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OP, you are describing my life. If you find the answer please let me know.
she can’t do the activities she REALLY wants to do, and resents me for being able to do mine
I dunno what it is that she can't do, but it sounds sporty if injury has stopped it. Could she maybe get into coaching, reffing or something ? (obviously you can't suggest that but maybe someone else who knows her could)
Best of luck with it; I see quite a lot of "that sort of shit" in my marriage though it manifests a bit differently. Afraid I largely ignore it currently.
As old as the hills.
Many a man has succumbed to constantly keeping the peace in a never ending hostage negotiation, appeasing their partners escalating whims no matter how unreasonable, childish and selfish. Often ends in affairs/divorce or some kind of breakdown when keeping up the façade becomes untenable.
You often see it repeated when a new partner/next victim comes a long (some actively seek out partners who will put up with it) and you feel a bit sorry for them, as they're made to dance like a puppet.
Unfortunately you will have to have it out with her, discussing the causes and feelings involved, or it will carry on, with the goal posts constantly on the move. There needs to be some lateral movement on both sides! An understanding both of you have certain things, that make you what you are as individuals and there is no malice in the resultant actions that piss the other off. Setting out ways you can both tolerate doing the things you need to do to live a relatively happy life, including things you do together and separately to maintain/improve your relationship.
Not an easy discussion to have if the person is defensive, uses diversion and gets aggressive! The all too common retorts when difficult truths have to be dealt with.
Are you both happy with your sex life?
I've found that is the bedrock/keystone of a relationship. Without a good sex life frustration and resentment builds. And it is also a good barometer of how your relationship is. Sex life was good, but now not? Suggests a problem.
YGH
(divorced)
Hora? Is that you?
I pretty much agree with what lunge and martinhutch said on page 1 so I won’t repeat that.
However, my jaw dropped at several ridiculous comments that women are generally selfish and waste their time sitting on the sofa staring at their phones while watching junk on tv, and would prefer to scoff ice cream instead of solving their problems. You didn’t choose your partners very well! Mr Pea and I go biking together and if we didn’t, I’d be out there anyway, not watching tv!
This is markoulinis wife. This sounds similar to our situation (although perhaps not to the same degree). In my case feelings of frustration towards my OH usually are just projections of feelings of frustration about myself. I am feeling frustrated, angry with myself and my situation and this comes out badly to the ones closest to me. Offers of 'quick fixes/solutions' to my problem, like find a new hobby, also infuriate me because they usually mean 'your attitude causes ME a problem. You need to get a grip asap because I am affected by this negativity and I don't like it'. In other words, it's as if you're saying 'it's all about ME!'
Instead of offering 'solutions', which she is already aware of herself, my advice would be to preoccupy yourself with understanding why she feels angry/frustrated/ worried. Have many discussions and really listen to her. But not just that, because don't expect that you will ask once and she will just be happy and willing to spill her most inner and scary thoughts. Really<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> try to understand what's troubling her. Sometimes even vocalising your worries can be a scary thought because you are also trying to hide them from your own self. So talking about them to someone else is difficult. If and when she will talk to you, just listen and try to empathise and understand. Don't jump into trying to solve her problems! (See previous point). </span>
Sorry for the essay and i hope this helps
I think what you are describing are symptoms not causes. something else is the cause.
Mrs TJ and I do not argue often these days - 38 years together and disgustingly happy most of the time. We have a real partnership of equals and have explicitly discussed issues that annoy the other and found solutions to these issues even if they are only armed truces! sometimes you just have to accept some things "just are" and learn to live with them. For example - MrsTJ would always save for a rainy day, I would always blow my money on fripperies and live on potato soup the rest of the month. We compromise somewhere in the middle and don't let the others attitude annoy us.
When we do have rows it does tend to be pretty explosive to the point we did seek professional help good few years ago
for me this is one =for couples counselling if you cannot discuss the issues
vickypea / markoulini I agree with.
Tj- have you got a recipe for potato soup 😉
From reading your posts here DrP I have to say that it sounds like you're describing my marriage in many respects but without the kids or the winning bike races.
We went through similar problems for a couple if years or so and tried anything I could to sort them out but to no avail. I pretty much stopped racing the bike, would only ride on weekdays when I was off work (shift worker) so we could have weekends together, tried getting her more involved with my hobbies or trying to help her find some if her own but nothing helped. We tried counselling but in all honesty it was a waste of time.
