abstains on taking the power away from a Tory government to deliver no deal
Labour is in a deep poo poo at the moment (same can be said of Tory govt). If they don't play their cards well Labour/Tory will be decimated in the next election and may never be a party again. They do know many of their supporters are Leavers don't they. 🤔
toss up between a second ref and a GE both with a long extension. Second ref my be tacked onto Mays deal – so vote for Mays deal with a confirmatory ref.
The idea is to force a second GE to hijack the the 1st ref for a second ref. The long extension is just a hope that people will forget what they are there for. Play the card wrongly and you will see a rise in "nationalism", the wrong type.
Alternatively, Scotland can have their independence and be part of EU, while half of the population(remainders) migrate to Scotland which is close to "home". 😀
Or go for true option of No Deal and rebuild the country again ... hard it may sound but it is for the long term good.
It's in a bit of a delapidated state no?
You could use it as a hard border I mean if you don't want to be in Europe go live top side of the wall , you would still be in engerland the rest could just carry on as if nowt had happened
much cures all the issues except people would moan they have to move and their 5 bed might be downgraded to a 2 bed terrace Win win with a bit of compromise
pretty sure they did something similar in Germany
Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?
I would.
Playing chicken with May and her party, by voting for her to keep the power to deliver no deal, is nuts.
You do realise don't you that labour don't have enough votes to force through an amendment removing her power for no deal? Once again, you're coming from the fictional view that labour has a magic stop brexit button. They're not playing chicken, they would be playing russian roulette. The only way to gain the power you so desperately want them to exercise, is for them to win an election, yet for some reason you seem to be against that, which is very strange.
Just go for No Deal then slowly negotiate the way aroud whatever both wishes (EU & UK), coz nothing is cast in stone.
It is Not as if EU is going to be the silly not to negotiate even after No Deal.
You do realise don’t you that labour don’t have enough votes to force through an amendment removing her power for no deal?
well they probably could if they could stop their own MPs (including shadow cabinet) from disobeying their whip!
I'm quite keen on the partition idea just so long as we can build a bloody big wall between the sensible and "Wetherspoonland".
Molgrips - me too.
One thing that has astounded me throughout this whole thing has been either the total ignorance of Irish History and politics by the Brexiteers, or the fact they genuinely just don't GAF about the Good Friday Agreement, and the very real threat of Ireland returning to the troubles.
The Irish Times has been a good read throughout this whole shitstorm, giving a non-english perspective. Last week they nailed it by saying that from a symbolic perspective, a hard border in Ireland would send out the same message as rebuilding the Berlin Wall.
I just don't think those advocating a hard brexit/no deal (and thus a hard border) get this at all. Mainly because they're not interested or they simply just don't care. Everything is 'a price worth paying' to them
Obviously they won't be paying any of the price, but that’s just detail
Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?
Not yet.
Our families and friends are all still in UK - we're too embedded generally. I think our jobs are Brexit-proof, we like our neighbourhood, etc etc.
I'm an EU citizen anyway (just need to get the passport) - so it might be doable for us, but it would have to be pretty bad for us to leave our aging parents, quit our jobs, and disappear out of our nieces and nephews lives for a few years.
I have called the wall the great north south divide.
which might not work actually maybe we need rich and poor areas....oh shit
chewkw
(I know I shouldn't feed the troll) but you need to know this.
Europe will negotiate after no deal.
But I wonder what the starting point will be? Hmmmmmm.
From the Telegraph Brexit correspondent
HERE
Barnier today stressing that no deal isn't the end of the process. If/when the UK comes back to table after several months of turmoil, £39bn citizens rights and Irish backstop will be price of admission. Back to where we started, in an even weaker negotiating position.
Thats where no deal puts us. Right back here but in a much weaker and desperate state suffering massive economic damage every day.
Nice plan.
Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?
I would.
Yes I would, its called Scotland.
Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?
Nah - I'll be looking to move my country to the EU.
You do realise don’t you that labour don’t have enough votes to force through an amendment removing her power for no deal?
Please read the posts on this. The Cherry "Parliamentary Supremacy" indicative vote was lost by less than the number of Labour MPs following the whip and abstaining. While a different whip may well have resulted in a narrow loss rather than a win… that is the best case for any/all options at the moment… so it would still be an option with a chance in future… whipping to abstain may well have killed it.
Bonners,
Don't be surprised by ignorance.
Did you miss the fact that there was a "what is a customs union" primer for Conservative MPs in the HoC yesterday?
Don't be surprised, just be angry.
Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?
Interesting question. Yes, is my first thought, but any move of that size is a big one, so rather sadly, I may end up still here. If Scotland counts as in the EU, then that changes things.
From my time serving in Northern Ireland, i seem to remember that there are houses and roads which span the border is there not? There are roads where one side is in Republic and other in NI, will you have to show papers to overtake? "Siobhan, grab the international driving permit, i'm going for an overtake!"
