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I thought Trump's "drain the swamp" rhetoric was mainly about removing power from lobbyists and special interests groups
I wonder if he will include the NRA?
I thought Trump's "drain the swamp" rhetoric was mainly about removing power from lobbyists and special interests groups
Don't forget those crazy ****s otherwise known as pro-lifers
What I think is that Trump is actually going to do ok,
I think it kinda depends which version of Trump we actually get.
Of course Not coz that would be foolish.slowoldman - Member
I thought Trump's "drain the swamp" rhetoric was mainly about removing power from lobbyists and special interests groups
I wonder if he will include the NRA?
However, everyone will definitely support him for going after ghost guns.
I bet that is very low down on list of priority.somafunk - Member
Don't forget those crazy **** otherwise known as pro-lifers
He will do okay if not better.GrahamS - Member
What I think is that Trump is actually going to do ok,
I think it kinda depends which version of Trump we actually get.
My hope is that any legislation aimed to remove the lobbyist groups that his Alt Right fans disapprove of (e.g. civil liberties, equality and environmental lobby groups) will also limit other lobby groups like the NRA, pro-lifers, etc
That would be interesting. 😀
yeah looking out for the little guy
President Donald Trump is set to give America’s richest 1% an average annual tax cut of $214,000 when he takes office, while more than eight million families with children are expected to suffer financially under his proposed tax plan.On the eve of the election, Trump promised to “massively cut taxes for the middle class, the forgotten people, the forgotten men and women of this country, who built our country”. But independent expert analyses of Trump’s tax plan show that America’s millionaire and billionaire class will win big at the expense of struggling low- and middle-income people, who turned out in large numbers to help the real estate billionaire win the election.
Experts warn that Trump’s tax plan will exacerbate America’s already chronic income inequality and herald in a “new era of dynastic wealth”.
chewk you and millions of americans are in for a big dissapointment
Ya, but the article is written by the guardian. 😆kimbers - Member
chewk you and millions of americans are in for a big dissapointment
The only lobbyist groups that should be removed are those defined by the new administration as against the people of Merica whatever or whoever they are.GrahamS - Member
[url= http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/facebook-bans-retired-navy-officer-for-criticizing-actual-****ing-nazis/ ]Trumps Amreica[/url]
So only lobbyists promoting fossil fuels, guns and tobacco I imagine, stuff that's good for America.....
So only lobbyists promoting fossil fuels, guns and tobacco I imagine, stuff that's good for America.....
If they poison, shoot and smoke themselves to death. What can I say? What can I say?
you can check out the source chewk, but it is written by an expert so you may not approve 😉
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2842802
this popped up on my ipod today
sadly very apt for Trumpworld
just coz clint mansell is all about respectability and oscars today, he was quite prescient 20 years ago!
Listen to the victim, abused by the system
The basis is racist, you know that we must face this.
"It can't happen here". Oh yeah?
"Take a look around at the cities and the towns."See them hunting, creeping, sneaking
Breeding fear and loathing with the lies they're speaking
The knife, the gun, broken bottle, petrol bomb
There is no future when the past soon come.And when they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Or laugh through a glass eye as they rape our lives
Trampled underfoot by the right on the rise[CHORUS}
"You owe us..."
Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You owe us... EVERYTHING"
Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You owe us..."
Ich Bin Ein Auslander
"You owe us... EVERYTHING"
Ich Bin Ein AuslanderWelcome to a state where the politics of hate
Shout loud in the crowd "Watch them beat us all down"
There's a rising tide in the rivers of blood
But if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silenceIf they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right[CHORUS]
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
Ich Bin Ein Auslander.
The only lobbyist groups that should be removed are those defined by the new administration as against the people of Merica whatever or whoever they are.
Well that isn't what he has said chewkw.
He said that ALL registered state and federal lobbyists are banned from serving on his team and that he will introduce a five year ban on people in administration becoming lobbyists after they leave.
