Is it that their populations are smarter or their governments are more competent?
Mumble mumble, British exceptionalism, mumble mumble
Truth: A national emergency thing could be useful
Reality … ???
A handful of "real world" UK emergency examples that are rubbish.
Broadmoor's sirens, needed testing weekly, obnoxiously loud, didn't actually tell you what to do, what to look out for, or anything useful, just a bloody loud siren that you could hear across a chunk of Berkshire, Hampshire and Surrey. Now decommissioned IIRC.
AWE, there's vague guidance issued locally if you live in the exclusion zone (which covers the M4, western Reading, and quite a large area of countryside) about watching TV/radio for guidance, but nothing to tell you that somethings gone wrong in the first place.
Teesside (Wilton, Billingham), even working there I couldn't tell the difference between the cyanide siren, the remain in place siren and the GTFO siren. And that's for a site that's surrounded by a fairly large population.
Replacing all three with a system that sends out a 'text' saying "please stay where you are and close the windows" is clearly a much better option than maintaining the existing systems which aren't fit for purpose. Even if only 99% of the population have a phone on a 4G network, it's probably 98% more than would do the right thing in response to the exiting alarms.
Ah, got it. Your conspiracy theories are fine, it’s everyone else’s conspiracy theories that are crazy. Makes you think.
Sounds like something Slartibartfast would say to Arthur... or the Vogons when he complains he didn't see the planning to demolish earth... or his council
“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
You seem to be saying be sceptical perhaps but suggesting it was "in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard" was deliberate to prevent people seeing it is a conspiracy?
I grant you, the odds are in your favour given track records. But is it not wiser to be sceptical rather than just contrary?
Based off track records it seems far more sensible to assume all politicians lie for their personal gain or survival until proven otherwise. Pretty much no politician of any party will make a second term if they don't cheat and lie.
Some are worse than others but ultimately if people still vote for them anyway there are no reasons not to and plenty of reasons to tow a line or make deals. There seems to be little or no consequence to just lying and if you get found out later it's too late and if we find the planning application in the locked filing cabinet after finding the previous 100 in equally improbable places I should just give them the benefit of the doubt again and again???
But the error is in the conclusions you are drawing from that. If Boris rolled out the AZ vaccine for no other reason than he’s besties with their CEO, does that suddenly mean that the vaccine doesn’t work?
Once again you are missing the detail in terms of "does not work", that's a different question to "did the UK make the worlds best vaccine because of Brexit".
Do you remember the lies rolled about about EU vaccine participation ... "we didn't get the email" etc. (presumably found eventually in the locked filing cabinet with the sign on the door) why has the UK got less vaccines than the European Medical Agency?
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regulatory/overview/public-health-threats/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/treatments-vaccines/covid-19-vaccines
You are thinking in terms of "does it save lives"... the government didn't and don't care if it saved lives and quite happily falsified data on multiple occasions and just plain lied because it was more important to give contracts to mates than save lives.
Boris said he'd prefer seeing bodies stacked in their 1000's.. Hancock didn't think twice before falsifying figures... indeed his WhatApp seemed to indicate he was really happy they were sending out unused pharmaceuticals they could then claim were used to falsify data.
They and I can only assume the rest of the cabinet knew they were sending people to die in care homes... they didn't even care and hid the statistics from care homes until they got exposed (what was it column B?).
Rather than "does it work" are "the UK developed vaccines that were only possible because of Brexit are so much better" (save more lives) than say the list of vaccines the European Medicines Agency has and how would you know when the lie and falsify data?
It might be better in some ways? ... who knows ? in terms of a stopped clock being exactly correct twice a day and only the word of liars of what was given where when their whatsapp shows they were cooking the figures? If our Brexit Vaccines are so much better than the others (saves more lives, less side effects, suitable for everyone) why does the EMA license the much larger list?
What I do know is the government would rather give work to their mates if it kills thousands or tens of thousands and if it works or not is immaterial to them compared to giving their mates contracts.
If you think that is a conspiracy then I think that's naive given what we know was said in meetings and whatsapp.
