Plus I have just been ‘treated’ to that **** Farage on R4 clearly positioning himself as the UK’s unofficial ambassador to Washington.
Ah yes Farage. I was shocked to hear he was in the USA considering there was a debate about the future of the fishing industry yesterday.
Given his deep love and support for the fishing industry I thought he might turn up. OK he barely bothered when on the EU fisheries committee but now it was in Westminster.
The repercussions could be worse for those outside the USA. That’s the worry.
But when your strap line is MAGA, who cares about anyone else?
Thoughts and prayers for everyone
The repercussions could be worse for those outside the USA. That’s the worry.
It could however galvanise a rather disaffected EU. For too long the world (at least our world) has relied way too heavily on the US for security, leadership and even stuff like tech. It might be that an ascendant Trump doing all kinds of whack-job stuff domestically, combined with shutting down of foreign policy relations will actually lead to Europe (including us) pulling its finger out.
I suspect this time round that the rest of the world might be better prepared. I don't think anyone expected Trump to get in last time.
at least that's what I'm hoping
@benpinnick An isolationist US should definitely prompt closer European security cooperation if nothing else. Also need to accelerate decarbonisation as this makes us less dependent on other unsavoury regimes...
It could however galvanise a rather disaffected EU. For too long the world (at least our world) has relied way too heavily on the US for security, leadership and even stuff like tech. It might be that an ascendant Trump doing all kinds of whack-job stuff domestically, combined with shutting down of foreign policy relations will actually lead to Europe (including us) pulling its finger out.
It's a good point. The reduction of the influence of the US in broader global issues is a 2 way thing - the world is just as capable of shunning them and they are of walking away from us. Economically, politically, militarily but also culturally. This election has once and for all highlighted that as a collective, they are just not like us. We have far more in common with some European nations. If only there was a group that we could be part of to make a European union, to trade as a group, to have an impact on the world as a collective. That'd be great.
Looks like the rednecks got their president then. 4 Years of chaos to follow.
It could however galvanise a rather disaffected EU
We have seen **** all resistance across Europe to the rise of the right and the oligarchs, continued austerity, failure to even recognise the problems of neoliberalism never mind fix them, attacking the left and progressives rather than the causes of economic inequality and insecurity, no action to combat the flood of misinformation.
I see nothing more than further moves right, and a big push by the oligarchs to repeat their American success in Europe.
@benpinnick An isolationist US should definitely prompt closer European security cooperation if nothing else. Also need to accelerate decarbonisation as this makes us less dependent on other unsavoury regimes…
I hope so. I used to work for a US company and the number of times my boss tried to get me to move to the US was high, but always I turned him down because the US is ultimately a basket case; always has been, probably always will be. As far back as the civil war (Which wasn't that long ago in global terms remember) they've been a divided country with the coastal populations and the inland populations in an uneasy truce. The balance of power will ebb and flow, and this time its flowed very strongly towards the isolationist camp. It will flow back again for sure. Hopefully our leaders and those around us will see the folly of reliance on the USA and move to strengthen our own propositions.
4 Years of chaos to follow.
At least it's his last 4 years,
I suspect this time round that the rest of the world might be better prepared. I don’t think anyone expected Trump to get in last time.
at least that’s what I’m hoping
There's a report on the BBC website about what Lammy & Starmer have done in laying the groundwork
He isn't going to last 4 years.
They will have him removed and vance in charge by March
Am I right in saying he has:
- won the popular vote.
- these here 'electoral college' votes.
- both houses.
- has a supreme court 'in his influence' in many ways, and the opportunity to influence it even more.
- a lot of very wealthy people 'in his influence' for what they can personally gain from the next few years.
This could be a very uncomfortable few years ahead.
It won’t be good for climate change, or rather it will….
They will have him removed and vance in charge by March
There is no mechanism for that other than impeachment
Wonder Putin, Kim Jong Un, Supreme Leader of Hungry and other despots will make the inauguration?
Am I right in saying he has:
– won the popular vote.
– these here ‘electoral college’ votes.
– both houses.
