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Negotiate with the Soviets who at that point had a non-aggression pact with Germany and were about to join Germany in dividing up Poland? I don’t think the Soviets looked like a potential ally until Barbarossa(sp?).
The pact was signed in August 1939, nearly a year after Munich. Chamberlain snubbed the Soviets when he should've been courting them.
In August 1938 – the Luftwaffe had less than 200 operational 109s – which were of the B/C/D variant. There other fighters were biplanes of similar performance values to the Gladiator.
At the end of September 1938 if the Munich crisis had resulted in war the RAF home fighter force would have been 25 squadrons,
1 Demon (Turret), 2 Demon / Demon (Turret), 3 Fury, 7 Gauntlet,
1 Gauntlet / Hurricane, 1 Gauntlet / Spitfire, 5 Gladiator and 5
HurricaneAlso 5 reserve squadrons with Demons.
So that's our baseline, I guess we need to know what aircraft availability/production was like by the time the war started, I'm guessing/half remembering/assuming the allies were way out producing Germany by then.
Surely there must be a definitive answer somewhere about how much 'war stuff' each side had accumulated over that extra year.
So that’s our baseline, I guess we need to know what aircraft
Sounds like a great idea for a thread 😉
Chamberlain snubbed the Soviets when he should’ve been courting them.
What is this, a game of "suck up to the least worst evil dictator?"
Gents, I used the Chamberlain reference to demonstrate a civil person going to a negotiating table assuming the opposite party would also be civil, the point still stands regardless of the revisionist history a few are banding around.
This is just one of many instances of this happening throughout history, and todays version is the US president.
Let's not derail the thread with what happened on the build up to WW2, even though there is the potential here for history to repeat itself.
Anyway enough of WWII live updates 😉 Off down to see how it's going in Manchester safe in the knowledge that binners if off to greggs in Cholorton
What is this, a game of “suck up to the least worst evil dictator?”
Which is exactly what Churchill did. I suppose he thought that an existential crisis didn't qualify as a game.
Gents, I used the Chamberlain reference to demonstrate a civil person going to a negotiating table assuming the opposite party would also be civil
*Sniffs the bait swims off*
Which is exactly what Churchill did. I suppose he thought that an existential crisis didn’t qualify as a game.
+1
Churchill said of Chamberlain ‘poor Neville, history will judge him harshly - I know because I will write it’ sums it up really...
The demo in Glasgo looked small!
@futon, today's glasgow and dundee ones are basically warmups, main event is tomorrow at the parliament. Still, didn't look that small? Police are saying 1500.
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/921/43345311652_dc47e1f9f0_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/921/43345311652_dc47e1f9f0_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/293h42w ]IMG_1457[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
Some Shots from the Manchester Protest before the rain came down, some choice words so a link to the album instead of the pics in here, also a warning that this album contains images of the Palestinian flag, we all know that might offend some people 😉
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/albums/72157699038369825
and in a bit of a meanwhile in other news
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/us/politics/mueller-indictment-russian-intelligence-hacking.html
WASHINGTON — The special counsel investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election issued an indictment of 12 Russian intelligence officers on Friday in the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton presidential campaign. The indictment came only three days before President Trump was planning to meet with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia in Helsinki, Finland.
The 29-page indictment is the most detailed accusation by the American government to date of the Russian government’s interference in the 2016 election, and it includes a litany of brazen Russian subterfuge operations meant to foment chaos in the months before Election Day
From phishing attacks to gain access to Democratic operatives, to money laundering, to attempts to break into state elections boards, the indictment details a vigorous and complex effort by Russia’s top military intelligence service to sabotage the campaign of Mr. Trump’s Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton
You would have to hope that at no point you stood on stage and asked people to do any of this 😉
It's fairly clear who Putin wanted in the white house and the why is unfolding in front of us all.
Album here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/autres_directions/albums/72157699038866425
Palestinian flag alert, as above, and for added hazard, Cuban flags.
Last time I saw denial as unconvincing as Trump backtracking on his Sun interview...
Surprised that paraglider wasn't shot down.
The conspirators corresponded with several Americans during the course of the conspiracy through the internet. There is no allegation in the indictment that the Americans knew they were communicating with Russian intelligence officers.
There is no allegation in this indictment that any American citizen committed a crime. There is no allegation that the conspiracy changed the vote count or affected any election result.
But, but, but, colllllluuuuuuuuussssssssiiiiiiiioooooonnnnnnn.... 😄
Laugh all you like. First up time to accept that there was active involvement from the Russian state in the US election.
