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Hopefully he can't drag things out past the November 24 election...
As someone that hates Trump, I disagree. What you’re arguing for is effectively an ability for prosecutors to exclude people from standing for election merely by charging them with crimes. Prosecutors often behave unfairly or overestimate the strength of their case. If you’ve got a conviction – well, maybe fair enough. But if you haven’t proved your case, then let the electorate decide whether the person shouldve elected.
I get that but 78 charges and he is clearly bent. There has to be a line when you’re running for President surely?
I’d love to see the orange shitgibbon go to jail but I can’t see it happening. Even if he does, it will probably be more akin to a holiday village than a prison and will be a ridiculously short sentence.
Innocent untiil proven guilty
If the republicans had any morals of course they would not pick him.
Innocent untiil proven guilty
He won't go to jail unless he's convicted. He's boasted about his offences many times over the years so I don't think there's much doubt about his guilt, the question is whether juries will decide he should be convicted or not - there are numerous rationalizations which are just variations on the idea that the law shouldn't apply to him.
Can the US provide a jury that will give an unbiased verdict?
Can the US provide a jury that will give an unbiased verdict?
In Washington D.C., yes. In Florida, maybe not. It only takes one juror to refuse to convict for the conviction to fail.
This makes interesting listening. Trumps lawyer admiting crimes on TV and in emails
He'd need to blend in to be a populist prisoner.😁
We can but hope...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/07/will-donald-trump-be-jailed-before-trial
Beau is always good to follow on this matter.
So far today:
1. judge has dismissed trump's defamation case against E Jean Carroll
2. bernie kerik, former NYC police commissioner and long time mate of giuliani, has met with Jack Smith's team after previously and persistently claiming various legal privileges
3. judge Cannon is questioning the legality of a DC grand jury's involvement in the Mar-A-Lago documents case.
So... 1 & 2 are good; 3 is less so.
Still to come, Judge Howell on the insurrection case and trump's lawyers attempts to delay, obfuscate and have the case moved out of DC to...West Virginia?
That well known bastion of fair mindedness - that is, apart from the rednecks and miners.
It's trump central, yes siree!
This is getting both more fascinating and more worrying.
Obviously Trump needs putting back in his box, but if he breaks any further restrictions and "dares" the judge to jail him, that could escalate really quickly with a potentially dangerous minority of Trump supporters.
the 5pm eastern time deadline for Donald Trump’s attorneys response to a request for a protective order in the January 6 case from special counsel Jack Smith, over a statement Trump made Friday: “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!” Trump, however, argued he was just exercising his right to free speech.
From the gruaniad blog.
After being specifically warned not to threaten witnesses he made that within hours.
MCTD - I really don't know what it will take for a judge to say...mr trump, you have crossed a line with your public and social media comments; continuation will result in punishment/sanction/something else.
I would be very surprised if Smith and his team weren't actively looking for ways to, using your phrase, put trump back in his box.
Failure to contain his emissions will encourage others to behave in the same way.
A bullet into what passes for his brain would be a possible solution.
tj - your post shows why, IMO, the first amendment right to free speech should be reviewed and updated.
trump has shown that so much of the US constitution is based on an assumption that people will behave reasonably and are, generally, honourable.
He is neither and by pissing on the accepted conventions has shown what *one* can get away with.
Well his lawyers have filed their argument based on free speech. I can't see the judge buying that. I expect the protective order to be granted and to be pretty broad.
the question then is will he be able to obey it? If not he is going to be remanded in custody.
Interesting - but predictable - that trump is meek'n'mild in court, saying nothing but as soon as he's out through the court door...yabber yabber.
He's running out of line.
the question then is will he be able to obey it
Not if someone goes on his forum and provokes it 👿
Looks like the judge is not buying his nonsense and attempted delays. Hearing on the protective order on Friday
Aand he's off - again.
Ranting and spewing bollocks at a rally in New Hampshire.
