Mind you there are two things that irk me about ebikes!!
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill - leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
Topping strava segments, its quite obvious when they are on ebikes, but not declaring it. Some one in our local village, out of nowhere, has taken a lot of quite difficult uphill KOM’s, off road. No history in cycling until last year.
Anyway, I have gone off topic, apologies OP.
I used to tow the kids with the regular bike but an E-bike makes it a tad easier.
Got a lid, but no pads or gloves. A even a little fall could seriously ruin the day.
Not being judgemental 😆
When I ebike Strava flags my rides as "it looks like you were in an ebike, do you want to change the ride" so not doing that is dicks being dicks because they are dicks.
In todays edition of I’m Rich, You’re Poor:
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill – leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
Maybe it's an age thing but I don't even hate the illegal ebikes that the delivery folk ride about on. Better than a stinky van.
Not experienced antisocial ebike riders on the trail yet so maybe this might change when someone is buzzing my back wheel.
I like the term "eeb"
"Acoustic" or "neeb" not so much.
Thanks for that BWD, gave me a laugh 🙂
Got a lid, but no pads or gloves. A even a little fall could seriously ruin the day.
Not being judgemental 😆
No offence taken. 😁
TBH he has gloves but generally chooses not to wear them. Pads? What are they?
If he falls & gets scuffed he doesn't complain. Just gets up & gets on with it.
Goes to rugby training all year round (in Aberdeenshire) and only ever wears shorts. Like his brother.
I guess when he's better (& faster) and tackling bigger stuff we'll upgrade his protection.
This thread is an excellent advert for riding on your own.
Yep, although being autistic I don't have friends anyway so not a choice I have to make! But I think for me the ride would be ruined if I had to leave at exact time, wait for people, try to small talk with people etc,. My riding is from the door and I don't stop until I get back again.
The few times I have been going same way as an eBike I quite enjoy trying to keep up on the hills and find them a very good pacemaker.
I'm just travelling back from holiday in Yunnan Province in China. The capital, Kunming, has several DH type trails where you pay locals with minibuses/vans to take you up to the trailhead.
Normally bikes are fine as you're mostly pointing downwards, from 2250 to 1900m. You could even ride from most places in the city to where the uplifts run from.
But then there's Dali, where the local riders, older riders than Kunming, have been examining local hiking trails on a mobile APP and checking out which are rideable. Almost every mountain there has multiple trails, of which most have proven rideable. Some (ecological) adjustments have admittedly been made in places.
My 150/160mm budget (heavy) trail bike was a slog to push up many inclines, starting from a point at 3000m. About 50% of the riders were on ebikes. The majority without ebikes had flown/driven in on holiday for the first time there. I can almost guarantee the second time they'll come ebike equipped. Or rent from the local Dali Enduro MTB hostel.
I think, if you live in a pretty flat region, or with short trails, that you'll tend to run that polarizing argument through your head. Me, I'd live and work in Kunming, and go on riding holidays in Dali. Have a different bike for each purpose (finances providing) The riding in Dali was just too inconvenient normal bikes. Even the lightweight carbon Bronsons I picked up and wowed at.
Ebikes work on ebike trails. Work for older, or injured people. I hope that latter group doesn't have to wear special badges on normal trails to justify their choice. But, likewise, a team moves at the speed of its slower member. Or you ride alone.
In todays edition of I’m Rich, You’re Poor:
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill – leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
What a bizarre post. Says more about the chip on your shoulder than anything else.
What are ebike trails? If you are suggesting anything that goes upwards is an ebike trail then I think you are missing a large part of the point...unless people are now building ebike-specific trails and I've missed the fanfare about this.
Rider ability seems to be missing in all these arguments, for some people, the actual effort and skill involved in powering themselves up/over/across/down things is equally as rewarding as just riding the bike. For other people, having a bit of assistance helps them to get the most out of their riding...for others, they just want an ebike and other just don't want an ebike...each to their own, doesn't really make any odds if you are out riding your bike.