They wanted this outcome.
You picked 2 statements there, yep these people were not the ones communicating with the Trump Campaign. However several people have been found to be chatting to Russian agents and officials and hiding that fact (sorry forgetting about it) They are separate charges, it's just common sense to not have the people doing the hacking as are communicating with the people who benefit from it
And a bit more context for your second quote...
Count Eleven charges two defendants for a separate conspiracy to access computers without authorization, and to cause damage those computers, in connection with efforts to infiltrate computers used to administer elections.
Finally, a forfeiture allegation seeks the forfeiture of property involved in the criminal activity.
There is no allegation in this indictment that any American citizen committed a crime. There is no allegation that the conspiracy changed the vote count or affected any election result.
The Special Counsel’s investigation is ongoing and there will be no comments from the Special Counsel at this time.
The efforts to hack election equipment may not have been successful but a the release of political information, hacking and all of that did play a part in the way things played out, it may not be something you can convict on but the investigations continue. More is being found and more people are getting sweaty over there.
Nothing to add other than liam fox is a xxxx of a man
did play a part in the way things played out,
Would you accept that having been revealed to have secretly deleted 30k emails to keep them from investigation, used an unsecured email server for classified emails, being handed the TV debate questions beforehand and rigging the primaries to undermine Bernie Sanders all played a part in the way things played out too?
Seems to me the Dem’s might want to look closer to home at why Donald won rather than indulging in conspiracy fantasies
Yep, turning up to tell us off for being disrespectful while Trump managed to show no respect to May or the people he has met on his travels so far. I'm sure he will have nice things to say about Putin though
Yep everyone knows that the emails played a huge part in election. So why did Putin want Trump in power?
He didn’t, remember - the Russians were out there supporting both pro Bernie and anti-trump protests
LOL the evidence is stacking up though
So far we have
Manefort
Gates
Kushner
Trump Jnr
Papadopoulos
Page
Cohen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_campaign%E2%80%93Russian_meetings
all meeting people they shouldn't be, any more I've missed out?
What were all these people doing meeting the wrong people?
As for supporting Saunders it would have been a good bet for destabilising too, but the DNC leak was dropped 10 days after he conceded, it played into Trumps hands. Anyway you can carry on seeing nothing at all here.
Shocked, I'm truly shocked he didn't do it himself
As for shameless and unethical
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/14/world/europe/uk-trump-scotland-golf.html
It's just one long marketing and subsidy exercise - I thought all these right wingers were against state aid to failing businesses.
14,115 messages about a US president, im starting to wonder who really is the mentally unstable one, the buffon, or the weekend mountain biker?
No one here rides mtb you idiot!!
Bikes when it cools down a little 🙂
My apologies road or gravel bike strava warriors.
https://twitter.com/katenustedt/status/1018097141900865537
It's lift off time!!
Glad you had the time to stop by rmacattack, or are you just mid ride?
Andorra is on live, that takes priority
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/13/trump-fake-news-fox-cnn-theresa-may
Trump’s communications strategy of repeating false accusations while also shifting his position from a stance that he held just moments before, is an exercise in Orwellian doublethink. Witness a statement issued by the Sun after the press conference, in which the paper denied that Trump had branded its interview “fake news”.
Here’s what Trump said on Friday about the Sun’s interview: “Unfortunately, there was a story that was done which was, you know, generally fine, but it didn’t put in what I said about the prime minister, and I said tremendous things, and fortunately we tend to record stories now, so we have it for your enjoyment if you’d like it, but we record when we deal with reporters. It’s called fake news.”
Here’s the Sun’s statement: “We stand by our reporting and the quotes we used – including those where the president was positive about the prime minister, in both the paper and in our audio – and we’re delighted that the president essentially retracted his original charge against the paper later in the press conference.
“To say the president called us ‘fake news’ with any serious intent is, well … fake news.”
One of the maddening features of Trump’s communications technique is that even as he masquerades as a factchecker, he simultaneously tells towering, easily debunked lies. The May press conference offered up a gem of the genre, when Trump went on a riff he has used before about how he had predicted Britain’s decision to exit the European Union when he opened his golf course at Turnberry in Scotland.
That visit came on 24 June 2016, the day after the British referendum, when the leave victory was already confirmed. One cannot predict something that has already happened.
Take a look at the documentary on the Iplayer
In episode 3 he directs his anger at the press covering one of his ego rallies/fund raisers lies to the crowd and tells them to get angry at the press in the room who look visibly shaken with no security.
Those who follow him seem to just go with it, any fact checking is just the establishment who hate them anyway. It's a shameless process really and nobody remembers the retraction.
