No, not at all. Also NY is obviously a pretty liberal place.
The question is… Was a 5 minute wriggle with a porn star worth it?
The detail I'm enjoying is that he's not being indicted for cheating on his wife with a porn star, or the fact that he lied about it and paid her off so he could get elected, it's because he claimed it as a business expense the greedy little turd
Is anyone else wondering what face he's going to go for on the mugshot? A smug '**** you' smile? Or an attempt at stern and presidential?
Or scowl like a petulant adolescent
Do you think that if the D.A. had been a Republican we would be in the same place?
Equally, its highly likely a Republican DA would turn a blind eye to "obvious/flagrant" white collar crime by one of their own...
No one is naive enough to dispute that there's an element political motivation to this but Republicans do this all the time and shrug their shoulder (at most). It's in the Democrat make up to get hung up about shit like this but, frankly, it's karma...he's had this coming for a very long time (and, for the record, he's still innocent until proven guilty............)
It’s in the Democrat make up to get hung up about shit like this
The issue isn't about getting hung up, the issue is the effect it will have on Trump's political ambitions.
Central to Trump's appeal is the claim that he is anti-establishment, and central to this narrative is the claim of deep state left-wing conspiracies.
If you wanted to bolster that narrative hounding him over relatively minor stuff that happened a few years ago would be quite a good way to go about it.
I say relatively minor because it is in comparison to the charges of perjury and obstruction of justice which Bill Clinton faced. And certainly relatively minor in comparison to charges of sedition which he should be facing.
What happened at the United States Capitol should result in Donald Trump's political career being permanently destroyed, and the evidence is overwhelming. So why is he being pursued over minor stuff which could possibly play into his tiny hands?
It will be interesting to watch how he deals with being tried with a female judge.
Will he be able to keep his mouth shut when admonished or fight back and end up inside for an indeterminate stretch due to contempt and an inability to apologise to a woman in charge?
So why is he being pursued over minor stuff which could possibly play into his tiny hands?
the rest of it is in the post i reckon. this is the start. maybe the USA needs to have that serious conversation that the proud boys and the rest of the gravy seals think is their due. maybe this is how it happens.
So why is he being pursued over minor stuff which could possibly play into his tiny hands?
There's at least three different entities pursing him for various misdemeanors. Are you suggesting they should coordinate their actions? The very fact that there isn't such coordination should dispell myths of some great anti-Trump conspiracy 😄
Quite right vlad, It will be quite difficult to characterise the forthcoming case in Georgia relating to election interference as partisan or conspiratorial. It was the Republican Secretary of State (Brad Raffensperger) who blew the whistle.
Are you suggesting.....
Well I thought I was suggesting that he should be prosecuted for something which will end his political career, ie sedition/encouraging insurrection, rather than something which a fair few people believe he might possibly milk for his own benefit.
However for whatever reason the fact that I have to repeatedly make the same point suggests that I have obviously failed.
Still, never mind 😀
Edit: Just to be clear my original comment was made in support of this comment made by someone else:
I’m just not quite sure why this is actually so very naughty. I’d far rather see him brought down for what happened on Jan 6th where people died and democracy was properly threatened. That’s what should be sending him to prison.
I am not in the least bit bothered that he is being pursued over Stormy Daniels payment. However as the story has unfurled it has become clear that quite a few pundits believe that Trump could benefit from the belief that he is being victimised.
It will be quite difficult to characterise the forthcoming case in Georgia relating to election interference as partisan or conspiratorial
Sadly not true or more accurately it should be but it wont be. Any semi sane republican will be accused of being a democrat/radical left/liberal/RINO.
Well I thought I was suggesting that he should be prosecuted for something which will end his political career, ie sedition/encouraging insurrection,
You do realise this is still a thing, don't you? Or if you've learnt that the "authorities" (DOJ?) have definitely dropped any possibility of charging him for something related to Jan 6, please do tell cos I may have missed that...
EDIT: as of a few days ago, DOJ still investigating:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/your-guide-to-all-of-the-investigations-into-trump
"maybe the USA needs to have that serious conversation that the proud boys and the rest of the gravy seals think is their due. maybe this is how it happens."
The sooner the better, it might get a bit messy but if the cosplay militias aren't put firmly back in their box (rectangular if needs be) then things will get far worse in the not too distant future,
The greatest threat to US democracy is morons with machine guns. As I said earlier, without access to military grade equipment ,I don't think the 'reveloutionaries' would have had the confidence to invade the Capitol Building.
You do realise this is still a thing,
Yes I do. I am not suggesting that it is either one or the other. It was with reference to people apparently getting excited with regards to the Stormy Daniels payment allegations.
Read the edit to my previous post for more clarification.