A handful of “real world” UK emergency examples that are rubbish.
Broadmoor’s sirens, needed testing weekly, obnoxiously loud, didn’t actually tell you what to do, what to look out for, or anything useful, just a bloody loud siren that you could hear across a chunk of Berkshire, Hampshire and Surrey. Now decommissioned IIRC.
So what was the process for Broadmoor sirens? Did they call a call centre in India that then put them on hold whilst they check who can authorise the use and then 1/2d later set them off?
OR ... and this seems more likely the warden and several members of staff could trigger it.
Teesside (Wilton, Billingham), even working there I couldn’t tell the difference between the cyanide siren, the remain in place siren and the GTFO siren. And that’s for a site that’s surrounded by a fairly large population.
Same question? Who triggers the alarm, what's the process and how long does it take.
It's a tone and a message that you can ignore if you want. Crickey what a thing to get hufty about. You really do struggle don't you.
Poly
TJ – its interesting that you think it will be misused, so turned it off. I actually expect it will be underused, precisely because the speed of decision making on when to use it and what to send will make incident commanders unsure what do to for fear of being criticised they have invaded everyone’s living rooms or used badly worded messaging.
The two are the same thing at the end of the day along with the timing and accuracy of the messaging.
So what was the process for Broadmoor sirens? Did they call a call centre in India that then put them on hold whilst they check who can authorise the use and then 1/2d later set them off?
Well I can't really argue with made up shit can I?
However if you want me to hypothesize and make up an answer then I would say the control room gets the alarm to say cyanide / WolfMan has escaped, and follows a pre-prepared set of instructions, probably involving phoning 999, and I'd assume that either the police/fire call center commander or the incident commander would then have their own pre-written set of instructions giving them the authority to send the message to a pre-determined set of phone masts in the local area.
I'd guess maybe 5 minutes to do all that if someone takes a tea brake halfway through and has to take time considering what biscuits to have?
I'm guessing the system is slightly more complex and automated than phoning up Vodafone customer services, pressing 7 for critical emergencies and being put on hold.
Well I can’t really argue with made up shit can I?
However if you want me to hypothesize and make up an answer then I would say the control room gets the alarm to say cyanide / WolfMan has escaped, and follows a pre-prepared set of instructions, probably involving phoning 999, and I’d assume that either the police/fire call center commander or the incident commander would then have their own pre-written set of instructions giving them the authority to send the message to a pre-determined set of phone masts in the local area.
I'm asking about the old process... if it involves jobs like "incident commander" or phoning 999 its already irrelevant.
Leak of methyl isocyanate .. do you phone 999 and explain to someone with an IQ of <10 you need an alert or hit the big red button? (or option 3 and not say anything and spray some water over the leak)
would then have their own pre-written set of instructions giving them the authority
Already lost... authority NEEDS to be given at the sharp end not some political post.
Imagine you are pumping gas to a platform that you can clearly see is burning down? Do you continue (because you don't have the authority to stop) or take the call and shut off the gas?
Imagine you know the blow out preventer is not working and you continue anyway because you phoned the person with authority to stop drilling and they were busy taking their daughter to ballet?
I can hear the conversation now...
Which service do you require...
Emergency response
Can I take your name
Joe Blogs
Can you give me the what 3 words
No
I'm sorry I can't connect you unless you download the app
I have a 10 figure grid reference and postcode
I'm sorry I can't connect you unless you download the app
I just need an emergency alert sending out before people die
If you won't download the app I can't connect you
OK OK its here bike wheel chain
OK thank you is this the correct number they can call you back on?
What do you mean call back this is an emergency
Yes I'm sure it is but can you confirm the number
Yes.. that's correct
OK, thank you our incident commander will contact you in the next 24 hours ... is there anything else I can help you with today?
I’m asking about the old process… if it involves jobs like “incident commander” or phoning 999 its already irrelevant.
Why?
I can hear the conversation now…
Well clearly you can't, because all that would have been covered by the OSEP for the DEPZ as identified by the operator, LA and CA as part of their compliance with COMAH regulations (everyone loves an acronym).
