just that there's a realistic possibility that it might be
Sounds to me like a good reason to be on the streets protesting.
ninfan you didn't have any problem supporting the Countryside Alliance when they were protesting about a government carrying out, legally, a policy which was an election promise, remember?
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Methinks you are a tiny bit biased in your narrative.
protesting about a legitimately made decision because it didn't go your way is an entirely different concept.
What about Martin Luther King & the March on Washington?
BTW ninfan........[i]"fight prejudice"[/i] Awww, the poor snowflakes 😆
and when you can't even count on your own party for support
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-06/donald-trump-hits-out-at-judge-robarts-again-over-travel-ban/8243352
US senator Patrick Leahy, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said Mr Trump seemed intent on precipitating a constitutional crisis.Some Republicans also expressed discomfort with the situation.
"I think it is best not to single out judges for criticism," Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell told CNN.
Republican senator Ben Sasse, a vocal critic of Mr Trump, was less restrained:
"We don't have so-called judges … we don't have so-called presidents, we have people from three different branches of government who take an oath to uphold and defend the constitution," he told ABC America.
He is now in the very dangerous position of willing something to happen, the way he has whipped up fear and used it is a very real warning to the rest of the world. It's one of the ways terrorism actually wins - you don't need to do that much just create fear and in this case it's the President who is doing that for them. It will be interesting the next time a white kid goes on a shooting spree to see how that is handled as statistically it's more likely to happen.
mrlebowski - Member
What about Martin Luther King & the March on Washington?
(Click the poster below to see detail information)
You mean this march for [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Washington_for_Jobs_and_Freedom ]jobs and freedom?[/url]?
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Protesting is one thing, setting fire to cars, smashing up shops and intimidating Universities to cancel speeches is something else entirely. If people in white masks had burnt cars on Obama's election I think there would rightly be outrage. Black facemasks against Trump
are ok though it seems.
Travel ban has only been suspended temporarily for those already with visas. Trump will overturn it and/or get Congress to pass a specific law.
the way he has whipped up fear and used it is a very real warning to the rest of the world.
An interesting point. It's long been assumed that Trump's victory, which by definition is also a victory for bigotry, would provide a shot in the arm for Marine Le Pen's presidential ambitions in France.
However I starting to think that Trump's cack-handed authoritarian style, the sheer stupidity of his executive directives, and the fact that he's making the US look ridiculous in the eyes of the world, that it might actually have the opposite effect.
Travel ban has only been suspended temporarily for those already with visas. Trump will overturn it and/or get Congress to pass a specific law.
It's not looking like he can overturn it, he has lost support within his own party on the issue and to pass a law it must first be legal within the constitution. He has already shot himself in the foot by saying he needs 90 days to "work stuff out" he has the time to do that right now - his case for the ban becomes self defeating if he can't come up with good reason or justification for forming a legal policy on this - such as good solid immigration checks which catches out the "bad dudes" but allows the innocent bystanders to pass - like the people who happen to have a passport from one of those countries but have never lived there.
Protesting is one thing, setting fire to cars, smashing up shops and intimidating Universities to cancel speeches is something else entirely.
Again was this the majority or the minority? Given the scale of the protests against the seriously unpopular president it all seemed to go quite peacfully. Mass demonstrations always attract those that want to cause trouble - it doesn't mean they were there for the same political reasons and it should in no way reduce the impact of what was a series of huge and peacful protests.
Again was this the majority or the minority?
I think jambalaya is trying to say that if every single person, out of the 72 million people who didn't vote for Trump, doesn't always behave in an acceptable manner, the protests are worthless.
Well this seems like a sensible compromise :
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38876644 ]Trump calls for 'careful' border checks after travel ban setback[/url]
Presumably dodgy looking geezers turning up with suitcases full of kalashnikovs won't be allowed in.
what you mean exactly what was going on already? The same idea that had stopped or prevented terrorists from those countries reaching the US for the last 8 years?
What a good idea... maybe those intellegance officials might have some useful input
I assume the new "careful now" presidential order which replaces the ban is only for 90 days.
Or as Trump puts it, [i] “until we find out what's going on.”[/i]
Ernie
You appear to have forgotten that was [i]before[/i] the ban
Exactly what I said I supported
Protests after the ban? Nope, just carried on hunting legally (told you before, we even gave the beagles a PowerPoint presentation showing them that chasing rabbits was legal, but hares were not allowed any more)
See, we [i]didn't[/i] resort to pointless protests, we lost, sucked it up and moved on.
See, we didn't resort to pointless protests, we lost, sucked it up and moved on.
But this protest has helped keep the momentum up, pressured people and made sure it has stayed in the public eye while they have takes sensible legal steps to take a legally dubious ruling to court and have it challenged. Seems like a great protest.