Interesting paper, thanks. Firstly I don't why the NY Law School is writing papers on tax ? Secondly do they have the final details of the proposals, I would imagine Trump and his team have far from finalised the plan ? Thirdly (and related) here is a quote from page 14
Finally, the Trump campaign stated that “Trump will instruct the committees writing his plan into law to make sure that it does not raise taxes on any low- or middle-income earners.”
Enjoyed the song. Released in 1994 so the right didn't take over in last 20 years and there was no ethnic cleansing, more of the opposite if anything.
. Released in 1994 so the right didn't take over in last 20 years and there was no ethnic cleansing,
indeed
so its no time to drop our guard down now
Give it time Jambas, they're just getting warmed up.
Poppies, bit shit really.
This is the guy that people are sticking up for:
This is interesting
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b083h0tp ]As the dust settles on America's most controversial election, BBC Radio 4 asks five writers to give their view on where America goes now.
In this programme, the journalist and author Andrew Sullivan gives his verdict on why Hillary Clinton lost the election.
He argues that she was - from the start - unelectable.
Producer: Adele Armstrong.
[/url]
"Released in 1994 so the right didn't take over in last 20 years and there was no ethnic cleansing, more of the opposite if anything"
Maybe the song should have been "Cry Wolf".
Had Trump invested his inheritence ($40m) in the S&P500 in 1975 he would now be worth $226m assuming he never had to pay any tax. SP 375 to 2130 today
And if he'd put it in the bank and got 5% a year - $295m. 7% would have been $640m.
That's odd, this calculator has his 'would be' worth at 3 billion dollars in 2013 using the S&P.
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/investing/historical-returns-investing-calculator.aspx
I'm not quite sure about Clinton being "unelectable".
Jambalaya, every article that calculates how much he would have been worth if he'd understand say 3 billion upwards, how do you get your figures?
I think just using the index itself as a guide but not including dividends and their reinvestment in the fund.
[quote=akira ]Jambalaya, every article that calculates how much he would have been worth if he'd understand say 3 billion upwards, how do you get your figures?
he makes them up whilst ignoring the data and research.
Why do you need to ask?
Not dinner time yet and nothing on TV so I'm poking the bear. Bit like pulling of a scab, I know I shouldn't as underneath it's raw and unpleasant but I can't help it.
@martin the index itself includes dividend reinvestment - all indices work that way - the day a stock pays a dividend it's reinvested in the index itself at the daily close. I looked up the S&P 500 (ie largest 500 US companies and what is commonly known as THE S&P index. Your link references something else compiled by a Harvard Professor inc lots of smaller cap companies ? Maybe that index went up another 10x ?). This is what I used 375 to 2130 on $40m
http://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-data
@Junky if I may say so you are heading in a direction likely to end in a bad place from your perspective, asuming you like contributing here that is.
Final Result (barring Green Party challenge) - first Republican to win Michigan since 1988
Trump 306
Clinton 232
That's a landslide and he won substantially less votes, he really was smart at understanding and maximising the system.
Sky News summary piece was interesting I thought
Had Trump invested his inheritence ($40m) in the S&P500 in 1975 he would now be worth $226m assuming he never had to pay any tax. SP 375 to 2130 today
I must have read a different article when I posted his S&P wealth calculator a few days ago, but hey, what does the internet know?
How's the Wisconsin recount going? I assume that The Doughnut is fully behind this, given that his dummy was practically spat when the thought he was losing.
Jambalaya, can I just clarify that you're threatening junky might get banned if he keeps on disagreeing with your 'facts'? I'm all for heated debate but if you can't take criticism then don't talk politics on the internet.
I am more than happy to have a lively debate although to be honest I don't' read much JY posts so I debate with him directly very very rarely these days
he makes them up whilst ignoring the data and research.Why do you need to ask?
