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This is a civil case, no prison.
So even failing to pay court imposed fines wouldn’t result in prison, no matter how big the fine?
I've met a person, in prison, who were there following a civil case - they were behind bars because they consistently didn't comply with the outcome or pay the fines imposed. Long time ago now but I think he hadn't paid his council tax.
So Trump wouldn't go to jail because of this trial - but you could in theory be imprisoned for your actions in relation to the trial and its outcomes.
Bit like Chris Huhne managing to go to prison over a speeding ticket
"this “must pay before you can appeal” system is deeply shitty, "
Agreed, but the reverse side is if you are a small person up against a corp with deep pockets it stops you ending up forever in appeals. No obvious solution
I'm surprised disappointed at least one judge hasn't thrown him in prison for contempt of court. I'm pretty sure a lot of other defendants won't have been given anywhere near as much latitude to take the piss as Trump has done...
I’ve met a person, in prison, who were there following a civil case – they were behind bars because they consistently didn’t comply with the outcome or pay the fines imposed. Long time ago now but I think he hadn’t paid his council tax.
That's not a civil law thing. He'd been sent there by a magistrate. Clue is in the word "fine". It's likely because of an obligation from the state to pay your council tax.
Bit like Chris Huhne managing to go to prison over a speeding ticket
He was convicted for perverting the course of justice, not speeding. As was his ex.
Anyway, I've no idea how the yanks do things but it's a fascinating thing to watch
I’m surprised disappointed at least one judge hasn’t thrown him in prison for contempt of court. I’m pretty sure a lot of other defendants won’t have been given anywhere near as much latitude to take the piss as Trump has done…
Yeah, I am so far amazed that the calling a judge corrupt, doesn't bring far higher penalties.
Does any of this reduce the chance of him becoming president?
No.
Personally, regardless of Trump individually, I think you should be able to vote for some-one even if they are in prison.
I see Liz Truss has turned up at CPAC on a platform next to the human dumpster that is Bannon, a natural progression in her epic political journey from fresh-faced LibDem teen to Monster Raving Loony candidate.
https://twitter.com/MajorPazuzu/status/1761007231191990348
That’s not a civil law thing. He’d been sent there by a magistrate. Clue is in the word “fine”. It’s likely because of an obligation from the state to pay your council tax.
I was just pointing out that a civil case can start a chain of events that become a criminal case if you can't or refuse to comply. Interestingly this guy was referred to as a 'civil prisoner' and clothes, privileges, conditions have more in common with the the folk on remand than those who were convicted although those things might also have been due to the sentence being pretty short - 14 days I think.
I think of all the people I met in there he was the unhappiest.
Personally, regardless of Trump individually, I think you should be able to vote for some-one even if they are in prison.
It may not precluding him being on the ballot paper and theres nothing in the constitution that expressly disallows it as it has probably not really been envisaged before now. But if elected there likely tools within the constitution relating to a president being incapacitated. So while you can vote for someone if they are in prison - if being in prison prevents the president from being able to do the job of president that might prevent them actually being inaugurated or result in their removal soon after.
I get the feeling if democracy in the US survives the next 5 years or so we might see a bit a polishing up of the constitution and a few new amendments to put some safety rails put in place to guard against some of this nonsense in future. Hindsight and all that.
Judge Engoran has signed the order, so the clock starts ticking today - he has 30 days to appeal.
$454M in total.
I think if I had previously loaned money to Trump, at this point I would be wanting it back ASAP.
Yeah, I am so far amazed that the calling a judge corrupt, doesn’t bring far higher penalties.
Protected speech under the 1st amendment. You can also call the police fascist pigs and they have to suck it up.
Or they can shoot you.
I have a bad feeling he is going to win.
Yeah, but will he be utterly broke when he does? How will that play out when he’s not allowed to earn additional income during his time as POTUS? Will he even want the job?