Some of the most effective techniques for protest now involve financial protest where you boycott or challenge the revenue streams of large organisations (uninstall Uber for instance) or when movie/TV studios/NFL decided not to go to states that had discriminatory laws on gender.
Given the fact that these things are being debated and kept alive means protesting is working. As is being pointed out the exec orders are likely to come back as illegal.
Anyway back to the point Trump will be happy to present his case with his learning to both the courts and congress to get his ban in place unless he has no evidence for it.
Part of me thinks that this is all just a sideshow whilst trump sneaks through changes to advance his business interests.
I mean: I'm sure he is doing that anyway, but I wonder if this more outrageous stuff is JUST there to distract people, or whether he's genuinely committed to it beyond it's value in distracting people.
Either way, I am forecasting 6 months in office (or however long it takes him to repeal whatever troublesome business laws he doesn't like) and then the mother of all flounces.
[quote=ninfan ]See, we didn't resort to pointless protests, we lost, sucked it up and moved on.
As you always do 😆 (psst 1975 referendum)
<eagerly awaits ninfan's pointless pedantry>
[quote=ernie_lynch ]I think jambalaya is trying to say that if every single person, out of the [s]72[/s] 136 million people who [s]didn't[/s] voted [s]for Trump,[/s] doesn't always behave in an acceptable manner, the protests are worthless.
You appear to be making unfounded assumptions
I'm loving the way that having screwed up this travel ban thing, he blames everyone else and refuses to accept any kind of responsibility for his mistakes.
Must be a lovely guy to work for.
ErnieYou appear to have forgotten that was before the ban
No I remember very clearly. The hunting ban was an election promise, you lost the election, and instead of accepting it you all marched through London bawling like precious little snowflakes "'cause you lost the election"
Would it be possible for a 'genuine' pro Trumper to make a tangible case for Trump. The dismal trolling and incoherent rambling do little but discredit anyone that does support him.
Anyone? And specifically anyone that doesn't drift into irrelevant trolling part way through?
Why are odious Countryside Alliance still with us...?
I notice Trump is now miffed about Bannon being on the security council, because he didn't read the executive order that he signed that put Bannon there.
So all those people who have argued that Trump is smart please try and defend him now.
I'm loving the way that having screwed up this travel ban thing, he blames everyone else and refuses to accept any kind of responsibility for his mistakes.
He will never accept that he has made mistakes. He has a narcissistic personality disorder, a disorder typical with murderers as they are under the believe they can do anything and not get caught.
But yet he's [i]still[/i] president
Gutted ninfan
The reports of various members of staff working in the dark because they don't know where the light switches are seems very apt.
Presumably dodgy looking geezers turning up with suitcases full of kalashnikovs won't be allowed in.
What, you mean the Russians? Bit late for that.
However I starting to think that Trump's cack-handed authoritarian style, the sheer stupidity of his executive directives, and the fact that he's making the US look ridiculous in the eyes of the world, that it might actually have the opposite effect.
+1. These people always defeat themselves. Once they've have outed themselves, [u]Normal[/u] people will come along and take out the trash.
A country is kept safe by good intelligence, not the dumb stupidity of an arbitrary ban.....
#BoycottBudweiser seems like the alt-right/trumpets are all upset by a tv advert depicting the creator of bud as an immigrant, the truth hurts snowflakes.
[quote=Klunk ]#BoycottBudweiser seems like the alt-right/trumpets are all upset by a tv advert depicting the creator of bud as an immigrant, the truth hurts snowflakes.
While casually ignoring Trump's mother was an immigrant, as were his grandparents 😆
A country is kept safe by good intelligence, not the dumb stupidity of an arbitrary ban.....
I thought a Country was kept safe by not being a dick to other Countries and people, first.
And wives... There was a placard pic I posted previously about it something along the lines of immigrants still doing the jobs Americans don't want.
"I thought a Country was kept safe by not being a dick to other Countries and people, first."
For the USA that ship sailed some time ago...
depicting the creator of bud as an immigrant
And if that doesn't prove the value of an immigration ban, then nothing does.
And if that doesn't prove the value of an immigration ban, then nothing does.
Well it should but the rednecks love it.
For the USA that ship sailed some time ago..
True, but demonstrably upping the ante and vitriol really isn't going to get you anywhere good.
Mr. Trump, who was not fully briefed on the executive order he signed giving his chief strategist a seat on the National Security Council, has demanded that he be looped in earlier.
You could always try reading what you sign mr president.
Purveyors of fine wood products Lumber 84 went HARD at the Orange **** during the Super Bowl last night!
