TRUMP: “Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A “gun free” school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!”
Serious question: apart from working with the NRA to better understand the need for owning assault style weapons and tightening gun laws to keep them out of the hands of people who feel the need to shoot up fellow pupils, couldn't they do something about classroom doors so in the event of a school shooting they could lock the shooter out but also give the kids safe places until the authorities turn up
I mean, still sort out the gun laws first, that's a no brainer, even for that orange faced buffoon, but his "counter strike" fantasies of Steven Seagal style teachers is a bit much to swallow
and the final scores are in..
Fear and Paranoia 1
America 0
So another (expected) big win for the good old NRA.
Right, so now you need teachers, who not only need to be clever, interesting, passionate, and able to describe complex subjects in suitably motivating manner, they also now need to be trained killers, able to drop their text book, grab a gun and react in a split second to sharp shoot at a moving armed attacker, in a room full of children.
What could possibly go wrong eh!
Right, so now you need teachers, who not only need to be clever, interesting, passionate
If that was a thing there wouldn't be any teachers.
I would have thought that giving the teachers guns would make them the initial target for any shooter - not sure how the teachers would react to this!
couldn’t they do something about classroom doors
JustinKase, a doorjam.
Why is Trump getting it in the neck over this shooting....many more occurred under Obama...at one point Obama's democrats had control of the Senate and Congress and still didn't do anything about guns... Trump comes out and says it will stop and he's looking at all the options and gets vilified?
Please explain why St Obama never got this crap for school shootings?
Is it because Obama really wanted to get rid of guns [but never stood a chance] while Trump wants to actually get more guns out on the streets? - he really is a class act.
Obama tried to fix the issues but couldn't, Trump is actively making it worse. Think that's about it.
Obama tried to fix the issues but couldn’t, Trump is actively making it worse. Think that’s about it.
That's nonsense. Obama did nothing. He may have wanted to, but he couldn't.
Allowing teachers to defend themselves would be about the only thing you could do to try and do something about it. It's hard to imagine how it could make things worse.
Obama introduced law to make it harder for people with mental illness to buy guns. Trump repealed it.
https://www.snopes.com/trump-sign-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-illnesses/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43088644
OK, fair enough.
That change was tinkering around the edges, as was repealing it. In a country awash with firearms making would be spree shooters buy second hand from craigslist rather than from walmart isn't going to make a whole lot of odds. The people your planning on shooting being armed may well do.
5th elephant youre hilarious
the answer to too many guns in schools is.........
more guns in schools !!
Obama also tried to ban assault weapons and large capacity magazines, but couldn't get the bills through.
The people your planning on shooting being armed may well do.
Till the first teacher has a breakdown and decides to go on a rampage. Then what..?
I don't think there is an answer particularly. But the fixed part of the problem is owning a gun is a right. The only possible solution if you accept that is being able to defend yourself.
It's one of the reasons I would never live in America. Having to own a gun to defend yourself isn't an attractive option for me.
NRA is way too powerful and influential on lawmakers and politicians. There's no way Obama could achieve anything.
Trump on the other hand fully backs them as a full supporter of the NRA (and I'm sure gets $millions in support from them also).
It’s one of the reasons I would never live in America. Having to own a gun to defend yourself isn’t an attractive option for me.
I wonder what the statistics are for guns actually being proven as a defence. The vast majority of gun deaths in US are from suicide and murder. Owning a gun in defence doesn't seem to make a difference.
Meanwhile, while I wouldn't live in America either, I've never felt unsafe the numerous times I've been there. Just don't go into The Hood and don't piss off cops. The mass shootings are also relatively minor, though still massively greater than other countries, but compared to the thousands of shootings each year they're minor.
Still though, more guns is definitely not the solution.
I'm awaiting an incident of a deranged teacher going on a rampage with their gun and training.
Solution to that would be to arm the kids of course.
