I get that, but the fear tactic of a labour/snp colation was used heavily in england for the 2015 election.
IIRC, it was used by the conservative party during the campaign to elect the UK government.
dangeourbrain
Subscriber
Not really, they made a mistake. I’d personally not hold someone to that forever.In the particular cases i know of first hand it wasn’t a mistake, they genuinely didn’t care enough to vote but they care enough to bang on and on and on about how they/we were robbed. There is no contrition, no recognition that remainers not voting might be just as much to blame as 350 million on the side of a bus (they were vocal about that at the time too). It is as ever (in the case of the two people I work with) all someone else’s fault, going to the pub instead of the poling both had nothing to do with it.
Largely no-one is discussing these people apart from you tbh. But still you crack on with your crusade.
ransos
Subscriber
I get that, but the fear tactic of a labour/snp colation was used heavily in england for the 2015 election.IIRC, it was used by the conservative party during the campaign to elect the UK government.
As a tactic in England, what is so hard to understand here?
I know someone who voted tory because tehy were scared of the SNP having power over labour in coalition
Ironic as we now have the DUP holding the nation to ransom & the SNP looking far more mature than most of our current government!
Anyway the plan to try & seperate the WA from the PD in a vote tomorrow is going down in the commons like a massive turd.........
The idea that labour can’t ever win in england is nonsense.
It is, but it certainly doesn't help having SNP poach 30-odd seats does it?
Ah yes, the Blair years.
You’re right, when the Labour Party is more tory than the Conservative party they do quite well
Well, that's quite clearly silly. New Labour were not more Tory than the current lot of conservative dimwits.
What a steaming pile of horse piss.
Gotta stop you there. How does one pile up horse piss? Isn't it a bit runny for that?
molgrips
Subscriber
The idea that labour can’t ever win in england is nonsense.It is, but it certainly doesn’t help having SNP poach 30-odd seats does it?
It's only in the last 2 elections, 2015/2017 where it's made the slightest bit of difference. majorites are usually higher.
Need to go back to 1974 for labour for it to have affected labours win.
Cougar
Subscriber
What a steaming pile of horse piss.Gotta stop you there. How does one pile up horse piss? Isn’t it a bit runny for that?
Freeze it in blocks, stack it up, then melt it quickly. Et voila, a pile of steaming horse piss! 😆
Frozen horse piss can steam. Triple point and all that. And I used to ride, and have seen it happen. So bucket of piss, freeze, turn upside down… will steam while melting.
Well, that’s quite clearly silly. New Labour were not more Tory than the current lot of conservative dimwits.
And, back on topic, current Labour leader is more Eurosceptic than any Tory PM in my lifetime. Does that make him "more Labour" than our last few Labour PMs? Or "more Tory" than many Tories? All pointless over simplifications when so many different policies need to be taken into account.
For me, as I can't see them revoking article 50, and I think it is highly likely that we wont get a referndum on a remain/may's deal question; I think the pragmatic course of action would be to apply for a long extnension, with the provison that mays deal will be approved once the future realtionship has been agreed by the country. Then there can be a referndum on how we leave wich will fill in the PD. THere coudl be Four choices that are agreed as feasible with the EU from soft as soft can be to as hard as may's deal allows. That way we would respect the 2016 result as most MP are so obbseesd with, we would, in theory, be giving more faith to democracy, and the fate of the country wont depend on which tory nut job comes clawing to the top of the pile.
Well said Kelvin. As someone who spent the first 18 years of their working life living with a Tory government, I know this sh*te about New Labour being worse than the Tories is utter bollo. Boils my p that the anti-Blair rhetoric propagated by the RW press was taken up by the old Trots in Labour to get rid of him on behalf of the Tories! The Tories and their buddies in the press knew they’d never get re-elected with Blair as PM without a stitch up or two, and concerted smear campaign.
So looking at that – the most popular option is Referendum, then Customs Union, then Labour’s alternative plan…
Is Labour's alternative plan the as-yet-undefined magical one where Corbyn waltzes off to Bruseels and negotiates something much better that absolutely sums up what "Leave" means for the entire country?