You could always try reading what you sign mr president.
it seems to be becoming apparent he can't really read very well - there's various things going around online at the moment about it, one of them is called the David Pakman show or something. Explains a lot, much easier to control your puppet when it doesn't know what it's really doing.
He seems to be in full melt down mode today on twitter.
"Any negative polls are FAKE NEWS"
"I call my own shots, largely based on a accumulation of data, and everyone knows it. Some FAKE NEWS media, in order to marginalize, lies!"
"The Failing @nytimes writes total fiction concerning me. They have gotten it wrong for two years, and now are making up stories and sources".
How long before he says / does something stupid enough for impeachment?
Will he see 2018 in the White House?
You could always try reading what you sign mr president.
This assumes that you believe the Trump administration when it claims that he wasn't "fully briefed". Why would you do that, why would you believe them?
How about an alternative possibility, eg, he was fully briefed and knew exactly what he was doing, what he didn't expect was the backlash, much of it from his own party, so now he typically decides to blame others, "I was mislead, by people I trusted, blah, blah, blah" ❓
I call my own shots
on advice.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38884604 ]Speaker Bercow: Trump should not speak in Parliament[/url]
slowoldman - Member
Speaker Bercow: Trump should not speak in Parliament
This bloke likes to shout in the Parliament. 😯
Ya, ya don't pay him any attention. 😆
Facts, stats, polls, satire, and diligent, un-compromised journalism, are slowly, but literally, killing him.
Ricky Gervais
Ya, ya don't pay him any attention.
Many are currently observing this fine bit of advice.
Any negative polls are fake news, just like the CNN, ABC, NBC polls in the election. Sorry, people want border security and extreme vetting.
Donald (mad as a bucket of frogs) Trump.
slowoldman - Member
Speaker Bercow: Trump should not speak in Parliament
While he welcome the Emir of Kuwait to speak. Kuwait where being gay is illegal, there are no laws prohibiting domestic violence, sexual harassment, or marital rape and a travel ban on Israelis.
“Your Highness it is my privilege to welcome you here to our Parliament for this important stage of your state visit. Your presence here today is a welcome reminder of the many intimate ties that exist between our nations and our peoples”
Double standards?
Could be. Or two wrongs don't make a right.
It depends upon whether the Emir of Kuwait is also a racist rapist arsehole?
A dialogue with other leaders, where those leaders are respectful, and decent, is fine, even if the countries they are leading have different standards from us.
It amuses me greatly when some people want to make a like for like comparison between the United States and some autocratic oligarchy.
Apparently it's wrong to expect and demand better human rights from United States than from an autocratic theocracy!
Western liberal standards don't apply to the United States!!
Speaker Bercow: Trump should not speak in Parliament
Absolutely right. I've even heard that some of those Americans carry guns in the streets and have been known to kill each other. I personally think that they should all be barred from entering the country. They sound proper dangerous and they wear loud trousers.
Jamie - Member
Ya, ya don't pay him any attention.
Many are currently observing this fine bit of advice.
😆 I am referring to the Speaker Bercow who like shouty shouty for a little man.
How big are Bercow's hands?
Just reading the article linked on the Brexit thread linking voting patterns to education levels. Does anybody have a similar analysis from the US elections?
Does this thread not provide all the data you need from which to reach a conclusion?piemonster - Member
Just reading the article linked on the Brexit thread linking voting patterns to education levels. Does anybody have a similar analysis from the US elections?
😀
Well, there is that. But I was hoping for some analysis of those that actually had a vote.
aracer - Member
How big are Bercow's hands?
Who knows but I ain't shaking his hands coz I don't know what he has grabbed previously ... 😆
You mean the ones with lower education are far more intelligent to win the election? How can those so called people with more education manage to loss the referendum/election I don't know. Must be a case of dumb and dumber don't you think so? 😆piemonster - Member
Just reading the article linked on the Brexit thread linking voting patterns to education levels. Does anybody have a similar analysis from the US elections?
To be fair Ernie, part of me is jokingly starting to think that some Chinese style autocratic technocracy might be better than democracy if it has good human rights, environmental and equality laws hard-coded into its constitution.
You mean the ones with lower education are far more intelligent to win the election? How can those so called people with more education manage to loss the referendum/election I don't know. Must be a case of dumb and dumber don't you think so?
As others have pointed out, the electoral college system weighted the votes towards the uneducated/thick. Either they need to go down the route of the popular vote, or they need to weight the system so that those over the average IQ have a higher voting weight. Otherwise you will get governments that will direct the country on a course that uneducated idiots think that it should be set on. Giving university towns/voting areas double weighting, would be a good start.
Who knows but I ain't shaking his hands coz I don't know what he has grabbed previously ...
We still talking about Bercow?