Ebike trails-
those which used to have corners but which became straighter from strava timing uberlords and now are even straighter with the popularity of shit riders on Ebikes.
Shit bikers are shit bikers regardless if they have a motor or not. I guarantee you the vast majority of people who complain about ebikers messing up trails dedicate zero time themselves to trail maintenance and dig days.
I say this as a non ebiker who does 1 day a month of trail maintenance.
people have been cutting corners before ebikes + strava were even invented.
nickfrog
Free MemberWhat a bizarre post. Says more about the chip on your shoulder than anything else.
Not at all, I have no issues with ebikes. But if I had one I wouldn't be telling my mates to stay at home until they were able to buy their own
^^^ he didn't say that, did he? You added the "were able to buy their own".
Towing mates on normal bikes uphill – leave them cycle it themselves, or leave them at home until they get an ebike as well…
people have been cutting corners before ebikes + strava were even invented.
Since Herbold at the WC DH in 1990, allegedly.
When asked in an interview with Spoke Magazine in 2012 if he had in fact cut the course in 1990, Herbold replied; "Not according to the UCI, and that's what matters."
HBcutthecoursein1990.com was a great site. RIP.
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<div class="bbp-reply-author d-flex align-items-center flex-wrap"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.8rem;">I’d 100% take the e-bike, easy answer. I guess that makes me a true rider?</span></div>
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What a ridiculous thing to say
It is and it’s about as far into trolling as I’d go. It was tounge in cheek or a dig at the ‘real riders’ BS you get from occasional trad bike / neeb riders.
For me there is a huge difference but weird relationship between real bikes and real riders but there are 2 reasons for me to refer to real bikes as real bikes and eMTB as something else.
Obviously an eMTB isn't a real bike as evidenced from the fact it has a motor. It's about as much a REAL bike as a Vespa or track racing is a real MX/Enduro (lets just say Dirt Bike) bike.
That has no bearing as to if the eMTB is being ridden by a real (MTB) rider... (any more than if Bernard Kerr ceases to be a Real MTB Rider when he rides MX/Supercross etc. or even if he decided he was going to do track IOM TT etc) or even is Guy Martin/Barry sheen not a "real rider"... (I have not exhausted my knowledge of motorbikes)
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MTB like "dirtbikes" has a broad church of disciplines. (DJ/XC/Trail/Enduro/DH)
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The second reason is the inordinate amount of eMTB riders who use disparaging terms to refer to real bikes and their riders and are of an opinion everyone wants and should ride an eMTB exclusively unless they are just to poor to bother speaking to.
This same group making the disparaging remarks also seem to be those who tend not to know when they need to STFU and they make the Jehovah Witnesses and scientologists/TV licensing look positively self aware of what "no thank you goodbye" means.
I've had multiple encounters with eMTBers both riding my eMTB or one of my real bikes.
When on a real bike I've had a few who seem determined to tell me I should be riding an eMTB and can't take "no thanks" or "I have one in the van I was riding it this morning" as a hint I don't want to talk to them about why I SHOULD be riding an eBike.
Typically
"You should get an eMTB"
Response: "I have one thank you "
Q "Why aren't you riding it"
A "I am choosing not to/I was riding it earlier/I'm riding with friends on real bikes today"
Q: "Do you think you won't get as good a workout on an eMTB" / "Is the battery flat" / you can get them on finance
A: "I don't care I just don't want to discuss it with you thank you"
Continues gradually more Spanish inquisition / Evangelist
"What eMTB have you got?" "You should get a XXX"
A: "As I said I don't want to talk to you, can you please stop hassling me"
I've never had anything like this from any other type of MTB riders/owners. The closest might be "mate you are going to snap that frame" or that sort of genuine concern (I do enjoy riding inappropriate bikes sometimes) not you should buy a XXX bike.
On the other side when riding the eTMB I often get other eMTBers making disparaging comments about people on "real bikes" (assuming I don't ride real bikes as well). This is often uncomfortable in the same way some old "Gentlemans Club" making disparaging comments about women would be. (The whole I'm a bloke so I should go along with it thing) or even the "What (football) team do you support" type "you're a bloke so you must follow football unless you are ..."
