Donald! Trump!

Jeez, as this thread tends to infinity it appears that ninfan and chewky are converging... 😯

I'm having difficulty telling them apart these days.

I wouldnt count on Trump being presodent for much longer, they've already falsley accused Iran of attacking a US Navy ship - meanwhile Japan and the EU are taking an increasingly hard line with Trump. The comments coming from the EU sound as though they are prepared to start a shooting war with the United States to prevent meddling in their internal politics.

I think we will see the breakup pf Nato, the removal of US military presence from continental Europe and a blockade placed on US Naval access to the Med. You heard it here first guys, the first few weeks have been insane...imagine the next few years.

I think we are witnessing a total paradigm shift in global relations. Funny how it's taken 70 years for American actions to be unacepptable though, you know, when white Europeans get upset.

It is spectacularly nuts to appoint an EU ambassador who has compared the EU to the soviet union and says he hopes to bring them down

It was never going to be well recieved was it

Trump seems to think he can hire ball breakers to brow beat nation states. He is in for a very rude awakening most likely from China as the EU will at least be restrained and diplomatic and not militaristic

chewkw is ninfans drunken alter ego

I know, and despite all this outrage, he's still President

Yes, and despite the fact that he's president, he's still a dick!

The comments coming from the EU sound as though they are prepared to start a shooting war with the United States to prevent meddling in their internal politics.

What? 😀

the removal of US military presence from continental Europe and a blockade placed on US Naval access to the Med.

And how exactly will that work? The EU don't control the Suez Canal and they cannot legally block the Gibraltar Strait.

I don't think they woukd care for legality - I don't think many would raise the issue with the UN, blocking the Gibraltar Strait would be comparitively easy. Suez, not so much but just blocking the former would be suffice to hit the Americans financially.

would be suffice to hit the Americans financially.

Financially how?

Trade and the cost of routing battlegroups through the Suez.

Not to mention the loss of face caused.

I wouldnt count on Trump being presodent for much longer,

Ah, predictions on the impending inevitability of Trump [b]not[/b] being president.... now, where have we seen them before, and how accurate have they been so far? 😀

blocking the Gibraltar Strait would be comparitively easy.

Without British support I think you'll find it would be a very long way from 'comparatively easy' 😀

Trade and the cost of routing battlegroups through the Suez.

Not to mention the loss of face caused.

It's never going to happen.

If the Strait was blocked to USN ships that would have absolutely no effect on trade.

Loss of face? Considering that a single USN Carrier Group has more firepower than most Navies, then they could easily pass through any blockade.

As for the NATO stuff, the EU benefits from NATO a lot more than the USA does.

Trade? Most of the US trade goes via the Pacific see [url= http://www.minyanville.com/businessmarkets/articles/suez-canal-shipping-routes-egypt-crisis/2/4/2011/id/32628 ]this article[/url]

Gobochul. Theyd be operating in littoral waters right next to European air power, which really isnt that far off American airpower. A single battlegroup wouldnt have a chance in hell of passing through without a serious war of attrition first.

Not to mention how spready out and okd the US airforce is.

And Britain really wouldnt stand a chance if the EU wanted Gibraltar.

Again, blockading the strait would be a good show of atrength in the face of Russian and American aggression.

And Britain really wouldnt stand a chance if the EU wanted Gibraltar.

😆

Have you ever been inside the rock of Gibraltar?

Have you ever considered how hard it would be fir us to land armour on the rock to defend it?

I don't know if y'all realise, but you've gone mental.

Most of the US trade goes via the Pacific

Irrelevant really.

Large Container ships are operated by a handful of multinational companies. They are flagged under a number of different countries flags. Not one flies the US flag. Not a single one.

They also carry a mix of cargo bound for numerous locations.

How would you block just the ones with US cargo?

Gobochul. Theyd be operating in littoral waters right next to European air power, which really isnt that far off American airpower. A single battlegroup wouldnt have a chance in hell of passing through without a serious war of attrition first.

Yeah because the Americans don't anything about fighting far from home and destroying air forces on the ground. 🙄

Besides it's nonsense and will never happen.

Junkyard - lazarus

If we were all right wing he would post as if he was Corbyn

And Junkyard hits the nail firmly on the head.

ninfan - Member

Donald Trump will still be president of the most powerful nation on Earth

Its absolutley, totally and utterly glorious!

Posted 1 hour ago

Ninfan earlier...

[img] [/img]

How's the "sensible debate" going?

it's not, that ship sailed many many pages ago...

[quote=teamhurtmore ]How's the "sensible debate" going?

better since you arrived Obvs

[quote=Northwind ]I don't know if y'all realise, but you've gone mental.

They started it

It is pretty unrealistic gobuchul, but to pretend that undermining the EU and making enemies with China at the same time is a good idea, is frankly ridiculous.

