[Closed] Doggists - why all the harnesses, and not collars?

Collars keep getting caught on the cars interior.

Really? I'm struggling to picture how but fair enough.

Doggin joke wasted on IHN!

Its a why of buying your way out of a problem rather making some effprt to train pooch

[i]Doggin joke wasted on IHN![/i]

Curses! 🙂

😉

[i]Its a why of buying your way out of a problem rather making some effprt to train pooch[/i]

But you're not even doing that, you're encouraging the problem. This assumes that the problem is seen as the dog pulling, not that the poor little thing is hurting itself pulling, obviously.

If you want to stop a dog pulling get a figure of 8 head collar.

Harnesses allow a dog to pull more, not less - it's why my wife uses one for canicross. If sh tries to walk him normally with it on and he starts pulling she has to sit down to have enough leverage to stop him!

I think it's partly fashion and partly the perception that a collar is 'a bad thing'.

We don't use a slip lead because our dog pulled so much he threw up every time we tried one...

Basically.... Edge-of-town retail park chain pet stores have a lot of shelf space to fill. You thought all you needed for dog ownership was a collar, a lead and a can opener.... but no theres a whole supermarket-worth of accessories. People buy things like harnesses  because they're for sale, and of course they would't be for sale unless there was a good reason for buying them. So being for sale is in itself proof that you need one.

'Pets at Home' and the like are also very good at making people think theres a food/thing thats specifically for 'dogs like yours' - breed, ages and size specific things that you need because your spaniel is between 6 and 7 years old.

Incidentally either theres a completely different species of dog now, or theres a been a really significant shift in climate over the past 10 years... but all dogs seem to need to wear coats now too.

There will be exceptions but in short it's the easy option.

We have a dog and use a slip lead on him when we go out walking - it took a lot of time and effort to stop him pulling - and still takes occasional effort as he isn't perfect yet at 2 1/2.

Using a harness makes it easier for the dog to pull which they like and makes you feel better that they aren't choking themselves - an easy option. I can't think of many occasions where I've seen a dog in a harness that is walking calmly by their owners side (old dogs excepted)

There will be the excuse of 'this breed' or 'my dog' can't be trained to walk nicely and not pull - all of which is clearly not true.

Halti harnesses actually stop or discourage pulling .The rear of chest section is designed to tighten around the chest.

A dog seeks reward for its actions . It wants the reward of getting ahead in a walk, and a strong dog will happily ignore the discomfort of a  collar against its neck or even throat if it's keen enough to get on .

The harnesses you are so scornful about are useful in early training, and are nothing to do with or related in ant way to sled or carriage harnesses. . I used one for about a month, but now it's in the bin, having done its job .

[i]If you want to stop a dog pulling [s]get a figure of 8 head collar.[/s][b]then train it[/b][/i]

surely? But yeah, anti-pulling collars are available.

[i]I think it’s partly fashion and partly the perception that a collar is ‘a bad thing’.[/i]

Agreed, and defintely the latter

[i]all dogs seem to need to wear coats now too.[/i]

Yup. Mental.

Unless of course you're referring to harnesses on handbag dogs. They're actually handles.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about using slip leads (or choke chains as they used to be called, for good reason). I'm talking about a fixed collar, with a loop for attaching a lead.

[i]Using a harness makes it easier for the dog to pull which they like [/i]

Good for them. What they like/want isn't the point though, they should be trained to how they should behave.

[i]A dog seeks reward for its actions[/i]

Agreed, and they can be trained, through reward, to walk to heel (or at least not pull)

[i]I can’t think of many occasions where I’ve seen a dog in a harness that is walking calmly by their owners side[/i]

And that's bad, right?

If you have a dog that pulls a lot (despite training, some still do you know. (I know I know, it's really hard to imagine, but please, for the sake of argument just imagine that this is the case)) - collars are around their [i]neck[/i] - harnesses are around the chest and body. Not sure if I need to explain why the body is better for the dog, but I've heard dogs cough and choke when they've pulled on their collar attached lead. Dumb idiots still dont get the message eh? Anyone would think they're not that bright.

