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Just downloaded it , I hope people get behind it and get it downloaded .
Yep downloaded it. Although as I'm not seeing anyone bar the missus and the consultant until next Tuesday it'll not be doing much.
What are we saying to kids/teenagers about not riding in groups of more than 2 when they are spending the day together in class with said riding buddies? I have to say that for the first time I think this is a Scottish rule that has gone a bit too far just so we can be better/safer than England. I agree it was sensible to standardise the 6 person rule.
Ignore above, just read on the other CV thread that up to 4 other households for outdoor exercise.
STW really is the font of all knowledge!
That means I can only meet folk from one other household in my garden, but up to four others if we are exercising.
Do drinking games count?
LD
Conflicting info on Scottish Government website, as it also says this on its most recent update :
Meeting others: indoors and outdoors
You are advised to meet people from no more than 1 other household at a time indoors or outdoors
Iain - that’s ‘meeting’ people. Wondering if exercising outside with others is classed as different in the guidelines? (I’ve not checked, being lazy, but had planned to meet 5 or 6 households in a couple of weeks time for a ride).
^^^ yes, that is for meeting people outside. Elsewhere on the website it says
Exercise and activity
You may meet outdoors with members of up to four other households at a time for exercise or activity.
Braw!
Is the 4 household guidance for scotland? I can't find it in the updated routemap.
Supposed to be spending a weekend staying with friends at their place on Arran next weekend, that's that ****ed now.
Bloody Weegies. 😆
I wonder if now is the time we’ll look back on and go but why didn’t they listen to the warnings...
Or if we do something now the opposite will happen, we go but we gave up that for no reason...?
Everywhere seems to be on the uptick, I think I read the highest case figures in Scotland since March? something needs to be done to avoid the ‘second wave’ being as bad/worse than the first.
But, yes, it will be inconvenient....
Is the 4 household guidance for scotland? I can’t find it in the updated routemap.
"You may meet outdoors with members of up to four other households at a time for exercise or activity."
Everywhere seems to be on the uptick
Sweden's not, seems their much maligned sustainable approach wasn't a bad shout after all.
Sweden’s not, seems their much maligned sustainable approach wasn’t a bad shout after all.
Sure, but you just have to look as this thread to see how it would play out here.
Everyone is an exception...
I'm not sure we're that different tbh, there always seems to be this view that Europeans are so much more intelligent than us, it's a bit clichéd really, and nonsense in reality.
And yet, here we are. On the uptick...
Real clever...
I was referring to our population in general, not our government, as I'm sure you know.
We generally did as we were told during lockdown, but then have had pretty mixed messaging, and as such lots have decided to plough their own furrow.
A sustainable simple message at the start, as the Swedes have done, may have worked here, but hindsight ye know.
Dammit, still can't figure this out. Above link from tenacious_dog is now saying the following - "You may meet outdoors with members of one other household, up to a maximum group size of 6, for exercise or activity."
However on this page - link
It says this - "to take part in organised activities, indoor or outdoor, for those aged under 18
to take part in outdoor organised activities for those aged 18 and over
to take part in organised exercise" in list of exceptions.
So what is "organised"?
So what is “organised”?
In England they say 'covid secure' which is an awful phrase (as its rubbish!), but I have understood it to mean having risk assessments etc which would be required as part of a club etc organised activity. Most people don't write a risk assessment and set up hand sanitizing stations etc when just meeting their mates (well, thats not true - I always have some in the van!). I agree though, it's vague.
in the context of Scottish Cycling, the 'organised' activities are formal club activities for clubs with an appointed COVID coordinator, which is a new and formal role, involving a training piece, and responsibility around track and trace.
So what is “organised”?
In Scotland that is 'Covid Secure' (what a BS term!) with a formally constituted organisation such as childcare, football club, cycle club etc.
e.g. I was out with 12 BB's on a ride on Saturday - we had risk assessments, our child protection officer is now a Covid officer, we have track and trace in place properly, we took facemasks, handwash etc, our risk assessment was clear bout basics like each boy having their own snack and waterbottle, leaders were all over keeping them a bit apart and we met outdoors. All part of a formal group via BB's - not just pals who think 'yeah, we will do some paperwork'
Once again, the message is confused and misleading. We know that much of it is pushed out in a rush but it's obvious no one reads the stuff end-to-end. It can certainly be argued that maybe the rules surrounding recreational cycling aren't the most important but it does cause me to wonder how many other inconsistencies there are in other parts of the rules / laws / guidance.