A bit like Theresa's magical plan using undefined "technology" to prevent a return toa hard border in Ireland?
Honestly, I'd be surprised if Corbyn could even find Brussels, he seems to have an amazing knack of being in some quite out-of the way places when he really needs to be in the action. Kind of like unveiling a statue in Morecambe when the People's Vote march is happening in London.
So the plan for tomorrow is MV2.5, bercow said he will allow it
WA only without the PD
which is an even blinder brexit than MV3 was gonna be, so cant see Labour liking it?
and still includes the backstop that DUP & ERG hate
how is it likely to pass?
Just seen the "britain bites back" Facebook page - comedy gold 😀
Freeze it in blocks, stack it up, then melt it quickly. Et voila, a pile of steaming horse piss! 😆
Good work. I'm glad to see you've put some thought and effort into this.
+1 Bowglie
dangeourbrain
So realistically any vote for SNP is a vote for a Conservative government at national level, until IS, at which point Labour isn’t likely to ever form a Westminster government again without a massive change in voting trends.
This was proved to be utter horseflops by the last election, I can't believe people still spout it. Labour's "anyone but the SNP" campaign up here was a massive factor in the Tories returning 13 MPs- ie, putting them in power. It was vote tory, get tory. Then SLAB declared their 2.8% increase in voter share to be a victory. It was madness, and let's not replace it with some alternative history because if we do, they might well do it again
(I think fundamentally the scottish labour leadership, such as it was, thought that the tories were going to win by a landslide and just didn't care much about who won, as long as they could harm the SNP. Amazingly Dugdale managed to be a worse leader than Murphy, at least he was only passively awful)
Cougar
Good work. I’m glad to see you’ve put some thought and effort into this.
Been stripping paint off doors all day, so had plenty of time to come up with a solution! 😆
Marina Hyde. Laugh or cry, this is all good bits:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/28/spartans-jacob-rees-mogg-steve-baker-brexit
Theresa May offered Tory MPs her pending resignation if her deal was passed, but the DUP trophy brides she spent a billion quid on have still declined to back it. Thus the prime minister crosses into the realm of philosophical paradox: she is too weak to resign...
breakfast television featured quarterwittery from Mark Francois. Of May’s deal, the ERG vice-chair declared: “I wouldn’t vote for it if they put a shotgun in my mouth.” Plenty more where that came from, no doubt. When you think of all the ball-gags that must have been worn by Tory MPs down the years, it really is a tragedy that one couldn’t be found for Mark...
Boris Johnson, who has spent months calling the deal “vassalage”, “slavery” and so on, culminating in a porphyric Telegraph column on Monday in which he channelled Moses in Exodus to demand: “LET MY PEOPLE GO”. Following May’s resignation promise, this same Boris Johnson announced he will now be voting for the deal. Yes – huge soz to the Israelite slaves, obviously, but it turns out Moses is going to try his luck on the Egyptian career ladder after all. Bum around court a bit, knock up a couple of the Pharaoh’s daughters, tell a few hundred off-colour jokes. But you guys go ahead and he’ll totally catch you up. Save him a place in the middle of the sea. If it helps, he’s written two opposing versions of the Ten Commandments. I know! Classic Moses.
Just seen the “britain bites back” Facebook page – comedy gold 😀
Is that the one that keeps running the same poll until it gets the result it wants, and was at one point screaming that only group members (ie, people who agree with them) should post? The fail is strong with that one.
So labour & dup say they won't back mv2.5...
Even when the can has been reduced to a couple of hollow circles joined by tatty strips of tired alloy, she [i]still[/i] insists on hoofing the poor thing Harry Kane-style down the road just as hard as she's f***ing able. Good job for her the EU Can Cruelty Prevention Regulations are yet to come into effect.
Here's an idea ...vote for part A
Wait to see if there's a reasonable part B
Sorry? You mean prepare to Leave (in a manner that cedes all control to the EU) and work it all out later? Screw that!!!