That said, my dog had a harness because it was easier when taking them on the bike. And she's stuck with it, (I think the ex-wife finds it easier than a collar, but I haven't really asked.)

My young pup has a harness for the car. In a crash she won’t be decapitated by a collar.

My dog will wear a harness at different times.

If I'm taking him out into the countryside where sheep and deer are prevalent I will put his harness on and keep him on the lead. I feel the harness gives me more security to deal with his urge to chase deer or his interest in the sheep. Also over rough ground it means that if I trip its not going to pull on his neck.

I like the 'clip on' points of the harness, the main one is on top of the dogs back and therefore the lead doesn't get caught up around his legs (I tend to use a longer lead when out in the countryside with him especially if I know there could be distractions). Anyone that uses a choke chain to train a dog shouldn't own a dog IMO.

And he looks well 'ard in his bad boy harness....obvs!

Fair enough, I'm not going to be that internet d1ck that says "every dog can be trained to walk perfectly to heel and never pull" and there will cases where where harness use is appropriate to prevent harm to the dog. Thing is that those should be the exceptional cases, but it seems more that harness use is becoming the norm in lieu of actually training the thing.

And there are definitely times when a harness is more useful (like when riding with a dog or strapping it into a car, I used to do the same).

Mate of mine uses harnesses when walking their cats.

I like the ‘clip on’ points of the harness

Yes, there is this - one of the reasons I liked the harness for on the bike - I could just reach down and unclip the lead, or clip it back on without slowing or dismounting - with a collar it tends to slip round their neck, makes it a bit more fiddly.

[i]. I feel the harness gives me more security to deal with his urge to chase deer or his interest in the sheep.[/i]

Why more secure than a collar? (Genuine Q)

People buy things like harnesses  because they’re for sale

Life, being as clever as you, must be such a breeze.

We have a Ruffwear harness with panniers and a big handle on the back that we used to use when he was fitter & could do big mountain walks. He could carry his own water, bowl, towel etc & the handle was useful for helping him with stiles which he never seemed to grasp the concept of!
The other one was bought on our dog walker’s advice to help stop him pulling and contrary to many of your opinions it works. (It’s a Halti one)
This is because the attachment point for the lead is low on the chest so if he pulls he just pivots around it.
After a few times he just stopped pulling completely.
Collars don’t stop pulling in my opinion. The dog pulls and starts to choke itself. Doesn’t understand why it’s choking (as dogs are pretty thick when it comes to the whole ‘cause & effect’ thing) so it pulls harder to get wary from the thing that is choking it.
I can understand the whole ‘feeling of security’ thing too; the beagle we had when I was growing up could slip a collar so quickly you wouldn’t believe it.

Collars hurt/injure dogs.

For smaller breeds a collar can be very bad for throat and tracheal issues.  I have never used collars and never.  My dogs don't pull though and even if they did I may not notice as they weigh 1.7kg each.

Dogs with collars can pull, dogs with harnesses can pull, both can be trained to not pull Ok some will pull no matter what. Sled dogs have a huge urge to pull and are trained to pull when on a harness that’s why they pull not because of the harness.

My dogs don’t pull though and even if they did I may not notice as they weigh 1.7kg each.

That’s rat.

Some of the harnesses double up as a means to secure the dog in the car.

I have a Julius K9 harness on my lab as well as his collar.

The main reason for my Dog having his harness is he is a rescue and despite constant training, he still pulls towards certain people and certain Dogs.

Having the harness means I can hold the handle on it to control him.

I think people (including myself) have explained all this pretty well. Are you getting a better comprehension now IHN? Or are you in the people buy them cos they can corner?

We had a dog with a iffy shoulder after use on collar. Vet says harness will help spread the load, never looked back.

I'd imagine it's a similar reason we don't use a neck collar to secure yourself when rock climbing.

Just to go slightly OT for a second, my mum's Siamese cat used to follow her on her daily walks round the local loch requiring her to pick it up and carry it home.  Eventually she bought a carrying harness thing which strapped the cat to her body.  We all laughed so hard, and so long, that she never used it.  Sorry mum.