Of course, I also expect Scottish Cycling to be peddling the suggestion that only activities organised under their umbrella are allowed. It's a blatant power grab over areas of the sport where they don't currently exercise any control.
'You may meet outdoors with members of one other household, up to a maximum group size of 6, for exercise or activity.'
The 4 households for exercise has gone.
Yep. Guidance updated 14th Sept (today), last update was 10th Sept. So we're now at the point where you have to check the guidance every day just to make sure you know it, and even then it's not internally consistent. The FM said last week that the safety message was becoming increasingly complex. This isn't helping, but then neither is the whole pub vs home argument, nor allowing gyms to open etc.
None of these things are particularly enforceable restrictions. Tbh. I tend to think at the minute it's currently more of a heads up to say just chill out on what you are doing just now.
Tbh the numbers being up at the minute is more of a function of a much better testing system. So this 'uptick' isn't really as bad as the first one, purely just being down to us having a more accurate picture of what is actually happening. So numbers at the minute aren't really comparable to March/April.
Still a bit of a learning experience just now to understand what it actually means, now that we have a bit more of a complete picture of what's happening.
Will take us a wee bit to understand that I think.
Till then I think it's right to be cautious. And we kinda need to put in place 'social' restrictions first before targeting businesses again, because sans furlough etc, shutting them again will an utter clusterf...
So I think we should afford them a little bit of leeway on the confused messages at the minute. I do agree it's a bit confusing. But it's very easy for things to go exponential. We should have locked down earlier hindsight tells us last time. So the cautious approach is correct.
If these measure don't chill the numbers out, I'd expect more to be coming.
Tbh the numbers being up at the minute is more of a function of a much better testing system. So this ‘uptick’ isn’t really as bad as the first one, purely just being down to us having a more accurate picture of what is actually happening. So numbers at the minute aren’t really comparable to march.
Probably bears repeating.
The level of excess deaths is probably a more reliable indicator of where we are, the only problem with that is its a trailing indicator.
I think the current restrictions are proportionate versus implementing another total lockdown
Aye, agree with both of the above, caw canny as my granny would've said.
Tbh the numbers being up at the minute is more of a function of a much better testing system. So this ‘uptick’ isn’t really as bad as the first one, purely just being down to us having a more accurate picture of what is actually happening.
My wife is on the team doing the NHS's ICU/hospital stay statistic for the Scottish government - hospital stays are increasing too.
https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/
Aye can see the hospital numbers on that page. up to 8 in ICU (did get down to 1 couple of weeks ago) and indications that numbers might be starting to move. still quite slight at the minute, but the indications are there to back caution. in the 240s the other week, sitting 250s touch 260s in hospital at the minute. Excess deaths are up 3 weeks on the trot too.
eldest is off for his second test in 4 weeks tomorrow. no runny nose this time just a cough.
Mrs has an email from NHS saying that she's not to have bluetooth on whilst at work. App ain't for nurses then....
I think this, from another thread, is a really good somethingion (credit to poly) :
Look at it this way, the more people you are in proximity to, the more likely you are to get a TT&T phone call telling you to self isolate. If you are lucky you’ll get a test and result quickly so that it’s perhaps only 24-48 hrs you are not allowed to leave the house, but it could be several days or even two weeks. If you’ve not been stuck in your own house for two weeks – take it from me it’s not worth meeting the second group for!
Why not? One household to another - and then riding at the weekend with others outside, socially distant, seems to be ok?
I share @LD frustration - we're stopping kids who spend all day indoors together in school from riding in small groups outdoors at the weekend.
Mrs has an email from NHS saying that she’s not to have bluetooth on whilst at work. App ain’t for nurses then….
The app is for nurses, and indeed everyone. But as per the instruction in the app - if you are wearing PPE or some other mitigation (like you’ve left your phone in a locker room and aren’t actually being exposed to the same people the phone “sees”) you should turn Bluetooth off to avoid false alerts.
@poly mate is s paramedic he was told not to download the app. I presume a officious individual not interpreting what you say correctly. But then he's not been tested once not even precautionarily.
Restrictions arriving this Wednesday then, fantastic.
Restrictions arriving this Wednesday then, fantastic.
I would rather have restrictions than Cv19.
Announce tomorrow or Wednesday and in place for the weekend?
What are we thinking?
Curfew or closure of hospitality sector.
Some sort of restriction on non-essential travel.
No inter-household mixing.
They should focus on the things that really make a difference: indoor mixing but given past form I wouldn't be surprised at draconian travel restrictions.
Yay.
Meant to be spending 10 days over the border from Sunday, in an AirBnB in the tweed valley and a few days on Arran, all solo with solo bike rides...