I wonder what the statistics are for guns actually being proven as a defence. The vast majority of gun deaths in US are from suicide and murder. Owning a gun in defence doesn’t seem to make a difference.
There are endless self defense stories and videos out there. Weird I should know that but I use a US motorbike forum, much like this but bigger. There is a long running self defense thread with never ending examples. But like a seatbelt. or insurance, the reality is most people will never need it.
It’s one of the reasons I would never live in America. Having to own a gun to defend yourself isn’t an attractive option for me.
Too much NRA Koolaid there,
But like a seatbelt. or insurance, the reality is most people will never need it.
Ah you got it, you don't actually need one and having more is causing more problems ie your tooled up, the bugler shoots you before you wake up etc. Many states have much more stringent gun laws which could be applied across the board. Again, how is the solution to kids going on a rampage with guns to arm teachers - take the guns off the kids.
Please explain why St Obama never got this crap for school shootings?
Obama did screw up. In the first part of his presidency he did spend to much time trying to work with the Republicans as opposed to pushing stuff through.
Once the democrats did badly in the midterm elections he lost all ability to make significant changes. Any gun law changes were just tinkering around the edges since that was the only option for him.
But like a seatbelt. or insurance,
Seatbelts and insurance dont tend to be a threat to either the user or bystanders though. Unlike firearms.
But like a seatbelt. or insurance,
Both seatbelts and (car) insurance are unnecessary if you remove cars from the equation, unlikely but we are being hyperthetical no? Likewise, defense against guns with a gun is unnecessary if you remove the actual guns.
I apreciate that will not happen overnight but it will never happen if they don't start the process.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">"5thElefant
<div class="bbp-author-role"></div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
There are endless self defense stories and videos out there. Weird I should know that but I use a US motorbike forum, much like this but bigger. There is a long running self defense thread with never ending examples. But like a seatbelt. or insurance, the reality is most people will never need it."
</div>
I remember a longrunning thread on SVrider.com, "How to carry on a motorbike". Kidney holster was the preferred answer, for "quick draw and not restricting your movements on the bike". And if you dared to say something like "how quickly can you draw your weapon while wearing motorbike gloves" or "won't that sting a bit, if you fall off?" then you were a gun-hatin' liberal. People who'd never put a disk lock in their pocket in case they fell on it were well up for sticking a 1911 and of course a load of magazines in there.
Of course the odds of falling off or being knocked off were astronomically higher than ever wanting to shoot someone- they went for a group ride to Deal's Gap and pretty much everyone fell off. (ooh, italics are back) They believed in "I had to lay it down", stoppies, riding in jeans, and avoiding any sort of rider training, with the exact same strength that hey believed in "I must be armed and ready to protect myself from harm" and that any cautionary words were "Trying to disarm us"
And you're all on machines that'll get you quarter of a mile away in 11 seconds- which is almost certainly faster than you could pull, aim and fire effectively from a cold start.
I found it pretty fascinating tbh.
If the teachers have guns then there is the chance that a teacher could go on a rampage, we should probably arm the students just in case. But the students might go on a shooting spree, better have armed guards, but they might get trigger happy, better have extra armed guards etc etc
Oh armed janitors I forgot about that one......bawbags as far as the eye can see.
Obama introduced law to make it harder for people with mental illness to buy guns. Trump repealed it.
You’re aware, presumably, that in fact what Obama’s did was roundly criticised by disability charities and civil liberties groups for essentially stigmatising anyone on disability benefits with issues such as Aspergers and other ASD’s, depression, agoraphobia and a myriad of other disorders as dangerous nutters?
The belief that people who have psychiatric or neurological disabilities are prone to violence only perpetuates the stigma associated with these disabilities and hinders people from receiving proper mental health services. For example, one of the signature injuries of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is Post- Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). The stigma associated with receiving mental health services leads some veterans who have PTSD to avoid the care they need to live fulfilling, productive lives. While efforts to decrease this stigma have produced some results, we must exercise extreme caution against addressing mental health issues in a manner that erodes gains and increases barriers to care.
