"Trump isn't stupid, so maybe he isn't interested in improving security, and actually wants a permanent terrorist threat to frighten and coerce people with?"
Wouldn't he just kill Muslims if he wanted to do that, killing Muslims didn't hurt Obamas popularity at all. Banning then from Disneyland for 90 days is taken far more seriously by the West, and far less seriously by Militant Islam.
Iran is going to have more of a problem than the travel ban. Trump is going to try and undo the nuclear treaty and his (likely) actions in Israel are going to rub Iran's face in the dirt big time. Trump is certainly Iran's worst nightmare.
I'll say again despite all the consternation here and demonstrations by people who didn't vote for Trump I'll wager in the Trump heartlands they are are loving every minute of this.
possibly
but even thresa may is belatedly criticising him now (well she got the chief clown to call it 'divisive and wrong')
he played May for a fool and now even she will be wary, (but still desperate enough?)
at this rate he wont have any allies left,
well maybe one
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British citizens with dual nationality to one of the "banned countries" are [b]exempt from the ban[/b]
http://news.sky.com/story/dual-citizenship-britons-exempt-from-trump-travel-ban-10748052
Ninfan hits the nail on the head. The people voted for Trump in order that he do this and the wall etc. The court judgement is a minor irritant for a small part of what he is doing. Ernie is quite right too, this ban is better than the worst case "total ban on Muslims"
Better than the worst case, very reassuring for all those people the US has previously welcomed. Must really remind them that all their hard work to become doctors etc was worth it.
Remind me how many people from the countries on the list have travelled to the US to do harm?
This has nothing to do with protecting the US it is all about satisfying the racist idiots.
Yes these countries were on lists where extra checks were carried out (hell they seemed to be working) if only he could direct this level of effort into something that would make a difference like gun control.
Maybe it is a plan to prove the courts are blocking stuff - you know cause the law is wrong man. I go with the more obvious - it's a poorly thought out and rushed exec order that nobody put enough effort into checking its basis in law. It's a sign of the incompetence we should expect from someone who surrounded himself with yes men.
Have we cleared up the mortgage application for the wall yet?
jambalaya - Member
British citizens with dual nationality to one of the "banned countries" are exempt from the banhttp://news.sky.com/story/dual-citizenship-britons-exempt-from-trump-travel-ban-10748052
its a shame that trumps team of incompetents, took 24hrs to get that message across,
of course the damage has been done
and would you trust that message to have reached the airport security? theres reports of dual citizens who have been barred from flights
British citizens with dual nationality to one of the "banned countries" are exempt from the ban
Making it up as they go along really.
He's already out of his depth. He thinks banning Muslims for 90 days "while we figure out what's going on" will be enough time to sort this out. He thinks ordering the military to come up with a plan in 30 days to defeat IS will mean it's a workable plan.
Cloud cuckoo land.
Storm in a Tea Cup ? (Okay maybe not entirely but not as dramatic as reported ..)
In a statement, the Foreign Office said:
:: The ban only applies to individuals travelling from one of the seven countries - Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen
:: Travellers to the US from anywhere other than one of those countries will experience no extra checks regardless of nationality or place of birth
:: UK nationals travelling from one of the seven countries are not included in the ban, even if they were born in one of the countries
:: Dual citizens from one of the seven countries travelling to the US from outside those countries are not affected
:: Dual nationals might experience extra checks if they travel directly from one of the seven nations
[b]Sky's Political Correspondent Tamara Cohen said the guidance was a clarification of the policy, and not a special exemption secured by Mr Johnson.[/b]
719,847
"Better than the worst case, very reassuring for all those people the US has previously welcomed."
It didn't welcome them though, did it. There was already a special visa regime for the 6 'countries of concern'.
Remind me how many people from the countries on the list have travelled to the US to do harm?
This has nothing to do with protecting the US it is all about satisfying the racist idiots.
Then, once again [u][b]why[/b][/u] were six of the seven countries already singled out for special travel/visa restrictions by the Obama government?
jambalaya - Member
@wilburt it really doesn't matter .. 1 million, 2 million, etc
yup itll be debated now, maybot will struggle to justify welcoming trump
she just looked so needy rushing over to hold his hand, was obvious she'd regret that, took less time than I thought though!
look it's a dog with a bone!:lol:ninfan - Member
Remind me how many people from the countries on the list have travelled to the US to do harm?