– has a supreme court ‘in his influence’ in many ways, and the opportunity to influence it even more.
– a lot of very wealthy people ‘in his influence’ for what they can personally gain from the next few years.This could be a very uncomfortable few years ahead.
Indeed. He's also got a ratification that he can't be prosecuted for anything he does as president as long as he is doing it as part of his presidency or some other fudge - basically he's above the law. By some margin this is the most powerful he has ever been - more so than in 2016. And, without the need to look good enough to look electable in 4 years time and a desire to leave a legacy....gulp.
Long and short of it though - you can't blame Trump for this. He is the essence of the Ronseal candidate in every way including skin treatment. He lies so blatantly that even the stupidest of people know that he's lying. His policies are simplistic to the point that it should not need explaining to anyone. But he has the complete mandate of the people to be their president. His is the very personification of the 2024 American psyche. We (as in the rest of the globe) should stop shaking our heads in wonder at Trump but should be shaking our heads in distaste and distrust at Americans as a collective group of people. The majority of them like and believe in this man - therefore 'we' need to see 'them' for what they are. It not that different to Putin, Russia and Russians. Putin is incredibly popular in Russia....which says some pretty dreadful things about Russians and a group of people.
So depressing:-(
I've been pussy footing about packing in twitter for a long time, seems a good day to finally walk away.
basically he’s above the law.
No different to Obama then. Torture program, rendition and more extra-judicial killings than any other president.
By some margin this is the most powerful he has ever been – more so than in 2016. And, without the need to look good enough to look electable in 4 years time and a desire to leave a legacy….gulp.
And I think after a few nights sleep, a need for vengeance on some people and countries and a total lack of care about anything other than his own pride.
Just had to express my dismay somewhere. What a twisted world. Thank god for the refuge of bikes.
Had undefined lurgy, then COVID, my dad died last week and now I watch this calamity unfold. Depressed doesn't cut it.
Ride your bikes folks.
I’ve been pussy footing about packing in twitter for a long time, seems a good day to finally walk away.
Just did that myself.
Sorry to hear that fella, take care of yourself.
He lies so blatantly that even the stupidest of people know that he’s lying
Watched a video of one of his supporters enthusiastically cheering his proposal to end income taxes and replace them with tariffs on foreign goods. This person was under the impression that the foreign sellers of those goods would be liable for the tariffs. It took 3 people to explain to him that the consumer will ultimately pay those tariffs, and even then I don't think the penny fully dropped with him
I suspect this time round that the rest of the world might be better prepared. I don’t think anyone expected Trump to get in last time.
at least that’s what I’m hoping
Counter to that is that Trump will be more prepared and clued-up this time when it comes to generals, officials etc seeking to frustrate his wilder schemes.
There is no mechanism for that other than impeachment
JFK would counter that.
They will have him removed and vance in charge by March
There is no mechanism for that other than impeachment
25th Amendment allows the cabinet to appoint the Vice-President as Acting President if the President is incapable of discharging his duties. Then it goes to Congress to decide whether to make it permanent or to reinstate the President.
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
25th amendment gives that option to remove him.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it being used.
Ultimately I can't see him living through his full term given his clear decline, as much as I hate the UK for brexit, I am incredibly glad I live here and not over there
Yeah I was aware of that, but they're not going to say he's incompetent 2 months after he takes power
as much as I hate the UK for brexit
Different cheek, same arse.
It was the form the opportunity was presented in rather than the sentiment behind the result - if you get what I mean.
We are not the same as the US, but we are on the same path, do not be under any illusion.
You cant control it, but you can look to try and find positives - Trump will likely be good for big business. That means our isa’s, pensions & investments will ultimately likely do well.
The folk paying the price for this will be the average American will have what few rights they have go up in smoke and pay for our gains.
It should also accelerate our closer ties with Europe and the decoupling from the “special relationship“
Thanks for the suggestions thols2. However I still fail to be convinced that with regards to Gaza Trump will be significantly worse than Biden. The only leverage that Biden has used on Netanyahu are 'words' which Netanyahu has totally ignored, and nothing more.