The American attitude towards the EU is disgusting, and personally I do think that it is about time the Union responded in a robust way with hard ppwer.

The Americans woukdnt dare to call their bluff, they have a hard enough time fighting developing nations let alone a bloc that operates more numerous and more modern fast jets.

Tom_W1987 - Member
- meanwhile Japan and the EU are taking an increasingly hard line with Trump.

The comments coming from the EU sound as though they are prepared to start a shooting war with the United States to prevent meddling in their internal politics.

I think we will see the breakup pf Nato, the removal of US military presence from continental Europe and a blockade placed on US Naval access to the Med. You heard it here first guys, the first few weeks have been insane...imagine the next few years.

Good if USA & UK can withdraw from Nato to leave them to fight their own wars ...

I think we are witnessing a total paradigm shift in global relations. Funny how it's taken 70 years for American actions to be unacepptable though, you know, when white Europeans get upset.

You don't say ... 😆

It's the beginning of the end.

[quote=chewkw ]It's the beginning of the end.

Yeah, I seem to remember some minor royal being assassinated was also "the beginning of the end"

The thing is Chewke, Europe has a population of over 700 million. If they want to cut ties and make enemies of the EU, then in 20 to 30 years it will be China, India and the EU that will be the worlds superpowers. America will be relegated to mediocrity and floating a large but increasingly obsolescent Navy around....whilst everyone else laughs on in mirth.

Yes, after all, we are able to witness with the breakdown of Yugoslavia how the European nations were able to pull together and act collaboratively in order to stop an ongoing genocide on its own doorstep.

Omg.

Tom you're an absolute moron. There's no way the disperate EU forces could handle the US in a military engagement.

Only the UK & France have nuclear attack subs & cruise missiles. The NATO countries dont have enough tankers, ew aircraft, transports, any long range bombers & 1 heavy aircraft carrier between them. Every time Nato/EU has been in a combat situation they've relied on US assets to do the job. It's embarrassing. In fact bar the Tornado, Typhoon & French Dassualt jets everyone flies American.

Go back to playing Counter Strike & stop commenting on things you have no idea about.

I wonder if everyone but Ninfan and Chekwk stopped posting, one of them would change their position just so they could continue at it?

"There's no way the disperate EU forces could handle the US in a military engagement."

True, but once they'd defeated our conventional forces in a fortnight or so we'd resort to rifles and IEDs and beat them. Just like Vietnam and Afghanistan.

We might have to endure a slight reduction in our standard of living for the duration though...

Lol what's this we rubbish?

No way on God's earth would the UK involve itself in the EUs mess In the event off them staging a military action against US troops/targets.
More likely we'd be the giant unsinkable aircraft carrier we were in WW2 & side with the US.

I think I'll stick to the biking forum. The folk on here appear to have had a mass lobotomy.

Let's be honest this USA armed conflict with Europe is never going to happen.

How about the ban on selling guns to people with mental illness being lifted in the States. How frikin mad are the legislators over there.

See also. Arkansas passing a law that will allow (spousal) rapists to sue victims who want to abort a resulting child.

EDIT. For clarity.

I think I'll stick to the biking forum. The folk on here appear to have had a mass lobotomy.

Probably the most sensible thing said on this thread 😀 I'll join you to.

The UK forces and deterrent can't really operate without the USA. Even in your weird fantasies.

EU leaders coped with Bush mk2, they'll cope with Trump.
They won't bend over the way our leader has to.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/former-norway-pm-bondevik-held-washington-dulles-airport-2014-visit-iran?CMP=share_btn_tw ]Victim of trumps muslim ban[/url]

Back to Trumpy...

Whilst we all stand aghast at the surreal BS coming from America you have to wonder about these 'Exec orders' ?!

If its so easy to change things why didn't previous US presidents just get on and write a few?

And whilst I'm posting what's wrong with having China as the new world leader, theres a vacancy now the yanks have gone batshit and who doesnt like noodles?

If its so easy to change things why didn't previous US presidents just get on and right a few?

Decency and respect for the democratic process.

Executive orders were never meant to be used like this. He's taking the piss.

"They were done for loading weapons & explosives indices hidden compartments in trucks!"
Ninfan do you have a source for that I am struggling to work out if it is a straight lie or a misrepresentation of fact ?

From the FT story about Trump's reasons to repeal the legislation put in to stop the banks crashing the world again. I'm not sure his supporters were voting for this 😯

We expect to be cutting a lot out of Dodd-Frank because frankly I have so many people, friends of mine, that have nice businesses and they can’t borrow money

Is he trying to get himself impeached so he can go and set up Trump TV?

If its so easy to change things why didn't previous US presidents just get on and write a few?