Aye, my plan to cycle and wild camp the Hebridean Way this week is looking a little shaky.
Shame cos cycle touring (IMO) is pretty low risk.
Agree Spin.
If they tell me we can't go 20 miles for a day in the hills, but pubs stay open, quite frankly they can poke it up their arses.
I think Scotroutes calls it unfortunately. How to police gatherings is a difficult one though.
I think this is going to be the popular reaction - even among those who are moderatly interested in outdoor exercise:
Agree Spin.
If they tell me we can’t go 20 miles for a day in the hills, but pubs stay open, quite frankly they can poke it up their arses.
All a bit shit really as they were quick enough to lockdown Aberdeen , yet there appears to be great reluctance to do the same on central/west coast area.
"Leaked document" on the Guardian suggests a 2-week Circuit Breaker arrangement during Scottish mid-term holidays. That seems like too little and too late to me.
All a bit shit really as they were quick enough to lockdown Aberdeen , yet there appears to be great reluctance to do the same on central/west coast area.
Track and Trace data suggests 2 different transmission causes and therefore fixes.
Since we're told that the virus works in approximately 3 weekly cycles I can't see a 2 week circuit breaker working it's not long enough. I suspect that the scottish government know this. Perhaps we're being cued up for a return to lock down during the half term.
Or was it punishment for much of Aberdeenshire not voting SNP? 😂
I think scotroutes has it pretty much. The lack of travel might sting - we are due an Argyll bike tour in a fortnight...
I think it'll be a return to travel restrictions, which is completely pointless while folk sit in pubs 🙄
Maybe back to takeaways only as well then...
Yep, agree Matt. Hope the travel restrictions aren’t severe but I think it will be. Back to no gnar, no far, no cat?
I was in Aldi this afternoon as it’s usually quiet then and it was mobbed! Panic buying mode is back.
Back to no gnar, no far, no cat?
I know it can be caught by tigers but this is getting a bit extreme
Hope the travel restrictions aren’t severe but I think it will be. Back to no gnar, no far, no cat?
I'm a dog person anyway. 🙂
More seriously I think they'd have a tough time justifying the gnar criteria at least. And the others too in areas with low numbers of cases.
Track and Trace data suggests 2 different transmission causes and therefore fixes.
but the fixes arn't working when you look at the numbers a more local lockdown rather than a broad brush attack
theaccountant
Free MemberOr was it punishment for much of Aberdeenshire not voting SNP? 😂
Not even in jest, there's enough bloody idiots that swallowed that one hook line and sinker
That’s a troll post anyway as Aberdeenshire didn’t have a local lockdown.
😂😂😂 I semi corrected my original comment and changed ‘fat’ to ‘far’ but missed the feline bit.
If they tell me we can’t go 20 miles for a day in the hills, but pubs stay open, quite frankly they can poke it up their arses.
Pretty much this. I've followed the lockdown rules religiously, but if they think I'm going to forfeit doing very low risk activities outside, whilst other people are allowed to get smashed in the boozer, then frankly they can do one.
The tattie holidays are over about three weeks anyway so might be targeted as a circuit breaker. But as said,if they think I'm not going cycling/walking/running/camping during my holidays so they can keep pubs and restaurants open they can poke off.I have had the pleasure of a test this term because of a pub I have never set foot in serving underagers.And can I just wish good luck to officer Dibble finding me in the Angus Glens/ Cairngorms if I don't want to be found.
It's been a rubbish half term, using the break as an easily enforceable lock down period and keeping pubs open but I can't camp in Galloway to decompress is a bit rubbish.
Wonder where Johnson and Cummings are holidaying bet your arse it's not at home.
If they tell me we can’t go 20 miles for a day in the hills, but pubs stay open, quite frankly they can poke it up their arses.
Yup. Everything is just beginning to get back to normal for us so I'll be mightily pissed off if everything gets shut down again whilst the pubs stay open.
While I agree with everyone's frustrations, it's clear from the news that many of the clusters we are starting to see are wilful ignoring of rules when it suits individuals.
I'm therefore going to have to accept, and will do, whatever is announced today.
Even personally we're seeing acquaintances and family not isolate while waiting for test results, others gather for one last ride in a big group, family staying with other family across multiple houses - so never more than 6, but overall 12 people sharing a weekend, parties at student halls with no intervention by security etc etc.
I think nationally there's a weariness to the restrictions plus UK wide a 'Barnard Castle' attitude growing.
Sorry Matt, I disagree.
