This is not a tipping point.
I suspect there never will be one. His comment about shooting someone on 5th Avenue and getting away with it was bang on, except now he could probably lay waste to a packed sports stadium and be fine.
for a lot of his supporters the only thing they'll think when they read any of this is :
"I wish I could cheat as well as that"
They don't want the bullying to stop, they want to be the bully
They don't want the system to be fair, they want to be the ones exploiting it
They don't want racism to stop, they want 'the others' to go away
They don't want everyone to benefit, they want to be the winners, which means there have to be losers
etc. They admire people that climb to the 'top', even if they step on them to get there, they're just looking for others to step on so they can do it too. It's a different mindset.
Might just make a few waverers waver a bit more
Well that's all it will take, the number of undecideds is smaller than ever this election due to the polarization. Hopefully tax avoiding on a massive scale will finally be enough for a steelworker in Pennsylvania or retiree in florida
Given the strength of polling, I think the only thing that is a big concern now is the shy trump voters, the unknown lumpen who are turned on by his racism and egregiousness but are just a little bit intelligent enough to actually be ashamed about it.
That and the transfer of power
They admire people that climb to the ‘top’, even if they step on them to get there, they’re just looking for others to step on so they can do it too. It’s a different mindset.
Exactly. Poor people don’t want obamacare/affordable healthcare because they don’t want to pay for everyone else ‘when I get rich’ 🤦
America, in my mind, is where Germany was in the late 1920's early 30's, under a major political swing. If Trump gets in for another term, especially in light of the recent nyt report, who knows where the world will be in a year or two.....
I wonder how far the democrats would get with ‘if you pay more than $750 a year in tax, the rich President thinks you are a mug’
That, along with anyone who has served the public good, be that forces or any sort of civil job, is pretty much everyone, no?
Actually, how about framing it as the people who DO pay tax effectively paying for his incompetence. The taxpayer funding loss makers sounds a lot like *wispers* socialism
except now he could probably lay waste to a packed sports stadium and be fine.
He effectively has, many times over.
He effectively has, many times over.
I was going to mention that, but there’s enough nutters to shout that down, I’m talking about him going seat to seat with a Gatling gun.
Might persuade some moderates that enough is enough…. Mind you, you’d think they would have thought that a few years back!
https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1310210307177041920
Lolz, apparently there’s a trump tweet lambasting Obama for paying 20.5% tax on 790k, whilst raising taxation levels. Presumably he thinks he should only have paid 0.1%
Sir David Attenborough this morning said: "The present administration in America is from a conservationists point of view, a disaster". "But there we are.That's who's been elected and we have to go through it".
Just another thing that Trump doesn't give a flying fig about.
Will Biden attempt to raise trump's tax returns and payments in the debate taking place tomorrow?
The 6 subjects have been decided but Biden must raise this - it's a clear open goal.
An electorate can and does forgive their preferred candidate/party or choose to ignore subjects; there a limited number of subjects which matter at the most personal level and money is one of them.
Anyone remember Leona Helmsley, massively wealthy and obnoxious US widow who did time for tax evasion, who allegedly said '...taxes are for the little people'.
That, I think, would be a great line for Biden to use.
The NY Times article is an interesting read.
IRS long running audit is into $79 million tax refund which trump claimed; I have no doubt that he is being obstructive as the risk to him is massive - fraud, repayment, costs, reputational damage.
His finances appear to be a masterpiece of creative accounting; $747,622 of tax deductible 'consulting fees' are an exact match to fees received by a consulting firm co-owned by his daughter lover ivanka; $100k tax deductible fees to hair & beauty firm favoured by - yes, you guessed, ivanka.
Bank loans falling dues over next 3 - 4 years; $300 million - where will he find that?
Timing of the article is perfect.
Will Biden attempt to raise trump’s tax returns and payments in the debate taking place tomorrow?
Clinton raised it in 2016, his response was 'that makes me smart' I think. But yeah, Biden will bring it up.
Depends how Biden's tax affairs compare....