There’s at least three different entities pursing him for various misdemeanors. Are you suggesting they should coordinate their actions? The very fact that there isn’t such coordination should dispell myths of some great anti-Trump conspiracy 😄
You mean they are all coincidence?
nothing coincidental about a high profile law breaker facing multiple charges from all quarters.
You mean they are all coincidence?
Eh? Trump has been involved in multiple court cases for what seems like the entirety of his career. Previously, no one was interested as he didn't have the public profile he does now. So it's nothing unusual for him to be battling various courts for various charges....
It was with reference to people apparently getting excited with regards to the Stormy Daniels payment allegations.
Got it. I, too, would rather he was successfully prosecuted for a "more serious" offence (pref related to Jan 6) but he's such a slippery bastard I'd settle for this* just in case nothing else sticks.
* whatever "this" turns out to be when the actual charges are un-sealed. Hopefully, there's an element of serious tax fraud as well...
nothing coincidental about a high profile law breaker facing multiple charges from all quarters.
So not a coincidence then?
Eh? Trump has been involved in multiple court cases for what seems like the entirety of his career. Previously, no one was interested as he didn’t have the public profile he does now. So it’s nothing unusual for him to be battling various courts for various charges….
Before, because he was not a politician so nobody was interested but now he is trouble?
Therefore, they go all out to get Trump deliberately separately?
To me that sounds like having some sort of coordination. It's Murica you know.
Hopefully, there’s an element of serious tax fraud as well…
Good luck with that coz America is built on it.
To me that sounds like having some sort of coordination. It’s Murica you know.
If you smell some sort of conspiracy, I have no problem with that but I don't care whether there is or isn't (though I'm not the sort of person who's drawn towards conspiracy theories anyway).
Sure, a lot of career-minded individuals in important positions probably realize this may be the moment to make a name for themselves (but that's not unique to Trump)
Makes you think.
https://twitter.com/NickAdamsinUSA/status/1641892473118117901
So why is he being pursued over minor stuff which could possibly play into his tiny hands?
Rumours are that there are almost 30 counts in the idictment. At most there could be about 8 of them related to the Stormy Daniels case so I think they've got a lot more on him than a simple 'avoided tax on a dodgy payment'.
Makes you think
He really is the perfect example of poes law.
Sedition carries a maximum sentence of 20 years, just go for that, the evidence must surely be overwhelming? Simple and straightforward I would have thought. If it isn't there is something seriously wrong with the judicial system imo.
I have absolutely no idea if this is the case but it occurred to me that as at the time of the attempted insurrection Trump was commander-in-chief this might in affect mean that he was subject to military law.
If this is the case then a court-martial would seem to be appropriate. I think that the maximum sentence a US military court can impose for sedition is death.
Okay I appreciate that I am entering the realms of fantasy but there is no harm in imagining the worse case possible scenario with regards to Trump's punishment.
Currently he doesn't seem to be suffering that much with apparently a huge fundraising boost and his foes within the Republican Party rallying behind him.
the evidence must surely be overwhelming
So you keep saying, but unless there's a smoking gun that I don't know about, I've not yet seen anything that indicates he can be shown to have directly instigated what happened, to satisfy a jury beyond a reasonable doubt to guarantee a conviction.
I'm sure he wanted it to happen, I'm sure his words were taken to encourage it to happen, but proving it legally, I'm not sure they have enough to risk running it, and risk failing.
unless there’s a smoking gun that I don’t know about,
I am sorry I didn't realise there was any doubt that the mob of Trump supporters that attacked the United States Capitol Building in Washington, to stop a joint session of the United States Congress, did so because they were incited to do so by Trump.
The idea that it had nothing to do with Trump's speech sounds totally bizarre to me.
I thought that Trump's speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of the state provided overwhelming evidence.
As I say, if it is not that straightforward then there is something wrong with the jucial system imo.
Edit: In December, a congressional committee filed an 845-page report on the insurrection at the White House on 6 January 2021.
They concluded that Mr Trump and his allies had a "multipart plan to overturn the 2020 presidential election", including the attack on the Capitol.
Is that ^^ the smoking gun that you were looking for?
Is that ^^ the smoking gun that you were looking for?
Not really. He is a one trick pony but is very good at being vague about things and mostly hinting rather than giving direct instructions.
So did he cheerlead and incite them?
In casual conversation I would go with yes but in the beyond reasonable doubt and courtroom level evidence I think I would have to go with not beyond reasonable doubt.
According to the congressional committee, and their 845-page report, there is sufficient evidence , they recommended that Trump be indicted on four criminal charges.
they recommended that Trump be indicted on four criminal charges.
Which is not the same as overwhelming evidence that will guarantee a conviction. I hope he goes down for it, but I'm not sure he will.
Okay fair enough maybe not for you but for me it is overwhelming :
Some of it, such as points 9 and 11, is either factually correct or not factual correct. It should be quite simple to establish in a court what is factually correct.
The congregational committee didn't seem to have a problem and stated it as fact.