This has nothing to do with protecting the US it is all about satisfying the racist idiots.
Then, once again why were six of the seven countries already singled out for special travel/visa restrictions by the Obama government?
Then, once again why were six of the seven countries already singled out for special travel/visa restrictions by the Obama government?
[url= https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158/all-actions ]really ?[/url]
only syria and iraq are mention by name in the bill which never made it past the senate and was initiated by house republicans.
@ninfantasist, supply details of the similarities of The Doughnut nad Obama or get back to posting shite videos.
[url= http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/no-barack-obama-jimmy-carter-9717520 ]http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/no-barack-obama-jimmy-carter-9717520[/url]
I know it's the Mirror but you've not produced anything to detail Obama's blanket ban of Muslims from 7 nations.
oldnpastit.
Trump isn't stupid
eh? He's an imbecile. Here's some of the things he said in interviews:
"One of the first orders I’m gonna sign – day one – which I will consider to be Monday as opposed to Friday or Saturday. Right? I mean my day one is gonna be Monday because I don’t want to be signing and get it mixed up with lots of celebration, but one of the first orders we’re gonna be signing is gonna be strong borders."
"Did you ever see a million dollars in hundred dollar bills? It’s a lot. It’s a whole — it’s a lot. $1.7 billion in cash. Plane loads. Of, of — think of it — plane, many planes. Boom. $1.7 billion. I don’t understand"
"Well, it’s similar. We have great love for both countries. These are great countries, great places. It’s very interesting how the UK broke away. I sort of, as you know, predicted it. I was in Turnberry and was doing a ribbon cutting because I bought Turnberry, which is doing unbelievably, and I’ll tell you, the fact that your pound sterling has gone down? Great. Because business is unbelievable in a lot of…"
My niece is 9, if she had as bad spoken English as Trump she'd be held down a year at school......
My niece is 9, if she had as bad spoken English as Trump she'd be held down a year at school......
According to chewkw, he's from Mercia, and they don't speak proper English in that place. You do your niece a disservice.
[url= https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/visa-waiver-program-improvement-and-terrorist-travel-prevention-act-faq ]Yes[/url] [url= https://www.niacaction.org/update-frequently-asked-questions-on-the-visa-waiver-restrictions-may-12/ ]Really[/url] [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/20/visa-waiver-restrictions-iranians-motivated-by-hatred-not-safety ]thats[/url] [url= https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program ]right[/url]
ninfan - Member
@KlunkYes Really thats right
from your own link ninfan...
ndividuals impacted will still be able to apply for a visa using the regular immigration process at our embassies or consulates. For those who need a U.S. visa for urgent business, medical, or humanitarian travel to the United States, U.S. embassies and consulates stand ready to provide visa interview appointments on an expedited basis. The new law does not ban travel to the United States, or admission into the United States, and the great majority of Visa Waiver Program travelers will not be affected.
yeah sounds just like trumps clusterfk and PR disaster, with reibus, conway, spicer etc not making it up on the hoof at all 😉
Individuals impacted will still be able to apply for a visa using the regular immigration process at our embassies or consulates. For those who need a U.S. visa for urgent business, medical, or humanitarian travel to the United States, U.S. embassies and consulates stand ready to provide visa interview appointments on an expedited basis. The new law does not ban travel to the United States, or admission into the United States, and the great majority of Visa Waiver Program travelers will not be affected.
🙂 oops, it was passed as part of the Omnibus Appropriations act It was attached to a bill funding chunks of government [url= https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2016-01-28-F-VWP.pdf ]and seems Obama was not keen[/url] on it but didn't want to shut down government over it
Trump Administration. Chaos ? 325,000 people came into the US yesterday. 109 where detained for additional questioning.
yup itll be debated now, maybot will struggle to justify welcoming trump
Small sidebet it will not be debated. Last debate was held in a sideroom with a handful of participants.
jambalaya - Member
Trump Administration. Chaos ? 325,000 people came into the US yesterday. 109 where detained for additional questioning.
how many were barred from boarding flights though?
does it include green card citizens? dual nationality? etc etc
no one seems to know
trump has been banging on about a muslim ban for the last couple of years, youd think a smart guy like that couldve actually worked out some details in that time
Trump’s statement from December, 2015:Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data showing “25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as a part of the global jihad” and 51% of those polled, “agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Shariah.” Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won’t convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women.
