I occasionally camp, however this summer we are thinking of doing 12 days around France MTBing and plan on possibly camping. I was thinking about investing in a down sleeping bag. What do you reckon? I have an old cheap £20 Millets special however I am always COLD COLD COLD And struggle at night when camping, end up sleeping in lots of layers. I was looking at this:
http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16320&category_id=253
The short one is only £85. I don't want to spend bucket loads as I don't camp often but I'm wondering if it's an invest that will pay be back well. Since I had my down coat I am converted. Or are there other brands out there for a similar price that I should look at?
Thanks in advance.
I've got the Skyehigh 800. Superb, you won't regret it
in true stw style i'll question why you need a down one. 🙂
good synthetics pack nearly as small, are nearly as light, will keep you warm even when damp, and will probably last longer too. the snugpak stuff was always quite good.
Well that's what I was thinking Del to be honest! However with the normal synthetic (or my cheap bag!) I have never been warm, now I KNOW down is great and works for me, so that was my reason for thinking about getting one. I won't be out in the pi**ing rain (ie bivvying) it will always be in a tent or which our cheap £40 has always been really good and rain proof.
If you say synthetic what would you recommend? I HATE camping becuase I get so cold at night that's why I thought the alpkit one as it's reasonably priced.
I''m not that bothered about it packing super small either, howver small is always useful for storage and travelling but I won't be on my bike carrying everything to be self-sufficient!!
I have 2 snugpaks - very nice - toasty too
Sounds like this holiday is going to be a blast 🙂
OMG just loooked at Snugpak website I don't even know where to start!? Suggestions please to fit criteria above!
Allthepies .. are taking the michael!!!
🙂
just have a look at the temp ratings. for what you want - 3/4 season i expect will be sufficient. that should take you down to about 5C IIRC? it's tempting to go for a 4 season bag, but from my POV it's almost as bad to be too hot, especially in a nylon tent, as it is to be too cold.
snugpak ones are 'issue' now too, i think, so you may find them quite cheaply if you have a good look around.
My summer one is softie terra - says comfort down to 2oC - very light and perfect for me right into autumn
how about that:
[url= http://www.snugpak.com/index.php?MenuID=114-119&ItemID=192 ]make sure it's long enough though[/url]
**settles down to read replies with interest**.
I'm after a new sleeping bag too. Slight hijack, but are the mummy ones as restrictive as they look?
I better you all take the p*** if I ask this next question ..... mm scared now ....... oh I'll just ask it!
What about pillows? I've alwasy struggled to sleep with a rolled up fleece anything camping/travel worth it out there? or do you just pack a normal pillow? Thanks.
Pillow is very important to my nights sleep
I have an inflatable one from decathlon - £5
Just inflate about half way and it very comfortable - weighs nowt
HTH
I've had some very expensive down bags in the past, used for proper winter Bivis/camping and high altitude summer climbing in the alps.
Down has drawbacks, but not for what you are suggesting, summer in France. Down is not recommended if it's going to be very wet and with no opportunities to dry/air the bag, not France in summer then.
When using a down bag for long periods, you need to be able to hang it out to air, because it gets damp with body moisture and/or condensation. Damp/wet down is next to useless.
The bag you linked to is more than you would need for France in Summer, but it is easier to pull down the zip and air yourself than try to get warm in a bag that is unsuitable. Alpkit stuff is good for it's price IMO.
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/ultralight-inflatable-pillow-34692307/
this one but does get inflated anywhere near shown in the pic
Munqe-chick - Member
...What about pillows?...
A pillow slip packed with all my spare clothes always worked for me.
B.A.Nana so are you saying down would be ok for the reasons why I wanted it? Got a bit confused then.
Edit; just re read makes sense they look toastie mm maybe it is q birthday present idea.
I got a pillow from the £1 shop!
Inflatable, fleece coating, 80 grams and a pound!
Sleep much better now than when using a spare fleece or rucksack.
M-C I'm saying that IMO the bag you linked to would be perfect if not a little OTT for France in the summer, but it's better to want to unzip to adjust your temp than to be cold and looking to increase your warmth with extra clothes etc. That bag is 3 season and France in summer, assuming campsite camping, it's going to be more than suitable. Down bags just need a bit of care, looking after. Being able to air them occasionally, hang them out, is ok. 12 days without airing, it will get a bit clammy, prehaps.