Plenty of 'do not do this and you must do that', such as 'you must not go in Rafa' and 'do not expand the war into Lebanon', the result? The IDF attacks Rafa and invades Lebanon.
Without Trump as US president Israel is currently in the process of ethnically cleansing northern Gaza in preparation for illegal Israeli settlements, Joe Biden is doing absolutely nothing to stop them. Biden has accepted Israel's illegal annexation of East Jerusalem, he has done absolutely nothing to reverse Trump's decision to move the US embassy to Jerusalem.
Yesterday Ireland established full diplomatic relations with Palestine accepting a fully accredited Palestinian ambassador (much to the disgust of Israel) the UK still has not recognised the State of Palestine despite it being clear Labour Party policy to do so.
Why the difference? Because of this mythical "Special Relationship" and the United States being the UK's closest ally no UK PM wants to step out of line with the US, in contrast Ireland has no such issues. Will a Labour PM slavishly follow US foreign policy as set out by Donald Trump, or will they have the courage of their own convictions?
I suspect that the only significant difference between Biden and Trump when it comes to Israel is that Biden's commitment to Israel is far more genuine than Trump's. I don't doubt that Trump doesn't care about the huge and irreparable damage Netanyahu is doing to Israel, as Netanyahu destroys Israel in pursuit of the goal of saving his own skin.
Trump becoming US president for the second time is a massively negative development for Americans imo, but it does provide an opportunity for much of the world, especially Europe, to reassess a relationship which isn't particularly healthy and is too dependent.
You cant control it, but you can look to try and find positives – Trump will likely be good for big business. That means our isa’s, pensions & investments will ultimately likely do well.
The folk paying the price for this will be the average American will have what few rights they have go up in smoke and pay for our gains.
Very much this. They really have played a blinder convincing the electorate that them getting poorer, while US companies revenues are through the roof, record profits, billionaires hoarding wealth etc, was the fault of the democrats. And of course if the Dems had proposed something like a windfall tax, they've have been accused of being even bigger communists. It really was a win win situation for the Trump campaign
I can’t see him living through his full term given his clear decline
I wouldn't be that sure. I might loath the man to his very core (and have done so for 30 odd years - it's not a recent thing) I actually admire his energy for his age. My mum is exactly the same age give a month or two and is in fine fettle - but there is no way in hell she could have done what he has done for the last few months. No, he'll ramble on for the full 4 years. Unlike Biden who once made sense, Trump has always spouted bollox. He might make less public 'performances' and the slap might go a little thicker - but apart from a massive heart attack or debilitating stroke he'll make the full term. His father died at 94 or 95 - he's a spring chicken in comparison.
Yep, right now we should be looking at Europe and saying "hey buddy, sorry about the last few years, can we still be mates?"
they’re not going to say he’s incompetent 2 months after he takes power
They won't want to (especially because Vance would want to wait until more than two years into the term before taking over so that he could have another two full terms as President - if he takes over with more than half the term remaining, he would only be allowed to serve one more full term), but I wouldn't be surprised if Trump's decline became so bad that he gave them no choice. He really doesn't look well, he's shuffling and just generally seems to be struggling.
You cant control it, but you can look to try and find positives – Trump will likely be good for big business. That means our isa’s, pensions & investments will ultimately likely do well.
I listen to a pod hosted by a US hedge fund guy who has been saying for a few months that he didn't mind who won as long as the two chambers were split. His point being that the two sides cancel each other out and give business a pretty much free rein, so it will be interesting to see how the market moves over the next few months given its already at all time highs.
@nicknameless
Free Member
Just had to express my dismay somewhere. What a twisted world. Thank god for the refuge of bikes.Had undefined lurgy, then COVID, my dad died last week and now I watch this calamity unfold. Depressed doesn’t cut it.
Sorry to hear that mate, I really am.
As for today's news, I just remember this phrase, "this to shall pass."
I hope things are better for you real soon my friend. The forums always here for you too.
Yep, right now we should be looking at Europe and saying “hey buddy, sorry about the last few years, can we still be mates?”