For those in the TLDR cat of teh ny times article https://www.fastcompany.com/90556946/trump-tax-returns-top-5-jaw-droppers-from-the-nyt-expose?partner=rss&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=rss+fastcompany&utm_content=rss
Trump's main appeal to certain supporters is his ability to upset "the librul snowflakes".
It doesn't matter what else he does as long as liberals are upset.
So if not paying tax upsets the liberals then it is "a good thing" for his base.
They will admire it. Bizarrely.
Any attempt to say he is not paying his way will be met with "he donates his entire presidential salary" (ignoring that it isn't actually that much compared to the taxes and he makes lots of money by holding government business at his own resorts).
Depends how Biden’s tax affairs compare….
This is what he's made public. $1.5M federal tax paid in 2018 if I've read it correctly.
https://joebiden.com/financial-disclosure/
Well, we now know why he wants (at least) one more term... if he's not in charge in the coming years, he'll be bankrupt (again) because of how much debt needs to be repaid in that time, and because his dodgy tax refund claim could be declared invalid by the IRS.
“The present administration in America is from a conservationists point of view, a disaster”. “But there we are.That’s who’s been elected and we have to go through it”.
A scary watch.
This is the other side of the Trump family's business practices...
https://twitter.com/briankoppelman/status/1310397949831249920?s=19
'Q Right. But can you give people an idea of how much you actually are paying?
THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, basically — well, first of all, I’ve paid a lot, and I paid a lot of state income taxes, too. The New York State charges a lot, and I paid a lot of money in state.'
Just noticed one of his response. Is that possible with US tax? I thought both state and federal were progressive taxes based on declared income (well it is in New York). So how can you end up paying zero federal and 'a lot' of state income tax? 🤔
Isn't it interesting that when you turn up to a mansion in Florida and find that the person inside is heavily armed and threatening to harm themselves, you "create a rapport", whereas if you turn up to an apartment block in a ghetto and find that the person inside is unarmed and threatening to harm themselves, you shoot them.
whitestone
Free MemberHe claims his tax returns are “under audit” but surely there’s a time limit on that process – checked on the IRS site and three years is the norm but under exceptional circumstances “if we identify a substantial error” they can go back six years.
Basically it seems that he's managed to make the tax "audit" (which is a mix of audit and appeal and suit and countersuit) so complicated, with so much fraud, so much evasion, so much misdirection and so many simultaneous appeals and so much litigation, that it could take forever, unless they just settle and give up. A comment from a state tax officer in the last election was that he didn't understand why Trump didn't just pay his state taxes, since he was definitely spending more on fighting the bill than the actual bill cost- but then he realised that his state's bill impacted the federal tax and other states' tax so by tying one up he could tie them all up more.
Of course, being under audit doesn't mean you can't release your tax returns. And that's part of the genius of Trumpishness, people talk about why it's under audit and don't realise that it doesn't matter. He's not released his tax returns because he's not released his tax returns, it's the only reason.
scuttler
Full MemberSexual misconduct doesn’t stick, racism is good for business, dissing the military seemed reasonably toxic but unfounded
Dissing the military was absolutely founded. It's just that like Blue Lives Matter people, most of the folks who say they love the military didn't really care. The only mistake in that attack line was that people thought it was new, when in fact it was really just old news reheated that people had forgotten about because it's so unintuitive that people know about it and don't care.
Jamze
Full MemberThis is the other side of the Trump family’s business practices…
Every time people said "Having a businessman as president is good, he'll run the country like a business" I said "You know how he runs his businesses, right? Spends a load of other people's money, shafts a load of workers and small businesses using his expensive lawyers, then declares bankrupt and runs away with as much cash as he can fit in his pockets". And that's literally what's happened.
They admire people that climb to the ‘top’, even if they step on them to get there
The American dream
So how can you end up paying zero federal and ‘a lot’ of state income tax?
You can't. Trump (unsurprisingly) doesn't know what he's talking about, and is making it up. I would bet money that he's never completed a tax return in his life, legal or (probably mostly) otherwise. The Trumps have always avoided paying taxes, and have employed people to make sure that happens.
So how can you end up paying zero federal and ‘a lot’ of state income tax?
