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As funny as it is seeing him in an orange play suit, can we please try to remain objective?
The guy is abhorent, so don’t stoop to his level.<br /><br />
Frankly, we’d be stooping to remarkable levels in order to get down to his. And how can anyone be objective when faced with someone who’s spent most of his life indulging in criminal behaviour and corruption, and demanding that he be allowed to carry on doing it, because he’s the (ex) president.
There are things I could call him which would be correct, but get me a stern talking to from the mods, without ever getting down to his level.
I agree with you, don't get me wrong.
Trump is actualy trying to test the american legal system to breaking point (for all the wrong reasons IMO), but it is being tested in court, some of the highest courts at state and USA level.
Quite a power move for a fat 'elite' golf player who can't even play golf properly by most accounts.
It will be very fun to see how it plays out... he's not even in government, he's the US version of Nigel Farage.. just a twit with a big mouth, metaphorically speaking.
Making a lot of noise from the side lines.
Meanwhile in reality...
I'm no gamblin' man, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and it was a white christian extemist what dun this.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here, and it was a white christian extemist what dun this.
Ex-military firearms instructor with a troubled history.
https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/us-news/2023/10/26/6539d51e22601d92678b457b.html
So it was a white christian extemist what dun this?
Not a man of colour or a Mexican, or one of those A-rabs?
I'm shocked, shocked I tell thee!
I get the point you're making, and am all for blaming religion for suffering out there, but the links don't show that the shooter had any ties to Christianity, or any other religion.
They will, give it a day or two.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
the links don’t show that the shooter had any ties to Christianity, or any other religion.
Exactly, best to hold off on the speculation. Initial reports said he had a record of mental health issues and heard voices. Another report said that he might have voted for Obama years ago.
Not all violence is committed by right-wing religious zealots, the key difference is that liberals don't celebrate calls for violence.
They will, give it a day or two.
To be fair to @mattyfez, the overwhelming body of evidence points in that direction for most of these sorts of shooters, like him I'll amazed if there not a link to QAnon, or Proud Boy or Oath Keepers or some other deranged group of right wing gun enthusiasts
Another report said that he might have voted for Obama years ago. Not all violence is committed by right-wing religious zealots
No, but most of it is, and let's not forget, Ashli Babbitt (shot in the insurrection of Jan 6), was also an Obama voter.
Ivanka to testify next week, Trump to testify the week after - as hostile witnesses. Going to be interesting - a tsunami of purgery?
https://www.theonion.com/trump-s-closest-allies-explain-why-they-re-flipping-on-1850959394/slides/17
Herman Cain
“I died.”
No, but most of it is, and let’s not forget, Ashli Babbitt (shot in the insurrection of Jan 6), was also an Obama voter.
That checks out because it was antifa and the looney left that stormed the Capitol. According to people who have probably married within a very narrow gene pool.
The 14th amendment case to keep trump off the ballot in Colorado opens in court Monday 30 October.
Expected to last one week.
Intetesting it's got as far as court so this could be one to follow.
frankconway
Full Member
The 14th amendment case to keep trump off the ballot in Colorado
What are the two world consequences? He couldn't become president? Genuine question btw.
14th amendment cases can only be brought at state level; there is no provision under it for a federal case.
Very limited potential to affect trump - other than hurting his ego.
Still interesting IMO.
Somebody said a few pages back that if he can't go on the ballot in Colarado, that basically excludes him from everywhere. Makes sense to me.
Is Colarado normally a Democrat or Republican state?
Somebody said a few pages back that if he can’t go on the ballot in Colarado, that basically excludes him from everywhere. Makes sense to me.
Is Colarado normally a Democrat or Republican state?
It was a pretty solid win for Biden last time.
https://www.270towin.com/maps/2020-actual-electoral-map
The problem with U.S. presidential elections is that they are conducted by each state, then the state sends electors to vote in the Electoral College. The idea of refusing to allow a candidate on the ballot is untested legal theory and the solid MAGA states will definitely have Trump on the ballot. The only way to defeat Trump is to beat him at the ballot box, trying a legal gambit to keep him off the ballot will just energize his supporters.
tthew - no; the outcome of the Colorado case has no bearing on the ballot in other states.