The toughest decision I ever had to make was the choice between me spending even more time and effort trying to fix things or walking away. I realised that walking away was the best option so that the problems didn't end up ruining my life as well as hers.
The funny thing was that we never actually argued as such, we'd have some disagreements now and again but never anything major.
I hope you manage to get things sorted out DrP as it's a horrible situation to be in.
A quick match the answers quiz
A. Perpetually unhappy with moments of happiness
B. Perpetually happy with moments of unhappiness
1. Husband
2. Wife
Match A and B with 1 and 2.
Sweeping generalisation of course.....
Three pages in and no mention of a new patio.....
😀
I'm going through much the same here, 3 children, worked my socks off to build a business that will give us a better standard of living than working full-time as a teacher (and allow me to spend more time at home). A year and a half in to part-time (and running the other business together) and things are still spiralling out of control. Families on both sides are supportive yet frustrated (esp. on her side - perhaps due to us living on their property) that it won't just work as we should 'have everything', beautiful house, children, great lifestyle. Nothing it seems will make her happy (for long).
The issue with me is that of unpredictability and wild mood swings that can last for days/weeks. I'm currently living in a flat on the farm rather than in the family home as I've been thrown out for suggesting that I could wash up a cup if I used a clean one to make myself a cuppa (after complimenting the meal she'd prepared and offering her a cup and that I would wash-up - including my mug(!). One minute things are OK, another and it's demanding I get out, stop threatening her, accusing me of making it all up. My current response is to say I don't want to argue - I've tried reasoning but it is a complete waste of time (she'll say I talk to much, use long words (she's the English graduate!), and am boring - maybe...)
I've got some tough times ahead it seems and big life-changing decisions to make. We are seeing a counsellor (had a couple of months worth over the last 6 months), I hang in there for the children, get out on the bike/climbing and think 'it can't be all that bad, suck it up, be there for the young 'uns (she's often in bed when they go at 7pm and doesn't surface until 9am (even if I'm out on the farm/work and the children have been up since 6:30am). She spends hours and hours on her phone yet criticises me for using mine even when it's linked to our business.
The worst thing is that it's her parent's farm and although they've supported me over the last few years, she's found that telling them I'm a liar, I'm aggressive/threatening is extremely challenging and I do understand how tough it must be for them, they value what I've done but I don't know how far it can be pushed.
We've tried getting her to see the family Dr (who I've seen when I went to him after several anxiety/panic attacks when she threatened to tell police I'd beaten her and stop me seeing the children (never happened) - which could/would also loose me my teaching job).
I'm pretty sure I know what the consensus would be on this, I'm almost there myself, but I wanted to add my story, you're not alone in your frustration and suffering!
Moving in to the flat has actually lifted a huge weight from my shoulders, it's an incredible sensation and I suspect that unless you've been there it sounds like a load of twaddle.
Will the children be happier without the atmosphere in the house? I suspect so. Will I see them a lot? I'd want 50/50 (despite her ideas on the matter). Will they do great things with me that I can't do when she's dictating what we can/can't do? Certainly (my sister's wedding being a prime and extremely upsetting example of something she's ruined for me). Is it still hard to work out what to do? No doubt the biggest decision I'll ever make.
There's parts of the OP's scenario that I can relate to, in that I regularly have to overcome my own feeling of guilt for going out on my bikes, when my better half is extremely not confident riding on the roads and has done very little outdoors for years. But the last ~15 months of fitness cycling have given me back a bit of a spark, I used to very sporty, but my lower back injury in 2008 knocked what little sport/exercise I still had left on the head. When I can't go out riding due to illness or carp weather, it affects my mood rather negatively, but then at times I go a bit OTT with training and feel a bit of "over-training irritability" come on!
Has MrsP been down the route of sports physio-esque sessions, with a professional that can advise her on what she can do to help combat the ligament issue and what exercise she could do?
Being self-employed seems to make it very tricky for many people to switch off from work, compared to most of us that work for others, which will inevitably eat into their "free time." It can make their life be ruled by their company, if they aren't careful, which will naturally make it easy for them to be resentful of others who can do their "9-5" and then step away from their work hat.