Rebates and refunds. As his lawyer says ‘he paid the tax, the fact it was refunded is irrelevant’. Remember those logical leaps I was talking about a few pages ago? That.
Wonder if this will have any impact - how Trump's campaign team used Facebook to actively suppress votes from Black Americans.
Hardly surprising really,. it's the same tactic that was used by Vote Leave towards "undecided" voters with targeted adverts, memes and outright lies about the EU...
Just watching the channel 4 news stuff now
A few years ago this would be genuinely shocking stuff
Nowadays?
Par for the course.
I’m sure they’re up to far far worse at the moment, that we’ll probably find out about in a few years time.
Probably explains why Parscale flipped out yesterday
https://twitter.com/profcarroll/status/1310614270758055936?s=19
We all know it happens but to see it laid out in black and white is shocking
This is the other side of the Trump family’s business practices…
Lolz from that thread
Give him a break. He couldn't pay his taxes because he's got loan spurs.
So many smug and arrogant bastards involved - trump, his family inc in-laws, associated hangers-on; can't wait to see them pay for their fraudulent behaviour and other criminal activities.
They could be the turds that sink to the bottom.
How I wish there was a penalty for smugness; a brick in the face seems about right to me.
donald junior speaks...
Thanks for that, shit for brains.
Without your father you would be nothing; when he goes down, that's what you will be - nothing.
No platform for your empty soundbites - bye bye you useless * with apologies to *s as they are far from useless.
Does he donate his salary to the Trump foundation? The one which does such stellar work buying expensive artwork to display in exclusive golf clubs frequented by billionaires.
A few years ago this would be genuinely shocking stuffNowadays?
Par for the course.
It makes you realise that even here in the UK that this is the new normal, and why its been normalised is because we think it has and we should just carry on as usual...this is how we lose.
V surprised no one has spent an evening walking his Scottish golf courses with glyphosate for company on a regular basis tbh.
That's a great read elbent. Dystopia as a slowly boiling frog
Premier Icon
pedlad
Full MemberV surprised no one has spent an evening walking his Scottish golf courses with glyphosate for company on a regular basis tbh.
I agree with the sentiment but that wouldn’t harm him in the slightest. It would however harm those poor people who have to work there.
Superb article elbent, thanks for sharing.
There is also massive and probably illegal surveillance on his golf courses
Just put Fox News Radio on the Sonos for a few hours, bit of balance. Blimey. COVID doesn't seem to exist, Trump is a business guru, Deep State, landslide is a definite for Trump, we all fiddle our taxes, nothing wrong with it, Clinton's emails etc. etc.
There is also massive and probably illegal surveillance on his golf courses
Yep, i took my ebike back in 2016 for a wee nightride over his turnberry course as i was up at a mates just off kirkcoswold rd and after a few drinks we decided it seemed like a great idea - we got chased by very slow golf buggies
Tonight's debate looms ever closer. Hoping and praying that Biden a) doesn't mess it up and b) manages to skewer Trump at least a couple of times. A decent performance from Biden and I think Trump's final ace-up-the-sleeve has gone.
The thing about his taxes is that multiple posters here are correct in that much of his base won't be too bothered re the avoidance/evasion aspect. They kind of admire that sort of thing. However, it does call into question his "Successful Businessman" angle somewhat, and that was a key part of many voters taking a chance on him in 2016.
Once his strategy of 'polarise the electorate and win the middle ground voters on the economy' crashed and burned he's been left with nothing to really run on. He can't bebthe insurgent candidate again, and enough people have twigged that he is the swamp.
If you look at polling numbers in the key states, Biden is significantly ahead of where Clinton was at this time in 2016 and way, way ahead of final numbers.
The image below shows how the figs compare (as I understand it). Also for more info go to www.270towin.com click on the menu button, select presidential and then polling averages by state. Very interesting and atvthe bottom of the page there is a link to an election map/result based on current polling averages. Currently Biden on 275 electoral college votes from states where his margin is more than 5%, and may of those are +10 & +15. Trump on 118. So Trump needs to win all 118 + 144 that are less than 5% for either (many of which - Florida, North Carolina - Biden is ahead in) AND take a state where Biden is currently over 5% ahead, quite a few of which are traditionally Democrat that flipped to Trump in 16.