I found myself asking the same question (down bag???) for the gap between my issue "green bomb" sleeping bag and the superlightweight issue jungle bag. Ideally, something that was as warm as the bomb, but lighter than it would be ace.
Down just seems the obvious choice, but choosing one that's a good make and long enough for me seems almost impossible. Didn't Tesco do one a few months back that had a -5 comfort rating?
for years I made do without a pillow, but recently bought one of these which fits into a sleeping bag hood[url= http://sports.shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=moon+pillow&_sacat=382&_odkw=3%2F4+pillow&_osacat=382&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313 ]http://sports.shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=moon+pillow&_sacat=382&_odkw=3%2F4+pillow&_osacat=382&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313[/url] good for campsites but I wouldn't bother for serious biviing or climbing in the alps.
Oh those pillows look quite good and cheap. But it's okay as I won't be serious biviing or climbing!! WE'll have plenty of time to air a down sleeping bag in the Alps I think. MMMMM birthday present for myself still a possibility!
If you are getting cold make sure you have a good insulating layer between you and the ground - a thermarest type thing. Those foam rolls aren't much cop.
Also sleep in some base layers - like HH lifas - they should keep you warm.
would you wear a fur-coat?
cos down's basically the same.
if the animal welfare guff doesn't bother you then ignore the hell out of me.
what you sleep [i]on[/i] is just as important as what you sleep [i]in[/i] - don't sleep on an airbed if you want to be warm, cos it's a lot of air to warm up, and that air is in good contact with the cold ground.
thermarest type camping mats are much better.
You don't say if you are camping with a car or not? Down has the advantage of a lighter weight (for more warmth) ratio and the ability to pack down small. But is generally more expensive. If you are carrying your kit on your bike (or yourself in a rucksack) down has a big advantage, but if you are in a car you can save yourself money by just buying a cheaper bulkier synthetic. Actually, most my friends now just take a proper double duvet for car-camping! And definately a normal pillow if you're in a car. If not, a down jacket stuffed inside a fleece makes a pretty good substitute.
mickey74
I think opinions on mummy sleeping bags depends on what kind of "sleeper" you are. I have a small one but since I sleep on my side curled up it doesn't affect me. If, however, you are someone who likes to sleep spread out they are a nightmare (I've heard) and you're probably better off getting a more box shaped version.
Another possibility could be something like this:
[url= http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/sleep-systems/trek-and-travel-sleep-systems/ventra-down-comforter/product ]Thermarest sleep system[/url]
I think it looks pretty interesting, unfortunately I need a -10°C rated sleeping bag pretty much all year round so would be too cold for me.
If you go for a down bag - and for warmth to weight, I would - get a waterproof stuff sac/dry bag for it as well. Same applies to a synthetic, but with down it's crucial to keep it dry or it simply won't loft - think porridge in a nylon sack...
I tried out my new down bag in the back garden recently, it was a little cold so I jacked it in after about 4 hours.
The amount of condensation on the bag and in the bivvi bag was pretty surprising to me.
But it seems you can't get a synthetic bag under 1kg that's any way warm?
I've never found a down bag that I could keep dry when bike camping. Possibly the tent is too small and it's condensation.
I'd like a synthetic - something like the Buffalo system looks like it would work, but I haven't handled one. I suspect it may be too bulky for biking.
ahwiles beat me to the one thing i could contribute . Good comfortable insulation between you and the ground can make all the difference.
and am i really the only one who even considers the poor ickle geese?
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down makes fur look positively right-on and groovy.
Munque-chick: Mrs S's and mine cycle tour I made a Pertex and Down double duvet which clipped to a double silk sleeping bag liner. Cost a bit, but less than two superlight down bags.
Cant link pics here at the office but you can see it at http://pompinos.blogspot.com near the bottom.
The silk liner came from these guys
http://www.jagbags.co.nz/
For the camper van we have a double sleeping bag which can be unzipped to make 2x bags.
Sharing body heat: You know it makes sense 🙂
you cant make fois gras from a Mink awhiles! 😉
Anyone tried this? - [u][b][url= http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/index.htm ]RayWay system[/url][/b][/u]
GOt a Thermarest already but still doesn't seem to help. I think the HH base layers (Ski ones!) are probably the way forward then. The issues was I don't want to start spending loads of money as I don't camp enough to warrant it which is why I thought the price of the Alpkit one was reasonable.
will be camping in the tent but wont' be carrying the sleeping bag on the bike so not bothered if its' a tad bigger. I think the reasoning behind it was I love my down coat and have never been cold so thought the sleeping bag might work. I'm aware of all the getting it wet etc .