I suspect a lot of us here are envious of how you can be a successful racer with just one night's training a week... You sound like you are wasting a true gift! If you haven't already, you should get yourself a quality turbo trainer and use it frequently to train harder and race on Zwift or something similar.
Having young children was very stressfull time for us.
Stopped riding for a few years.
It gets better when they get older. And as someone said above a good Sex life is very important.
race on Zwift or something
Steady on, it sounds like he;s suffered enough.
I’m pretty sure I know what the consensus would be on this, I’m almost there myself
Blimey, we're all way ahead of you - but it's always easier to leave someone else's relationship, eh?
Yup, I've found writing it all down to be very useful in looking at it objectively. Pages and pages of the stuff, just spent an hour looking through old photos and most of the events that ought to be the happiest moments of our lives are tainted with the memory of some ridiculous bust-up that occurred in the weeks before/after due to some silly nonsense that could have been resolved with a "yeah, sorry about that". Never happens though.
This is markoulinis wife. This sounds similar to our situation (although perhaps not to the same degree). In my case feelings of frustration towards my OH usually are just projections of feelings of frustration about myself. I am feeling frustrated, angry with myself and my situation and this comes out badly to the ones closest to me. Offers of ‘quick fixes/solutions’ to my problem, like find a new hobby, also infuriate me because they usually mean ‘your attitude causes ME a problem. You need to get a grip asap because I am affected by this negativity and I don’t like it’. In other words, it’s as if you’re saying ‘it’s all about ME!’
Instead of offering ‘solutions’, which she is already aware of herself, my advice would be to preoccupy yourself with understanding why she feels angry/frustrated/ worried. Have many discussions and really listen to her. But not just that, because don’t expect that you will ask once and she will just be happy and willing to spill her most inner and scary thoughts. Really try to understand what’s troubling her. Sometimes even vocalising your worries can be a scary thought because you are also trying to hide them from your own self. So talking about them to someone else is difficult. If and when she will talk to you, just listen and try to empathise and understand. Don’t jump into trying to solve her problems! (See previous point).
Sorry for the essay and i hope this helps
Very honest and useful post, thanks for sharing.
I'm not sure I've ever been the most communicative person in a relationship and my first wife wasn't either.....a fatal combination when you're not getting on! My second wife has taught me that we have to talk occasionally and the results are there to see. So Mrs M's post above is useful.
Just a wee point hat occurred to me DrP posts all sound like a bit "me" and "her" - very adversarial rather that "we" and "us"
You need to take the blame out of it. This is a situation you (plural) are in - a solution needs to be found for both of you. Its not about blaming anyone or one of yo having to change. Its about what you (plural) can do to change / improve the situation. Its about co operation and finding solutions for both of you not one of yo9u having to do this and the other having to do the other
Look for solutions in a non judgemental / no blame way and do this co operatively ie "we are both unhappy, how can we be both happier?" make the target that you both are going to be happier, take the steps needed to get there both of you together. Break it down into tiny steps
DrP: I started to write a long reply, but really, everyones situation and relationship is so different it just read like bollocks. Your situation resonates though.
Only wee things I will say:
1) Sounds shit, frustrating and upsetting - I wish you all the best
2) Marriage/partnership is hard takes effort
3) as a few have mentioned, my wife has never really looking for 'solutions', and i stopped doing anything even remotely like 'coaching' many years ago (like your don't be GP'y). she often just wants to chat.
Does sound like the symptoms are not necessarily the same as the cause. All the best, stick in there!
>Look for solutions in a non judgemental / no blame way and do this co operatively
Generally much easier with an independent 3rd party eg a couples counsellor...
Threads like this reinforce just how happy I am that I never got married.
, "I would always blow my money on fripperies"
I have an image of a room full of top end helmets , all new and unopened 😀
Again all.. just reading through replies etc is helping.
I realise there are factions of my behaviour that cause unhappiness (similar to the tea mug incident above, and likely bigger ones too), but it’s the elements of ‘deeper unhappiness’ that I feel I am neither allowed to help with, nor be able to point out they might be able to be helped.
Has MrsP been down the route of sports physio-esque sessions, with a professional that can advise her on what she can do to help combat the ligament issue and what exercise she could do?
Yeah, she’s been seeing a sports PT, and getting remedial massages too.
