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[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

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@torsoinalake, the full segment was far far worse than even that clip suggests … sheep farmers should be queuing up to egg Delingpole in the street.

(Oh, but the obvious answer to that particular question was that a trade deal would still be sought by USA to remove non-tariff barriers… especially food standards and breaking up the bulk purchasing power of the NHS.)


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 9:30 am
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John McDonnell is good - I've been to one of his consultation events and he's good in that sort of forum. He is also suited to the long form of interview like Hard Talk where a point can be followed through. I much prefer that in a politician than soundbites and "Line to Take" answers.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 9:41 am
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I watched James Delingpole getting dismantled last night. Absolutely unbelievable that people have been taken in by absolute clowns like him.

Went for a pint last night and was chatting to two blokes I know pretty well in my local (I'd taken one of them down a Dennis Skinner biography to read). Both are retired, both are intelligent, educated, well-travelled and interesting individuals. Definitely not gammons, by any stretch of the imagination. Both, however, are enthusiastic Brexiteers. Talking to them about why, they both list 'regaining our sovereignty' as their motivation for voting leave.

Both then went on to bemoan the absolute shambles that is Brexit. They are both of the opinion that this is the fault of the EU, who are punishing us for wanting to leave. Which I fear is where we are with regards to a second referendum

Interestingly, both are also of the opinion that Brexit 'was never going to happen'. They both firmly believe that Article 50 will be revoked at the eleventh hour, and it was always going to be thus, and this whole thing is just a charade.

I hope they're right.

Personaly I can't see anything other than a totally chaotic 'no deal' Brexit, simply due to the total incompetence and self-indulgence of our politicians


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 10:28 am
 SamB
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Thus sounds wonderful...

I'd love to believe it's true, but remember: parliament have to vote to rescind A50. That requires a motion to rescind, a vote, passing the Lords, etc. It would be all too easy to drift into a no-deal Brexit through inaction 🙁


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 10:34 am
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@zippykona A few politicians have quietly been saying the same thing in the last few days/weeks. They don't have the time to pass all the legislation that's needed to give us a lawful 'no deal' scenario. The EU's no deal countermeasures will probably cover some of this but by no means all. Of course JRM will be along to explain that this is all minor detail and that it's perfectly fine to have no legislation underpinning pesky little things like international trade.

See also : https://news.sky.com/story/ministers-brace-for-brexit-delay-with-or-without-an-exit-agreement-11615621


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 10:40 am
 mrmo
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They are both of the opinion that this is the fault of the EU, who are punishing us for wanting to leave.

And this is where facts ram up against English exceptionalism, the EU will do what is in its interests, what is in the interests of the EU27. To expect anything different is delusional.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 10:41 am
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That's painful. He sounds like a slightly more drunk version of Farage.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 11:13 am
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That he clearly didn't know what his company pays the bar staff that provide him with the life style that he's become perhaps overused to should be the monument to his idiocy.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 11:30 am
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That he clearly didn’t know what his company pays the bar staff

Or perhaps didnt want to admit to it.
Its interesting he is ranting about the Euro whilst his fellow elite brexiteer Dyson wanted us in it. I also like his talk about EU and UK laws. What about if a EU law was first proposed by the UK?

On the continuing theme of brexiteer politicans receiving large sums of cash. Owen Patterson seems to be trying to game the expenses register by having set up a think tank (which surely is an offence under trade descriptions since it consists of him alone) to channel funds through.
So all that appears in the interests register is the think tank paying him 30k for three trips rather than the true sources of his cash.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 11:41 am
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Delingpole up there just sums up where we are with Brexit

hes not alone
theres 100s of highly paid MPs, pundits, Think Tankers, journailists & other brexperts who are similarly bonkers & theres a good 40% of voters who seem to agree with them

I dispair


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 11:51 am
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The whole situation has just been summed up by a journalist on Five Live. When asked about the performances of both May and Corbyn, he concluded:

"what on earth have we done as a nation to deserve these two idiots?"