Colorado has voted Dem in the last four elections; governor and state legislature also dem.
The make up of those bringing the case is interesting in that it includes 6 republicans.
As for the case '...energising his supporters' it won't move the dial - his supporters will still vote for him (noisily), dems will not change their voting and undeciceds are unlikely to be influenced by this.
trump and his supporters will make noise but that's all.
What I meant was, he is barred from the vote in Colorado and the decision is appealed at the US Supreme Court, and the decision is upheld, then that becomes law throughout the country, AFAIK! I’m not a constitutional expert though 😉
I don't believe that's how it works.
My understanding...
It's a case at state level so any/all appeals will initially be to/through the state judiciary.
If it got as far as the Supreme Court they would be ruling on the state case only.
14th Amendment case in Colorado:
One of the police officers from J6 is testifying. Not a good day.
Similar case in Minnesota starts on Thursday with pre-trial hearings.
What is J6 and why does that make it not a good day? Not a good for Trump or the rest of us?
By "not a good day" - I was referring to the testimony from that police officer in the court case in Colorado. Pretty harrowing.
I'd not seen the bodycam footage before, really ugly.
The BBC documentary on the Capitol riots was harrowing, it was like a medieval battle at times
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0010tff
Of course...and I've clearly lost sight of that in my last 2 posts as they were asked in ignorance.
Genuinely sorry for my complete lack of thought there. I was just thinking about the fact this would be bad for Trump without considering the actual events.
The Mango Mussolini's little boy is in court today giving evidence, which should be fun.
Sounds a bit clueless based on this.
https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1720084038768291925
But now he doesn't remember important stuff:
https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1720112137052340325
Trump Junior's defence seems to be that if you pay people to do things on your behalf it's not your fault if they do what you ask them to. He seems to be saying that he's especially innocent because he paid them a lot - the more you pay the more blameless you are - no matter how much you've benefited from those acts.
Shakespeare had less back stabbing than this lot
Interesting strategy:
Donald Trump goes after judge for 'persecuting' his sons
Over the last couple of hours, Donald Trump has been sharing a flurry of posts on his social media, Truth Social.
He wrote in one of the posts: "Engoron is a wacko who is having a great time endlessly sanctioning, fining, & pushing around “TRUMP,” hurting my very good children, & working to damage & defame me for purposes of Interfering with the 2024 Presidential Election.
"So sad to see my sons being PERSECUTED in a political Witch Hunt," he wrote in his most recent post.
He also lashed out at what he called "fake news" covering the trial.
How close is he to breaching the gag order again?
How close is he to breaching the gag order again?
He seems to be being careful just to attack the judge who didnt include himself in the restrictions.
I guess he thinks it is the cost of being a judge but he wasnt willing to tolerate his staff being targeted.
A concept the orange buffoon probably cant really understand but is still managing to take advantage of.
It wouldn't surprise me if the judge was considering amending the gag order to make it tighter.
trump's comments and posts are intended to denigrate the judge, impugn his professional good name and affect him personally.
I have little doubt there is a limit to how much of this the judge will allow.
trump's volume control is permanently set to max except when he's in court where he sits like a naughty child scowling at the grown-ups; that absence of volume control is getting increasingly tiresome and will, I hope, result in 'consequences'.
The odious orange one will be on the stand tomorrow, Mon 6 Nov, in the NY fraud case.
That could be very interesting.
Mr trump, you are a fraudster - is that correct?
It should be fun. I'll have the popcorn ready. Want to bet he tries to grandstand and make speeches and loses his temper?