The ‘being self employed’ thing resonates too. Yeah, MY work life is busy...when I’m there. But I’m able to ‘turn off’ and actually ‘finish work’ for the day.
I completely get that having a phone in your hand, that’s contactable 24/7, can be very draining. However, any suggestions of assistance/coaching/business lessons are, again, met with the “Stop trying to solve this” face....
RE the turbo trainer/Zwift comment... as has been said...I don’t want any more pain in my life... 😉
DrP
There's a lot of honesty on this thread which is useful for everyone reading it I think.
My experience is that marriage takes a lot of work, you have to learn to bite your tongue and that often what you;re arguing about is not what you're *really* arguing about - it's just that the current discussion is a convenient safety valve for what the underlying issues are. Addressing those underlying issues can be almost impossible for those in the relationship as they're both either the cause of or too close to them.
Threads like this reinforce just how happy I am that I never got married.
Lol 🙂
For example; I’m actually pretty good on teh bike – winning races etc etc. Rather than being met with “oh well done, I’m so proud” it genuinely feels that I’m resented for having a hobby, and doing well at it…
I’ve a constant feeling of guilt whenever I take time ‘for myself’ – such as going for a ride, or ‘fettling in the garage’. She paints a picture I’m there all teh time (which isn’t true) – it jsut feels like the times we spend as a family are immediately forgotton as soon as I go out and do something fun for myself..
welcome to my life 🙁 I do most of the child care and housework, all of the cooking and work between 4-8am but still get moaned at when I want to go on my bike.
Clearly there is some underlying issue here about her not being able to do “stuff” and you doing lots of it.
I think this is fundamentally wrong, at least the first bit. Like many (most?) on here I am a blokey sort of bloke who has a number of hobbies. Hobbies are a man thing. If a female partner is not happy with her male partner spending one evening a week at his hobby, interest, pastime or whatever he chooses to call it, the answer is rarely for her to find a hobby herself, or to find more time for her interests. There is an underlying dissatisfaction with the relationship. I speak from experience. The answer is rarely ever to buy her a bike not quite as good as yours. In the early "honeymoon" period of a relationship chicks will go along with this just to see more of her man, but it wears off. The problem is elsewhere.
Just a thought that I have had to try and put in place recently was based on what tjagain said: try and do the use/we and not you/me. Anything that looks to you like a suggestion can be flipped and looks like an order. Very much along the lines of: "Why are you so stupid you can just do this....". What I now do is be interested in the situation and ask to have a conversation where you listen and they make suggestions. You also have to be able to change and challenge your own behaviours for something to change. Obviously if you keep doing something the same way it will not change.
The best example I have got is that I mentor somebody who has a significantly different way of looking at things than me. Whenever I say something I always go back and check what I have said from their point of view and see if I could have done it differently/better. They also have that challenge for me and I have found that it has massively improved our relationship, but it also means I look at all communication like this. Self knowledge does not come from within you need to get and respect people's view of you. Sounds like you are having a pretty rough time but still some good stuff there.
Threads like this reinforce just how happy I am that I never got married.
Theads like this reinforce how happy I am to be happily married.
Really interesting and honest thread this. My sympathies to those in challenging situations, I’ve been there too. I can only really offer my experience as an example (perhaps not typical) of what happens if you leave...
My ex-wife and I were married for 14 years. Good careers, house owners, 2 kids etc etc. Our sex life was rubbish and had been since the kids arrived. This was apparently my fault and I spent many years apologising, feeling guilty and making an effort to put things right by taking on the majority of childcare, housework, sacrificing my interests to allow her to pursue her own. It reached a point where I became incredibly resentful of her and her attitude towards me. She got pissed one night and decided that we should split up. Much to her surprise I agreed and moved out 4 days later.
I have never been happier than I am now. 😀
The kids were devastated to begin with but they are fine now. I’ve got them 50 percent of the week and things have worked out pretty well with regards to access and whathaveyou
I’m renting a tiny house that’s all mine - if I want to watch football in my pants after work then I can. And I do.
I’m no longer responsible for someone else’s happiness. Or blamed for their inability to confront their own issues.
I can indulge my interests when I want and this is hugely important. My girlfriend is totally cool about me doing what I want when I want. She does the same. I will never, ever, EVER give up interests for someone else ever again. I’m completely capable of being a first rate father and boyfriend as long as I can do the things that make me happy. Stop me doing those things and I stop being myself. Never again will I let that happen. Perhaps it’s being selfish I don’t know, but what’s ****ing point in any of this if you can’t be happy?
