(are you looking for the word "caste" rather than "cast" there?)
^^ Erm... I'll have a word with the author.😉
Just been for an ebike ride. Spring just deciding whether to make an appearance, peace and love all round. Didn't meet any other cyclists on the trails mind, only walkers.
But in the end, it’s not about who’s first or who’s last,
It’s about the joy of riding, with no need for a cast.
I don't get the whole 'cast' thing here? Is there a form of transport which requires you to have a cast fitted? Is this some sort of distasteful reference to motorised wheelchairs maybe? Having a snide dig at ebike riders by comparing their steeds to wheelchairs? If so I think it's in very poor taste indeed.
It puts cycling in a favourble light compared to angling.
Because an e-bike is more effishient?
I’ve often wondered how many people who object to e-bikes would happily get an uplift at BPW or jump on a chairlift in the alps…
I take my ebike to BPW and get the uplift. It's great for the pedally top bits and even better for getting from the very bottom trail back to to the van when you're goosed near the end of the day
I don’t get the whole ‘cast’ thing here? Is there a form of transport which requires you to have a cast fitted? Is this some sort of distasteful reference to motorised wheelchairs maybe?
There's no need to cast one type of rider as an other.
I don’t get the whole ‘cast’ thing here?.......
If so I think it’s in very poor taste indeed.
Ouch. Genuinely sorry about that. To be clear, the poem was composed by Chat GPT. I didn't even read it properly and even if I had I think I might have missed the possible offence caused by the word "cast" as in all honesty I thought that was how you spelt "caste" as in a "member of a social order/ sect" type scenario.
I suppose it does illustrate an interesting point about Chatbot AI though.
Apologies once again and I'll play more attention to the output of CHAT GPT from now on if I use it!
Clocked up 23 miles on my Trek Rail on Monday sessioning the runs at FOD. Around 4000ft of climbing I think in about 5 hours, god knows how many runs. My Capra would have been better for GBU as it’s pretty flat and you need to hit to top jumps around 20mph but apart from that definitely the right tool for the location.
A few riders on old fashioned proper bikes asked me what it was like there on an ebike so I happily spent 5 minutes evangelising about them.
Made some new riding buddies, it was almost like nobody cared what people were riding.
it was almost like nobody cared what people were riding.
That’s crazy talk!
it was almost like nobody cared what people were riding.
Links/pics or it didn't happen.
I fell out with a good friend on yesterdays ride because he was on one of those new fancy Forestal light weight eeber things and I was on my trusty old full power Kenevo.
I've also crossed him off my Christmas card list as we're now incompatible as mates.
Ride an e-bike went to ride The Monkey at Cannock on Sunday. Saw more e-bikes than before and some awful behaviour, dreadful braking, ‘Strava line’ riding, pressuring and forcing past slower riders uphill.
The issue is not e-bikes, but a lack of consideration and perhaps a decline in understanding how to ride reasonably with skill.
Thankfully, I don’t ride on trail centre trails that often and you see that sort of thing less ‘off piste’.
Clocked up 23 miles on my Trek Rail on Monday sessioning the runs at FOD. Around 4000ft of climbing I think in about 5 hours, god knows how many runs.
Glad you had a good day out sounds fun. I'm assuming FOD trails are maintained, but that's still considerably more erosion than would happen with a normal bike.
The trails in my local woods aren't maintained apart from the kids who build them. Non of them ride e-mtb's just the usual mix of bikes kids ride. They hang out there digging chatting having a few runs. On the other hand it's the older more affluent e-mtb riders who trash them, an e-mtb turns every ride into an uplift day. Instead of loosing the will to live after pedalling up a couple of times it's run after run.
Does the uplift provider at FoD contribute to trails maintenance?
There’s an uplift at FoD?
How do we feel about peddle and pop bikes?
I tried to be patient about ebikers, and keep my sense of moral outrage to myself and the occasional post on stw but lost it when I saw a few weeks ago that they've trashed half of the borrowdale Bash already. Why? ebikes allow shit riders to get to places they shouldn't be yet and in conditions where the trails shouldn't be ridden (and a normal bike would either push, carry or go elsewhere so not cut the enormous ruts).