Yeah, but Starmer is repeatedly told that he can't afford to lose 'a certain kind of voter'.
That 'certain kind' that voted for Brexit and has now elected Trump. Twice.
It really is a magnificent stitch-up. And whilst conditions had to be right for it to be possible, Putin is laughing his tits off and looking like a genius.
Really, you have to admire him in some ways. He destabilisation of the western world has been a masterpiece.
That ‘certain kind’ that voted for Brexit and has now elected Trump. Twice.
I'm in the office today, a group of us chatting about the result, universal view that it's terrible.
Then a woman pipes up that she likes him! Not only that, she's an ethnic minority woman, the sort of person who has actually dealt with far-right "immigrants go home" rhetoric here in the UK and would absolutely be on Trump's hit list of people to be behind a bigly wall.
She says he's funny. We pointed out that he's a convicted felon, a liar, a rapist... But none of that seemed to affect her opinion.
People are weird.
That ‘certain kind’ that voted for Brexit and has now elected Trump. Twice.
Let's be honest if it weren't for Reform we'd still have a Tory government.
Not only that, she’s an ethnic minority woman,
Okay…….
Hope she’s now on a re-education course to get her put back in line.
As I said, “diversity” is a smokescreen for conformity of opinion. She clearly isn’t the right kind of diverse with those wishy washy thoughts in her head.
Maybe she doesn’t think he’s funny at all but couldn’t be arsed to explain why she has as much right to be concerned about unchecked illegal immigration being foisted on her by the globalist elite as anyone else!!
We pointed out that he’s a convicted felon, a liar, a rapist… But none of that seemed to affect her opinion.
People are weird.
crosshair too doesnt seem to idolise any less despite all that, weird indeed, I dunno maybe because Ive got a young daughter but thought of even holding my nose to vote for a rapist, let alone worshiping him , its mind boggling to me
I didn’t vote for him…..
Or worship him…..
But don’t let that get in the way of such a juicy sounding conflation.
Just watching a clip of Kemi sticking up for Trump in PMQ’s. Damn those black women and their racist, rapist loving rhetoric.
Americans aren’t as hung up on money as we are. You can simultaneously be rich and a man of the people over there.
It’s quite clear him and Musk are the last stand for common sense and free speech. And people of every class, colour and creed back him all the way.
The Democrats are the party of big pharma and the military industrial complex bringing pain and misery wherever they turn.
As I said, “diversity” is a smokescreen for conformity of opinion.
There's something in this. In almost every aspect of our lives we're being told what to say, how to say it, and what to think, and will be admonished, disadvantaged and potentially even fired from our jobs or prosecuted if we step out of line. I have no problem with all the diversity and inclusivity stuff, and have no wish to offend, insult or judge anyone, but I have to admit that I sometimes get tired of the constant judgement and policing of what I might think or say by people who think they know better.
Funny isn't it how the drive for inclusivity and equality never includes those that are economically or culturally disadvantaged? In fact it's the opposite, the poor/less well off are actively demonised and persecuted rather than respected and included. Why are we supposed to care so much about and respect people's identity and individual rights but not their economic position? That's what's driving this divide, and it's only going to get worse until progressives and others who oppose rightwing extremism start prioritising economic security over the safe and easy issues of identity and individual rights.
until progressives and others who oppose rightwing extremism start prioritising economic security over the safe and easy issues of identity and individual rights
This already happens. But unless you're out there saying "close the borders", "gay characters in books makes them pornography"... you can be painted as being "obsessed with identity politics"... when strangely those who centre their campaigns around scapegoating immigrants and LGBT+ people (and in the USA banning abortion) don't get accused of putting issues of identity politics first.
Yep. Agree wholeheartedly Dazh. Until our institutions start being genuinely inclusive (ie of what we used to be told mattered most- the person and opinions on the inside) then we are doomed to all out culture war.