Oh too many options 😉
ahwiles - Member
and am i really the only one who even considers the poor ickle geese?down makes fur look positively right-on and groovy.
OK I've owned one down bag for about 23 years and just bought another (with probs 1/4 the fill)
In that time I spent 17 years as a pesco/vegetarian.
I eat meat now but not lots of it and I make an effort to buy stuff that's been well treated. I'd estimate I eat 700gm meat per week?
I have always worn leather shoes.
WRT all of the above I reckon the down sleeping bag is pretty small beef (pun intended) in animal cruelty terms...for me it's about balance and the bigger picture.
Are you a vegan?
Yeah I'm not getting into the animal debate, that wasn't what this thread was about!
Responsible manufacturers (i.e any of the big brands) will be using down which is a by-product of the meat industry. The down comes from areas of the world which are big on their goose eating (Hungary in particular...).
Too many people are making your decision hard.
If, as you say your car camping with a tent an alpkit skyhigh bag will be fine for what you need and will prolly last quite a few years meaning value for money.
My only suggestion then is work out what the lowest temp your likely to camp in is and get a bag 3 deg c-ish colder for men and 5 deg c-ish colder than your estimate for women.
If you find at a later date that your camping in colder conditions a silk liner will effectivley add approx 3-4 deg c to the temp rating of your bag.
Synthetic bags are good but as your going to be in a fairly watertight car there shouldn't much risk of it getting wet so no need for synthetic.
HTH
cynic-al - Memberahwiles - Member
Are you a vegan?
not even nearly, personally i'm not that bothered by fur/down - i don't really like it or need it, so i don't buy it, if others choose to then that's their choice, it's not mine to make for them.
i just mentioned it as a consideration, cos a lot of people don't make the connection.
Responsible manufacturers ... will be using down which is a by-product of the meat industry...
yeah, right... that bird up there was plucked live, and will be again every couple of months, i bet it doesn't hurt at all...
if i was to start climbing mountains, and sleeping in snow holes, and that sort of thing, then a down sleeping bag would be on my shopping list. in that situation the material has a lot to offer.
it's very light, it's very warm, but there's a price - think about it, make a choice.
yeah, right... that bird up there was plucked live, and will be again every couple of months, i bet it doesn't hurt at all...
Which is why I said that 'responsible manufacturers' will not use live plucked birds. Most UK outdoor brands will have an ethics policy which will rule out the use of live plucked down.
Noone in the outdoor industry would want to be associated with live plucking nowadays, see the Patagonia response below:
[url= http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2010/12/patagonia-gets-down-via-live-feather-plucking.html ]http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2010/12/patagonia-gets-down-via-live-feather-plucking.html[/url]
Flatfish very concise and helpful, however I would be sleeping in a tent not a car, although can't imagine I'll eb getting soaked, if it rains that hard I'll get in the car with the bikes! 😉 Down still suitable?
If the bag will only ever be used for car camping / sleeping on mates floors, then I would get a synthetic bag. Water resistant, easy to wash and generally less hassle. (and much cheaper!)
However, if you ever plan to carry the bag, or plan to use it over the winter, then its probably better to get a down one. The down one will last longer too - synthetic insulation loses loft much faster than down.
Whichever one you buy, make sure you store it uncompressed at home. This will extend the life of the bag, and keep its performance high.
Sorry my fault I meant travelling in the near watertight car then putting into a tent rather than hiking/bike touring etc.
@benman, why would you need a waterproof bag to sleep on a mates floor?
Flatfish cool that makes sense!
Its not the fact that its waterproof (it isn't anyway, its water resistant), its the fact that its not worth spending £100 on a down bag, just to kip on a mates floor... When a £50 synthetic would do.
What you really need is a synthetic for slumming it, and a down for more serious stuff 🙂
Where abouts in the alps are you going MC?
Some of the valley bases are fairly high up, so you might be pleased to have that warm 3 season bag.
Somewhere like Chamonix is fairly low and quite open, so gets plenty of sun. But, we were in Saas Grund in Switzerland last August, which is at about 1500m. the valley is narrow and so steep sided that Saas grund only got the sun for a few hours each day. I took my old cheap car camping bag and was bloody frozen every night.
If you do buy a down bag, I would definitely recommend using it with a liner or wear baselayers/pyjamas to keep it clean. You can't just stick a down bag in the washer (one of the other advantages of synthetic bags).