This was on a ride where some fat old bloke on a 10 grand electric motorbike went apoplectic in outrage at me for passing him (with loads of room) as he nimminied his way down the first descent.
"You need to look on Strava! I'm faster than you you ****ing **** **** **** look at you with your extra pivot pulley wheel ****". Ok mate.
Sorry, room 101. Get in the sea.
The issue is not e-bikes, but a lack of consideration and perhaps a decline in understanding how to ride reasonably with skill.
I caught up with an old friend at the weekend who said that quite a few colleagues had purchased ebikes on the works cycle scheme and were going out at the weekend as a group.
He also said that none had ever cycled much before, one quoted as saying “ tried it once and was too much like hard work “, referring to MTB’ing.
If this is widespread, it’s inevitable that problems are occurring.
My main interests are road biking and running (yeah, I dunno why I'm here either).
I'm so glad battery power isn't ruining those for proper riders/runners just yet.
I caught up with an old friend at the weekend who said that quite a few colleagues had purchased ebikes on the works cycle scheme and were going out at the weekend as a group.
He also said that none had ever cycled much before, one quoted as saying “ tried it once and was too much like hard work “, referring to MTB’ing.
If this is widespread, it’s inevitable that problems are occurring.
That's one way of looking at it. Another is that it's absolutely brilliant that loads more people are discovering our sport and getting out and enjoying themselves, facilitated by the accessibility of eBikes. I only ride 'amish bikes' btw - for now, but think eBikes are great.
ebikes allow shit riders to get to places they shouldn’t be yet and in conditions where the trails shouldn’t be ridden
I could understand that could happen, but amy other rider e-bike or otherwise, is welcome to pass me - as I am slow nowadays. I also avoid black trails or options since the summer due to the increased chance of
head injury.
“You need to look on Strava! I’m faster than you you * * * * look at you with your extra pivot pulley wheel ****”. Ok mate.
Sounds like trackdays where some talentless arse with a fat wallet and a Nissan gtr thinks he shouldn't pull over and let the rusty mx5 past because his gtr can go round the ring in under 8 minutes (in the hands of someone with talent)
Plenty of large egos on the race track,sounds similar to above.
Glad you had a good day out sounds fun. I’m assuming FOD trails are maintained, but that’s still considerably more erosion than would happen with a normal bike.
Big assumption there fella.
1. FOD trails are maintained by a brilliant group of volunteers, wish I could join but I live 3 hours away. I did used to run the trail building club in my local forest so have put more than my share of time and money in over the years
2. Yes, I’m doing more runs than people on non-e-bikes but I’m not spinning up the rear tyre on the climbs, I ride as smoothly as possible, and I’m pretty much not touching the brakes for most of the descents.
3. There is an uplift service there for people on regular bikes.
Remember that time when "all the gear and no idea" didn't exist before e-bikes? Halcyon days.
I caught up with an ebiker on a trail the other day, he shat it when I said hello. Strange 🤷♂️
Was chatting with an ebiker out on my local trails the other week and he said that since he chipped it, he can hit 40mph!
A neighbour has an ebike so he can keep up with his very fit teenage sons.
Saw three teenage lads on lightweight electric MX bikes today. Never saw them on the trails but did see some bike wheel spin marks on a trail not too far from where I saw them.
Was chatting to a hiker at the top of one of the hills in Dunkeld a few weeks back. He mentioned that he was thinking of getting an ebike like his pal's called a Surron, he was surprised when I pointed out that a Surron was not technically an ebike but an electric motor bike so wouldn't be legal to ride on mountain bike trails.
My 60 year old mountain biking pal says that ebikes are cheating.
Was looking in a Trek shop today at the new Trek EXE, it was lovely, it was also over £7k.
I have been out cycling locally 4 times in the last 7 days on four different bikes, the most fun I had was on the one that had no motor, no suspension and only one gear.
I still fancy an ebike but can't afford/justify one right now.