Quite


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 11:51 am
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Is this plausible?

Only if you think that the grown ups won't allow us to leave in some kind of legal limbo, hampering normally law abiding productive companies from doing business, but opening up opportunities for disaster capitalists to screw otherwise functioning markets and businesses for a quick profit.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 11:58 am
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What about if a EU law was first proposed by the UK?

And many EU laws will have been drafted by British civil servants. I once knew a bloke who wrote some EU law. He lived in Reading. Plenty of Brexiteers who moan about "sovereignty" just don't get it that WE ARE the EU.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 12:16 pm
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The whole situation has just been summed up by a journalist on Five Live. When asked about the performances of both May and Corbyn, he concluded:

“what on earth have we done as a nation to deserve these two idiots?”

Quite

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1088739816651538432


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 12:22 pm
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They know that any free trade deal with the US will come with an insistence that we drop all environmental, argricultural and animal welfare standards, so its hello GM crops, chlorine washed chicken and hormone injected beef. Any other trade deals will involve similar trade offs

Its worse than that, the US uses far more antibiotics in their livestock than EU countries, which as you know the liberal use of antibiotics is causing use major problems with "superbugs" at the moment.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 12:34 pm
 dazh
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basically anarchists, if you want give them their proper name..

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/daibhidh-anarcho-hucksters-there-is-nothing-anarchistic-about-capitalism


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 1:18 pm
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To be fair to Len McClusky, he's an enthusiastic Brexiteer, so its perfectly understandable he thinks Jezza is playing a blinder


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 1:37 pm
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Brexiteers can't even photoshop...

https://twitter.com/Cornwall4EU/status/1088737718140575744


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 2:01 pm
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Just listened to the spoons interview,
could not name a "EU" single law that he objected to
got the facts wrong on the ERM and the Euro
did not know how much his bar staff are payed - as per above

Then rightly claimed to have been a barrister , quick check shows he was never in practice - I wonder why - if you don`t know your brief you will be thrown out...


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 2:07 pm
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Why not keep the Irish backdoor into europe


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 2:37 pm
 dazh
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“what on earth have we done as a nation to deserve these two idiots?”

Voted for them.

Similarly what have we done to deserve brexit? We voted for it.

The people get the government they deserve. One day they might realise this and start thinking about it a bit more.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 2:56 pm
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Voted for them.

Similarly what have we done to deserve brexit? We voted for it.

The people get the government they deserve. One day they might realise this and start thinking about it a bit more.

I sincerely hope you aren't holding your breath.

Much easier to either do what you've always done (or not bother at all) then blame it on a different group in society.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 3:04 pm
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FPTP means you vote for the least idiotic sounding party/candidate out of the top two in your local area.

What is the average voter supposed to do? Voters don't chose the PM from a list of preferred candidates, do they?


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 3:10 pm
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FPTP means you vote for the least idiotic sounding party/candidate out of the top two in your local area.

Sadly its not really "least idiotic sounding" but often more "thats the one I always voted for/bunch of commies/daily mail says he eats a bacon sandwich wrong" and so on.
The thing that pissed me off most about the lib dems in coalition was how badly they handled the voting reform.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 4:04 pm
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As someone who used their union vote for Corbyn, tell me, who was the better alternative? Burnham? Cooper? Eagle? Anyone else from the demonstrably unelectable New Labour old guard?

He was a token candidate and frankly the fact so many supported him, twice, tells you all you need to know about the quality of the Labour Party leadership candidates.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 4:27 pm
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Well Yvette Cooper has been doing a damn sight better job of holding the government to account over Brexit than the useless, beardy allotment-dweller

But then she never wanted Brexit in the first place.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 4:59 pm
 dazh
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Well Yvette Cooper has been doing a damn sight better job of holding the government to account over Brexit

Like what exactly? Just what has she and the rest of the naysayers actually done that has prevented or held up brexit?


