[Closed] Donald! Trump!

so it is a wig or not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37862521

Amongst other things that DT's pledged in the first 100 days is: "Repealing every Obama executive order".

Is that practical?

EU expansion was, IMO, very similar to NAFTA

That is a plausible argument that deserves discussion.

It is quite interesting how the word "elite" is becoming an insult, along with "expert" and "liberal".

Probably because a small minority of people have established themselves at the top of the pile and created a fundamentally different set of rules by which they abide. Rules which entrench their position at the expense of pretty much everyone else.

I'm all for expertise and a dose of social liberalism - elitism not so much.

"You dont always get what you want/wish for"

As lady on news just noted, the press and polls consistently missed the story of a lifetime.

That's precisely what I mean jamj1974.

The word "elite" has become a loaded insult. The fact that you equate it with ignoring rules and stepping on other people demonstrates exactly that.

Somewhat ironic that a white, corporate, multi billionaire that steamrollers everything in his path is seen as the man of the people.

Or is it just me?

Somewhat ironic that a white, corporate, multi billionaire that steamrollers everything in his path is seen as the man of the people.

Or is it just me?

The point may have been made once or twice 😉

But it's Brexit writ large, isn't it.

Yes. Only a billionare could sell himself as a man of the people. **** off Trump you nob.

Somewhat ironic that a white, corporate, multi billionaire that steamrollers everything in his path is seen as the man of the people.

Or is it just me?

Same as Farage innit?

Step 1: always be pictured with a suitably "working class" accessory no matter how incongruous or forced it looks. In the UK a pint of beer is good, in the US a baseball cap works well.

Step 2: say very un-PC things that upset "the establishment" to demonstrate how very different you are to them.

Step 3: make outrageous pledges that you can't possibly keep and have no intention of keeping.

Step 4: turn every criticism of your pledges into further evidence that you are outside "the establishment".

Step 5: win.

It's normally way outside of what I would say but in this case Ben afflick and some melons, go on fella go on

[quote=jamj1974 ]It is quite interesting how the word "elite" is becoming an insult, along with "expert" and "liberal".
Probably because a small minority of people have established themselves at the top of the pile and created a fundamentally different set of rules by which they abide. Rules which entrench their position at the expense of pretty much everyone else.
I'm all for expertise and a dose of social liberalism - elitism not so much.

And a guy worth $3.7 billion isn't elite?

He's a man of the people?

Will there be hat trick? 😀

Brexit 1

Trump 1

EU system = ? Still around in the next 5 to 10 years? Me hope to see EU system gone in me lifetime but me actually want it gone in the next 5 years.

[quote=outofbreath > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37862521
Amongst other things that DT's pledged in the first 100 days is: "Repealing every Obama executive order".
Is that practical?

Here's Obama's executive orders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders_13489_and_above

EU system = ? Still around in the next 5 to 10 years? Me hope to see EU system gone in me lifetime but me actually want it gone in the next 5 years.

amj1974 » It is quite interesting how the word "elite" is becoming an insult, along with "expert" and "liberal".
Probably because a small minority of people have established themselves at the top of the pile and created a fundamentally different set of rules by which they abide. Rules which entrench their position at the expense of pretty much everyone else.
I'm all for expertise and a dose of social liberalism - elitism not so much.
And a guy worth $3.7 billion isn't elite?

He's a man of the people?

And if a vote for Trump was an "anti-Elite" vote then more people voted against Trump. So are more than 50% of American voters a part of the elite? Mind you, it's just the same as Brexit. A tiny majority is interpreted as the singular "will of the people" and a blow for the elite (48%) by the normal hard-working folk (52%).

I hope in my lifetime we will have no borders, have no national interest only that of the planet we all inhabit.

Can't argue with that - just hope you have a long time left to live...

mikewsmith - Member
I hope in my lifetime we will have no borders, have no national interest only that of the planet we all inhabit.

But in your/our life time we shall witness EU bureaucratic system being dismantled that I am sure of ...

to get to that situation so long as no one hijack it while getting there.

I hope in my lifetime we will have no borders, have no national interest only that of the planet we all inhabit.

If we are invaded by Aliens we may all come together as one human race. Until that day we'll fight among ourselves as that's what we do.

I'm not sure the vote for Trump was a vote against the elite as much as it was sticking a great big middle finger up to the rest of the World: The World that brought them ISIS, Russia, North Korea etc. Clinton, as Secretary of State, was seen as the link between the USA and a very bad World, out to get America and all it's citizen's freedoms.

The paranoia is rubbish, of course, but never underestimate the power of fear.

mikewsmith - Member
the usual suspects keep trying too.

TMH the next line is something like "but you get what you NEED" .. Democrats haven't got what they wanted but what they need ?

@clod I agree with your sentiments on Clinton. We all felt Trump couldn't win a year ago but the fact is Clinton is so corrupt and dishonest she was no match for him.

As for popular vote Trump has been solidly ahead where he needs to be, who cares he lost heavily in CA and NY ? That's the voting system. On nuances some interesting stats, Trump did better than Mitt Romney in 2012 with Hispanic vote, white women favoured Trump over Clinton, black voters backed Clinton 90 vs 10 but I do wonder about turnout now Obama is gone, white non college educated men where heavily Trump but instead of insulting them as "stupid" its an indication they felt the globalised economy has failed people in modestly paying jobs.