I don't remember any "real bike" rider ever making disparaging comments about me riding a eMTB to my face. I'm sure a few have said something to their mates or whatever but I don't really care about that.
To extend that analogy .. I'm a bit sick of the whole "paupers/peasants/dinosaurs" thing... and either having to defend why I'm not riding an eMTB right now or why I don't exclusively ride eMTB.... so I prefer to use the term "real bikes" and I feel anyone takes offense at the term real bikes is likely in the small minority of eMTB riders I really don't care if I offend.
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You need to learn to say "goodbye!" with a cheery wave rather than engaging with hostile idiots.
(You should do that on the bike, as well. 😁)
My experience was completely different OP.
I have ridden an MTB since 1987 and have ridden with the people I ride with since the mid-Nineties and some from 2014 onwards. All of them without fail are supportive and encouraged me to continue riding.
Since my subarachnoid haemorrhage in July, when I have ridden trail centres - have only ridden red trails at maximum and although this changes the nature of some rides as I avoid black routes/options now.
I can’t wish for more supportive friends in general and riding mates in particular - but riding an e-bike has kept me cycling since heart failure, stroke and haemorrhage has impacted me.
A few years ago I had abuse aimed at me and my eMTB by "Real Riders" but it seems to be a thing of the past now. I get asked for a tow or a push occasionally and will sometimes chuck out a self-depreciating remark when passing a group on a fire road climb "'Scuse me lads, milk float coming through" or similar. I've never heard a conversation of the like that Stevextc is describing and if one of my riding buddies came out with it they'd rightly be abused for it. I really can't fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
I really can’t fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
every time i attempt read one of his essays, this springs to mind:
Didn’t Happen of the Year Awards (@_DHOTYA) / Twitter
I really can’t fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
Maybe they all group together. 😂
I just skip over anything he posts TBH.
I've not got time in my life* to read that longwinded crap he waffles on about.
* I'm retired and have all the time in the world for doing other stuff.
Real bike and real riders 😀
I have to say that as someone who has been riding off-road on a mountain bike for 36 years - if anyone doesn’t think I am a real rider, they can seriously do one.
I love what this activity/sport has done for me and it was hard enough to realise that an eMTB was the way forward for me. Getting out with my riding mates - including my brother and more lately my son among them - it means more to me than it even did before.
If anyone else has an opinion on me riding using an eMTB they can get stuffed. Best to not articulate it where I witness it as one of the things my subarachnoid haemorrhage has done is shorten my fuse - so some verbal abuse would make it’s own way back.
I think it’s great that you’ve found a way to continue riding after a life altering event. I’m my personal opinion you’re exactly the type of person that should have an eBike. It’s enabled you to carry on doing something you clearly love to do.
I exist and I ride, therefore I am a real rider.
My e-bike exists as a 2-wheeled pedal cycle .. therefore it is a real bike.
This is possibly a real low point in my online posting history.
I mainly ride my ebike in the UK but mainly ride my DH bike in Austria. I’m now totally confused as to whether I’m a real rider or not?
I really can’t fathom why he seems to attract so many dicks.
One day, if he's lucky, he might think 'oh. Maybe its me' if he can get over his belligerence to find some self-awareness.
This has been a very strange thread from the beginning and has become even stanger!
It's as if it's groups of 13 year olds bickering but it can't be as they mention owning cars, vans and £5000 ebikes!
Do people actually speak to each other like this when riding a bike around the woods?
This has been a very strange thread from the beginning and has become even stranger!
It's odd what goes on inside people's heads, but isn't usually vocalised. I suspect on the trail, most of this stuff happens in thought bubbles rather than aloud, which is probably just as well...
First 2 pages of this months magazine were advertising Ebikes, with Danny Macaskill being shown to love his. And articles throughout also advertising them. First pages are prime real estate.
Makes me wonder what full members think when their copy drops through the door. Do they read the whole thing, or skip those stories and pout at them instead.