Enjoyed the protest photos!
Yeah, was good to see the effort that went into them, lots of kids and young people there too, I wonder if we have created another protesting generation here
What mike , you mean another liberal left snowflake generation, That takes no responsibility for their own actions? I think we know that's already been determined by the previous generation.
sorry yer what???
Who tweeted that for you to parrot out?
Which generation sold everything off, which one stripped the planet? which ones polluted it?
Where as these people are standing up to discrimination, inequality, racism, sexism and more.
"We have a recording that proves it's fake news. No you can't hear it."
Maybe they are in the same box as the Comey Tapes
There is a lengthy article about the "death of truth" on the Grauniad:
With regard to the current visit, Trump has told a number of massive lies, including:
1. the Sun omitted his praise of May. Clearly a lie as a reading of the article or a listen to the recording will tell
2. he predicted Brexit whe he visited Turnberry the day before the vote. It is a matter of public record that he was in Turnberry AFTER the vote, but he repeats it and Melania's press secretary agrees and claims to have photos to back him up
3. his claim that Germany will get 60-70% of its energy needs from the gas pipeline from Russia. This has hardly been challenged, despite being totally false. May agreed that she would raise the issue with EU leaders. I assume that Merkel will send her off with a flea in her ear.
Walking towards and then waving at the protesters!
Class 😄
So. Total disaster of a visit by a ludicrous nitwit who can't keep a straight line of thought in his head from one interview to the next.
Add them to the list if his other failures.
I see ninpoop is back with us. I'm sure he'll explain how it all went wrong just like he did the other ones.
Oh, wait...
his claim that Germany will get 60-70% of its energy needs from the gas pipeline from Russia.
No he didn’t.
President Donald Trump repeated a highly misleading claim on Friday that Germany will soon depend on Russia for 50 percent to 70 percent of its energy needs.
- President Donald Trump claimed Germany could soon rely on Russia for up to 70 percent of its energy.
- While Germany gets about half of its natural gas from Russia, the claim is highly misleading.
- Natural gas is a significant fuel source in Germany, but it only accounts for about 20 percent of Germany's energy supply and consumption.
yes he did, fake trolling.
No, he didnt
go back and listen again, he said:
"Germany is totally controlled by Russia because they're getting between 60 to 70% of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline,"
Not
Germany will get 60-70% of its energy needs from the gas pipeline from Russia
“They are getting” (not will get)
“Russia and a new pipeline” (not “from the gas pipeline from Russia”)
Entirely different claims, you are saying he is lying but can’t even be bothered to quote him accurately enough to analyse the statement.
- Natural gas is a significant fuel source in Germany, but it only accounts for about 20 percent of Germany’s energy supply and consumption.
Who claimed otherwise? What about Coal and Oil? 40-50% of German oil Imports are from Russia, as is about 30% of their coal
What timescale are you talking about - if the annual consumption is in the region of 40-50% then what do you think is the proportion of energy imported from Russia in winter months, how about nighttime? (No solar)
what happened was you jumped on the anti-Trump bandwagon and shouted “Lie” rather than using your own critical analysis of the statement, which would instead have left you shouting “show your working”
personally I find this one of the saddest things about Lefties - they just swallow the first piece of amateur and flawed reportage that comes past just because it reinforces their own preconceived opinion. No wonder there is such an epidemic of #fakenews if they can’t be bothered to look for subtle differences that entirely change the substance of the answer.
Tell us what percentage of German energy is supplied by coal nitwit.
Power production - 14.1% hard coal, 36.6% if you include Lignite.
note the words ‘power production’ rather than ‘energy use’, because of course that excludes other energy consumption such as domestic and industrial gas use and oil products including transport
Ninnie "Fake News"
So even if Russia supplied all of Germanys fossil fuel supply at current proportions Trump would STILL be wrong, and that takes no account of rapidly increasing renewable use. Great analysis nitwit.
Go on then maybe you could tell us when he last visited his failing golf course was it the day before or day after brexit? (where he claims to have predicted the result of the referendum)
Or when he will release the tapes of him saying nice stuff about May that they didn't print?
Or When Regan lost Wisconsin
Any one of these great lies will do....
So after slating all of his allies in NATO how much do you think he will be praising Putin next week?
So even if Russia supplied all of Germanys fossil fuel supply at current proportions Trump would STILL be wrong, and that takes no account of rapidly increasing renewable use. Great analysis nitwit.
I told you, what’s your timescale? Annually I presume?