How will that play out when he’s not allowed to earn additional income during his time as POTUS?
Absolutely fine (for him)!
I'm hoping that these Republican voters who are unhappy with Trump keep to their word and either stay home or vote for Biden (or write in another name). If even 20% of Republicans do that, Trump will lose in a landslide and hopefully that will be the end of him politically.
https://twitter.com/DecodingFoxNews/status/1762054234621595650
This has probably been mentioned a couple of pages back already, the Rest is Politics podcast with Campbell and Stewart (which I have to say even just listening to a couple, I would like it if political opponents could discourse in the same manner eg. adult) they spoke with Scaramucci.
I learned a lot about the funding rules for campaigns and US politics in general. Even if he is declared bankrupt and a fire sale takes place of property etc, I still think backers would find a way to financially support a trump campaign with little issue. The base will always crowdfund him and right wingers with very deep pockets will get around that $2k limit with ease.
You really have to hope he keeps upsetting the more placid republicans (sic?) who would like a return to some normality in their party. I don't think even on this side of the water I could put up with his incessant BS tweets morning noon and night, god knows what its like on TV over there having to put up with the noise.
Letitia James is trolling trump with daily updates on X stating how much interest has accrued on the, as yet unpaid, disgorgement plus interest.
It's about $110k per day - and rising!
ven if he is declared bankrupt and a fire sale takes place of property etc, I still think backers would find a way to financially support a trump campaign with little issue.
In campaigning terms his wealth is / was just part of his image - he somehow managed to keep forgetting to put any of his own money into the campaign - in the early days he would loan money to the campaign then take it back again.
Over the years he's probably given more money to democrat campaigns than his own
Aparently Donny is appealing the $455million ruling on fraudulently inflating or under reporting his assets.
But has not posted the required $455million bond required in order to lodge an appeal.
Oh well... he's got 30 days to rummage under the sofa.
I think the 30 days started 3 days ago so he has 27 remaining...I think.
But has not posted the required $455million bond required in order to lodge an appeal
Apparently it needs to be 10% above this figure, so a nice round half billion should cover it.
Never going to happen.
He is going to sell or list TRUTH SOCIAL one the stock exchange. Instant best tec business man eva.
1billon dollars
Truth Social?
I'm offering mac'n'fries with a bucket of coke.
EDIT: more seriously, in late 2023 trump estimated it's value to be between $5 mill and $25 mill; cumulative losses reported to be c$31.5 mill. Also reported that c$1 billion of investment capital was returned to investors; that may be correct but it sounds unlikely to me as trump isn't known for giving or returning money - to anyone.
I get the feeling if democracy in the US survives the next 5 years or so we might see a bit a polishing up of the constitution and a few new amendments to put some safety rails put in place to guard against some of this nonsense in future. Hindsight and all that.
It's a difficult line to draw though.
A few swings the other way and what if it was a (not quite so clearly too old) Biden being investigated by a Trump Partisan DoJ / Attorney Generals (not implying the current DoJ / AG's are being partisan).
Unless you can completely rule out political interference in the justice system then I think it's a good check and balance that the justice system shouldn't be able to interfere with politics.
trump has made it clear that the separation of powers - legislature from exective from judiciary - is something he wants to see gone.
IF elected, he will threaten the constitution in ways unimagined to date.
I never said he will get face value for it, twitter never made a dime.
Easy money laundry scam or the poor and cult members will go all in on a stock IPO listing.
That will take way more than 25 days.....
Be at least 35 years old
shouldn’t that now be 75?
Appellant jidge rejects trump's attempt to offer of $100mill bond to underpin appeal; says...no, full amount required if you intend to appeal but lifts ban on trump releasing equity through NY banks and assets.
On balance, good for the AG - not good for donny but could have been worse.
Apparently even fox news have started fact checking the orange shitgibbon in real time
On balance, good for the AG – not good for donny but could have been worse.