[ sorry - beer ]
Is that the one that keeps running the same poll until it gets the result it wants, and was at one point screaming that only group members (ie, people who agree with them) should post? The fail is strong with that one.
Fairly certain it's a windup
Here’s an idea …vote for part A
Wait to see if there’s a reasonable part B
Part A has the backstop that everyone hates
And I believe it limits the time to vote on part B....
Fairly certain it’s a windup
Possibly, TBH I haven't looked at the page beyond the odd post cross-posted to my feed.
As a tactic in England, what is so hard to understand here?
I find it hard to understand why you would refer to England as a monolithic entity, when you're actually referring to parts of the conservative party and its campaign to be elected as the UK government.
Well May's deal does sound like a Top Gear spin off for endless repeats on Dave....
I've been out all day and didn't get the chance to reply to where I see Monday going.
First up MV3 1/4 is dead, she has lost the DUP as she won't be there to cash the cheque, The opposition don't want to be stuck with a BoJo or Raab Brexit (except Kate Hoey)
So that brings us back to Monday, at this point the least popular options need to be removed.
Flip No Deal around to Completely disagree with no deal.
Move to exclusive options or hybrid options.
Could be:
Apply for extension to resolve a new deal based on Options 1-3
Resolve to put any withdrawal to the People as a separate line
That is if they do not call a Vote of No Confidence after her MV3 and a bit and trigger a GE - new leader and a perfect trap to make the tories elect a new leader (who will have to be so pro brexit they might as well call them Borris Rees Raab) ad then pit them against a more remain electorate and fight this one proplerly.
can't help thinking she wants to get anything across the line ( no matter how badly it &*&*s the country up ) as some sort of perverse lasting legacy. hence the reason to be willing to fall on her sword and rsign if she gets her way.
Load of spineless charlatans the lot of them.
I have not heard one decent interview where any MP has said the UK will be comitting financial suicide and destroying the future of the next generation and the whole thing needs de-railing right now.
hence the reason to be willing to fall on her sword and rsign if she gets her way.
Stolen from another reply, but she fell on her sword and missed. Oh dear.
This one? Nicola Sturgeon at First Ministers questions today "Theresa May must be the only leader in history who has tried to fall on her own sword... and missed!"
I have not heard one decent interview where any MP has said the UK will be comitting financial suicide and destroying the future of the next generation and the whole thing needs de-railing right now.
Try BBC parliament during the debate tomorrow night
I think the TM is suffering from an inability to understand sunk costs. She's spent 2.7 years on this deal, so if it doesn't pass she's wasted her time, as she sees it, so it must get passed. Unlike the ERG, she doesn't have an ulterior motive (except protecting the Party) and genuinely thinks she's doing the right thing. If she really wants to 'deliver the will of the people', she needs to accept that there may not be same support for leaving with her deal in 2019 that there was for the vision put forward by Vote Leave in 2016.
She is literally so crap she can't resign. How crap do you have to be to find yourself in that position?
can’t help thinking she wants to get anything across the line ( no matter how badly it &*&*s the country up ) as some sort of perverse lasting legacy
I've thought this for a long time, her WA is Trump's wall.
can’t help thinking she wants to get anything across the line ( no matter how badly it &*&*s the country up ) as some sort of perverse lasting legacy
like 3 weeks on opiates and not a prune is sight she keep on trying
I think I'd take David Brent over Tess at this point.
Quotes on #Newsnight attributed to "a minister" were fantastic, and can't be posted on here.
So you have me watching Newsnight on Iplayer 😉
Mistruth One
Lothsome says the only way the EU will extend until the 22nd (or whatever) is to vote for the deal
False - it's the only question that Tm asked about it's not the only option on the table.
Edit if I ever look like Bill cash does with a head stuck on top of a fake body with collar done up please end it for now
Oh my that is a fantastic statement, come the end they will all claim they said that!!
I was taken aback! I had to pause, rewind and play again, then call wife into the room to show her (didn't seem bothered)
JRMs fake laugh after Stephen Kinnock railed against UK becoming the cayman islands was particularly nauseating