His defense will be its all the accountants fault - he didn't do detail I bet
If previous form is anything to go by he'll sit there looking petulant but do his best to say nothing at all.
or maybe he will just stonewall - "I can't remember" " Plead the 5th amendment"
But I bet he will try to grandstand. He will be on the stand under oath
His defense will be its all the accountants fault – he didn’t do detail I bet
I thought that there had already been a finding by Judge Engoran that fraud had been committed by Trump Org. This is now about how much money they defrauded out of banks, insurance companies and tax payers by inflating and deflating asset prices. They then have to pay that back (hundreds of millions).
I fully expect the judge to instruct/request that trump's answers are restricted to yes or no - wherever possible.
The judge, IMO, will not tolerate any attempted grandstanding.
As for pleading the 5th, if he does so the judge is fully entitled in law to take an adverse inference from the refusal to answer.
Stonewalling is likely to be unsuccessful given the mountain of documents the DA's office has and will use to remind him of what he claims to not remember.
This case is about inflating the value of assets to secure better lending terms but what happened to the allegations that assets were undervalued when submitting tax returns?
That would/should be of interest to the IRS as it is tax avoidance/evasion.
Got him either way. Either inflated worth so fraud or correct worth so tax evasion.
This case is about inflating the value of assets to secure better lending terms
The case has already been decided though, the Judge found Trump Org. to be guilty and the process of having his business licence revoked is currently awaiting an appeal hearing. This is just about the limit of liability and a value of the remedy
I thought it was both though; elevated values for the loans/ego and then reduced values when it comes to paying taxes?
Would be a shame if this were to lead to another criminal trial eh?
Trump etc have been found guilty of 1 charge, fraudulently inflating the value of their properties, I think there are 5 or 6 other charges, (plus disgorgement), where intent has to be proven, hence the trial, where the prosecution has to prove intent.
Yup. So now we know - grandstanding and being angry that the great Trump is being held to account by all these little people
Just picked up the BBC live feed, sounds fun.
So if the defence team can't control their client, what will the judge do?
Sweepstake on the next fine?
As far as I can tell this case is about over valuing his estate to gain better loan terms and now he is saying that they are undervalued, will the IRS be interested in his statement?
So if the defence team can’t control their client, what will the judge do?
the Judge said he will throw Trump out of the courtroom and draw every negative inference from his lack of testimony
Trump had previously undervalued his property to avoid tax - he has over the years given massively different valuations depending what cost him less. I think IRS will be waiting their turn
I can't wait for the odious orange one's press conference when he gets off the stand - either at end of day or earlier if the judge kicks him off.
He really is tying himself in knots but, no doubt, his base will see it as 'sticking it to the man'.
Trump case today...
The state is asking about a 2021 financial statement. Trump says he thinks it's accurate - he hopes so.
“I was so busy in the White House,” he says, adding his focus was on China and Russia.
"For the record, you weren't president in 2021 were you?" prosecutor Kevin Wallace asks.
Trump says no.
Trump sits up and smirks with his arms crossed when Kise stands up to object to a line of questions about a 2012 interview with The Wall Street Journal.<br />That year, they told a reporter that 40 Wall Street was worth $600m. He said he doesn’t remember if he is the “DJT” in an email about it. He also doesn’t know if his email at the Trump Organization is his email.<br />“I don’t know,” he said. “Not that I know. Might be.”<br />He eventually conceded it was him.<br />Court breaks for lunch. Trump makes no comment outside the courtroom to the waiting media.
The judge must be pulling his hair out... how long before they do him on some sort of contempt of court charge?
I love that in a case where Trump stands accused of inflating the worth of his property portfolio he's standing in court saying that in those statements they were in fact undervalued. Well,the thing is, thats not a good thing either and your accused of doing that too 🙂
On a side note..... if theres one good to come from all of this - theres lots of choice for Trump's official Whitehouse Portrait.
https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/DH4ILZROGII63PGGBB2LE2XCSY.jp g" alt="" />
Trump in court:
Counsel: did you prepare the 2021 financial statement
Trump: ‘I was so busy in the White House, focusing on Russia and China and keeping our country safe’
Counsel: you weren’t president then
https://twitter.com/jonsopel/status/1721571651513405832?s=61&t=ucVo0ItO-6o8jD0p0YhE6g
Well of course you under value assets for tax purposes and over value when applying for credit...it's called fraud. Tax fraud, and insurance fraud, etc.
it’s called fraud.