Favourite term for a non assisted push bike is "Flintstone bike" 😅
My 60 year old mountain biking pal says that ebikes are cheating.
I don't understand this "cheating" notion. Who are they trying to win against?
Is being on a bike in the first place not cheating when you should be running?
People.
My pal has ridden an ebike for reference. He just thinks you should work for your fun on the bike.
Besides it's his opinion and I respect that (but not necessarily agree with it).
I don’t understand this “cheating” notion. Who are they trying to win against?
Is being on a bike in the first place not cheating when you should be running?
People.
themselves possibly? I used to enjoy the challenge of a big, steep climb under my own power. Not anymore because I’m a fat, lethargic knacker with lungs made out of crisp packets since Covid. I can understand the mindset though. Don’t necessarily agree with it mind
Edit - Wonder if this is the longest running thread to be posted in the wrong forum.
the most fun I had was on the one that had no motor, no suspension and only one gear.
The only bike I have and won't be changing any time soon. However, I don't care that other people are riding different bikes and 'cheating' with suspension, gears and even electric motors as they are riding what they enjoy and I am riding what I enjoy.
What I don't understand is when some on here say its a good thing to get more people out onto the hills. It's very noble and all that but don't you go riding to get away from everyone? I hate bunches of loud, brash blokes, and ebikes enable them to get to spots that would otherwise be largely inaccessible to them. At least not so frequently.
I hate bunches of loud, brash blokes, and ebikes enable them to get to spots that would otherwise be largely inaccessible to them
This is the biggest issue with ebikes. It allows people who wouldn't put the effort in to ride in general or couldn't ride at that speed to do so. The second issue is with their proliferation it make mtbing more exclusive in a financial sense which is the wrong way to exclude people. Arguably that boat has already sealed unless you're already in and know how to sort bikes out cheaply.
He just thinks you should work for your fun on the bike.
Fair enough but that's just like, his opinion. The idea that effort makes it more worthy is how we have all this pro racing stuff driving bike development and marketing, making cycling a weird lycra-clad wattage-blahlah or dorky full face and goggles high-fiving thing in the eyes of the public. It doesn't help things generally.
Bikes should be fun like they are to a 5 year old, nothing more complex than that. I like ebikes because they get us closer to the point where bikes are a fun way to get around for all and that includes e-MTB as well as Tern GSDs.
It’s very noble and all that but don’t you go riding to get away from everyone?
No. I go riding because I like riding my bike, there being other people around doesn't bother me.
I caught up with an old friend at the weekend who said that quite a few colleagues had purchased ebikes on the works cycle scheme and were going out at the weekend as a group.
He also said that none had ever cycled much before, one quoted as saying “ tried it once and was too much like hard work “, referring to MTB’ing.
If this is widespread, it’s inevitable that problems are occurring.
I keep bumping into emtbers on my local trails in the Peak, who don't have the faintest idea where they are or where they're going. One guy on a brand new Kenevo, I think, in brand new riding kit admitted he had a route on his brand new Garmin, but didn't know how to follow it. He didn't know where he'd started from, except 'there was a station there'. I don't really have a problem with that. He seemed happy enough, we pointed him roughly towards more trails and off he went.
I suspect it's somewhat similar to the changing hiker demographic round here, where you see more and more people wandering around Kinder, say, in non-technical casual clothes or sports clothing following stuff on their phones. Folk who presumably discovered the outdoors over lockdown and have kept at it since.
Maybe if I were mountain rescue, I'd have a slightly different attitude, but my basic take is that it doesn't make any difference to me as an individual, they're presumably out having a good time.
I'd guess there are two vague types of emtb riders, those who've ridden mountain bikers before and now ride e-bikes and those who've discovered mountain biking through emtbs.
Wasn't there a Scottish University survey recently - last year - that looked at whether emtbers were less clued into the outdoors in the sense of knowing about navigations, rights of way, trail etiquette etc.
I haven't bothered reading this whole thread but almost all my local trail building / maintenance is being done by e-bike owners (who also own normal bikes). The ebikes are essentially self-uplift bikes, for steeper trails where you have to push back up (and also for official uplift venues so you can ride up faster than on a normal bike).