This isn't debating (similar on other threads recently) and he's been banned in the past for similar years before I even joined the site (he has never been reported by me) .. I was just trying to be helpful
@captain and @martin yes agreed those calculators and others show much higher cumulative returns and all of them reference the same professor's work. Indeed what I did may be too simplistic but the results are wildly different - to trun $40 into $4bn you need a cumulative return of about 12.5% after any tax and if you are trading stocks and taking dividends there are very substantial taxes.
to trun $40 into $4bn you need a cumulative return of about 12.5%
Plus of course you need to live on fresh air and sleep in a ditch - after all, you can't buy food with reinvested dividends.
Edit: or for that matter live in a gold skyscraper and marry a sports illustrated swimwear model twenty five years your junior.
he really was smart at understanding and maximising the system.[list]
I think he has been very good at telling many lies to many different people
and because he did it in an unconventional way hes made more people believe him
even though he has no intention or ability to go through with so many of his 'pledges'
eg
-locking up hillary - nope
-building a wall - maybe a fence now
-deporting all the illegal mexicans- impossible
-draining the swamp - by appointing lots of lobbyists and career republicans he had denounced
-ending obamacare - he doesnt mind it now
-destroy ISIS in his first 30 days - 🙄
-end globalisation - good luck with that
- massive infrastructure spend - the republican congress will shit the bed over that one
a huge range of promises on trade and international relations, that are far more complicated than hed like to pretend
the lowest fact check rating for any politician !!
all these soundbites promising everything to everyone is how he got lifelong democrats to vote for him in the rust belt and has neo-nazis saluting him in DC
Hes just a con man, a 'reality' TV star thats perfect fit for the post-truth politics we see today
Don't forget those crazy **** otherwise known as pro-lifers
Mike Pence is Pro life to the point of even making noises about making abortions illegal regardless of the circumstances. So they will be in the crazy position where even if a Doctor needs to abort a fetus to save a woman's life, they run the risk of going to jail.
Best way I've heard this summed up and applies to the UK as well, due to our electoral choices is that we are now having to make choices between the abhorrent, the despicable and the outright evil.
the irony is I am using file blocker on him and i am actually replying to other folk [you]who mention him rather than debating with him on this thread. IMHO his "opinions"* are a fact free void and i am not alone in this view. Will we all get banned for pointing out your "facts" are wrong? Have you noticed we all put "fact" in quotations to you.Jambalaya, can I just clarify that you're threatening junky might get banned if he keeps on disagreeing with your 'facts'? I'm all for heated debate but if you can't take criticism then don't talk politics on the internet.
He just makes it up and then ignores the evidence - has he changed his view on trumps wealth when presented with the evidence or explained how he reached his figures ?
I really have no idea what he said but i will be surprised if he evidenced it, amazed if it supported his view and flabbergasted if he changed his opinion based on facts.
* he seems to use this word when debating actual facts
"taking the piss is the only option."
The typical cry of the bully, it's not your fault you had to do it, the victim made you.
I got banned for a week for misspelling Jambas name, gave up on him and his lies after that, who knew that he had such paper thin skin.
When I say misspelling it was more a corruption to hilight the whoppers he keeps spouting.
@captain and @martin yes agreed those calculators and others show much higher cumulative returns and all of them reference the same professor's work. Indeed what I did may be too simplistic but the results are wildly different - to trun $40 into $4bn you need a cumulative return of about 12.5% after any tax and if you are trading stocks and taking dividends there are very substantial taxes.
It hasn't gone unnoticed that no one knows how wealthy he is, how much tax he pays or how he actually makes his money.
And he's now president elect, a man of the people. A man who is probably going to try and use the presidency to feather his own nest further.
It does, though, look like there are politicians around him who are directing policy and reigning is more outrageous statements. Long may he continue to be a puppet president.
"I got banned for a week for misspelling Jambas name,"
Yes, that's mental, but Jamba isn't the moderator.
problem is he is a puppet with a child like ability to have a temper tantrum and he is prone to irrational outbursts when his ego is bruised
He would fit in a treat on here 😉
i do wonder now if its the norm if a party's vote doesn't go there way is it customary to whine and riot and protest and maybe ask for a recount / referendum ?