It helps if you have both houses of Congress on your side and also your policies are shared by the military-industrial complex that dominates US politics.

Oh, and don't forget the bonus if your policies benefit the large oil and financial conglomerates that also hold a huge influence in policy-making.

Throw in a lot of ego, Constitution denial and general nastiness and you have Trump's policy-making in a nutshell.

This is why those who were voting for Trump to "change things" were either naive or completely stupid.

Yeah he will get some of this as far as congress, a lot will get stalled there when he has to ask money etc.

This is like Christmas day everyday - I'm watching the United States once unassailable stranglehold on global affairs being loosen everyday, as Trump single-handedly undermines its influence and prestige.

The US's closest neighbours and allies are being alienated by Trump with staggering speed....Mexico, Australia, and now today :

[url= http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-europe-trump-20170203-story.html ]A divided European Union has one thing in common: Mistrust of Trump [/url]

It's only been 2 weeks and we've got another 4 years of Trump redefining the United States relationship with the rest of the world. And to think that it was only a few years ago that American neo-Cons were quite seriously talking of "full-spectrum dominance" - the 21st century would be their century!

Yep, to use ninfan's words : [i]"Its absolutely, totally and utterly glorious!"[/i]

@Crankboy

So a sworn statement saying that they were sending weapons to Iraq or did I miss the page about planning an operation on US Soil?
Looks like the FBI had a good handle on that without needed to stop any person from Iraq entering the US don't you think?

Anyway off to bother Iran and Cuba now
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-04/trump-administration-imposes-fresh-iran-related-sanctions/8241024
Did we ever get confirmation when the missile was launched?

and I wonder who he is going to sack this time
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-04/donald-trumps-travel-ban-temporarily-blocked/8241266

A US federal judge in Seattle has granted a nationwide temporary restraining order blocking President Donald Trump's recent action barring nationals from seven countries from entering the United States.

Key points:

Federal judge suggests travel ban be lifted immediately across US
Trump administration expected to repeal decision
60,000 visas revoked as result of Trump's executive order
The judge's order represents a major challenge to the Trump administration, which is expected to immediately appeal. The judge declined to stay the order, suggesting that travel restrictions could be lifted immediately.

It is understood to be the broadest legal ruling to date against the travel ban.

The challenge was brought by the state of Washington and later joined by the state of Minnesota.

"[b]It's a wonderful day for the rule of law in this country,[/b]" said Washington state solicitor general Noah Purcell.

The decision came on a day that attorneys in four states were in courts challenging Mr Trump's executive order.

Lets hope more victories for the rule of law are forthcoming

Ninfan once again you post something that proves you are talking out of your backside. Do you enjoy making yourself look like an oaf?

chewkw » It's the beginning of the end.
Yeah, I seem to remember some minor royal being assassinated was also "the beginning of the end"

Well it was for several million people.

Also led to 30 years of war and depression, a bit of nuclear war and a large amount of genocide.

Then followed by 50 years of proxy wars, a nuclear arms race and a couple of stand offs that could of destroyed civilisation.

So deliberate misrepresentation then ninfan just like the case reports no plan for an attack I'm USA or bowling green, no domestic massacre if the plan had not been stopped .

[quote=Pigface ]Ninfan once again you post something that proves you are talking out of your backside. Do you enjoy making yourself look like an oaf?

YOU REPLIED THAT IS ALL HE CARES ABOUT

Ok Junky calm down, even on an obscure Mountain Bike forum I think it is right to expose his lies.

Yes he thrives on the attention as he is needy

edit- ignore, covered above

Ah, I see that you've managed to respond in a calm and non-hysterical way to things pigface, typical nouveau-leftie, gets shouty and abusive at the drop of a hat because he cant handle the pressure of adult debate. I look forward to seeing you smashing thing outside the Milo Yiannopolous book launch.

@crankboy, Well, you can quibble on the wording, and you can call her error deliberate, or put it down it someone who has received maybe a hundred briefings on different issues getting the details wrong, but the core of the issue remains the same doesn't it:
I) these guys weren't just involved in fundraising as you said, but instead we have fully vetted refugees from Iraq who turned out to have a history of IED attacks on US troops, caught in sting plotting to supply, and in possessiion of stinger missiles - nope, no concerns at all there then, crack on sonny.
ii) As a result of this they all but suspended issue of visas for several months while they reassessed everyone they had already issued and tightened up the procedure

I take it you do like making yourself look foolish, you are very good at it.

[img] [/img]

Duh, they're not called lies, they're called alternative facts now remember? Get with the programme.

Glad you admit it.

[quote=Pigface ]Ok Junky calm down, even on an obscure Mountain Bike forum I think it is right to expose his lies.
Yes he thrives on the attention as he is needy

We all know he lies so what exactly are you exposing

TBH i dont think he lies I think he will say anythign to get a reaction
If you provide that reaction you don't expose his lies you encourage him to troll

Its your choice what you do but at some point you will realise its pointless engaging with him as he does not care what he says as long as it annoys someone and any response will be replied to.