I've never used a harness - I was lucky enough to have a few months at home with our rescue when we first got him at six months old, so was able to devote (many!) hours to training him.  I do appreciate this was a luxury which most folk don't have.

The only slight concern I have is letting a dog run free with a harness - if needs be, our mutt can reverse out of his collar, say if he gets stuck on a branch or is led away by a ne'er-do-well.  He's lost a few collars this way but I'd rather that than have him stuck somewhere.

[i]Collars hurt/injure dogs.[/i]

Really? All collars? All dogs?

[i]Are you getting a better comprehension now IHN? Or are you in the people buy them cos they can corner?[/i]

I'm in the "there are clearly situations where a harness is appropriate, but they seem to be the default choice to stop dogs hurting themselves when they pull rather than training them not to pull in the first place" corner.

The only slight concern I have is letting a dog run free with a harness

Not a problem. Except when they jump in water. Makes it all wet and horrible that does. (found a pic!*)

There's a gate on my walk, dog is too impatient to wait the few seconds for me to open the gate, so she squeezes under the metal fence. Sometimes she doesn't get the limbo right and the harness catches on the fence, she's pretty stupid, but not stupid enough to keep going. Does a little reverse, limbos a few mm lower and she's through. She's a pointer, so always venturing into undergrowth and the harness hasn't been an issue at all.

*

I’m in the “there are clearly situations where a harness is appropriate, but they seem to be the default choice to stop dogs hurting themselves when they pull rather than training them not to pull in the first place” corner.

Not really no.

Not really no.

I completely agree.

<em class="bbcode-em">Quote "INH

<em class="bbcode-em">. I feel the harness gives me more security to deal with his urge to chase deer or his interest in the sheep.

Why more secure than a collar? (Genuine Q)"

The harness fits the dog very well. It has lots of contact points around the dogs body, rather than one just around the neck. If his attention is distracted then I can pull the lead up and guide the dog to where I want him to go. There is no tug of war or shaking of the head to try to release a neck lead, so maybe the dog feels happier or more secure with the harness in some instances. The harness also has a loop on the chest so I can double harness the dog for extra security if I feel I need to.

When at home I generally walk him on a neck lead and have little issue with it. Apart from one local dog that isn't well managed. This dog (well, the owner really!) causes my dog lot of stress and the collar lead makes it harder to get my dog away. The other dog has attacked us twice recently with the owner refusing to put it on a lead, my dog is big and very strong and now gets very defensive when this other dog appears. I might start putting his harness on for local walks if this issue continues.

Just for the record though, my dog is kept on the lead around the local parks and streets but is off lead in the woods or common.

My lab wears a normal collar. He pulls when we walk him because he's trained to pull me along on the bike, which he does just great! We use a halti head collar when we walk him on the road, he's off the lead in the park

I've been meaning to get him a proper harness for walking in the hills, when I might need to lift him up something. I had to push him up a section on devils kitchen heading up to glyder fawr, he found his way up everything else but one section required opposing thumbs

I've not found the right harness than I can lift him with safely, most are for walking. The ruffwear ones are pricey! Plus, he's 35kg of muscle, he's not an easy 1 handed lift - that's like two suitcases!

BenP, we don’t use our Ruffwear one anymore. If you want it you can have it.
Was used on a 28kg Lab x Springer.
I used it with a short length of lsk rope to belay him down some bits on Tryfan, down to the lower terrace of Dancibg Ledge, that sort of thing.
[img] ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=1518d80378c083af53b81eeaa13fee82&oe=5B1BEA53[/img]

I use a harness on my dog as I want his head and throat unimpeded when I'm getting him to bite people.

Hi mattbee, 

What size is that harness/pack? We are looking for a Small one (22-27") round ribs as our cocker is 23". It's prob too big though.

I use a harness to make my dog sad

Harness and coat wearing dog here, what do we win?