Which is why tonight is so important. If Biden does okay (all he needs to do) then Trump is basically toast. And as for that talk of civil war. Bollox. Most of the militias are fat men playing with guns. They'd run a mile confronted with anyvreal military, not that that'd happen
somafunk - I'd have let them catch you. riding on golf courses is perfectly legal
we got chased by very slow golf buggies
Please tell me that there's helmet cam footage..... 🤣
riding on golf courses is perfectly legal
Not really, only to cross it. It’s one of the few detailed exemptions in the Outdoor Access Code.
riding on golf courses is perfectly legal
I may or may not have grabbed cheeky air during regular moonlit solo-rides all over the bunkers of S****** Gold Club back in the 1990s.
And even had I committed such a heinous, derelict act, I would sill not have thought it ‘perfectly legal’ 😎
#noskids
ferrals
Free MemberI also saw on twitter that the ‘Build back better’ name for covid recovery is directly pinched from Joe Biden’s campaign that was lauched a couple of months ago!
And he stole that from a Reef song ffs!
MSP
Full MemberDoes he donate his salary to the Trump foundation?
Nah, he donates it to government departments. They need the money because they're underfunded due to millionaires tax dodging.
And he stole that from a Reef song ffs!
Trump has spent his adult life placing his hands where they don't belong, so fair's fair.
I also saw on twitter that the ‘Build back better’ name for covid recovery is directly pinched from Joe Biden’s campaign that was lauched a couple of months ago!
Yeah, t'was pinched
Always worth posting a bit of Pie when the opportunity arises
Most of the militias are fat men playing with guns. They’d run a mile confronted with anyvreal military,
Homespun militia:
VS
Well played Martinhutch.
Oops. Looks like 'Trump's Army' of poll watchers aren't being allowed into polling places.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311051647687307264
Trump really is a very special type of special isn't he?
Wow.
wow, that "debate" was pretty bad. I thought ours were awful
Trump really is a very special type of special isn’t he?
Sadly not, there are people like him all over society. It's just that someone gave this one a huge amount of money.
I know he was never in the running, but I couldn't help wishing Cuomo was up there against Trump. Or Bernie. Or AOC actually.
Worrying telling that militia to "Stand back and stand by"
Love this line from the Grauniad coverage: "the debate pitted an ageing white male against an ageing orange male sweating like Richard Nixon in 1960"
Stand back and stand by:
That NS article by Paul Mason is deeply concerning - because it's an entirely plausible, possible probable outcome if polls and events are not in trump's favour.
In Jan 2017 that article would have read like a complete fantasy.
In Jan 2018, still hugely unlikely but concerning signs
By Jan 2019, authoritarian leanings on full display; refusal to criticise white supremacism; barely suppressed racism; there is trumpworld which is the source of all that's great, good and true - anything else is fake news.
Rapidly down the hole since then - wasn't great in first 2 years of his 'reign' but now, with an emasculated GOP unable to control him and his paranoid fear of multiple prosecutions which will forever destroy his name and expose him he will do *literally* anything to retain power.
His real personality is there for all to see and it's ugly, deformed, psychologically disturbed, sociopathic, narcissistic.
He sees only two possible election results - he wins the electoral college or the election is stolen from him.
Dark times in the US.
I don't think that Trump is a racist or fascist in the true ideological sense.
He hates everyone and is completely self obsessed.
He has simply realised that to keep this power trip going, appealing to right wing 2nd amendment base, is his best bet.
I now actually hate him, would not care if he was shot in the face in front of his family.
I really want it to end badly for trump, if he beats the rap and gets to spend the rest of his life playing bad golf and abusing whores then I'll be even more cynical, bitter and jaded than I am now.
He's the closest thing to Biff in back to the future 2 we have, a poor man's Mugabe, a blight on humanity, a shit smear on the planet.