Agree with above. Riding my bike makes me happy, and that translates into being happy at home.
My wife understands it too, and on the other hand, I also understand when she wants to do the things which make her happy.
It nearly always work for us.
If someone is unhappy they owe it to themselves to ovary/nut up and confront why this is so. Especially so if they're an adult.
Unfortunately, you can't force someone to "adult". OP seems to be able to find happiness in what he does. If his OH can't then that's a hard problem to have. I feel his pain. You want to help, but the other person needs to want your help too OP 🙁
How's her state of mind?
Perhaps she needs to see a doctor.
Nothing to add to your situation other than I hope you can sort it out.
Regarding the original question , I find myself in the lucky situation to be in a relationship/married to quite possibly the most laid back woman in the world and as such I can count the number of arguments we've had in the last 30 years on one hand.
We had 15 years of us time before kids arrived on the scene , she loves cycling almost as much as me , we have very similar music tastes and although we aren't exactly flush due to only having one wage coming in are happy with our lot in life. I think the fact we were just good mates for 18 months before getting together (everyone else thought something was going on but it wasn't)has really helped the way we are with each other.
but it’s the elements of ‘deeper unhappiness’ that I feel I am neither allowed to help with, nor be able to point out they might be able to be helped.
I'm no fan of stupid self help books or society's imposed norms for "men" and "women" but I've tested a logic (which I think comes from Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) with a number of women and it seems to hold true in many cases. Women who share a problem with you aren't always (or even usually) looking for a solution to the problem, they are just venting/sharing the problem. If every-time she tells you something you attempt to help/fix it you actually make it less likely she will see you as a source of solutions when she needs them.
I'm not sure if (or perhaps more importantly she thinks) you are suggesting there might actually be some depression involved here. If you are then I can clearly see why she thinks you are being all GPy. Even if she has a medical problem, she's looking for a husband not a clinician. Every medical problem does not need to be solved, and certainly not right now. That might sound odd, especially to someone who has trained to fix people's problems, but if she wants to be treated (for either the ligaments or any psychological/MH issue) she will go to her doc or specifically ask for your advice. Whilst you continue to nag her to fix the issue it has as much chance of success as any other nagging.
If the latter, why are you both together? Do the pros outweigh the cons?
I think this..frequently..
Are you sure its her that has the problem?
In the same position as most on here, I have responsibility for two kids still at university so I keep the "famiy" home going.
I have delivered for my family at all levels not just financial and my other half has been a fantastic mum to them but the long and short is she simply hates my guts and it's obvious to just about anyone who comes into contact with us.
She can do anything she wants job wise, education etc but prefers to whine at me and complain how shit her life is without doing anything about it. I pity her and i am so pleased that i dont have her miserable approach to everything. She is gradually alienating herself from all four of our kids and justifies this by being "right"
I have also just watched a friend of mines wife walk out after 30 years, he left his wife and 4 kids to be with her 30 years ago and has never seen them again. He built a multi million business and worshipped the ground she walked on. She said she no longer wanted to live with him but she still loved him.
You can do everything right and still be wrong.
As above, just try and talk and listen to her rather than 'fix'<i> </i>her. Also, make sure that you are doing your fair share of cooking, cleaning and child care.
It might sound daft but it can easily piss people off if you're seen to be making time for yourself but not doing any of the chores around the house, or spending any time with partner/ kids. If she isn't able to do her usual hobbies then I imagine she's feeling more frustrated than normal as well, I know I would be at least.
Im on to my 2nd wife, so perhaps I’m biased.
when i was with my first wife, (for 12 years in total) she didn’t generally want to do anything that i did, she would try things, at first, but as the years dragged on the enthusiasm waned until eventually, she had an affair. She had previously made many accusations about me having affairs (none of which were true)
any friends had to be people that she liked.
any ideas could only be good if she came up with them.
any decisions, about every single thing we ever did, in every aspect of life, were her decisions.
so when i found out about the affair, it was actually a relief.
we argued constantly, about trivial crap, she would argue with people who were agreeing with her.