I think in his 2016 presidential debate with Clinton he called it 'smart'
The tax system in the US is so heavily stacked in favour of the rich. There are so many legal loopholes that you can minimise your tax bill it's just stupid and greedy and obvious to lie. His base will be lapping up all this victimhood and witchhunt nonsense but the genuinely wealthy elite that Trump has always failed to be accepted by will just find all this hilarious.He tried to game a system that was already rigged in his favour.
Imagine getting to deliver the "But, just for the record, you weren't president in 2021" line. How do you live the rest of your life after that? Knowing that you've already had your perfect moment and nothing can come close.
The "yes I committed fraud but it was IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, psyche!" defence is pretty good too
Wandering around youtube I found this chap doing analysis. I'm slightly suspicious of him due to his sharp suits 🙂 but it seems to be good anaysis by and large so long as you have your pinch of salt with you
https://www.youtube.com/@briantylercohen
this vid discusses the tax implications from around halfway
Trump currently appears well-placed to defeat Joe Biden in next year's US presidential election.
The latest opinion poll suggests that Trump is leading Biden in critical swing states.
BIden needs to stand down and they need to find a decent candidate. Its one of the things I find weird in politics that parties choose as leader poor candidates. Hilary Clinton was a poor candidate, Biden is, Corbyn was, Sunak, Truss, both are.
Surely the Democrats can find a better candidate? there must be able folk with good appeal in the party?
But the problem is that persuading successful (to have got there in the first place) incumbent politicians to step aside ain't that simple as all your examples demonstrate really.
BIden needs to stand down and they need to find a decent candidate. Its one of the things I find weird in politics that parties choose as leader poor candidates. Hilary Clinton was a poor candidate, Biden is, Corbyn was, Sunak, Truss, both are.
Surely the Democrats can find a better candidate? there must be able folk with good appeal in the party?
This topic came up in the News Agents podcast yesterday. Interestingly, once you do some data digging whilst Kamala Harris is not that popular with democratic voters generally, the poles suggest she is popular enough to win the safe democrat states still but crucially is more popular than Biden in the swing states and would currently beat Trump in the presidential race.
Just another nail in the coffin as our western world view withers on the vine, with the rise of the indo pacific states and china we are heading into a new era
this made me laugh
"
The book also contains a priceless anecdote about an exchange between then president Trump and the former German chancellor Angela Merkel. Following the engagement, he bragged to a Republican congressman, who promptly shared the story with Karl, that Merkel had gone out of her way to compliment Trump over the large crowds he attracted at his rallies.
“She said she could never get crowds like that,” Trump is reported to have gloated. “In fact, she told me that there was only one other political leader who ever got crowds as big as mine.”
Karl notes drily that the congressman was left wondering whether Trump had any idea of the individual to whom Merkel was alluding. “Which would be more unsettling: that he didn’t or that he did?” the author writes."
That made me shudder.
I'm not if sure Hitler drew crowds in, or enforced them, maybe a bit of both. Either way, it's not a good boast for an ex-president of the USA currenlty facing multiple fraud charges amongst other things.
I'm faily confident Merkel thought of Trump much the same as any half intelligent person would...'what a total knober'.
I don't actually think any European leaders ever gave him any credit..it was just a case of lip service for diplomacy.
Anyone got any takes on yesterday's results?
Anyone got any takes on yesterday’s results?
Swing voters are key to winning elections. Policies that your base demands but that alienate swing voters will lose elections.
Swing voters are key to winning elections. Policies that your base demands but that alienate swing voters will lose elections.
Let's hope so...(applies both sides of the Atlantic)
I know how wrong it is, I know she is ugly inside. I know I should be ashamed. But I can't help it, I find Ivanka quite hot.
On a less disgusting note, I would seriously put money down on Trump being president in 12 months time.