Mr. Trump stated, “Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great Again.
there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population
And now, thanks to a brilliantly poorly thought through snap policy by a man who is not a politician, there is even more hatred. Well done Donald........
imbers - Memberyup itll be debated now, maybot will struggle to justify welcoming trump
I foresee a great debate....
Will one pompous arse be embarrassed by another pompous arse?
No.
Good debate people, glad we had that...
Gonna be big demos if and when Trump comes. I hope he comes to Scotland 'cos the trolling of him last time he was here was world class*. I expect the scots to outdo themselves for his next visit and he won't get the level of protection from the public demonstrating that he will in London ( from previous experience of despots visiting london)
* Mariachi bands to meet him at the airport, Mexican flags all round the boundarys of the golf course and of course
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yup itll be debated now, maybot will struggle to justify welcoming trumpSmall sidebet it will not be debated. Last debate was held in a sideroom with a handful of participants.
It won't be debated. Have a look at the currently open petitions that have 100k+. A number of them have a comment against them stating that the subject has recently been debated before and wont be debated again.
trump has been banging on about a muslim ban for the last couple of years, youd think a smart guy like that couldve actually worked out some details in that time
You mean like rather than banning all Muslims, instead targeting it against the six countries already identified by the department for homeland security and government as being the biggest risks, and requiring additional visa controls?
Details like that you mean?
That must be one tasty bone! 😆
More of this, please:
😆
details?
can trump even identify the affected countries on a map? 😉
as I said before, whether it included green card holders, dual nationality citizens, british etc citezens born in a banned country?
criticism is coming from hawks withinn the GOP for his poorly implemented plan
From the article above:
:: The ban only applies to individuals travelling from one of the seven countries - Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen
:: Travellers to the US from anywhere other than one of those countries will experience no extra checks regardless of nationality or place of birth
:: UK nationals travelling from one of the seven countries are not included in the ban, even if they were born in one of the countries
:: Dual citizens from one of the seven countries travelling to the US from outside those countries are not affected
:: Dual nationals might experience extra checks if they travel directly from one of the seven nations
You mean like rather than banning all Muslims, instead targeting it against the six countries already identified by the department for homeland security and government as being the biggest risks, and requiring additional visa controls?
You mean like the ones that have extra checks already, that may have meant that no terrorist has made it to the US in that time and that the US has been fairly safe from foreign terrorism in that time? You mean something like that?
How about thinking a policy through and communicating it properly so that people know whats going on? Will the US be covering the costs of people who were wrongfully denied boarding? Will they be apologising to all those innocent people who the screwed around with.
Anyway at least Trump was tweeting to reassure people and the white house was available for comment as the whole thing was falling apart.
outofbreath - Member
From the article above:
Which is not what was happening on the ground.
So either he's engaged reverse gear on his policy, or he was just rubbish at organizing it in the first place.
Not a good start either way.
mikewsmith - Member
outofbreath - Member
From the article above:Which is not what was happening on the ground.
nor what trumps own people were saying
And immigration agents are still defying the court order to stop forced deportations, they are still taking green cards of people and are still refusing entry to green card holders
So lets get to the crux of the matter, why do you feel a draconian ban due to irrational paranoia is acceptable?outofbreath - Member:: The ban applies to individuals travelling from one of the seven countries - Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen
I have a feeling that question will be (not) answered with a question
You mean like rather than banning all Muslims, instead targeting it against the six countries already identified by the department for homeland security and government as being the biggest risks, and requiring additional visa controls?