I'm not bias, I even read the stories about all things roadie.
I don't notice adverts in magazines so if I was getting the paper version I wouldn't have noticed them...bike manufacturers are pushing ebikes as they are the next big thing, so there will be plenty of advertising going on. They do allow people who wouldn't bike to get into biking and they are another nice toy for those already biking to buy.
(I've one bike and I'm not looking to buy anything new for quite some time, so advertising is wasted on me...I'm also of the opinion that you ride what you want, so it makes no odds to me if you are on a bike or an ebike - I'm not going to keep up with you on my bike anyway, so just enjoy the ride!)
I'm completely lost on most of this page of this thread as well...we seem to have gone from listening to chat about people's opinions about people's opinions on ebikes to now about something in someone's head...a bit like Tarantino's Dusk to Dawn - all fine until that scene then it all goes very odd!
I'm just in from an afternoons riding with my mate on his ebike. I'm normally (badly) aspirated.
He's really been ill and presently going through intense chemotherapy. So he's got an ebike as its enabled him to keep riding on days when he feels up to it. I can't tell you how much its doing for his mental health and positivity through this really difficult time in his life.
He's very aware and considerate of the fact that I'm blowing out of my arse on the climbs.
All that matter to me about e-bikes at the moment is that its made it possible for me to carry on riding in the hills with my mate. We've had a great afternoons riding in the sunshine, under blue skies
I just thought I'd share that bit of positivity with you 😀
Makes me wonder what full members think when their copy drops through the door. Do they read the whole thing, or skip those stories and pout at them instead.
You called 🙂
I used to post in the Bike forum quite regularly. I haven't done so for ages and the reason is basically the rise of eMTB threads. I don't really have anything against those who ride them. I'm very much an "each to their own" person and I'd certainly never say anything negative to anyone riding one. But, for me, they basically represent the antithesis of mountain biking and the fact that they have proved so popular made me realise that I have very little in common with what I used to think of as my fellow mountain biker. In fact, these days, the MTB often stays in the shed and I'll reach for the trail running shoes instead. I'm sure eMTBs are a big part of that decision too.
When it comes to the mag, I do notice the adverts and I'll often open the mag, read the first couple of pages, then chuck it on the pile with the other unread editions. I'll probably downgrade my subscription to a digital-only one when the time comes and again that's mostly because of eMTBs.
To the person who said that we'd all be riding one in the end; I understand what you are saying and maybe one day I will appreciate the fact that they exist. But I suspect not. If I reach the point where I'm no longer physically able to ride my mountain bike I'll probably just hike instead. The fact that it is human powered has always been a key component of my enjoyment of interacting with nature.
Hiking does seem a logical progression for flintstone bike riders who don't want an eeb.
They seem to spend a lot of 'ride' time pushing a bike uphill.
Hiking does seem a logical progression for flintstone bike riders who don’t want an eeb.
Ive heard uplift days with chairlifts and trucks, especially in the mountains make ebikes redundant and a lot more fun on the downhill. Plus we don't have motor, battery and obsolesence issues like ebikes have.
And less environmental issues too...
You need to learn to say “goodbye!” with a cheery wave rather than engaging with hostile idiots.
Funnily enough IRL I'm known to be sickeningly polite ... a bit of a laugh when someone is hostile you wish a cheery "well enjoy the rest of your ... " and you can see they want to be continue to be rude but they just wobble their jaw because they are just going to look more stupid/hostile...
BUT the thing is these idiots aren't trying to be hostile any more than jehovas witnesses are (we may view it as hostile, they are just being evangelical and trying to save us from something they believe we don't)
I was invited on a group ride on Wednesday morning with a group of guys I’d never met before. I was a bit hesitant, but it’s always nice to meet new people so I gave it a shot.
It was suppposed to be a 5.30am sharp start, so I got there at 5.20 so I wasn’t the new guy holding everyone up. At 5.40, eight riders set off in all. A couple of teenagers and more than a couple old enough to be their Dads.