This is the biggest issue with ebikes. It allows people who wouldn’t put the effort in to ride in general or couldn’t ride at that speed to do so. The second issue is with their proliferation it make mtbing more exclusive in a financial sense which is the wrong way to exclude people.
The problem with e-bikes is that they empower people to go riding whilst preventing people from going riding, because there are simultaneously too many of them about and not enough? 😁
We could say the same of full-sus bikes, or bikes with gears even. They allow us to tackle terrain we wouldn't otherwise be able to experience, but all that comes at a price premium. How many people on this thread with their noses in the air would pay more for a fork than some people might pay for a car? Do we think people shouldn't be riding black routes or equivalent unless they're on a BSO?
It's gatekeeping. This thing that I enjoy, well, you can't, unless I deem you worthy. Otherwise you're not a real [cyclist | mountain-biker | gamer | Star Trek fan | My Little Pony collector].
Someone wants to get to the top of a hill so badly that they're willing to spend several grand on a bicycle, have they not earned that right mentally just as much as someone blowing it out of their arse on a BSO has done physically?
Arguably that boat has already sealed
Probably for the best, it'd sink otherwise.
I'm guessing the report suggests they aren't as in tune with the outdoors...but I'd argue that to be the case for a wide range of people using the outdoors now, not just a category of biker (and there are plenty of bike riders not as in tune either).
^
I think early ATBs were criticized for getting people into the hills who wouldn't have hiked there otherwise, people who didn't have the hill sense etc.
I saw a few weeks ago that they’ve trashed half of the borrowdale Bash already. Why? ebikes allow shit riders to get to places they shouldn’t be yet and in conditions where the trails shouldn’t be ridden (and a normal bike would either push, carry or go elsewhere so not cut the enormous ruts).
Have you got any links or pics to this damage?? Struggling to understand how ebikes (with 500 watt motors) have created so much damage unless you're talking about electric motorbikes (5000+ watts for Surrons etc). How are they cutting enormous ruts??
I hate bunches of loud, brash blokes
Me too.
We get quite a few groups of them on regular bikes on my local trails during the summer.
I ride at less busy times and on lesser used trails during the tourist season to avoid them.
Seems a better solution than bitching about what type of bike they're riding on here.
It’s gatekeeping. This thing that I enjoy, well, you can’t, unless I deem you worthy.
That's a fair point.
I used to think that anything which encouraged more people to enjoy the outdoors had to be a good thing. More people gaining an appreciation for the things I enjoy is probably going to help me too. Now I'm not so sure. But how much of that is just gatekeeping? I'm not sure.
One issue is that I'm becoming increasingly aware that these eMTB rides don't appreciate what I appreciate. But that probably is gatekeeping and in general I don't really mind what other people enjoy. Occasionally I'll see someone on a motorbike out on the trails. Despite that being illegal, it doesn't really bother me and I'll usually give them a cheery wave. The noise is a temporary inconvenience, but there aren't enough of them for it (or the damage) to be a real issue and anybody who is annoyed at them isn't going to be annoyed at me. But that doesn't seem to be the case with eMTBs. There are quite a few, the effect on the trails is becoming noticeable and other trail users who are annoyed by that will just be annoyed at MTBs in general, which could end up impacting my much cherished access rights.
Struggling to understand how ebikes (with 500 watt motors) have created so much damage unless you’re talking about electric motorbikes (5000+ watts for Surrons etc). How are they cutting enormous ruts
weight and trail conditions. ebikes in very soft ground will make a mess. the spikeyer the tyre the more mess. with a normal bike you`d be walking or going somewhere else.
It’s gatekeeping.
Is that a problem? To expect a minimum level of knowledge in order to progress?
You don't turn up to 10' drop without doing smaller drops first. Same principle. If you enter via the ebike route you are bypassing a path of learning. You are buying your ticket in with no idea. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant but you can't jump to the same position but ebikes can give people the feeling that they can jump ahead.