Offset with the breaking news SCOTUS will hear his immunity claim...🤨
SCOTUS taking up immunity claim - hmmm.
Won't be heard until late April with decision possibly as late as end June.
If no immunity, jury selection and discovery will then take at least two months.
US commentators saying this then allows team trump to say...we're now deep into electioneering so a trial will be election interference; with the counter that you've played delay, delay, delay.
If no immunity AND Biden wins, donny will be in deep deep shit.
The trump-friendly lawyer in the Mar-a-Lago case will be pronouncing further on Friday regarding scheduling; dependant on what she says, I wouldn't be surprised if Jack Smith moved to have her removed.
I wonder how the gofundme is progressing; will have a look and come back with an edit.
EDIT: gofundme update as promised - $1.28 mill - which sounds like a lot but it only covers 11 days of the daily interest accrual and makes no inroads into the $355 mill plus $100 mill interest on the financial benefit. In summary, thanks for the bucks suckers but...I need more.
If he’s gonna cartwheel into oblivion $1.28M gets plenty C&H. I’d happily gofundhim a big night out if I knew he was gonna blow his own brains out for a finale.
What's the hive minds thoughts on the "Fani Willis disbarment" efforts?
This whole distraction is a "FFS" moment. I can't believe someone in such a high profile yet vulnerable (politically) position can have let herself get into this mess. Poor analogy, but she needed to be, and seen to be, Teflon-coated to ensure shit like this got no traction whatsoever. 🤷♂️
In some better news, it seems like Team Trump's efforts to get her dis-barred suffered a set back when one of their witnesses was less than helpful to them when he admitted some of the information he passed to them was his speculation not fact...
Fani Willis disbarrment?
It looks unlikely to me.
The worst that could be said, IMO, is that she and Nathan Wade have shown poor judgement.
This is a sideshow as the substantive case against trump and his polyps has not been challenged in any meaningful way.
If she and/or Wade are removed, the case is unchanged; the difference is...who leads the prosecution?
If she and/or Wade are removed, the case is
unchangeddelayed
FTFY
and delay = victory for Trump
Sorry vlad - you're wrong.
It's a state case which means trump cannot instruct DoJ to dismiss it - if he wins.
If it's delayed, the merits of the case are unchanged and it will proceed.
A delay, unequivocally, does not equal a victory for trump; it might, at best, be winning a battle but it's miles away from winning a war.
If it was a federal case - which it isn't - he can/could/will have DoJ dismiss it.
Squeaky bum time for the donald?
Seems like he's only 'offering' it... I'm not sure that's how it works in court, but he's making an effort... gold star and smiley face sticker?
Someone should at least give him a lolly pop for being a brave boy.
lol!
It seems his many lies and boasts are coming to bite hard now. Suggesting he has $400m cash earlier in the case, but only offering $100m now isn't going to wash, plus moving registered office locations and another $40m.
I know his supporters won't see that, but the state / court / processes he's under will.
Supreme Court is going to take the immunity case 👎
I dunno, even the average billionaire probably does have $0.5B in cash / liquid assets. So it'll hurt for anyone to generate that much cash, even if you do have enough net worth (which I'm not sure he does).
Offset with the breaking news SCOTUS will hear his immunity claim
I can't imagine that they can come to any conclusion other than; no, you're not immune, even as President or especially as Ex-Pres. It even says as much in the Oath of Office.
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States"
If they make the man who's ultimate responsibility is to make sure everyone obeys the law is immune from those same laws, and decide that Donny attempting to stage a coup isn't even worth a day in court, then they may as well just appoint the next one as King for Life and have done with the whole 250 year experiment.
"I can’t imagine that they can come to any conclusion other than; no, you’re not immune, even as President or especially as Ex-Pres. It even says as much in the Oath of Office."