I'll settle for a very public humiliation and indictments for the whole clan. Although even jail is a cushy number. The trump family needs to be cauterized so we don't have the prospect of junior or Ivanka running for office <shudders>
He didn’t try and win the “debate”, he just wanted to destroy it. Is he trying to come out on top democratically… or is he trying to damage the election and create chaos ready to play the strongman…? He may have a plan to stay in power for more than one more term… and that’s impossible without tearing up the democratic norms.
I doubt it was a debate in trump's mind; he saw it as an opportunity to demean, bully and insult Biden; a means to push his soundbite politics to his base.
He failed in attempting to belittle Biden.
As for his base, their votes are in the bag so why waste time and effort preaching to them.
The threat of chaos was explicit in his words.
We know he admires strongmen and political bullies; a glorified wannabe
The international context of a Trump demise:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/trump-biden-debate-failure-mbs-putin-boris-johnson
Just heard the organisation who arrange these debates are 'reviewing tools to allow the moderator to control the debate'. Maybe they'll be able to cut the mics if not your turn to speak, stop the interruptions. I vote for gunge tanks.
a poor man’s Mugabe
As insults go, that's a real beauty 👍👍
Biden looked like a frail old man. Made the raging satsuma seem dynamic (in a tartrazine toddler tantrum kind of way). Worrying.
A frail old man? He is!
I know USA election politics has become a WWF WWE takedown… but that might not be the best way to select a decent humane competent POTUS.
I'm not saying who I'd vote for I'm just commenting on how he came across
Yep, tbh Trump just seemed to do the standard issue Trump, but better than he has for a long time. Less gibbering, more actual sentences, basically managed to pull out a bit of "Trump before the syphilis ate his brain" for the evening. Whereas Biden... I dunno, he just didn't seem prepared to actually fight Trump. It's like he'd rehearsed and practiced for a debate against someone else.
None of it really matters- just like last time, teh debate happens and then your broadcaster of choice tells you who won and you believe it because it fits with your preconceptions. If it was really a debate I reckon Biden won it but it's not, and Trump definitely won the TV Game Show imo.
Biden looked like a frail old man. Made the raging satsuma seem dynamic (in a tartrazine toddler tantrum kind of way). Worrying.
Agree with the description of Angry Tinkerbell, but what I saw of Biden in the bits on the news was an experienced politician pushed to his limit of patience by said toddler throwing a tantrum, and just about maintaining grace under pressure.
Biden’s mental acuity is frequently called into question by the Donald and his acolytes, because he misspeaks or stumbles, ignoring the fact Angry Tinkerbell can barely form a coherent sentence, let alone an argument: Biden has had a lifelong struggle with a stammer or stutter, so his responses have to be much more considered, and slower, especially under that sort of pressure - I’m sure any on here who suffer that sort of condition will understand completely just how difficult it is to communicate clearly when in a stressed situation.
Something that has been picked up in the Twitterverse is Biden’s response to dT’s reply to the question as to when he would present his tax returns to the public, Biden says “Inshallah”.
Now, that means “God Willing”, but in regular use in Arabic-speaking society, that’s more sarcastic, meaning “whatever”, or “you said Tuesday, you didn’t say which Tuesday”, which isn’t something a frail, borderline senile old man would likely say; Biden is sharp as a tack, but is considered, he’s not a loud, obnoxious bully who’s gameplay is to shout down and talk over anyone who tries to engage with his repeated lies and obfuscation.
The Merkins who are going to decide this election won't see a considered, controlled delivery, they'll read Twitter and make the (fake news) senility connection.
I can see why he was briefed not to go head to head though, you should never argue with an idiot....he should do more ignoring the chump and speaking to the camera those were his better moments, I thought
As far as Biden being a frail old man, Trump can barely stand! Or, you know, walk down a ramp, or hold a glass, or wear clothes tailored for human-shaped people. Maybe we should just settle it with a square go.
Looks like they are considering changing the rules on the next debates, considering giving the moderator control of the mike etc.
Wow.
I can see why he was briefed not to go head to head though, you should never argue with an idiot…
Or wrestle a pig, you’ll end up as dirty as the pig, and the pig’ll enjoy it more.
Angry Tinkerbell’s comments concerning the Proud Boys, “stand down and stand by” is a clear rallying call to Y’all Qaeda.