TBH most of the year I use a synthetic bag for general car camping (an old ajungilak), didn't prove suitable in Saas Grund in August tho. Down for winter and other stuff ie backpacking etc.
Not sure yet looking at Chamonix and possibly Pila or Switzerland. MMM down one is sounding more appealing. Oh I'm ALWAYS wrapped up in base layers and pyjamas. I'd probably keep my ancient cheap sleeping bag as I think it was £20 about 8 years ago.
Don't think anyone has responded to the comment down would be good to pack small for storage.
Down isn’t the best if kept small for long periods of time, ideally it should be stored lofted, keep the expansion properties and also prevents dampness.
As for the ethical side, benman, good choice picking Patagonia recognised as one of the most ethical companies in the industry, sure they are not all like that.
Saying that I do have down bags and jackets and find them much warmer than the synthetic options I have used, only used relatively cheap synthetic sleeping bags though.
The Aosta valley (Pila), If you stay at a campsite in Aosta or elsewhere in the low valley, you might find a very warm bag unpleasent. I've camped in Aosta a few times, the campsite we use has lots of tree cover, but you couldn't sleep in beyond 9am, it got so hot in the tent, that one was a particularly nice week in July tho. Same with Chamonix IMO, I've camped in Chamonix when it was very wet and overcast for the whole time (June), but it was never cold.
BTW I love Aosta and Italy in general, Italian people are really nice and friendly.
This article by [b][u][url= http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/man_made_sleep ]Andy Kirkpatrick[/url][/u][/b] is interesting.
I like down, but as a person who never manages to keep his gear dry...
(Shouldn't go out when it's wet maybe 🙂 )
I've never been to Pila but heard a lot of good things about it, is it good for MTBIng? Should we do Chamonix and Pila then for our hols?
Epicyclo it started of interesting then got completely bored especially with the appalling spelling! would've thought with WORD nowadays someone could have used spell check 🙄
Now that Alpkit article is fair more interesting and to the point! Mr MC laughed at me earlier when I told him I had started this thread .. he's a git 😆
Munqe-chick - Member
Epicyclo it started of interesting then got completely bored especially with the appalling spelling!...
I noticed that too, but he's dyslexic so I just ignored the spelling. Certainly tests his gear more than most of us here would dream of trying.
haven't read most of this. but a DECENT new synthetic will be a lot better than your old cheap bag.
down seems a bit unnecessary (expensive) for what you need
Okay so what synthetic would you recommend? As again it is like a minefield and I have no clue where to start.
I've never been to Pila but heard a lot of good things about it, is it good for MTBIng? Should we do Chamonix and Pila then for our hols?
If that's for me (don't want to appear rude by not answering), I've never gone on a MTB specific trip. We did take MTBs to Chamonix and Aosta a couple of times for bad weather days, but that was in the mid/late 1990's, so then it was just more traditional low level MTBing like you would do in the UK, certainly it never occured to us to use the lifts. I don't think I had suspension forks then, so you can imagine the sort of thing we would be doing. We bought a guidebook in the bike shop in Aosta, being in Italian, it was quite entertaining working out the routes sometimes.
I've also heard good things about Pila, but also that there are only a few days of trails there (unless you are prepared to explore beyond).
Same in Chamonix in 1997, I think I had front suspension then, but we bought a guide and did traditional lower level XC routes. There must be loads of great stuff in and around Chamonix and all quite close together, there's certainly chairlifts all over the place. In the Aosta valley, Beyond Pila, it's all very spread out. It's only a couple of hours drive from Cham to Aosta, there's a big lift station in Aosta IIRC, which will take you up to Pila.
Mmmmm did i post the Pila stuff in the wrong thread muppet but hey still got a useful response!!!
Mountain Hardware Lamina 35 should fit the bill quite nicely.
Good for 2 deg c, packs down nice and small and is just about 1kg in weight.
I got one as an alternative to my Pipedream 400 for wetter nights, Cotswold were doing them for £45, but the cheapest I can find at the moment are:
http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/mountain-hardwear-lamina-35-reg-pid7243.html
Nick that's quite useful thanks, if only it was still £45 I'll keep my eyes peeled.
I have a LifeVenture one I got from GoOutdoors. Really nice bag - toasty when needed. They do a really nice waterproof bag that you can squeeze up for packing and then put a bung in to stop it expanding again. Only takes a few seconds to fluff it back out when getting ready for beddiebyes. 🙂