He is a whippet though, so the coat for his skinny little bits to keep warm (he shivers in a stiff breeze sometimes) and the harness when we're out in the woods or on the common, to give us extra control on the longer lead (also proved useful walking up Snowdon and in the lakes).

when we're just walking around town then he has a wide leather collar just to protect his neck, using a normal lead.

he doesn't pull using either method, he's quite civilised really!

Most disappointing thread title of the month. ..

Interesting thread, as I have only just got back in from town and an extended visit to the pet shop.

Here's my dilemma:

Bramble, our 14wk Briard pup can really, really pull, hard enough for Mrs. B to struggle to hold her back and definitely enough to cause problems for the in-laws who occasionally dog sit for us..

Certainly hard enough be be doing herself damage. Aside from damaging her windpipe, large breeds have to go gently for the first year as their bones and joints haven't fully formed, which can cause hip dysplasia in later life.

Training wise, she's at early stages of puppy training, but it takes time to get them reliably walking 'at heel' and I need a temporary solution now.

Full harness - too big and bulky with no disincentive to pull, as has been mentioned.

Halty type face harness - that wasn't going to happen, she immediately hated it, although solved the pulling by causing her to lie on the floor clawing at her face.

Slip lead - just 'no', and specifically forbidden by our dog trainer.

Figure of 8, was kind of okay, but the same problem with the lying down and clawing.

We settled for a lead that has an extra steel loop at the clip loop, so you clip it on their collar, wrap the lead around the dog's chest behind the front legs and then back through the steel loop. Basically an extra slip-lead loop, that tightens around their chest, rather than throat. Sorry I don't know the technical name for that design.

As a stop-gap to stop her pulling towards people and children around town it seems fine, but ultimately it's going to have to come down to training, especially with such a large breed.

Re lifting dogs up and over stuff, most working dogs are used to being scruffed. I have to lift mine down out of the tailgate as she has a dodgy elbow. Nature provided two handles in a Labrador, one on top of the neck, shoulders, and the other over the loins. When she’s working she sometimes needs lifting over fences (I don’t train them to jump fences cos of barbed wire) and she is perfectly happy being lifted two-handed by the scruffs. Also useful for getting her out of water with a steep banking. No collar, ever.

Figure of 8, was kind of okay, but the same problem with the lying down and clawing.

Our Vizsla did this when we first tried it. He got used to it pretty quickly with the use of lots of praise and treats. Effect on his pulling was immediate and profound. It was very useful as a trainign aid to get him walking to heel - we don't use it any more as he's much less 'pully', we don't insist he walks to heel, he can sniff stuff etc but my wife can manage him as he is now.

Nice one, wwaswas . I figure leads are fairly cheap, so don't mind trying a couple of options until getting the right thing. 'In the pet shop' is never the ideal place to try out the options - too many stinky treat type distractions! I personally liked the simplicity of the figure of 8, so might give it another try.

We got one of these https://snugglepets.co.uk/product/figure-eight-head-collars/

1) it's fleecey and chafed less than just a webbing one.

2) mrswwaswas could choose the colour of the webbing and fleece...

We use a harness for safety in the car, clip her on to the harness and into the seat belt clip.
1) Its the law they have to be restrained.
2) Hard braking or a crash she is restrained by the harness and it minimizes hurt/damage. I hate to think what would happen with a collar.

Hedley, it’s a M I’m afraid.

My dog wears a harness mainly because he's quite stocky and the collar can slip over his head due to his thick neck

He doesn't pull, that said he's got a strong prey drive and is sometimes reactive around other dogs (esp on the lead), so there's a high chance he would lurch and potentially hurt himself

For both reasons I will always use a harness, and a collar too with his tag on it

It's also proved handy for grabbing if he gets into trouble...

@benp

look for a Julius K9 IDC Harness, my lab is 32 kgs and I can lift him over fences etc with that harness.

The Police and Security officers use them on their Dogs.

@simmy

Just bought a Julius K9 and a shock absorbing lead - superb, both Bramble, Mrs B and I immediately got on well with it. Totally brilliant recommendation, thank you.