My kids tell me that it has been the same with all of the several boyfriends who have lived with her since she got rid of me.
so, my advice would be, you can’t fix everyone, some people just don’t want it.
I will just add, ive been with the 2nd mrs martymac for 14 years and we have barely had a cross word said in that time.
perhaps she needs some space, perhaps she needs you to make sure she’s having a good time in bed, or perhaps it would be better for all concerned if you split up, but only you guys can decide.
Best wishes, marty.
I’m no fan of stupid self help books or society’s imposed norms for “men” and “women” but I’ve tested a logic (which I think comes from Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) with a number of women and it seems to hold true in many cases. Women who share a problem with you aren’t always (or even usually) looking for a solution to the problem, they are just venting/sharing the problem. If every-time she tells you something you attempt to help/fix it you actually make it less likely she will see you as a source of solutions when she needs them.
Wise words and I concur with all of that. I've no time for cod philosophy but the fixing vs sympathising thing is certainly true in many cases IM(limited)E.
Also, make sure that you are doing your fair share of cooking, cleaning and child care.
Pro tip: the correct answer to this is not "all of it." You take on all the burden and, well, it's a burden, and the net result is you smother someone.
I've been reading this thread with interest. I've got 2 kids (5 and 2), and things can get a bit challenging at times.
To begin with I guess I didn't properly click with my kids until they each started doing stuff at about a year old. So for a year I had a toxic combination of a blob that sucked time to do other stuff and made my wife totally stressed. I had a feeling that would change though, and it did thankfully.
It's really easy to start looking at your partner, seeing them doing stuff themselves and resenting it, or point counting, or something like that. My wife probably goes out more than I do, however she does the nursery run which means I get to bike commute (which means we save money only running one car etc).
As one person picked up on earlier, it's we and us, rather than me and her. It's taken me a few years to come round to this way of thinking and I constantly self analyse/critique. So rather than expecting 50/50 all the time I'm happy to let her go out a few nights on the trot, as long as I could maybe escape every now and again for a days mountain biking.
I guess you have 3 things you are trying to do if you are normal: work, family and race. Pick 2 ( otherwise you'll neglect one of those in some way I imagine). Training to race seriously is a massive time sink (15 hours per week?) and I get the fact you might enjoy standing on a podium, but really in the grand scheme of things what's the point? Surely your kids are more important and a better measure of success than beating some people in an xc race? (If you are pro and it is your job then fair doos you can probably fit it all in then)
Our relationship definitely isn't perfect, we argue occasionally, never anything big or fundamental though. Our sex life is like totally non existent at the moment but hopefully that'll iron itself out over time. Loving the kids now so glad we had them!
I get the fact you might enjoy standing on a podium, but really in the grand scheme of things what’s the point?
Doing something you enjoy for the sake of your own mental health and feeling of self-worth? It's not about "success," it's about taking time out to do something you enjoy. If your only focus is "everyone else" you're eventually going to crash and burn and then be of no use to anyone.
I'd respectfully disagree with "pick any two." Work is important, family is important, self-care is important. You don't have to reject one, you need to work out how to balance all three.
Some really frank exchanges and real advice here. If only there was more of this in less anonymous circles, beyond where it reaches crisis level and is obvious. BTW me and Mrs CP worked most of our shit out years ago and don't argue often, but when we do it goes full nuclear fast and has been embarrassingly public at times!
It's a shame people aren't more honest about how difficult family life and relationships can be (even within families) particularly when communicating it to children. The poisonous keeping up appearances culture, further fuelled by social media and imported American work and perfectionism culture, where "losers" are tarred and feathered for everyone to laugh at. People are expected to run their families like military preparatory schools, with precision, never ending flexibility verging on clairvoyance.
It's far from easy and the idea you should be working seven days a week, when not doing in the gym! All the time looking perfect and giving off an air of having everything screwed down tight in your life, not making a single wrong move, is dangerous IMO. It's no wonder so many people are unhappy both at home and at work, need shrinks and self help. The standards and expectations are ****ed up beyond belief.
The smoke and mirrors people engage in just perpetuates the vicious circle, although it is understandable when some seem to revel in others perceived failure 🙁
A philosophy professor stood before his class and had some items in front of him.
He picked up a large jar and began to fill it with rocks about five centimetres in diameter. He then asked the students if the jar was full? They agreed that it was.