Now track it back on a different timescale, say winter months only (higher domestic gas use for heating etc. longer nights reducing impact of renewables) and it’s easily into those figures.
Nothing to add other than liam fox is a xxxx of a man
Missing an odious but I concur.
Still making it up Ninny ?
And the obligatory disgraced former title.
What you say makes no sense as well you know. Trump was talking about the gas pipeline. If he actually was concerned about oil and coal he wouldn't have made such a big deal about gas. You are desperately using his sloppy and imprecise language to find some bizarre way it could be not a simple lie, but it just doesn't work.
Lessons in simple logic for a simple person,just because you feel you can prove Trump didn't do something,doesn't mean he didn't do anything,or that he didn't do a specific other thing,or is your understanding of logical thought so different from ours ?
If he actually was concerned about oil and coal he wouldn’t have made such a big deal about gas.
If he was concerned about gas he wouldn’t have made such a big deal about energy
You are desperately using his sloppy and imprecise language to find...
back at ya!
just because you feel you can prove Trump didn’t do something,doesn’t mean he didn’t do anything,or that he didn’t do a specific other thing,
I agree
Look, here’s Trump predicting Brexit.
http://www.itv.com/goodmorningbritain/news/top-five-headlines-youre-waking-up-to-thursday-24th-march
You've resorted to throwing dust in your opponents eyes,a logical fail if I ever saw one.If you have clear and logical arguments,why do you need to keep changing your line of attack,or do you feel your arguments are so poor that you must try to mislead us at every turn.I think think you take after your hero,Trump.
Yep. And unless I'm not mistaken, that is not Turnberry. Thanks for the confirmation.
Here's a suggestion nitwit - decide what you want to write and then write it. Don't write the first thing that comes into your head and then go back and edit it later. It gives people the idea that you are just a time-wasting troll.
Go on then maybe you could tell us when he last visited his failing golf course
ninpoop doesn't like dealing with Trump's failures - it ruins his bedroom poster of Flump as the Superhuman Business Genius Of The Universe.
No I'm not.
Stand up DrJ,you are accusing him of using sloppy and imprecise language.I also think that he does,but unlike you,I feel it is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.
Oh,and just for the record,I feel the Donald has the charisma and sex appeal of a pubic louse,and how much of of his father's money has he lost so far? Not quite the uber-businessman?
I do think Donald lacks the congenial personality of a pubic louse,whose life is a celebration of the sexual act,and has never had to pay off someone for something that did not happen.
Clip clop.
It gives people the idea that you are just a time-wasting troll.
Well he is 100 percent a troll but the time wasting is you lot actually 'debating' with him. Not sure why you bother.
Anyone that tries to defend Trump is clearly a troll and the only reason you would try to defend such blatant lies is to troll
I know,but he is so obvious,and so loose with the truth,that sometimes I cannot resist.He also seems to shut up for a while after I post,not sure why.
https://twitter.com/caitlinmoran/status/1018100945262206976
The one that needs it the most but plenty others could do with the same treatment
@kerley - normally I wouldn't waste my time but I was waiting for somebody and he directly contradicted something I posted.
Subsequently I see he did one of his stealth edits to make it seem like I said something I didn't
A good lesson for me, I suppose, that however much time you have on your hands it's never worth wasting it on nitwit.
My heads still spinning over the Sun interview and him calling it fake news then trying to squirm out of it.
trade deal like fk....you’ve got to be a certain type of dense to think he’s going to be of any use unless we start making Ivanka goods.
I think if we apply duck typing on him he’s defo Russian stooge.
My heads still spinning over the Sun interview and him calling it fake news then trying to squirm out of it.
When looking at it from the perspective of him being a psychopath it all makes sense. Whatever he says is true, everyone else must be wrong and must listen to him, he is much smarter than everyone else so can fool everyone and no-one will ever catch him out etc,.
To be fair he has some elements of a sociopath in his behaviour as well. And a bawbag.
I've seen quite a few Trumpers posting pics showing how small the British anti Trump marches were, weirdly though the people I know who were there are saying the opposite. Haven't seen many pro Trump crowds yet, guess the news have somehow missed them. It's almost like he isn't popular over here.
Haven’t seen many pro Trump crowds yet, guess the news have somehow missed them. It’s almost like he isn’t popular over here.
The bbc had some pics, think it was just the one looked very small and very Er white with a lot of Israel flags somebody should have got down there with some Russian flags too just for fun.
Not sure if this has been noted already, but, Agent Orange halted the discussions meeting on Georgia and Ukraine joining NATO. Definite win for Putin.