Well he didn't target the county which was clearly identified in Section 1 of the Executive Order:
Section 1. Purpose. The visa-issuance process plays a crucial role in detecting individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States. Perhaps in no instance was that more apparent than the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when State Department policy prevented consular officers from properly scrutinizing the visa applications of several of the 19 foreign nationals who went on to murder nearly 3,000 Americans.
It's all a bit of a muddle, innit?
Almost as if the guys in charge have zero in the way of experience of running anything other than a hotel or a TV show.
As if ignoring the wealth of expertise they have at their disposal and firing off Executive Orders scribbled on the back of a beer mat was ever going to end well.
"So lets get to the crux of the matter, why do you feel a draconian ban due to irrational paranoia is acceptable?"
Straw man. I think it's an utterly stupid and needless policy and on top of that the almost complete lack of consideration of detail is inept.
Maybe he is going for viewing figures as opposed to opinion/satisfaction polls.
so what point you trying to make by trying to back up ninfan?outofbreath - Member
"So lets get to the crux of the matter, why do you feel a draconian ban due to irrational paranoia is acceptable?"Straw man. I think it's an utterly stupid and needless policy and on top of that the almost complete lack of consideration of detail is inept.
km79 has it. When do the phone lines open?
then why the pithy comments
Banning then from Disneyland for 90 days is taken far more seriously by the West, and far less seriously by Militant Islam.
Try being told that you cannot go to the place you live - you know your house. Or maybe that you can't return from holiday as your flight changes in JFK or maybe that the visa you got is now no longer valid for absolutly no reason.
IS can sit back and say to people how much the US hates you now, in these countries especially. Those not on the list can now be targeted as being US friends/special cases. It's a mess.
Just leave him to it on those points, when that's the best response he can mount he's more or less arguing for the other side.
Meanwhile, it turns out that Trump's plan to take on ISIS, which he talked about so much during the election campaign, is to tell someone else to make a plan to take on ISIS. I remember thinking at the time it was like Josh's Secret Plan To Fight Inflation
Meanwhile, it turns out that Trump's plan to take on ISIS, which he talked about so much during the election campaign, is to tell someone else to make a plan to take on ISIS.
And give them 30 days, or else.
Or else what?
Or else what?
your in the first wave "Mad Dog"
*waves at Mad Dog*
Trumps half baked anti-Muslim ban, does indeed only affect a few countries, but initially including green card citizens and then reversing that, (but not telling immigration staff)
The confusion at airports across the globe.
Order signed on Holocaust memorial day, in a country of proud immigrants.
Staff still ignoring federal court order to stop.
this is what it looks like across the world
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Trump is trying to manage it all be tweeting how unfair the media are being...
Hilary must be sitting at home watching the news with a glass of champagne and a reefer , thinking how the fk did I lose to this guy !
"IS can sit back and say to people how much the US hates you now,"
A few pictures of a dead babys after US air strikes is gonna win about 10 billion times more recruits than preventing people travelling to the States for 90 days.
America has been poking Militant Islam with a big stick for 16 years, I don't think this policy is going to make them any angrier.
He'll give em a good twitter lashing, four years he'll be lucky to see out four weeks.
The viewing figures will be good mind
Hilary must be sitting at home watching the news with a glass of champagne and a reefer , thinking how the fk did I lose to this guy !
That's a thread in itself on the entitlement of political dynasties.
An US air strike in a far away country plays in the hand of ISIS but his executive order is doing a lot more damage to the US reputation in the US itself and the allies countries . Hence all the demonstrations and condamnations .
A few pictures of a dead babys after US air strikes is gonna win about 10 billion times more recruits than preventing people travelling to the States for 90 days.
Of course not. The US government can claim that dead children are the tragic consequence of having to fight a brutal war against IS/terrorists/jihadists but still claim "we want to be your friends".
Saying "we don't want your sort coming over visiting our country" will make the claim "we want to be your friends" a lot less convincing.
He'll give em a good twitter lashing, four years he'll be lucky to see out four weeks.
Vegas bookies have cut the odds on Trump lasting 6 months to 4:1.
It's not no, but why does that make criticising it wrong/trivial in your eyes?outofbreath - Member
America has been poking Militant Islam with a big stick for 16 years, I don't think this policy is going to make them any angrier.