Often when the votes are very close
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount
But it happens a lot
https://newrepublic.com/article/138479/america-no-stranger-election-violence
Trump and the alt-right media repeatedly claimed that the vote was rigged and he refused to say if he'd respect the results if he lost
As did Farage when he declared a narrow loss of 48/52 would be unfinished business
Demagogues eh!
Trump’s incitement of violence and denigration of the integrity of American elections do, in fact, risk the resumption of ugly historic patterns.
The civil war was sparked by southern states refusal to accept Abraham Lincoln as president
good reply, thx
saw this today
[img] 
[/img]
Saw this today.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38143394 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38143394[/url]
I doubt having eco in the name of the game helps either.
I imagine The Donald couldn't be more pleased as he'd pick Top Trump over Eco Action Trump anyday 🙂
I imagine The Donald couldn't be more pleased as he'd pick Top Trump over Eco Action Trump anyday
Flat earthers are right with you on that one too.
🙂
I'm not a huge fan of Monbiot but this is worth a read.
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/30/donald-trump-george-monbiot-misinformation ]Frightened by Donald Trump?[/url]
I got banned for a week for misspelling Jambas name,
I doubt it and you didn't get reported by me. You can call me J or Andy either is fine with me.
Junky I am just thinking of you, you keep setting yourself up chasing me around on threads and you've hacked off enough people one of them will report you
In other news my ex-colleague has indeed been confirmed as Treasury Secretary. Very nice guy and super smart. Very hardworking considering how wealthy he is, not sure I would bother. Didn't know he was behind the financing of X-men and American Sniper.
Saw this in a FB comment and it made me chortle:
[b]Donald Trump answers the question: What is 2+2?[/b]"I have to say a lot of people have been asking this question. No, really. A lot of people come up to me and they ask me. They say, "What's 2+2"? And I tell them look, we know what 2+2 is. We've had almost eight years of the worst kind of math you can imagine. Oh my god, I can't believe it. Addition and subtraction of the 1s the 2s and the 3s. Its terrible. Its just terrible. Look, if you want to know what 2+2 is, do you want to know what 2+2 is? I'll tell you.
First of all the number 2, by the way I love the number 2. It's probably my favorite number, no it is my favorite number. You know what, it's probably more like the number two but with a lot of zeros behind it. A lot. If I'm being honest, I mean, if I'm being honest. I like a lot of zeros. Except for Marco Rubio, now he's a zero that I don't like. Though, I probably shouldn't say that. He's a nice guy but he's like, "10101000101", on and on, like that. He's like a computer! You know what I mean? He's like a computer. I don't know. I mean, you know.
So, we have all these numbers and we can add them and subtract them and add them. TIMES them even. Did you know that? We can times them OR divide them, they don't tell you that, and I'll tell you, no one is better at the order of operations than me. You wouldn't believe it. That I can tell you. So, we're gonna be the best on 2+2, believe me. OK? Alright. Thank you."
excellent article here
When I say misspelling it was more a corruption to hilight the whoppers he keeps spouting.
I wondered what that attack of the collywobbles was. 😯
I wondered what that attack of the collywobbles was.
What's that Woppit
jambalaya - Member
In other news my ex-colleague has indeed been confirmed as Treasury Secretary
A bit of a u-turn from Trump's pre-election rhetoric:
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_582caddbe4b058ce7aa8b9c0/amp?client=ms-android-htc-rev ]Topping off the swamp[/url]
UPDATE: Nov. 30 ? President-elected Donald Trump has tapped Steven Mnuchin, a former Goldman Sachs banker with ties to Hollywood, to be his Treasury Secretary.Mnuchin confirmed the news to CNBC on Wednesday.