Responses to gun violence that focus on Americans with disabilities are ineffective and threaten the civil and human rights of countless Americans. Twenty-three years after the Americans with Disabilities Act and fourteen years after the Supreme Court’s landmark Olmstead v. L.C. decision, it is vital that policymakers hear the voices and respect the rights of people with disabilities.
Trumper pictured going into the meeting with the delegation from Florida holding a bit of paper with five bullet points.
Five.
The last one... " I hear you".
In the light of the requirements for this conversation, what sort of idiot can only manage five variations and needs to be reminded to say, at some point, "I hear you"?
Oh, wait...
"You’re aware, presumably, that in fact what Obama’s did was roundly criticised by disability charities and civil liberties groups for essentially stigmatising anyone on disability benefits with issues such as Aspergers and other ASD’s, depression, agoraphobia and a myriad of other disorders as dangerous nutters?"
What he did was & is a shitload better than that orange ****wits idea of more guns.
You need to go & join the army or something - get this gun lust out of your system!
You’re aware, presumably, that in fact what Obama’s did was roundly criticised
I am. You are aware, presumably, that Trump complained there were "so many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed", yet he happily repealed laws designed to stop mentally disturbed people legally buying guns.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/964110212885106689
I'm all for rights for people with mental health issues, but arguing that, for instance, there is no reason to restrict veterans with PTSD from having guns is just bizarre.
A friend of mine was a (UK) beat cop and he has some brutal stories about having to deal with incidents involving ex-service guys who were clearly suffering from mental illness.
But yeah clearly, clearly background checks that consider mental health are an affront to the 2nd Amendment and the kind of terrible libtard idea that only Obama would consider. I'm sure TRump has a better plan:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966662241977360384
Head of the NRA just now
"As usual, the opportunists waited not one second to exploit tragedy for political gain," said Mr LaPierre, who is head of the National Rifle Association (NRA).
"They hate the NRA. They hate the second amendment. They hate individual freedom," he said, referring to the second amendment in the US constitution, which governs the "right to keep and bear arms".
Presumably referring to young school kids protests who don't want to be shot to death, which seems to be happening on an almost weekly basis at the moment.
Yeah - the mental health argument is interesting - it's a favorite of the gun lobby, but Trump just removed it as a valid response by repealing the bill designed to prevent mentally ill people from getting guns. Shot himself in the foot, as it were.
Perhaps that's why he's now doubled-down with (the even more absurd) talk of arming the teachers?
Surely that's a clear enough hypocrisy for even the most ardent trump apologist to understand? Maybe we should ask one?
Yup. You don't have to be a wrong 'un to like guns. But you do have to be a grade A wrong 'un to be the head of the NRA.
He's probably right that these kids hate the NRA though- and they should, precisely because of shit like this.
Ninfan:
You’re aware, presumably, that in fact what Obama’s did was roundly criticised by disability charities and civil liberties groups for essentially stigmatising anyone on disability benefits with issues such as Aspergers and other ASD’s, depression, agoraphobia and a myriad of other disorders as dangerous nutters?
Exactly. This whole "blame it on people with mental problems" stinks. How about some proper gun control legislation?
If Trump's Arm Teachers plan takes flight, and given the American police's apparantly keen enjoyment of shooting unarmed innocents, what do we think are the odds of casualty figures at the next school shooting being boosted by gun-toting teachers getting popped by over-zealous rozzers?
[quote=5thelephant]
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
It’s hard to imagine how it could make things worse
</div>
is it? I just thought for about 10 seconds and i came up with:
1) More guns, more chance of accidental discharge (ie teacher sits down, knocks safety off, and accidentally blows the face off little Jimmy in the class front row, and splatters his brains all over Chantelle in the row behind)
2) The teacher could be the one with mental health issues, especially having had a hard day dealing with a class full of feral children (ie, Mr Joice, a lovely art teacher, suddenly pulls his gun and pops a cap into Brians ass after he say "but sir, i hate painting animals"), much to the chagrin of Brians mum, Beverly.