What do you do if your farm has fields in both?
Ridiculous situation....
And while you suggest No Deal Brexit may be a good idea Chekw, can you confirm to us which country you are currently sat in and whereabouts your bank account is held?
Who, on here, is going to be picking up the tab?
At the moment, nobody is paying for all this - in terms of "Jesuswept! Have you seen our council tax / NI / PAYE / new emergency NHS/State schooling tax bill?".
If you're young, you're going to cop it.
If you're earning "enough", you're going to cop it (say Very roughly ave. household income above £33,000)
If you're old/low paid/no paid, they might come after you but practically there is not much more blood to be squeezed but you can be jolly sure the creditors will want paying, not just the implementation of vindictive welfare policies.
Perhaps this is the fairer Britain that Brexit promised - not a unicorn powered, better off Britain, mind, just more people bouncing along the poverty line.
Maybe not though. Do (and will) leavers contribute more to the exchequer than remainers?
And while you suggest No Deal Brexit may be a good idea Chekw, can you confirm to us which country you are currently sat in and whereabouts your bank account is held?
UK. GeordieLand 😃
No offshore bank ...
As for Northern Ireland that is the family feud that they need to settle themselves. No amount of world intervention can solve that.
And as someone who now works for an insurers dealing with cross border Fourth Directive claims for accidents all over Europe, i can categorically state that Brexit will mean a hike in your premiums, every lawyer who has a claimant involved in an accident with a European vehicle is issuing premature Court proceedings to make sure they have done so before any no-deal Brexit as the Brussels Recast would end, it means that if they issue afterwards they not be able to enforce the Judgement against the foreign insurers, on top of that, just redrafting our own letters and our agreements with the foreign insurers we act for, has cost my firm millions, so that will be passed on to the customers.
On a tangental note, latest independence polling in scotland is running at 60/40 against. (poll for Angus Robertsons "progress scotland").
Do (and will) leavers contribute more to the exchequer than remainers?
I would guess remainers willl be contributing more. In general a remainer is southern and better educated meaning they are highly likely to be higher earners.
scotroutes
Member
Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?
Nah – I’ll be looking to move my country to the EU.
this - but if independence for scotland does not happen I will be off ( at least partly - I have family in the EU and have a couple of fiddles in mind that could allow me to keep my EU rights)( one family member is a lawyer specialising in european law and others own businesses)
The Cherry “Parliamentary Supremacy” indicative vote was lost by less than the number of Labour MPs following the whip and abstaining. While a different whip may well have resulted in a narrow loss rather than a win… that is the best case for any/all options at the moment…
Minor point, but that isn't quite true. If the TIGgers / CUKs had voted for either the CU or CM2 motion, they would have passed. I know TIGgers are pro-Remain (it's their only policy AFAIK) but if your stated goal is "avoid no-deal at all costs" then maybe there should be some compromise here to avoid disaster?
On a tangental note, latest independence polling in scotland is running at 60/40 against. (poll for Angus Robertsons “progress scotland”).
Scotland has a low population so will they accept remainders from the south migrating en masse to Scotland? Assuming that is the case.
Question for remainers: if we leave without a deal, and you could (this is hypothetical obvs) would you move to an EU country?
Depends, but probably no. From family to job to housing. I have too much investment here
*Tin foil hats at the ready*
There's a comment on the BBC website that says we have actually already left the EU and did so on 29/3/19.There's a court case going on because apparently when the government amended the leaving date to 12th April they amended the wrong statute.
Brexit is certainly eroding my resistance to Scottish Independence, much as I hate to side with those smart-arsed indy lot.
molgrips
60/40 AGAINST, not for.
(I confess don't fully understand that even as someone who doesn't want independence.. Best explanation might be that more constitutional embuggerance is not seen as a fix for constitutional embuggerance)
eat_the_pudding: (I know I shouldn’t feed the troll) but you need to know this.
Europe will negotiate after no deal.
But I wonder what the starting point will be? Hmmmmmm.
You can think of something later ... 😄 Trade deal, security, welfare whatever ...
Barnier today stressing that no deal isn’t the end of the process.
Barnier can take a hike coz he is not going to live forever.
If/when the UK comes back to table after several months of turmoil, £39bn citizens rights and Irish backstop will be price of admission. Back to where we started, in an even weaker negotiating position.
While Barnier focuses on the negative aspects of UK someone is pulling the carpet under his EU feet and that is Not UK. i.e. the 2nd or future 1st strongest economy is pulling the carpet. Also note that some of the EU leaders are annoying the hell out of SE Asia at the moment. If EU want to start a trade war with SE Asia then by all means ...
Thats where no deal puts us. Right back here but in a much weaker and desperate state suffering massive economic damage every day.
If it is a bad deal just walk away. Simple.
I was and still am all for Scottish independence and the devolution of power to the most local level.Why would anyone not be? Same for Wales and NI if that's what they want and maybe then the English regions.How many backstops would that need?