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 6:05 pm
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You’re aware of the only amendment to Mays bill on Tuesday that has a hope of stopping a no deal Brexit?

Guess who tabled it?

Clue: they don’t have a beard

He’s ****ing hopeless

Luckily some of his backbenchers(who all know how totally useless he is) aren’t.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 6:08 pm
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To be fair… it has to be proposed by a back bencher to get any Tories on side… and as the DUP will vote against, that is essential.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 6:17 pm
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Ah… if you check twitter to see if JC has voiced support for the amendment… he had a nice curry yesterday … I can't find much more.

Anyway, her amendment is about begging for an extension from the EU… without really offering them a good reason why… I'd much rather we took back control and withdrew our notification to Leave… it is the only way to "take no deal off the table"… everything else is just more can kicking.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 6:21 pm
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FPTP means you vote for the least idiotic sounding party/candidate out of the top two in your local area.

Or worse you live in an area where the same Tory has been the MP for over 20 years and the lowest result he has achieved is 65%. Am I supposed to move to another area make my vote count? Great system.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 7:40 pm
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Binners - the Tory rebels would never vote for an amendment put forward by the Labour Front Bench. So politics dictate it needs to come from back benchers like Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn. Particularly given they both chair Select Committees (and Cooper is not generally flavour of the month with Labour Leaders) - this makes it easy for Tories,LD,SNP to vote for.

I've no idea whether there has been involvement in the amendments from Labour Leadership but I'd be surprised if it had not been discussed with either of the MPs.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 8:12 pm
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Burnham? Cooper? Eagle? Anyone else from the demonstrably unelectable New Labour old guard?

As opposed to what you voted in? The sooner "the middle" wrestle back control of the Labour party the better.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 8:25 pm
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I predict No Deal.

The reason is simple as no one wishes to compromise even until the deadline strikes which will happen naturally ...

No deal is better than a bad deal.

History in the making!


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 8:27 pm
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Act 2 scene 1. The fool enters.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 8:32 pm
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It has been a while, the Kremlin must have been pushing the updates out again.

The small collection of no deal champions are getting ready for their trip back to asylum.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 8:35 pm
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It has been a while, the Kremlin must have been pushing the updates out again.

I use Safari, is there a killfile available for this? I’ve always resisted the temptation until now, but the return of the bot has made the difference.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 8:48 pm
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He's probably right though.

May has backed us (unintentionally I think) into a corner with her "no deal is better than a bad deal" line. There can never be a deal that even a significant minority will prefer to being a member… this was always the case… and politicans are too scared of the populists and press to do what needs doing, and stop the clock.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 8:55 pm
 AD
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Never forget the tories are the party of business...

https://news.sky.com/story/liam-fox-has-extremely-low-credibility-says-unipart-boss-11617518


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 9:03 pm
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Liam Fox has extremely low credibility, says Unipart boss

… absolutely everyone with a pulse.


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 9:17 pm
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The Tory party has always been ‘the party of business’ well that looks suitably ridiculous at the moment

A centrist Labour Party could capitalise on that to a huge degree. Unfortunately it’s got at its helm a man who you wouldn’t trust to run a bath, and who thinks Dianne Abbott is the kind of person you want setting laws, post Brexit.

We’re truly *ed

I know the true believers won’t accept any criticism of the useless beardy *-wit, but any centrist Labour Party would be making mincemeat out of this shambles. Instead...

Anyone heard from him lately? Let me guess... he’ll call for a general election then a vote of no confidence

It’s pathetic! He truly is a waste of oxygen. I’ve got items of furniture that would make a more effective ‘leader of HM opposition’

I’m starting to think he’s actually a hard right sleeper cell who’s been activated to facilitate Brexit

If you’re a remainer and you think Corbyn is on your side, I’m sorry, but you’re terminally deluded. He wants this as much as John Redwood does, he’s just conned a lot of well meaning idiots that he’s on their side

He isn’t!


 
Posted : 25/01/2019 9:30 pm
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