Double-edged as allowing immunity will likely see the last 3 justices appointed meet with unfortunate accidents and the plaintive too. HE's not called "Dark Brandon" for nothing. 🙂
Totally unsurprising.
https://twitter.com/SouthPoint1000/status/1763402752494088446
And this might cripple his ability to raise cash fast
https://twitter.com/SouthPoint1000/status/1763281824984568006
Nikki Haley looks to have overwhelmingly won the DC primary. Not that big a deal since Trump's obviously going to be overall winner, but, this is the first time in GOP history that a woman has ever won a primary.
Or, to phrase it differently, Donald Trump is the only man in history to be beaten by a woman in a republican primary.
is is the first time in GOP history that a woman has ever won a primary.
Or, to phrase it differently, Donald Trump is the only man in history to be beaten by a woman in a republican primary.
Interesting interview with Steve Bannon on the Newsagents where he seemed it was being conceded they were losing pretty much all the support of female republican voters for Trump, and were going after Black and Latino votes instead (with the 'oh look everyone, Sneakers, and they're gold' ploy). An particularly disaffected, male, black and latino votes.
I't would be interesting to see if theres a split evident in the support for Haley an Trump along those lines.
Would it be the case that Haley's support is largely female? Trump's campaign seems to be pivoting towards 'macho' men, which its seems to have interpreted as 'men who hate women'
Although Trump is beating Haley it's not by miles in vote share terms - although it appears to be is a lot by share 'electors' or whatever the primary equivalent is. The process makes the support for Haley seem less significant that it actually is as come the election it seems a lot of Haley's support won't vote for Trump
Supreme Court has decided that the US constitution says something it doesn’t say 🤷♂️ - gives a bad feeling about the immunity case
Just when you hope more than ever that the orange bloater is heading for jail time,mad Musk might be his saviour 🤔 😠
The perfect storm,when two throbbers collide .
Nikki Hayley to quit Presidential race. Been leaned on?
That is bad news. The shitgibbon doesn't need the easy ride he seems to be getting and she seemed to be a more reasonable and normal (e.g. had a brain, was not a child in adult clothing) and could appeal to the moderates.
Nikki Hayley to quit Presidential race. Been leaned on?
No one willing to tnrow good money at a lost cause, sadly.
Is is not just a case of simple maths - after Super Tuesday there just isn't enough 'points' (or whatever the weird scoring system is) for her to overtake.
I doubt Haley has been 'leaned on'.
US elections are dependent on funding and big money donors don't back losers; they have started to shift their focus to down-ballot votes and that will continue.
The primaries to date show a sizeable %-age of GOP voters - c40% - are consistently against trump and will be targeted by Biden and the Dems generally.
There is a hard ceiling to trump's support and I doubt it's enough for him to win in November.
It's shit sandwich time for the US electorate - the choice is orange bread or white and the bread is stale.
tthew - you mean delegates, I think.
tthew – you mean delegates, I think.
Yeah, that rings a bell. I can't find specifically that there's not enough of them outstanding that she couldn't win it, but she's sadly flogging a dead horse now.
I am sure a poster said earlier that she was just making herself the "just in case" candidate. If the rumours are true with his health (adult nappies etc), or he goes to jail, then she may present as a reasonable alternative in future. She maybe never intended to go all the way.
So, do we now have a situation as with the labour party a few years ago - the party members elect a leader (Corbyn) - the electorate says Heck No! and they are in the wild for a few years?
uggski - it's a 'catch all' term used to describe votes for lower level positions so state or local positions generally.
I see that Mitch McConnell has endorsed trump so that completes trump's takeover of the GOP establishment.
A very sad - and deeply concerning - day.
Bloody hell. I thought he'd stood down so he didn't have to kiss the ring.
US elections are dependent on funding and big money donors don’t back losers; they have started to shift their focus to down-ballot votes and that will continue.
