[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

who have most to lose from uncontrolled immigration.

Yunki immigration from the EU is totally unrestricted, it has to be. We can only turn someone away if they pose a clear and immediate threat to our security.

and the EU expands further (some of the candidate countries have average annual earnings of £7.5pa)

What? Like DPRK?

Junky take that razor sharp analysis to Wales as its clearly required, they are clearly not thinking right

I doubt that.

What choice do we have, unilaterally call an independence referendum 😉 Realistically the only way out will be a highly Eurosceptic majority government perhaps post Greek default / full blown eurozone crises

Yunki, enjoy Jambas non-sequiter then ignore as not only do the two sentences contradict each other, but they are both wrong.

1. Immigration from the EU is not totally unrestricted. That is simply a lie that the BS team continue to attempt to fool people with.

2. At the basic level, anyonewho wants to enter the UK still needs to present a passport for security checks by a UK Border Force official. The simple bit.

3. On top of this UK authorities can refuse entry to any EU citizen on public policy, public health or public security grounds.

Immigration from the EU is neither uncontrolled nor unrestricted. It's very simple. Ignore the xenophobic and blatant lies for Camp BS

TMH They have to represent an immediate threat, we deport beggars and they can turn round and come back again. Anyway as above feel free to accompany Junky to Wales or The Potteries to make that point

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/newspaper-deletes-mention-of-organisation-linked-to-brexit-leaders-in-report-on-jo-coxs-killer/

flangaj careful. You must follow what Cameron, Osbourne Blair and Brown tell you that you should do.

Architects and proper thinkers of how to manage an economy through soundbites and thousands of deaths and instability globally.

But hey, carry on with your 'farage and bumbling Boris' comments remain crowd.

I'm confused now.

Nope. And sorry, yes I have the documentation on the next page on the iPad . I am not sure whether you don't know the facts/can't be bothered to check or whether you are just following "team orders". Either way, your response to Yunki is incorrect. Pure and simple.

EU immigration is LESS than 50% of the total. If a points based system is what Brexiters want, this could be implemented anytime do deal with immigration for those coming to the UK from outwith the EU.

1. Immigration from the EU is not totally unrestricted. That is simply a lie that the BS team continue to attempt to fool people with.

2. At the basic level, anyonewho wants to enter the UK still needs to present a passport for security checks by a UK Border Force official. The simple bit.

3. On top of this UK authorities can refuse entry to any EU citizen on public policy, public health or public security

A simple question I have for the remain camp. Let's just say that on Monday 5 million people arrived in England waving their EU passports and wanting to reside in the UK. Could we currently whilst a member of the EU say sorry you cannot come here to stay?

A simple question I have for the remain camp. Let's just say that on Monday 5 million people arrived in England waving their EU passports and wanting to reside in the UK. Could we currently whilst a member of the EU say sorry you cannot come here to stay?

ooohh is that happening? or is it just the kind of nightmare fantasy that keeps bexiters living their lives in desperate fear? 🙄

I reckon Europe would crap itself more if 5 million England football fans got on the ferries on Monday

A simple question I have for the remain camp. Let's just say that on Monday 5 million people arrived in England waving their EU passports and wanting to reside in the UK. Could we currently whilst a member of the EU say sorry you cannot come here to stay?

Can I answer that with another couple of questions? If 5,000,000 EU citizens turned up in England on Monday and we were not in the EU what would you do about it?
Also if current percentages are kept the same, what would you say to the 5,500,000 non EU passport holders that turn up on Tuesday?

immigration is LESS than 50% of the total. If a points based system is what Brexiters want, this could be implemented anytime do deal with immigration for those coming to the UK from outwith the EU.

Talk about missing the point. So you implement a points based system for non eu migrants and have to deny those with skills the uk needs just to balance the books, because you cannot deny the unskilled ones coming from the eu.

I despair when vote remain have the front to challenge out on controlling immigration. You just make yourselves look stupid.

I dedpair

What's the brexit stance on foreign aid too? Is it OK to send 12 billion overseas in foreign aid to some countries but "save" 8bn or so from our eu contributions, or should we pull up the drawbridge and put the full 20 bills into the good old NHS?

for example they think its wrong we give £500m to India

ooohh is that happening? or is it just the kind of nightmare fantasy that keedon'exiters living their lives in desperate fear? 

you haven't answered my question. Could we deny them entry?

In fact, I'll spare you the time as you too know the answer is no we can't. So why don't you liberal lefty lot just own up to it. Vote remain, actually do not care about immigration and i wish they would front up to the electorate and be truthful!

Im sure we could, for a start theyd probably starve to death before they got through passport control

its just such a childish, ridiculous question Im having trouble rustling up the will to answer it

but hey apparently remainers look stupid 😳

Yes and no

EU law does not provide nationals from other EU Member States with an unlimited right to enter or remain in the UK. Most importantly, the right to live in the UK without any conditions or formalities only lasts for three months.218 In addition, the right is subject to limitations “on grounds of public policy, public security or public health”.219 Specifically, the UK retains the right to restrict the freedom of movement and residence of EU citizens and their family members, where their personal conduct represents “a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society”220 and the home Member State of any expelled EU nationals must allow those nationals to re-enter their territory.221

It would be a money-spinner for lawyers!!!

Edit for edit: better to use the time to understand rather than save it and live in ignorance. Remain understand immigration and it's context, they don't need to hide behind xenophobic lies. It's very simple.

Why would we deny them entry. They would be spending money as tourists. Come to see the queen I expect.

its just such a childish, ridiculous question Im having trouble rustling up the will to answer it

Are you a politician?

It's a simple hypothetical question. Could the uk deny entry?