This policy is one of trumps first stupid actions*, it's perfectly right that people react to it with anger. He'll perhaps rethink other equally irrational or worse actions in the future. (If not, least people are getting angry at the right things.)
*worthy of talking about.
"four years he'll be lucky to see out four weeks."
Yup.
La critique est aisée, mais l'art est difficile.
He's been pointing out the flaws from the sidelines for years. Now he's in the spotlight and learning that government isn't easy. I think Corbyn's learning a similar lesson.
It's not as if he is getting challenged in the country..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-30/attorneys-general-decry-donald-trump-immigration-order/8222182
"I'm actually proud of being Iranian … did I have a criminal record, do I have any problems or do you even care to look at my background?"Or is it just that one word in my passport that's says 'country of citizenship: Iran'."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-30/donald-trump-travel-ban-stops-iranian-scientist-returning-to-us/8222212
at last he has found his phone charger
Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago
More
The joint statement of former presidential candidates John McCain & Lindsey Graham is wrong - they are sadly weak on immigration. The two...
...Senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III.
Classy
Now announcing clarification via facebook...
https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10158567643610725
Really WTAF - get in front of a camera and try and explain it, let people ask you tough questions, have the conviction to defent your policy.
and once again blaming it on someone else , Obama , and of course the media .
What was the stat ? 30% of population of countries like Egypt (relatively moderate) think that 9/11 was conducted by a combination of Israel and the US to "make Muslims look bad and give them an excuse to bomb us". Had the same type of story on mainstream TV that the Russian passenger jet was blown up shot/down by a combination of US/British/Israeli special forces to "make us look bad".
A travel ban isn't going to make much of a difference to public opinion there. Tunisans are killing toirists and joining IS as largest group,of foreign fighters as they where anti the Arab Spring and democracy which they see as fundamentally un-Islamic. America to some (many) is already the great Satan.
As for Trump's ISIS plan US special forces conducted a ground operation against Al-Q in Yemen with 1 US fatality. I imagine the Saudis where pretty happy about the operation/involvement. Maybe his plan for Syria will be to back the Russians and Syrians going in on the ground.
I am sticking with 2 terms. He'll be President till 2024
What was the stat ? 30% of population of countries like Egypt (relatively moderate) think that 9/11 was conducted by a combination of Israel and the US to "make Muslims look bad and give them an excuse to bomb us".
Egypt mysteriously isn't on the list
http://time.com/4629308/donald-trump-business-deals-world-map/#Egypt
I am sticking with 2 terms. He'll be President till 2024
Nah. He'll be dead by then.
That much fake tan just ain't healthy.
What was the stat ? 30% of population of countries like Egypt (relatively moderate) think that 9/11 was conducted by a combination of Israel and the US to "make Muslims look bad and give them an excuse to bomb us". Had the same type of story on mainstream TV that the Russian passenger jet was blown up shot/down by a combination of US/British/Israeli special forces to "make us look bad".A travel ban isn't going to make much of a difference to public opinion there. Tunisans are killing toirists and joining IS as largest group,of foreign fighters as they where anti the Arab Spring and democracy which they see as fundamentally un-Islamic. America to some (many) is already the great Satan.
As for Trump's ISIS plan US special forces conducted a ground operation against Al-Q in Yemen with 1 US fatality. I imagine the Saudis where pretty happy about the operation/involvement. Maybe his plan for Syria will be to back the Russians and Syrians going in on the ground.
Does one really need to ask for a credible sauce or sauces?
The president of America is having a fb and twitter meltdown. wtf
[quote=jambalaya ]I am sticking with 2 terms. He'll be President till 2024
Unless he gets bored first 🙂
How exactly would one go about changing the rules to allow a 3rd term?
outofbreath - MemberA few pictures of a dead babys after US air strikes is gonna win about 10 billion times more recruits than preventing people travelling to the States for 90 days.
I think Ernie makes a good point but it's also different audiences. Getting blown up is something that most people easily file under "won't happen to me". But start arbitrarily banning normal people because of their citizenship (*) and suddenly a huge number of people are touched or see how easily they can be touched, or seeing friends or colleagues that are affected. The US domiciled family guy who suddenly discovers his wife and kids aren't allowed to come home from their trip to the homeland... Lots and lots of small stories to make lots and lots of people furious and plant seeds.