Tom_W1987 - MemberAs others have pointed out, the electoral college system weighted the votes towards the uneducated/thick. Either they need to go down the route of the popular vote, or they need to weight the system so that those over the average IQ have higher voting weight. Otherwise you will get governments that will direct the country on a course that uneducated idiots think that it should be set on.
Surely those who have devised the system are not those from uneducated or the unintelligent ones because they cannot even "read" or "write" let alone establish good logic but ...
The question begs ... how the hell do those people who, with their highly educated background & in charged of the system, managed to devise a system so badly done that they loss their own game?
Isn't it a case of dumb and dumber? I mean who would devise a system to disadvantage themselves? 😆
No. Let's move on.Jamie - Member
Who knows but I ain't shaking his hands coz I don't know what he has grabbed previously ...
We still talking about Bercow?
I've just read the link maxtorque posted a day or two ago "Against Normalization", it's quite good and Trump/Hitler comparisons - attacking the media, repeating complete lies, etc, is fairly convincing.
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-munich-post/
ernie_lynch - Member
I've just read the link maxtorque posted a day or two ago "Against Normalization", it's quite good and Trump/Hitler comparisons - attacking the media, repeating complete lies, etc, is fairly convincing.https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-munich-post/
Summarise the main points please as I think there is really nothing new to be honest.
I think there is really nothing new to be honest
Nice summary
Summarise the main points please as I think there is really nothing new to be honest.
Erm...
Surely those who have devised the system are not those from uneducated or the unintelligent ones because they cannot even "read" or "write" let alone establish good logic but ...The question begs ... how the hell do those people who, with their highly educated background & in charged of the system, managed to devise a system so badly done that they loss their own game?
Because the system was devised a few hundred years ago, when people had a tendency to defer to their betters. Also, twitter and Breibart didn't exist.
Summarise the main points please as I think there is really nothing new to be honest.
Classic. 😆
BBC4 has been repeating 'Nazis- A Warning from History', with no doubt a wry smile on the face of the scheduler.
Think carefully ... time has no bearing on intelligence. It is really a case of dumb and dumber. 😆Tom_W1987 - Member
Because the system was devised a few hundred years ago, when people had a tendency to defer to their betters. Also, twitter and Breibart didn't exist
C'mon I really need some sort of summary because it is a very long article, when I asked Ernie to summarise I really meant that as I need a summary to compare with my assumptions. 😀captainsasquatch - Member
Summarise the main points please as I think there is really nothing new to be honest.
Classic. 😆
chewkw you iz attention whore.
Also,not very convincing as a person from Borneo?
thejesmonddingo - Member
chewkw you iz attention whore.
Steady on ...
thejesmonddingo - Member
Also,not very convincing as a person from Borneo?
Over there we have a funny way of seeing the world as we usually get brown beaten by the political system ... 😛
Think carefully ... time has no bearing on intelligence. It is really a case of dumb and dumber.
https://phys.org/news/2013-05-victorian-era-people-intelligent-modern-day-counterparts.html
😆
But on a more serious note, it has everything to do with the way thick or uneducated people have been politically enabled by the internet.
So where's trumps militarism going to take us. Pretty clear he's in cahoots with lockheed and the like, aye we'll reduce our prices and ramp up production no bother. kerrching...
Problem is these weapons need to get used to justify the cycle.
we usually get brown beaten by the political system ...
Ah the institutional racism at the heart of the political system? 😆
Lockheed never slashed F-35 prices due to Trump, don't credit him with that victory - please. The price drops that we have witnessed, were projected years ago. Trump is more likely to balls up what is actually a pretty good aircraft, despite typical teething issues - cheaper than a Tiffie per aircraft now I believe.
It's no just planes if you listen to the rhetoric. More interested in the long term strategy of increased spending. It's a couple of things, a straight up rob of tax payers, and some poor bastards are getting it.
Yes, he wants to go on a military spending rampage - and I highly suspect he will go on an actual military rampage through the South Pacific for the lolz. From what I've heard, the USMC etc brass are also itching for a fight because they're bored by the post Iraq/Afghanistan wind down - it's just that I think they'll regret it when Trump has them re-enacting Guadalcanal.
I'm completely convinced that the next few years are going to wind up with us living through some borderline apocalyptic stupidity.
I don't buy the Hitler comparisons, I reckon he's a straight up cold war era leader, largely in it for their own gains. Can see him more funding proxy wars than being overtly militaristic. Obviously against China. I reckon his core philosophy is commies and cash. (Along with personal aggrandisement, obviously)
I don't think he cares for ideology, I think he's a xenophobe. Every country is a competitor to be ****ed over and the best possible deal extracted, in Trumps world.