Yes.

flanagaj. Eastern Europeans do not just take low paid jobs. There are a lot of doctors and nurses from the EU. I work with 4 colleagues from Poland within engineering. There are about 180,000 immigrants per annum from EU and 190,000 from outwith. I feel there may be enough room for skilled people from all over the World without leaving the EU. Reducing immigration to a few tens of thousands will massively reduce the opportunities for skilled people to come here whether they come from Poland or Punjab.
I know a few Brexiters, and I must say I have never felt they seem to have the best interests of a qualified doctor from Bangalore close to their heart.

Junky take that razor sharp analysis to Wales as its clearly required, they are clearly not thinking right

Anyway as above feel free to accompany Junky to Wales or The Potteries to make that point

Interesting new tactic.

siiiighhhh

well according to thm's regulations up there, yes we could

dont worry you are safe from the imaginary hordes!

Eastern Europeans do not just take low paid jobs

Yep, 5% of our company are Polish, although 60% of our SW team are now based in India.....

dont worry you are safe from the imaginary hordes!

Argh thanks. I'll sleep soundly.

tbf it must be scary under the bridge 😉

Are you sure?

You seem to have lots of nasty myths floating around in your mind, if I believed half of the stuff, I would be awake all night 😉

Good job that all you need to do is open your eyes!

My wife was arguing with someone on fb about the EU, turns out he didn't actually know that it is a democratic institution and he has a Euro MP...

AH i see you have given up on appeals to authority or accepting you are wrong even though your own post showed it and are simply pointing out other folk have it wrong to
Interesting new tactic.

God, I despair. Of course there are skilled migrants from the eu that the UK needs, just as much there are skilled migrants from outside the eu we need. But why do you want to be shackled with unskilled and uncontrolled migration?

We're not.

Why do you persist with this made up stuff? At what point does it become embarrassing?

Are you sure?

You seem to have lots of nasty myths floating around in your mind, if I believed half of the stuff, I would be awake all night 

Good job that all you need to do is open your eyes!

If you are referring to my question regarding immigration, please send me evidence in relation to your theory regarding controlling eu migration. By the way, I'm not interested in scenarios which require lengthy legal processes with the eu courts to deny entry. I am asking whether uk border force staff can deny entry to eu citizens based on immigration numbers?

. But why do you want to be shackled with unskilled and uncontrolled migration?

Because the pros of the 'unskilled and uncontrolled' immigration outweigh the cons of not having i?

As for your other questions, it's hardy worth an answer. It seems to be a logical fallacy, the name of which I can't remember.

I wasn't.

But ignore scenarios and legalise - lets go back to simple precedent.

Remind what DID happen the last time 5 million people turned up at the UK borders.

I am hoping to display that the fact that less than half of our migrants come from the EU shows that we are not shackled by them.

Surely on a basic level, skilled jobs in the UK are being done by skilled people? Open heart surgery in the UK is not being performed by inadequate Bulgarian cleaners whilst an A* Indian surgeon angrily stamps his feet at passport control.

So who will do the unskilled work in the absence of the immigrants. Certainly not the British unskilled workers. They don't want to or can't stick the work these people do, stuff like field work harvesting vegetables or sweeping up sawdust in the sawmills. Indeed, I was talking to the manager at the local sawmills and he tells me that when the poles first came over they worked like mad, did the work of 2 UK workers. 15 years down the line and they have to use Romanians to do the same jobs now as the Poles aren't interested in the mundane manual work any longer. Begs the question, what happens one day in the (not so distant) future when there is no-one willing to do the most shit jobs. They will still need doing. Would you spend all day every day sweeping sawdust in the heat, dust and noise of a sawmill?

what happens one day in the (not so distant) future when there is no-one willing to do the most shit jobs

Robots hooked up to deep AI. Seriously, it's coming sooner than you think.

I hope you feel guilty welshfarmer, because each of the workers separating potatoes and sweeping sawdust has prevented a triple heart bypass operation from taken place under the watchful eye of a highly qualified Indian doctor!!

it was not aimed at you the quotes are jambys

What about TTIP and they potential issues for the NHS that people think this might have.

If we stay in the EU is there a good chance it will get chucked out as there is some opposition to it, and if we come out will we sign up to it, or its equivalent, and then this will lead to the privitization of the NHS as a lot of this forum fear the conservatives want to do, although in this case it won't be the tories that have architected it, it will have been the EUs fault for having drafted something so dodgy in the first place.

No problem JY. I knew the quotes were not mine. Was not sure if the comments refered to the quotes.

I advise everyone to watch this before voting:

So employers are paying under minimum wage? They shouldn't. If they are paying minimum wage then they aren't too low as lots of British people ARE working for minimum wage.

Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion and the minimum wage is not my point. There are many jobs above the minimum wage Brits won't do, there was a tv piece a while ago with a Polish ladybworking in a shop who said she's here as Brits won't do that work. Ditto farm labouring, too hard too poorly paid (note another STWer posted on another thread something like "yes its far to hard who would do that for the money on offer" - both he and I had done farm work when students).

Welshfarmer you do it as you have a dream, you think it's just for now and you'll go on to do better things.

When you know that's it. That's all you've got. There is no energy. Let's not forget those that came over sought work, sort opportunities.

We can all build stereotypes in many areas and many experiences.

There are lots of people who want work in the UK but either can't find it as there is competition for even basic work or its that **** that you are depressed and can't see a long-term future in it. Controversial but why didn't the laid off miners simple do your sort of work willingly and with gusto? Could you? I couldn't. People who have the travel/cross countries, ambitious feel can. I remember as a young teenager I was stuck working in McDonalds and hated my future then.

Don't knock our working class.

Anyway I'll let the Torybots keep following Dave and co.