Where is Binners when one of his graphics is needed?
Some posters are incredibly tedious - and have been for too long on threads about UK politics - but seem to think that linking to other people's words lends weight to their posts.
Are they as tedious in real life? Assuming, of course, they have a real life.
Yawn.
@ernielynch
If he gets tried for sedition, and if you and I were on the jury, I think it's highly likely that we would vote him guilty. But, for whatever reason, the wheels of justice are turning very slowly in the DOJ. I'm hoping they are building a watertight case but equally, they might be bricking it because of potential fall-out and are just kicking the can down the road hoping the problem goes away...
for whatever reason, the wheels of justice are turning very slowly in the DOJ
From what I understand, Merrick Garland is a very methodical guy. He will want to make sure that any charges they eventually bring are backed up by solid evidence and the case isn't dismissed because of silly mistakes. Yes, everyone knows that Trump incited an insurrection, but that's not actually evidence that will stand up in court. What they need to do is to go through untold thousands of emails, text messages, video clips, etc. and collect evidence that he knew the effect his words were having and that he wanted a violent uprising, not a peaceful demonstration. That will be backed up with interviews of key witnesses, etc. It takes a huge amount of time to put all that together.
Just because those are the most serious charges doesn't mean that he shouldn't also be charged with any other less serious charges in other jurisdictions. The NY case is totally unrelated to the Georgia case and the insurrection case. They are all being investigated by different people in different places so charges in one case aren't being traded off for charges in another.
From what I’m reading the Georgia charges are very serious as he was recorded trying to coerce a state election official into “finding” home 13,000 votes.
Then there are also rumours that his accountant of 30 years has flipped. The accountant kept double books, has already been found guilty and is currently serving 5 months in Rikers Island, and is now facing new charges.
While the wheels of justice are turning slowly they’re going to catch up with him in the end, and whilst it may prove a boost to his base and his fundraising a lot of Americans are seeing him for what he is. The constant drip drip of info will erode support from the more rational GOP voters leaving only a fanatical base who will eventually do something really stupid a là Timothy McVeigh which will backfire spectacularly on Trump.
Just because those are the most serious charges doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t also be charged with any other less serious charges in other jurisdictions.
No, but as the less serious charges won't necessarily bar him from standing in the next presidential election in which he is currently the front runner for the Republican nomination, and that the announcement of imminent charges has so far resulted in a $4 million fundraising boost and all his staunch opponents within the GOP rallying behind him, all without the certainty that he won't be acquitted, is it really something to get particularly excited about? Forgive me if I'm not.
but equally, they might be bricking it because of potential fall-out and are just kicking the can down the road hoping the problem goes away…
Politically, the biggest problem appears to be that Republican supporters will see the latest developments as part of a witch hunt, especially as the very serious charges against Bill Clinton never amounted to anything.
The less serious the allegations the more it starts looking like a witch hunt. Calling for the overthrow of the government and fermenting violence is in a class of its own, even senior Republicans were appalled.
If they are worried about the fallout of pursuing the case the prosecution could, I would have thought, perhaps just call for him to be barred from all future elections.
I agree that the wheels of justice are turning very slowing, altogether there are five criminal and civil investigations currently into Trump, it's been over three months since the congressional committee released their 845-page report and called for Trump to be indicted on criminal charges, and he has yet to appear in front of a judge.
is it really something to get particularly excited about?
An ex-president indicted on criminal charges. Yes, that's something to get excited about. It has never happened before.
the announcement of imminent charges has so far resulted in a $4 million fundraising boost
Excellent - as already stated, it strengthens his position in the GOP, and weakens it with the wider electorate. Biden got in mainly on an "anyone but Trump" ticket and those swing voters are unlikely to go back to a Trump facing legal battles, or a party that supported him.
those swing voters are unlikely to go back to a Trump facing legal battles, or a party that supported him.
Ah, that's good news.
swing voters are unlikely to go back to a Trump facing legal battles
He's trying to run for president, but the voters that he needs to impress are constantly reminded of his sleaze and corruption. Nobody can really keep track of all the scandals he's generated, they just blur together, so reminding people of the specific things will be a constant drag on his campaign.
As I say, if it is not that straightforward then there is something wrong with the jucial system imo.
There is, many judges are gifted with jobs for life, and are frequently political appointees, often by Republicans. You only have to look at one particular Supreme Court judge, and the political activities of his wife to see that there’s nothing bipartisan about the court.
35,000 Police on standy by!
The New York City Police Department, state law enforcement agencies, the Secret Service and the U.S. Marshals Service have all been coordinating efforts, while increasing intelligence gathering and mobilization. The police, for instance, sent a stand-ready order to about 35,000 officers, a force larger and better trained than some national armies.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/03/us/politics/donald-trump-nypd-arraignment-jan-6.html
Good job he's not got form for organising mass protests....