PREVIOUSLY:
Donald Trump said the system is rigged. He said hedge fund managers are “getting away with murder.” He said that he’d “tax Wall Street.” He called Washington D.C. corrupt and promised to “drain the swamp.” He said his opponent Hillary Clinton was too cozy with the banks, as epitomized by her closed-door paid speeches. He said Clinton’s vice presidential nominee, Tim Kaine, was “owned by the banks” and that he, Trump, would break them up. Trump closed his campaign with an ad bashing Goldman Sachs and George Soros, using classically anti-Semitic phrases.
And now, according to The New York Times, ABC and CBS, the president-elect has chosen a second-generation Goldman Sachs partner who worked for George Soros before starting a hedge fund
Lifer I used to sit next to Steve Mnuchin he is a fabulous guy and very smart (he seems to have done a bit more than I with his 53 years 😉 ). Trump is absolutely changing the guard and deliberately hiring people from outside traditional Washington circles as much as possible. He can also argue "draining the swap" meant of Democrats
That doesn't change what Trump said though.
Trump is absolutely changing the guard and deliberately hiring people from outside traditional Washington circles
Utter rubbish
Trump is absolutely changing the guard and deliberately hiring people from outside traditional Washington circles as much as possible. He can also argue "draining the swap" meant of Democrats
Tell that to chewkw who [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/donald-trump/page/80?replies=2862#post-8107053 ]just a couple of pages ago[/url] was telling us that "draining the swamp" specifically meant getting rid of Goldman Sachs!
🙂
I have a sneaky feeling Trump is just f'king with Romney, making him look stupid and then he is just going to hire Giuliani. I do see the irony of having a Morman as Secretary of State
I also wonder how many of those who voted for Trump had their houses foreclosed by Mnuchin.
Ya, draining the swamp ... those Goldman Sachs whoever that are supporting Democrats ...GrahamS - Member
Trump is absolutely changing the guard and deliberately hiring people from outside traditional Washington circles as much as possible. He can also argue "draining the swap" meant of Democrats
Tell that to chewkw who just a couple of pages ago was telling us that "draining the swamp" specifically meant getting rid of Goldman Sachs!
"Ya, you're fire! Off you go!" (referring to G.Sachs and Democrats ) 😆
Ya, what Romney said about Trump in the election campaign and now going to see Trump ... Ya, just prove to the world that Romney is not a person with principle.jambalaya - Member
I have a sneaky feeling Trump is just f'king with Romney, making him look stupid and then he is just going to hire Giuliani. I do see the irony of having a Morman as Secretary of State
chewkw: you are happy that Trump [i]"getting rid of Goldman Sachs"[/i] involves appointing a former Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs, who worked there for 17 years, as his new Treasury Secretary? 😕
The reference was made about Goldman Sachs etc referring to them having direct involvement (lobbying) in the govt while still being "paid" by G.Sachs (there are other lobbyists as well) as in President Obama administration.GrahamS - Member
chewkw: you are happy that Trump "getting rid of Goldman Sachs" involves appointing a former Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs, who worked there for 17 years, as the new Treasury Secretary?
Absolute la-la land
Do you think those lobbyists will have less or more access now one of their former colleagues is in office?
@Pigface actually on further reflection it might have been me, sorry to have mislead you.
I also wonder how many of those who voted for Trump had their houses foreclosed by Mnuchin.
Very few I imagine, he bought a failed bank and sold it fairly soon after.
Mnuchin is Goldman all right, his father is regarded as the founder of equity block trading and a partner before him.
Slashing the tax rate to 15% could well work. Currently with a 40%+ corporate tax rate people just shelter money offshore. Why would Apple route all it's business throigh Ireland when it can pay the same tax rate in the US. As Mnuchin says this cut in tax rate may lead to inreased tax revenues and economic activity.