In almost every aspect of our lives we’re being told what to say, how to say it, and what to think, and will be admonished, disadvantaged and potentially even fired from our jobs or prosecuted if we step out of line. I have no problem with all the diversity and inclusivity stuff, and have no wish to offend, insult or judge anyone, but I have to admit that I sometimes get tired of the constant judgement and policing of what I might think or say by people who think they know better.
Well if you dont do or say racist or homophobic or rapey stuff, you dont really have to worry about judgement, on the whole I find that pretty easy
The Democrats are the party of big pharma and the military industrial complex bringing pain and misery wherever they turn.
Not going to disagree with that. I would add though that the Republicans are also the party of big pharma. military industrial complex, etc.
The reason the West is in the state it's in is because billionaires have been busy stealing everyone else's money and then using some of it to convince them it was immigrants and woke who did it. And a bit more of it to get all the politicians to say this is just the way things have to be and if you don't like it vote for someone else (oh, no party is going to do anything about it, too bad so sad).
To paraphrase Trump, people have been saying the world would be a better place if we dragged all the oligarchs and billionaires into the street and hung them from lamp posts.
I'm not saying that, obviously, but people have been saying that.
They will have him removed and vance in charge by March
Why?
Funny isn’t it how the drive for inclusivity and equality never includes those that are economically or culturally disadvantaged? In fact it’s the opposite, the poor/less well off are actively demonised and persecuted rather than respected and included.
Sorry - what?
people have been saying the world would be a better place if we dragged all the oligarchs and billionaires into the street and hung them from lamp posts.
No not really because they would just be replaced with other oligarchs and billionaires. You need to change the system, and try and come up with a method of stopping them from changing it back.
No not really because they would just be replaced with other oligarchs and billionaires. You need to change the system, and try and come up with a method of stopping them from changing it back.
Historically, once wealth becomes concentrated enough, the system can't be changed.
Well, it is changed eventually but this largely involves lamp posts.
That's what I hear people saying.
MOD - Talk of assassinations and murder is a sure fire way to get this thread closed, don’t let’s get to that please.
And people of every class, colour and creed back him all the way.
The ‘grown ups in the room’ in charge of this DEI stuff are clearly clinically insane…
Im sure that whatever echochamber you live in leaves you in fear of seeing a transperson in the loos at all times
buyt the reality is DEI at my workplace (big science institute in central london) includes making sure that for every student we get for work experience we take who apply to the institute (usually middle class families) each lab has to take 2 students from local schools (covers some of the highest free school meals % in UK) as well as doing outreach and lessons for kids into the institute
thats the problem with getting all your info from Joe Rogan or GBNews, you get a warped view of what the world is like in real life and before you know it your idolising the rapey guy because he's protecting your cultural values from the DEI bogeyman
Yes the Republicans clearly have fully invested Globalists too. That’s why the sides are hard to label. Left/right Dem/republican Tory/labour doesn’t really cut it any more.
It’s more subtle. I think globalist/libertarian sums it up best but it makes discussion too confusing.
And I guess that confusion is part of the design. It’a harder to fight an enemy you can’t quickly define.
Well fair point- but the Riley Gaines interview with Rogan is pretty compelling….
No doubt Labour will be prescribing a compulsory daily dosage of BBC news shortly.
Sorry – what?
Not really sure what you don't understand. You think the poor are treated on an equal footing in this country to the well off? If that's your position its demonstrably absurd. The poor in this country (and across the entire western capitalist world) are told they deserve to be poor, are marginalised in almost every way and are judged and looked down on from almost everyone else in society. I have no idea why you don't think this is the case. The question though is why this isn't given the same importance as issues around identity and individual rights. Should people not have equal economic rights as well as not being disadvantaged by their race, creed, gender or sexuality?
Maybe she doesn’t think he’s funny at all but couldn’t be arsed to explain why she has as much right to be concerned about unchecked illegal immigration being foisted on her by the globalist elite as anyone else
Or maybe she's just a xxxzing idiot...that would be my take...
As are you if you genuinely think trump and Musk aren't part of the 'globalist elite' tbf..
Anyhow..
Ridiculously rich, a (social) media empire, an outward appearance of respectability, space rockets, and now a foot in the whitehouse. Musk is pretty much a bond villain isn't he..