Jack Smith is a 'deranged lunatic'; Fani Willis is 'a racist'; the charges against him are 'bullshit'.
Fair to say he's not responding well.
I can't see his latest outburst going down well with the judiciary - or helping his lawyers make their case(s).
He just cannot help himself can he.
Good.
Lock him up!
Lock him up!
Lock him up! (repeat ad-infinitum)
Just out of interest, what does STW think the answer is for America? Biden? Really? Dig a little deeper and you will find that the whole job lot are utterly ruthless and utterly corrupt to the core. Republican or Democrat makes zero difference, different actor, same agenda.
I find it staggering that the best USA has to offer is a bright orange ultra narcissist with the worst comb over in history or a geriatric fruitcake that displays some seriously alarming behaviour especially around children.
STW seems to be naturally leftist so by default has to despise Trump but what is the alternative? Several more years of Biden who can’t even string a sentence together? RFK appears to be making ground and seems a decent bloke.
STW seems to be naturally leftist so by default has to despise Trump but what is the alternative?
At this point in time, anything but Trump...in the same way as "anything but the Tories" in the UK.
In both countries, the left wing have spectacularly failed to provide viable leaders but both options are less-worse than Trump/the Tories, IMO
I assume you mean RFK junior given RFK was shot a long time ago
He is a really nasty piece of work
Nowt wrong with BIdens speechmaking BTW and no signs of dementia and I would love to know what the slur about children is about.
RFK appears to be making ground and seems a decent bloke.
Oh yep, decent bloke alright
He compared vaccine mandates to Nazi Germany and promoted a film targeting disproven claims about vaccines to Black Americans. He touted the alternative treatments ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine, which have not been found to be effective at treating COVID-19. He appeared at the Christian nationalist ReAwaken America Tour alongside MAGA stars Roger Stone and Michael Flynn and QAnon conspiracy theorists.
Perfectly reasonable
Wi-Fi causes cancer and "leaky brain," Kennedy told podcaster Joe Rogan last month. Antidepressants are to blame for school shootings, he mused during an appearance with Twitter CEO Elon Musk. Chemicals in the water supply could turn children transgender, he told right-wing Canadian psychologist and podcaster Jordan Peterson, echoing a false assertion made by serial fabulist Alex Jones. AIDS may not be caused by HIV, he has suggested multiple times.
Makes Biden look proper senile, eh? How can he compete with the calm, clear-eyed sense of RFK?
RFK appears to be making ground and seems a decent bloke.
Are you mental?
The Kennedy genes seems to have been thoroughly wrung out before they got to this edition.
duir - tj has beaten me to it with his two responses to your post but...
RFK jnr is definitely a nasty piece of work; a little research would have shown that - he has also been condemned by his family.
Biden is not senile and can run rings around trump on matters of fact, understanding of details and ability to articulate policy.
If you like shouty politics, bullshit, lying and fraud trump should be right up your street.
Can you explain your comment about Biden displaying seriously alarming behaviour around children?
I'm all for freedom of speech, but not freedom of consequence of said speech.
For example Bruce Willis in hit movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112864/?ref_=tt_ch
Being reported that Georgia grand jury is expected to hear Fani Willis' case against trump next week so that's probably going to be (yet) another indictment.
It's all getting very tasty!
Just out of interest, what does STW think the answer is for America? Biden? Really? Dig a little deeper and you will find that the whole job lot are utterly ruthless and utterly corrupt to the core. Republican or Democrat makes zero difference, different actor, same agenda.
They absolutely do not have the same agenda. The Republican base is authoritarian and constantly spouting racist garbage. Honestly, they would think that Ronald Reagan was too liberal.
Biden is a centrist Democrat. Left-wingers are frustrated because he's to the right of them. Right-wingers re frustrated because he's to the left of them. However, he believes in fair elections, the rule-of-law, and all the other things necessary for a functioning democracy. The last election and the next one are really about one single issue - do you believe in democracy or autocracy?