If the same folk* I see every day walking past my house to go to the pub can drink until 10pm instead of midnight, then I'll be going out doing my thing in our lovely quiet countryside.
* Not youngsters btw
Had a family friend put up a whole spiel on social media about her friend who was born with a heart issue, and how selfish folk we're putting her at risk.
The same friend who she was out drinking champagne in a restaurant with 2 nights previously.
I've played by the rules as much as I can since this shit started, but I'm slowly getting pissed off being lectured to by folk that don't and never have looked after their own health. I'm with P-Jay now tbh.
Mrs is off this morning to do a bank shift covid testing, be interesting to see how it goes.
I hear you nobeerinthrfridge.
I do think there's a significant difference of heading to isolation, genuine isolation, and heading to a busy pub...
Maybe I've always been too compliant...
Family next door to me had a massive party the day before the new house guest rules were announced. Not great, but not illegal.
But ever since then they have constantly had numerous visitors, with cars constantly parked outside. I'm getting a little pissed off with it tbh.
The thing I can't understand is that it's a large multi generational family that lives there. The old boy must be in his 70s, bame ethnicity, doesn't look healthy at all. Ie numerous factors that suggest he's at higher risk than most. Do these people simply not care?
If the same folk* I see every day walking past my house to go to the pub can drink until 10pm instead of midnight, then I’ll be going out doing my thing in our lovely quiet countryside.
This.
It was all wrong opening pubs first to begin with, if they get another free pass they can **** right off. There are other people who can operate safely and actually do something positive for people being ****ed over whilst the pubcos can make some coin.
The document NS refuses to deny exists looks a bit March-with-pubs-open. Thing is; most of us on this thread have followed the rules since March but if you look at the last page, there are a few posts suggesting an unwillingness to follow a new lockdown that certainly seems unfair. So what chance have they of reducing the R rate?
Personally I am concerned about any lockdown over winter. In march I reacted early ( I'm a careworker) and began to self isolate a couple of weeks before lockdown. I had the best of intentions but it was a mistake, after 3 months I was really missing friends and loved ones, and craving real social contact. I was living in a small village, it was great for getting out walking or cycling with little chance of meeting anyone, and the weather was great.
Now I live in Fort William. There will be more people around wherever I go so a bit of a higher risk . I am very reluctant to cut off the limited and sensible social contacts I do have. I don't go to pubs anymore, but one of my buddies does he picks his pubs carefully and only has a couple of pints. It seems to me that there is less risk associated with biking locally, walking or even bivvying than there is in getting drunk at a party or in a pub. People need to take responsibility for their own behaviour and the attendant risks.
From a personal perspective I will be gutted if they close gyms again after having waited ages for them to reopen.
In my local Xercise4less gym most people seem to be abiding by the new rules, but some members aren't.
I've got a week booked in a self catering cottage down in Galloway for the October half term.
I'd honestly be tempted just to go anyway. I've stuck to the rules but watched others just ignore them. Across the road we have a uniform couple - a police office and a fireperson - they ignore the rules more than anyone else nearby.
I feel like a mug sometimes, telling my five year old daughter she can't have friends over in the house even though she sees them at school.
If pubs stay open but they stop me travelling then they can piss off.
while i'm against ignorantly going against the rules - the gov really are ****ign this up - if they consider keeping the pubs and other high risk recreational activities open but saying we cant travel to do the safer recreational activities then they have lost all credibility in my book ..... it just shows its all about the £
If pubs stay open but they stop me travelling then they can piss off
Yep, this nails it for me too.
Agreed!
If the pubs stay open and other activities are curtailed they can beat it!
I hope that Sturgeon does not make new travel restrictions and although I have a bit of fatigue at looking at the detail it seems to me the recent clusters are due to international travel, poor practices in hospitality industry and idiots not following guidance - so if the "evidence based practice" is still being done then thats the areas where more restrictions should come not travel withing Scotland
Well the news is out. Very good speech and what seems proportionate and sensible targeted restrictions with most importantly the rationale for them and an explanation of the fact its all a balancing act.
No travel restriction bar "please do not car share"
I particularly like that children under 12 and 12 - 18 have less restrictions not because they cannot catch it or pass it on but because for them the balance is different
So looking like pub curfews and no meeting people in someone's house are the main rules.
Good to see that the travel restrictions haven't come in.
what seems proportionate and sensible targeted restrictions
Really? I've come away with the notion that the government(s) has given up and isn't taking the issue seriously anymore. So much so, I've basically decided that neither should I and I'll just apply my own sensible restrictions and ignore any guidelines with which I disagree in future. We'll be back to square 1 in a couple of weeks.