It’a harder to fight an enemy you can’t quickly define.
I can define them.
Hell, I could probably name most of them. Off the top of my head there's Musk, Bezos, Koch...
I think we need to start 'othering' billionaires and oligarchs. In much the same way they've been othering various groups to give people something to focus their anger on.
It's not immigrants, it's not 'woke', it's not DEI, it's none of that.
It's the people stealing all the money who then use it to build survival bunkers. Survival bunkers so they can survive the societal collapse they are actively causing.
Yeah, if anyone thought about it for more than 5 minutes the real enemy would be easy to define and find.
I’d say wasting all that money on twitter to save free speech was one of the most altruistic things anyone has ever done.
I’d say wasting all that money on twitter to save feee speech was one of the most altruistic things anyone has ever done.
Let me just set up a live tracker so we can keep track of where Musk is at all times.
Oops, not that kind of free speech, obviously.
Different cheek, same arse.
Lembit Opik’s autobiography
I’d say wasting all that money on twitter to save free speech was one of the most altruistic things anyone has ever done.
Well, if you think helping Trump was an "altruistic" thing to do. Twitter was captured by Musk because of how they handled Trump's more dangerous misinformation at the height of the pandemic and after he wasn't re-elected in 2020. And, not uncoincidentally, Musk now finds himself an inside man in an upcoming second Trump administration. Musk stands to gain A LOT from his purchasing of Twitter and bribing of voters for Trump. His competitors should be very worried.
I’d say wasting all that money on twitter to save free speech was one of the most altruistic things anyone has ever done.
Funniest thing I've read today - thanks for cheering me up.
He basically bought it cos someone was tracking his private jet & then kicked them off that isn't free speech.
He turned it from a cespool into a ceslake
The whole campaign has been fascinating to watch, it feels like I've been watching a film rather than real life. Trump 2 return of the pussy grabber.
After 4 years of the dems and their media trying to claim Biden was fully with it and on top of his game they turned on him overnight and couped him when it became obvious to everyone that that was a lie, followed by the media machine going full force to try and turn one of the least liked VPs ever into Americas saviour.
Trump gets shot and handles it like a champ. The photo of him fist in the air, blood on his face with the American flag behind is publicity money cant buy.
Trump starts getting more and more endorsements from high profile people while the Dems get Liz Cheney and celebrate as if this is some sort of victory.
Trumps campaign talked a lot about a positive vision for the future and the changes he would make, while the Harris campaign just screeched constantly about how Trump is a facist and the next Hitler.
Ultimately I think the Americans made the right choice. Trump is far from perfect but the Dems have completely lost the plot in many many ways.
The photo of him fist in the air, blood on his face with the American flag behind is publicity money cant buy.
True. A key moment in the campaign, for sure. Arguably the day the election was won.
Yeah, but Starmer is repeatedly told that he can’t afford to lose ‘a certain kind of voter’.
That ‘certain kind’ that voted for Brexit and has now elected Trump. Twice.
I'd love Starmer/anyone to just say we can't afford to let lies and ignorance lead us down that US path, and make it clear he won't pander to it.
The same Starmer who burned all his own pledges once he’d gained the Labour Party leadership position? Likely story.
white101Full Member
I’ve been pussy footing about packing in twitter for a long time, seems a good day to finally walk away.
Posted 1 hour ago
I'm not on twitter X, never have been, never will and hubby has just said he's leaving.
@nicknamless - I'm so sorry
I’d say wasting all that money on twitter to save free speech was one of the most altruistic things anyone has ever done.
The most alturistic things anyone has ever done! That's an absurd enough statement even if you ignore the fact he immediately started banning journalists he didn't like and continues to do so
https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-technology-business-dac21de7abb6167bb604f5317aeda10a
https://newrepublic.com/post/177936/twitter-suspends-accounts-journalists-critical-elon-musk
Come on Dems, say it with me “It’s a private platform, if you don’t like it, make your own twitter” lol
(Well, private apart from all those back doors to the various government propagandists).