Slashing the tax rate to 15% could well work. Currently with a 40%+ corporate tax rate people just shelter money offshore. Why would Apple route all it's business throigh Ireland when it can pay the same tax rate in the US. As Mnuchin says this cut in tax rate may lead to inreased tax revenues and economic activity.
Sounds highly plausible - except wouldn't the previous Administrations already have thought of that and decided the disadvantages outweighed the advantages? They must have actuaries/civil servants calculating the best tax rates to set, if not they really should.
Oh don't get me wrong there will still be lobbyists but just different kinds ... not the kind that support Democrats.Lifer - MemberAbsolute la-la land
Do you think those lobbyists will have less or more access now one of their former colleagues is in office?
Oh good, just Republican lobbyists?
So pro-life, pro-gun, anti-gay, pro-fossil fuel, anti-climate change, pro-creationism, anti-science lobbyists?
Phew, that's all right then 🙄
Well it will be interesting to see what this actually means...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-01/donald-trump-announces-he-will-be-leaving-business/8081384
Seems like it will be contentious anyway
Reince Priebus, Mr Trump's incoming White House chief of staff, told MSNBC's Morning Joe "that'll all be worked out".He demurred when asked if Mr Trump planned to put his businesses in a blind trust — as presidents have traditionally done — or leave them in his children's hands.
"I'm not ready to reveal that really," he said.
Senior ethics lawyers who have served under both Republican and Democrat presidents have expressed scepticism about Mr Trump's plan.
US Senator Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat, said he is pushing for a resolution requiring Mr Trump to establish a truly independent body to manage his holdings — not just passing it on to his children.
"We know the close relationship he has with his children, we know that they're involved in the way that he reaches decisions," Senator Cardin said.
"That wouldn't be a blind trust, that wouldn't be a circumstance where the trustee doesn't have access to the president."
Richard Painter, the chief ethics counsel to president George W Bush, has urged Electoral College members to refuse to make Mr Trump the next president unless he sells his business interests.
Stephen Gillers, a professor who specialises in ethics at New York University School of Law, said Mr Trump's children should also end their association with the business.
"What he needs to do is get to the place where Trump's interest in profit of any Trump entity is the same as my interest or your interest or the interest of the person on the street," Mr Gillers said.
Interesting how it plays out much like his tax returns, he doesn't have to, but, he's not obliged to, but, he knows how to handle it, but...
I thought the other one was the problem for conflict of interest 😉
The emoluments clause in the constitution might cause him issues, public officials being prohibited if taking payment of any kind whatever from any king, prince or foreign state means without big rearrangement of his business he'll be in breach of the constitution almost immediately after taking office.
3 former Goldman Sachs employees
isnt that the opposite of what Chewk claimed Trump was all about, and theyve also lobbied democrats and republicans in the past
hes draining the swamp, yeah right
presidential debate out-takes...
Cabinet of the people 😉
[img] 
[/img]
I'm sure the working class is rejoicing in the streets already
Mr Trump hailed his negotiations with Carrier Corp as a model for how he would work with other US businesses thinking of moving their jobs abroad.
"We are going to have a situation where they are going to know, number one, we're going to treat them well and, number two, there will be consequences," he said.
"They will be taxed very heavily at the border if they want to leave."
And on trade this should be a warning to those that think the UK could be in line for a "fantastic" deal it won't be in the UK's favour I'd say.
Have we done this yet?
@mike the logic is they are already rich so they can't be bought by lobbyists / industry etc.
Free trade with other rich countries makes sense. You don't loose manufacturing to a low cost producer for example. A free trade deal with the UK, US and say Canada is obvious, Mexico is more troublesome as the US has experienced.
It's also worth remembering that the rich like to get richer... conflict of interest will probably dominate the headlines for a bit longer now.
As for trade the US has benifitted from trade with places like Mexico, it's one of the things that has kept the cost of products lower, just like China. The US struggles to compete so the only way is to cut tax, tax imports etc. The US car industry certainly didn't benifit long term from protectionism it just ended up being more screwed and out of touch.