Are you playing the last word game?

Here's one you'll enjoy pigface:

Trumpenreich - I think we'll adopt that one hey?

Welcome to week three of the Trumpenreich!

(Last word)

You alright? You don't seem alright.

Yes I win 😆

Alright NW? I'll say, after all, aren't we all supposed to be smoking piles of radioactive ash by now?

@PF: last word

mikewsmith - Member
and I wonder who he is going to sack this time
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-04/donald-trumps-travel-ban-temporarily-blocked/8241266

Lets hope more victories for the rule of law are forthcoming

[quote=Pigface ]Yes I win in a race like that there can be no winners

I know it's a race to the bottom 😆

in that case try chewkw then hours of fun from his replies some of which are apparently almost coherent these days

Oh come on, there is a limit 😆

😆 @ "... limit"

"so called judge"

I think he actually *is* a judge

Criticised by "so called President".

Is that Milo chap trying to do a Colbert? He's not succeeding.

Some butt hurt Americans on this board. If the EU wanted to close the Gibraltar strait or remove American bases from the continent, they could. The Americans wouldn't fire a shot, they are too spread out over the globe countering everyone they've managed to piss off. ****, they couldn't even strong arm the Philippines into letting them keep Subic bay and Clark airforce base.

American supremacy in hard power is slowly but surely becoming ineffective.

[img] [/img]

If the EU wanted to close the Gibraltar strait or remove American bases from the continent, they could.

Why would they want to close the Gib Strait?
Why would they want to remove American bases?

The EU can't organise a piss up in the proverbial brewery.

They can't even agree where to put the Parliament.

Do you realise how weak the European armed forces are compared to the USA?

Between the Brits, Italians, Germans and French we have one effective aircraft carrier.

Why do we need aircraft carriers to protect our borders and littoral waters, again? China has one carrier, that wouldn't stop them from pushing the American Navy out of the South China sea if they really wanted to.

American bases should be removed to encourage closer European defense integration, increased defense spending and pro European radicalism. Trumps position should be seen as a chance to further strengthen the EU, dependancy on the US can be used by people like Trump to leverage and undermine the Union. Something that I think you'd like to see Trump do.

Why do we need aircraft carriers to protect our borders and littoral waters, again?

You don't you're right. However you are talking about denying the Mediterranean to the USN and projecting power. To do that you need strong naval forces.

closer European defense integration, increased defense spending and pro European radicalism.

That sounds a lot like how some people felt about things that were going so well in 1941.

pro European radicalism

Can we have some more on that please? 🙂

NATO without the US really means the UK, Germany and France. If the UK is out of the EU that means Germany and France providing something like 80% of military strength. Germany are still very uncomfortable projecting power as it tends to end badly.

I wonder what Putin would think? "The US have gone and those pesky EU people are now even stronger!"

Something that I think you'd like to see Trump do.

How's that going for you Derren? 😀

That travel ban is just shambolic.

Trump really needs to get his act together ASAP.

However you are talking about denying the Mediterranean to the USN and projecting power. To do that you need strong naval forces.

I'm not sure I agree with Tom's argument in general, but he's quite accurate about this part. The EU does have decent naval forces - whilst aircraft carriers are normally at the heart of a modern naval fleet, in this case they're irrelevant as the EU can happily deploy (far superior) air power over the whole of the area in question without having any.

The thing with the Med Gobochul, is that it has dozens of permanent aircraft carriers dotting it. Crete, Malta, Cyprus, Sicily etc etc. All pretty easy to defend against air attacks.

The EU would be able to blockade the strait and then closely follow any warships entering from the Suez Canal, with land based air power.

Russia isn't about to drive tanks to Paris either, so in all honesty, I think the EU just needs to get the balls and take responsibility for their own defence. Not to appease Trump, but so that they can rile the Americans up and resist pressure put on them.

Again, the yanks wouldn't respond because they're too locked up in Korea and the Pacific to be able to divert considerable resources to contain Europe. If they did, this would be seen as a chance by countries like China to assert their claims to places like Taiwan.

The EU would be able to blockade the strait and then closely follow any warships entering from the Suez Canal, with land based air power.

[img] [/img]

This whole scenario is just mental.

The US has complete Global Naval Supremacy.

You deny them the Med and assuming the UK joins the 4th Reich, the North Sea.

Then what?

The US put a load of attack subs in the Med and destroy your fleets and sink whatever shipping it wants, almost at will.

It then controls the rest of the planets oceans and shuts down your trade outside of Europe.

pro European radicalism

As requested please tell me more.