Here's an example of how out of touch the Republican base is. If you don't know this issue, the referendum was about raising the bar from 50% to 60% to amend the Ohio state constitution. The reason Republicans tried to change that was because they want to ban abortion and then make it more difficult for Democrats to overturn the ban through a referendum. However, even in Republican leaning states like Ohio, there is majority support for abortion rights. Instead of taking a more moderate approach that sensible people would support, such as allowing abortions in cases of rape, incest, when the mother's life is in danger, etc., they have taken a scorched earth policy of trying to impose an unpopular position and then changing the rules to prevent a democratic majority from being able to thwart their power grab.
The idea that Democrats and Republicans have the "same agenda" is just utterly dishonest. They do not The Republican agenda is to impose unpopular policies through anti-democratic means. The Democratic agenda is to win elections and enact policies that have popular support.
https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1689067207563849728
WTF is 'Issue 1'?
I detest this kind of reporting style, as it has no context.
It was a statewide referendum in Ohio. Issue 1 was a proposal to raise the requirement to amend the state constitution by popular vote to 60%, up from 50%. Basically, Republicans know that harsh abortion bans are unpopular so they want to make it more difficult for Democrats to include win a referendum on that in the next statewide election. It's a transparent attempt to impose an abortion ban against popular will. Problem is, it will impose the same requirement on any other attempt to amend the state constitution, so it's going to be unpopular with any voter who thinks that being able to amend the constitution by popular is a good thing. The Republican base have alienated a huge number of Republican voters with this stupidity.
Here you go
My impression is that in Ohio this is known as Issue 1 and as Twitter is a short form news source reporting this way makes sense.
Issue 1 via 'X' or whatever it's called this week?
Sound.
I detest this kind of reporting style, as it has no context.
It may require you to do some background reading. Especially if you are not US based.
I have no idea what the key political issue in Chile is, but I wouldn’t get all het up if a local news report used a well known local short hand to inform it's local readership.
I expect anyone from Nicaragua uninformed about European geopolitics wouldn’t have a clue what Brexit is.
I expect anyone from Nicaragua uninformed about European geopolitics wouldn’t have a clue what Brexit is
Or 'Clause 28'
More legal troubles for the orange shitgibbon
The Fulton county district attorney investigating Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in the state of Georgia is expected to present evidence to a grand jury and ask it to return indictments as early as next Tuesday, according to two people familiar with the matter.
Also the hearing on the protective order is on Friday despite the shitgibbons lawyers attempts to delay
And more evidence hits the public domain
Federal prosecutors are portraying the memo, dated 6 December 2020 and written by Kenneth Chesebro, as a crucial link in how the Trump team’s efforts to keep him in power evolved into a criminal conspiracy, according to a New York Times report. The existence of the memo came to light in last week’s indictment of Trump
Chesebro? Is Binners moonlighting as a trump lawyer?
Just been reading about the Chesebro memo on the CNN politics website.
Something which was acknowledged at the time to be a (very) long shot, unlikely to survive a legal challenge and unlikely to be adopted by trump was immediately adopted and enthusiastucally embraced.
Interesting that the memo was not uncovered during the Jan 6 impeachment hearing which demonstrates it was policy to keep it well hidden.
As for Georgia, Fani Willis will need to come up with something new and different to the other indictments to gain any meaningful traction.
More legal troubles for the orange shitgibbon
The Fulton county district attorney investigating ... grand jury and ask it to return indictments as early as next Tuesday
How very apt. See You Next Tuesday, etc etc
CNN reporting that a document just unsealed confirms Jack Smith's team forced Twitter/X to give them access to trump's account @realdonaldtrump.
Neither trump nor his legal team knew - apparently.
This will amp up the pressure - and trump's rhetoric!
Excellent!