3) The armed teachers are quickly identified by the kids (a concealed gun is pretty dam obvious to kids spending days with their teacher). Sarah, who's just turned 17 and has just been dumped by Graham, snatches the teachers gun away from him in History Class, and shoots Graham 5 times in the chest, shouting "you B****RD I LOVED YOU" at the top of her voice
4) PE teacher Dick is a crack shot, he's a member of the NRA, he polishes his guns every evening, spends hours down the range at the weekends. One day, he's teaching in a class of 30 noisy kids playing Basketball in the gym. As he watches the game, a mentally ill ex pupil slips quietly into the gym with his assault rifle. He shoots Dick 3 times, mortally wounding him, then shoots 11 other kids and 2 parents also watching. Dick pulls his side arm, and in the confusion, mistakes two other kids for the attacker, shoots them dead, and 3 misses go through the gym wall, killing another kid in the swimming pool changing room next door.
I'm pretty sure that literally anyone with more than 3 brain cells could come up with at least 10 more scenarios where those extra guns result in more deaths......
Trumper pictured going into the meeting with the delegation from Florida holding a bit of paper with five bullet points.
ISWYDT
I'll just copy this from the other thread because it's just as relevent here...
After all this blatant horseshit about getting more guns into schools, about how “mass shootings happen in gun free zones”, about how shooters are all cowards and won’t go somewhere there are armed guards, about how the best place to keep you safe from bad guys is to have good guys with guns…
There was an armed deputy there at the time. It achieved **** all. It put off no one. The shooting didn’t happen in a gun free zone. Putting guns into schools doesn’t stop shootings. And the people peddling this tired, fatuous bullshit didn’t even bother to check first to see if there was an armed officer there.
Of course, none of this will matter because they’re effortlessly pivoting to blaming the deputy.
Funny how a deputy (presumably armed with only a pistol) didn’t want to go up against someone armed with a semi-automatic assault rifle.
I mean, what would draft-dodging Donald Trump have done?
kinder eggs are banned but not guns designed for mass slaughter...
For me the arming teachers thing isn't a bad idea due to the risk of teachers going on a rampage (that would be very very low), it's a bad idea as it's just putting more guns into an inappropriate environment and accidents happen. If the police can shoot someone mistakenly then why wouldn't you expect the same risk to apply to a less well trained teacher? And if there were a shooting perhaps it would be a targeted gang related thing but the armed teacher accidentally shoots an innocent student bystander, besides adding to the tragedy what protection would the teacher have?
As it stands any debate is pointless in the current climate over there, the NRA funded politicians + the others too scared to lose there seats by going against the NRA + widespread cultural bias against anything seen as government restrictions on 'rights' and nothing is going to change no matter how many kids die.
Fascinating piece on Manafort's somewhat chequered history in The Atlantic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/
You can see why Mueller might suspect that someone who owes Oleg Deripaska millions of dollars might look to his influence in the Trump Campaign and GOP to find a way to remedy that.
Let's hope that Gates has flipped - he will know exactly what was put on the table, and why the GOP softened its position on Ukraine in the run up to the RNC.
If Gates suffers a fatal accident I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
So, what will the policy be after the first teacher goes on a rampage and kills a bunch of students and other teachers?
Arming teachers?
Have they never watched Breaking Bad?
Or when the first armed teacher gets killed by the Police when they arrive at the scene and see someone with a gun.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/us/politics/rick-gates-guilty-plea-mueller-investigation.html
Stand by for some top diversions, wonder if they know what he actually knows
For those who think the world is really going to Sheol in a hand-cart, guess who’s helping to lead the procession:
https://boingboing.net/2018/02/24/amnesty-international-warns-th.html
Trump will be very happy with that report, he can now claim the snowflakes have declared him #1, sad....so sad.