The ride was at a place I know like the back of my hand. Tough, natural singletrack. First climb seemed fairly slow pace, then I proceeded to have a huge stack on a track that according to Strava I had ridden 118 times before. Straightened my bars, dusted myself down and apologised for holding everyone up. Proceeded to the base of a DH track and a guy I’d never met before took my bike off me and set about my bent derailleur’s limit screws to ensure I didn’t wreck it and could get some usable gears for the rest of the ride. I excused myself from the dh and videoed the step down and tabletop into shark fin.
At the top of the next climb I noticed one of the guys was on an ebike.
Someone commented I was on a hardtail.
We rode for another hour or so. Talked shit. Went to work/school. I rode about half the distance I’d normally ride.
Great morning… even if I did total my helmet and graze most of my limbs..
I think that’s the way mtb should be. Technology was irrelevant.
One day, if he’s lucky, he might think ‘oh. Maybe its me’ if he can get over his belligerence to find some self-awareness.
Nope, clearly not.
I exist and I ride, therefore I am a real rider.
My e-bike exists as a 2-wheeled pedal cycle .. therefore it is a real bike.
Its a non sequitur ... depending on what you want to define as a real bike. (alternative names are available I'm happy with any terms that are not derogatory to non electrically assisted bikes or their riders. What bike you ride has no bearing on if you are a "real rider"... riding (whatever you like) does...
You ride therefore you are a real rider.. unlike someone who has a garage full of bikes and hasn't ridden any of them in months or years and is a "real bike collector".
N-EEB is about the least derogatory term I see used but even that seems to try and switch the reality as if a non powered bike needs qualifying or is some sort of legacy. I have a Kindle for example .. I still refer to my paper books as "real books" (even though I read FAR more on my Kindle than I do real paper nowadays).. that doesn't make me a not real reader.
Its a non sequitur …
It was poor shit-posting from me that's all. 'I exist therefore I am'. The whole 'real rider / real bike' thing is impossible to take seriously, please don't : )
I have no more to add on this one : )
I used to post in the Bike forum quite regularly. I haven’t done so for ages and the reason is basically the rise of eMTB threads. I don’t really have anything against those who ride them. I’m very much an “each to their own” person and I’d certainly never say anything negative to anyone riding one. But, for me, they basically represent the antithesis of mountain biking
"I'm not racist, but..."? 😁
This entire conversation is getting weirder by the minute. Unless you're in competition, why should anyone care what someone else is riding? It just feels... I dunno, infantile, like abusing the kid at school who got a BBC when everyone else had C64s or Spectrums. Who are any of us to proscribe arbitrary rules as to how someone else chooses to enjoy their life? As soon as you out yourself as being slightly different from the established norm, people are elbowing each other out of the way in their haste to tell you how wrong you are. Eg, mention you're vegetarian and count how many people immediately pile in to squeal about teeth and depth perception and with no concept of irony "preachy vegans". Or look at the outrage over legalising same-sex marriage, anyone would have thought it was about to be made mandatory. Christ, you can't be a 'real' fan of Batman unless you own all the comics.
It's Othering, it's toxic and frankly it's weird. What exactly are we gatekeeping here? Why? These things that other people do in a slightly differently manner from you, this affects you how exactly?
Funky posted earlier, "I’m my personal opinion you’re exactly the type of person that should have an eBike." Which is great and all but, why isn't the type of person who should have an eBike simply "someone who wants an eBike"?
These things that other people do in a slightly differently manner from you, this affects you how exactly?
I obviously didn't explain myself very well. It doesn't affect me at all. I treat somebody on an eMTB in the same way as I would someone on, say, a horse. I am quite happy that they are out enjoying themselves and would always wish them well. I just don't feel that we are taking part in the same activity and we probably have very little in common.
I just don’t feel that we are taking part in the same activity
Agreed but it is still very similar, its not that far apart is it?
and we probably have very little in common.
Thats quite a leap, both of you may have St Etienne's Foxbase Alpha on vinyl and enjoy the collected works of Dan Brown.