And where that could really hit home is where it's outside the narrative. Khalas, the Iraqi yazidi who worked with US forces as a translator, whose wife just received her Special Immigrant Visa but was turned away when she tried to fly (and now gets to stay in Iraq, as a member of a victimised minority whose husband worked for the US army and is now in America...). Would you work with the US? This will make people distrust them, it'll turn people against them, and they will be [i]right[/i]. It's a knife in the back of people who've risked their lives to help.
(* and possibly place of birth, nobody actually knows right now including US border officials- people born in these countries but holding no citizenship there have been turned away but that doesn't mean they're supposed to be, because the policy has been devised and launched in such a halfassed way.)
(and possibly nationality, at this point who knows, people have been prevented from entering the US
https://twitter.com/seanspicer/status/825565510418968578
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Read before agreeing?
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I thought @realdonald had to be mothballed, and all El Pres tweets had to come from @potus?
There has to be some very worried people on capital hill right now the US has been overlooked by the terror groups in favour of mainland Europe and Now every unhinged terror group will be burning Stars and Stripes even more so after a botched Yemen strike by US sf looks like it killed woman and children and it was given the go ahead by Trump.
One week in folks
So odds for
Trump going due to ill health ( has he got heart issues )
Trump invaids Canadian soil for oil
Gets shot by right wing nutters
Gets shot by left wing nutters
Attacked by hipsters and given a top knot
ah hell he is doing both
https://twitter.com/potus
and retweeting himself
President Trump will easily complete the first term President then he will go on to his second term as President.
As long as jobs are created and unemployment decreases with stronger economy even all his opponents will sing his praise.
They will sell their soul when the see the money ... trust me they will.
"Show me the money ..." as they shout. 😆
As long as jobs are created and unemployment decreases with stronger economy even all his opponents will sing his praise.
President Trump will easily complete the first term President then he will go on to his second term as President.
Swapping those 2 around... so if he doesn't create jobs and growth he won't make it?
Not see a credible plan yet have we.
I do [i]know[/i] that American's aren't stupid.... I really do [i]know[/i] that. But I'm really struggling to reconcile that with what I'm seeing/hearing
His latest one:
To be clear, this is not a Muslim ban, as the media is falsely reporting. This is not about religion - this is about terror and keeping our country safe.
But.... "a total shutdown of all Muslims coming to the united states" was one of his (most powerful) campaign promises. (I know there is a paper-thin pretense about this being based on geography rather than religion) But now he;s saying that's NOT what he's just done?
How gullible are the trumperists? I think we are going to find out in the next few weeks.....
I do know that American's aren't stupid.... I really do know that. But I'm really struggling to reconcile that with what I'm seeing/hearing
Americans aren't stupid, nor is Trump. But what Trump is is a vain attention-seeking egomaniacal showman. He doesn't care how damage he does just as long as his vain attention-seeking egomaniacal needs are satisfied.
He wants to scar the face of the earth with a 30 foot concrete wall which will stretch from the Atlantic coast to the Pacific coast, and which will remain a lasting monument to him for the whole world to notice.
Plastering his name on huge skyscrapers just isn't enough anymore.
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Causing outrage throughout the world whilst simultaneously arousing the adulation of his supporters has a similar effect.
Trump doesn't care if he's screwing America, or the environment, or sowing discord, division, and hatred. But he's not stupid. All he cares about is that his vain attention-seeking egomaniacal needs are satisfied.
^oh I agree.
I do know that American's aren't stupid.... I really do know that. But I'm really struggling to reconcile that with what I'm seeing/hearing
What I can't understand is that his supporters can't see his bare-faced lies and manipulation..... I mean, it's SO obvious but there is a huge (yuge?) section of society that actually believes what he's saying.
He did say that he could walk out in to the middle of times square and shoot somebody.... and he'd still win. I guess that's it for me - where is the line? Whats he going to have to do before these people stop supporting him?