Clinton is so corrupt

This was never satisfactorily explained to me. She been taking bribes or something? The emails don't seem to indicate corruption do they?

jambalaya - Member
...the globalised economy has failed people in modestly paying jobs...

...who have the misfortune to live in a rich country where no effort at all is made to re-distribute the wealth.

What @mickey says. The US had to be dragged into WW2 in Europe by Churchill, there is a very real sense in the US that the rest of the world expects them to be the military police (3.6% gdp spend on defence) and then spends the whole time whinning about their involvement. I strongly suspect if/when the US scales back it's intervention those complaining now will be shouting even more loudly about human rights abuses etc. I have posted before I think our defense spending should be more like 3% than 2%

I posted a list in responce to @mike's question about 4 things Trump would be good for and getting NATO members to pull their weight financially is one of them

We all felt Trump couldn't win a year ago but the fact is Clinton is so corrupt and dishonest she was no match for him.

I hope in my lifetime we will have no borders, have no national interest only that of the planet we all inhabit

Amen to that.

But its clearly not going to "just" happen as we have seen what we are up against with Brexit and Trump.

We now need to make it happen. Fight fire with fire.

who cares he lost heavily in CA and NY

Seeing as they are the 1st and 2rd biggest tax revenue providers, they might.

Not true at all ahwiles

But if the rust belt think that isolationism and Trump are the answers they are in for a rude shock

Protest votes only go so far.

Least we now know how the world felt about us and Brexit and how when you're in it it seems different. Easy to criticise from a far about stupid voters...but that is how the majority of the world thought about UK citizens and their Brexit vote.

Molgrips the whole Clinton Foundation thing .... Clinton has demonstrated again and again she is for sale. She will say ANYTHING for votes and money. I call that corrupt.

Trump's campaign have said they will not rule out a special prosecutor for Clinton. I suspect there is a mass of "IT server bleaching going on" and movement of records out of the US.

US had to be dragged into WW2 in Europe by Churchill,

I think Hitler declaring war on the US was the trigger. Part of a pact with the Empire of Japan, I think.

Do you make this sh1t up for fun?

but that is how the majority of the world thought about UK citizens and their Brexit vote.

That's daft. Support for something similar to Brexit is strong in Europe never mind in the ROTW. There is no other trading region in the world with freedom of movement, a massive budget and a law making Parliament. The EU is a one-off no one is trying to emulate. The only comparison is the USA and they had a civil war to get there, it is the vision of the EU to be a superstate - that is the project which is why we are getting out

Trump's campaign have said they will not rule out a special prosecutor for Clinton. I suspect there is a mass of "IT server bleaching going on" and movement of records out of the US.

Clinton has demonstrated again and again she is for sale. She will say ANYTHING for votes and money. I call that corrupt.

@Baron (Tunisian bowl btw)

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Here's Obama's executive orders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders_13489_and_above

I can see some there that will be near impossible to repeal.

I'm amazed that both the Brexit vote and the election of Trump happened despite all the vote rigging and election fraud inherent in the system.

ahwiles - Member
(or are they? can a referendum have more than 2 options? - are they binary by definition?)

The referendum for Scottish devolution in '97 had two questions: Devolution yes/no, tax raising powers yes/no. That was effectively a question with 3 answers: No devolution/devolution without tax raising powers/devolution with tax raising powers.

She will say ANYTHING for votes and money.

Okay, but surely Trump even more so!

He has flip-flopped around on issues to gain the votes he needs in the places he needs them. He has made promises that he knows full well he has very little intention of implementing (which of course is part of his plan: "Those weak-willed liberal elites won't let me commit war crimes. Traitors. Enemies of the people!").

Edit: great minds, mike.

Well, if Boris Johnson said it it [i]must [/i]be true.

complicated and nuanced

Nearly everything is complicated and nuanced when you micro analyse it.

Take a hammer hitting a thumb. There are likely to be numerous imperfections on the surface of the hammer. An infinite number of possible angles and skin/bone/nail interactions. But the salient point is that the hammer hits the thumb and knowing the equation for every part of the blinding pain that is likely to follow is not really helpful. It still hurts, a lot.

A sociopath has preyed on the worst parts of a national psyche. He has lied, slandered convenient enemies and tried to trash his opponent's reputation. Nothing new there. The new angle is the 'anti-politics' and 'post-truth' phenomenon. Now if you are caught lying, the best response is to double-down, say something offensive in return and claim it is all part of a conspiracy by the liberal elite.

Make no mistake, this is the start of the slide - I am very fearful for the future and, more importantly, the future that the next generation will have.

As with Brexit, a majority of a populace who voted have given in to their baser motives, turned inwards and sought a better future for themselves whilst enjoying the prospect of a worse future for those they hate.

The likes of President Assad will be uncorking the champagne as we speak. Is Trump going to pull Putin up on his actions in Syria, for example? I think not.

Welcome to the new age of extremism.

I hope in my lifetime we will have no borders, have no national interest only that of the planet we all inhabit.

Never going to happen because resource allocation isn't even around the globe.

I think we'll look back and realise the period from post Berlin Wall up till 2001 were the most free things ever got. Since then has been a steady ratcheting up of protecting national interests and re-entrenchment.

I have posted before I think our defense spending should be more like 3% than 2%

BAe and Cobham, amongst others, are going large...

@jambayla....please post journalist (or other examples) from reputable non-UK sources in praise of the Brexit vote.