I was just about to post that
there is not enough popcorn in the world for me to enjoy while watching this unfold
The US special counsel who is investigating Donald Trump obtained a search warrant for the former president’s Twitter account, and the social media platform delayed complying, a court filing on Wednesday showed.
The delay in compliance prompted a federal judge to hold Twitter in contempt and fine it $350,000, the filing showed.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/09/twitter-fined-contempt-trump-case
I wonder whether they've made a similar request to Truth (sic) Social, with a similar NDA mandate...
Further reporting suggests at least a dozen indictments coming in Georgia.
tj - you should place a bulk order of popcorn and hobnobs.
Protective order now issued; doesn't give Smith's team everything they requested but gives trump's team almost nothing.
Will definitely piss trump right off so...good way to end the week.
I wonder how the odious orange one will attempt to subvert this.
Georgia indictment on likely racketeering charges possibly coming on Tuesday.
Send popcorn and biscuits - to me, not trump.
Surely there comes a point in time when you cut your losses... not so for trump, it appears.
Is that the advice in his book 'the art of the deal'?
I'm half tempeted to pirate it just to flick through it to see just how crazy it is.
In fact I just pirated it, in the interest of science...
I'm really struggling to get past the first sentence.
DON’T do it for the money. I’ve got enough, much more than I’ll ever need. I do it to do it.
Deals are my art form.
Full Caps in the first word.
Hm-Hmm okay then.
It reads like one of those hookey self help books.
And before anyone accuses me of copywrite infringement, I can actually download it for free, But I choose to pirate it, to avoid it getting more publicity.
Looking forward to him applying his art form to a Plea Deal. Whiney stupid orange ****.
I’m half tempeted to pirate it just to flick through it to see just how crazy it is.
Genuinely, it isn't. That's because it really doesn't have anything to do with him. I wasn't written by him, and really (although he is the subject) it isn't really about him. The bits that are about Trump are warmed-over profiles, the business part of it was written entirely by Tony Schwartz, and honestly if Trump and bothered to read it (if he can actually, read that is) He'd probably be a pretty successful property dealer in New York. Recently Schwartz has said that it was this book and the US version of Apprentice that made Trump look like a multi million dollar success story rather than the cheap crook he really is, and he feels with hindsight that it was a mistake. It did put his kids through college though, so there's that.
Thanks Tony.
Well, it’s taken Trump 2 whole days to violate the release order again.
What will the judge do?
futon - no reporting of that ^^^ yet on cnn, abc, nbc or cbs.
Judge in NY hush money case (stormy daniels) has denied trump's request that he recuse himself.
Georgia grand jury will start hearing subversion case today.
All good stuff.
Whiteness tampering in Georgia now
Saying 'He shouldn't testify' is pretty much as far from witness tampering as witness tampering gets. Possibly more to do with headline grabbing click baiting.
No doubt trump made the two posts which have been linked as 'Attacks judge' and 'Whiteness tampering'.
As an aside, what is 'whiteness tampering'? Is that what trump has been doing for his skin to become creosote coloured.
The hyperbolic interpretation of these posts bear little relation to the content and I cannot see any way in which the judge will look to censure or sanction trump.
The posts are stupid and will definitely not help trump's case .
Other than that, nothing to see here.
All the hosts on MTN are real lawyers, they actually know what they’re talking about, far more qualified than you lot or me 🤷♂️ if you watch the second video, the host breaks down the law, and relates it to what Trump posted. MTN are laser focused on Trumps criminality in a way that the Networks just aren’t.
Who are the hosts on MTN?
I ask because it would be interesting, for me, to read up on their backgrounds.
Ben Meisales is, I believe, a former lawyer.
His brothers, his fellow co-founders, are a video editor and marketing supervisor respectively.
I'll place my trust in the networks as they have a depth and breadth of expertise supplemented by broad access to external legal and constitutional experts.
All the hosts on MTN are real lawyers
Sydney Powell is a real lawyer. Rudolph Guliani is a real lawyer.