Nikki Hayley was costing Donald Trump's primaries campaign $$$ on ads to fight her off. "Trump's campaign said it raised $8.8 million in January and spent more than $11 million, with outlays including more than $5 million on ads..." Joe Biden spent <$6mn for contrast https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-election-campaign-raised-88-mln-january-disclosure-2024-02-21/
uggski – it’s a ‘catch all’ term used to describe votes for lower level positions so state or local positions generally.
Thanks. Makes sense!
It's amazing to think that after all the shouting over the last 4 years about Trump, he'd be the second president to serve two non-consecutive terms, i can't see anyone but him being the Republican candidate, and Joe Biden is not going to do well in the election run up, especially in live debates, he'll be ripped apart for every error, and Trump, he'll just spout stuff without a care if it's factual, he just needs to make it sound factual to his voters, which basically means he just has to speak slowly and in plain english.
To be fair, i don't think Trump is the biggest problem if he's back in, he just wants the limelight and being top dog, it's the mentalists in the republican party and government who will try and vote through damaging motions whilst everyone is focused on Trump, same as Boris was for us, everyone focus on the performer that he was and not see the slight of hand of the other tories.
I see that Mitch McConnell has endorsed trump so that completes trump’s takeover of the GOP establishment.
Mitch McConnell had long ago fallen in behind Donald Trump. He invoked a little-used majority vote that eventually put three Trump nominees in the Supreme Court (Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett)
McConnell denounced the 2019 first Trump impeachment as "unfair".
He voted to acquit Trump during his second impeachment following the Jan 6th 2021 insurrection, despite saying that Trump was "practically and morally responsible" for the attacks
timba - I'm very aware of McConnell' s manoeuvres over the years; you didn't mention one of his 'star turns' when he refused to hold any senate confirmation hearings for Merrick Garland's nomination to the SC after Antonin Scalia's death on the basis that...it was too close to the election (6 months away).
That decision created the republican super-majority on the SC.
He was a politician par excellence
He has shown considerable personal distaste for trump so...I stand by my assessment.
Its collection day in the defamation case, Trump has to find 95 million dollars, maybe Musk will pay it? Or MBS?
Not quite.
Collection date is 9 March but trump's lawyers have filed various motions - reduced damages, delayed payments, payments on account and earlier this week motions to have the case dismissed and/or reheard.
Some of the motions have been rejected.
Several things strike me about their various moves - desperation as witnessed by the number and spread of motions; inconsistency - let's throw loads of shit and see if any sticks; the tried and tested delay approach - they could have filed motions to dismiss or have a rehearing within days of the damages award but have waited until only days before $ must be handed over either in payment or to enable an appeal.
As you, futon, suggest..he appears to be waiting for 3rd party funding.
I went to see what fivethirtyeight has to say but apparently it has died since last time I checked. However, I found where Nate Silver is hanging out now and...
It doesn't look good. Looks like we are going to have 4 years worth of Trump as long as the Democrats don't do the unthinkable and persuade Biden to step aside very very soon.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/its-time-for-the-white-house-to-put
Is it likely that anyone who didn't vote for him last time has decided in the intervening 4 years that he's worth another shot? I can't imagine it, so I reckon Biden will win again. (I've been known to be wrong in the past!)
Trump will win, bet you 50p.
50p!
I'm not usually a betting man, (well not since I got stung on here in an argument about converted camper van speed limits) but I'll risk 50 new pence. 🤝
I tend to go with the same view as @tthew, Yes Trump's won all the primaries, but with nothing like the majority that was expected in some cases 20-40% of republicans either voting for Hallie, or not voting Trump. Unlike 2016 which saw him as an unknown and outsider, many many more folks know exactly what a Trump presidency will look like and there are millions of republicans that don't want that at all.
Witness the shabby trainer release as a not-so-subtle nod towards the Black American vote, as they're haemorrhaging support with the college educated, the young, women...
The fate of Ukraine rests with this idiot.
Surely the Ukrainians can make him fall out of a window and make it look like it was Russians.