Also reported on CNN as “blatant whiteness tampering” - 🤷♂️
The Georgia indictment was briefly public earlier, I don't know the first thing about US law but it seems like they've gone all-in, biggest charge is RICO- racketeering and corruption, a serious felony and the sort of thing you usually see aimed at mob bosses. A whole lot of other conspiracy and solicitation charges, which apparently is as good as saying "we have coconspirators who've already flipped and testified". I'm sure he'll be very restrained and dignified about it
"BBC News North America Editor Sarah Smith is outside the courthouse, where the Georgia grand jury is still listening to witness testimony.
Smith says there was a flurry of excitement earlier when it looked like charges had appeared on the court website, but it turned out to be "fake news"."
@Northwind: seems the indictment posted earlier was false/pre-mature...(my bold above)
Saw that but doesn't necessarily mean it differs much from any indictment which may drop; the 'fake news' document, apparently, listed forgery as part of the charge sheet.
I anticipate that Judge McBurney won't hesitate to issue a protective order as soon as trump comments - as he is 100% certain to do.
Interesting to note that the Georgia charges - if any are brought - are 'state level' which means that trump, if re-elected, will be unable to pardon himself or instruct any of his administration to do so either.
Georgia State Board of Pardons and Paroles will decide - see extracts below:
The Board is the primary authority in Georgia assigned the power to grant pardons, paroles, and other forms of clemency. Parole is the discretionary decision of the Board to release a certain offender from confinement after the offender has served an appropriate portion of a prison sentence. Persons on parole remain under state supervision and control according to conditions that, if violated, allow for re-imprisonment.
Georgia is one of nine (9) states in the United States with a Board of Pardons and Paroles that exclusively grants all state pardons. Alabama (Board of Pardons and Paroles), Connecticut (Board of Pardons and Paroles), Idaho (Commission of Pardons and Paroles), Minnesota (Board of Pardons), Nebraska (Board of Pardons), Nevada (Board of Pardon Commissioners), South Carolina (Board of Probation, Parole, and Pardon), and Utah (Board of Pardons and Paroles) are the other eight (8) states in the United States with similar state boards.
A pardon is an official statement attached to the criminal record that states that the State of Georgia has pardoned the crime. To apply, the applicant must wait until at least five years have elapsed since the applicant was released from supervision (including probation and/or parole).
Clemency is given by the board at its discretion. The Board has the sole constitutional authority to commute death sentences to either life imprisonment or life without parole. Georgia is one of the three states whose governor does not have the authority to grant clemency, although the governor retains indirect influence by virtue of his power to appoint board members.
Whiteness tampering in Georgia now 🤷♂️🤦🏻♂️
Black and white criminal conduct.
Court is in session and judge is now on his bench so...indictment incoming.
10 indictments.
Reuters are standing by it, saying that no charges have been brought yet but that the document was posted on the Fulton County DA's office website then removed. Guess we'll see if it matches up soon enough
Washington Post reporting an indictment.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/14/trump-georgia-election-investigation/
An Atlanta-area grand jury returned an indictment Monday night after hearing from witnesses earlier in the day in the probe into whether former president Donald Trump and his associates broke the law when they sought to overturn Trump’s 2020 election loss in Georgia. Who has been indicted and the exact charges are not yet known.
From the Washington Post
An Atlanta-area grand jury indicted former president Donald Trump and 18 of his associates on criminal charges related to their efforts to overturn Trump’s 2020 election loss in Georgia, according to documents made public Monday night.
The charges came after a high-profile investigation, led by Fulton County District Attorney Fani T. Willis (D), and a marathon day in which multiple witnesses were spotted at the Fulton County Courthouse, signaling that investigators were closer to unveiling an indictment — Trump’s fourth since leaving office. The grand jury returned an indictment at around 9 p.m. Monday but the document was not made public until about two hours later.
Also, committing a crime is a clear violation of his release conditions in the Jan 6th indictment.