The professor picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly, causing the pebbles to roll into the areas between the rocks. Again, he asked the students if the jar was full. Again, they agreed it was.
The professor picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. The sand filled all the gaps.
“Now,” said the professor, “I want you to recognise that this is your life. The rocks are the important things — your family, your partner, your health, your children — things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full.
“The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, your car.
“The sand is everything else, the small stuff. If you put the sand into the jar first, there is no room for the pebbles or the rocks.
“The same goes for your life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out to a show. There will always be time to go to work, clean the house or give a dinner party. Take care of the rocks first — the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.”
At that point, a student took the jar and poured in a glass of beer. The beer filled the remaining spaces, making it truly full.
The moral: no matter how full your life is, there is always room for beer.
Doing something you enjoy for the sake of your own mental health and feeling of self-worth? It’s not about “success,” it’s about taking time out to do something you enjoy. If your only focus is “everyone else” you’re eventually going to crash and burn and then be of no use to anyone.
Yeah ok I guess I was trying to speculate how his wife might be feeling about it all. I totally agree with you fwiw and I love time on the bike the same as most of you (I think I'd feel guilty about doing race training though due to the massive time commitment - I did some marathon training last year but that was a block of 3 months and not permanent)
This is the thread that keeps on giving (support).
The supporting your partner and declaring they have a problem and being too "let's fix this" is a very fine line. At various points in the last couple of years I've been stressed suffered anxiety due to various events (such as being falsely accused of beating her up). I've not always responded well and have accepted that I needed help (I saw a Dr who just said, 'you're doing as well as can be expected in your situation, talk to people, use family support, keep yourself busy and active" which was a great confidence boost, I'd begun to really doubt myself). At this time we agreed as a family (me, wife, mother-in-law and my dad), that to improve things we should both see the Dr. She found every excuse not to go and still maintains that the issue lies with me.
A friend who has been through a similar thing with her sister (and suspects she has the same issue), said "you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped".
I've always tried to support her, but everything that is done gets forgotten/ignored when it comes to the crunch and she firmly believes I don't support her. Nothing I can do or say changes that perception. I get accused of being too 'headmastery' (I'm only a lowly part-time class teacher - is it a compliment?!).
Later today we've got a counselling session, all she wants to do is sort out when I can see the children (which I'm pretty sure is not really a counsellor's remit - more like a mediator/solicitor). Fortunately her parents want me to have 50/50. But I'm staring down the barrel of a gun and stand to lose my house (it's on her family farm and I don't want to take that away from her or the children), the businesses I've started (livestock, shepherd's huts). But strangely I feel happier and more relaxed, although I'm only sleeping a few hours a night, in some strange way it's like the excitement I used to get before a big climbing trip... a new adventure around the corner... (or so I keep telling myself!)
Dr P - your story sounds very similar to how my parents were for most of my childhood. Dad was into his running and my mum resented it. As far as I remember, my dad contributed massively to the family and there was no question running was a second, but important part of his life. There was always a tension in the house as a result. It probably got worse as we got older (teenagers) and my dad started to do activities with the kids at the weekend which my mum didn't participate in.
All I was going to add, is it's worth thinking about how this is affecting the kids. I remember being aware if it and unhappy at the time and it has affected my own family life. It's almost like I still get a bit of the same feeling of guilt when I go for a ride / run instead of staying at home. I feel the need to apologise for doing things for myself, I guess because that's what was "normal" growing up. It's totally irrational because my wife couldn't be more different - she is more likely to tell me off for not going riding or ask why I came home so soon when it's a nice day and the trails are dry.
There is a happy part to this, my folks are still together and as far as I can tell happier than the used to be. As others of said, the solution is not to find a hobby for your wife but support her to address the underlying issues.
CCP: I don’t know if your last comment was partially addressed to me. I agree that relationships are hard and you have to work at them. I certainly don’t try to give the impression that my life is perfect. My previous comment related to the negative generalisations about “women” I saw on this thread. If your comment wasn’t aimed at me, then fine, ignore this!
CCP: I don’t know if your last comment was partially addressed to me. I agree that relationships are hard and you have to work at them. I certainly don’t try to give the impression that my life is perfect. My previous comment related to the negative generalisations about “women” I saw on this thread. If your comment wasn’t aimed at me, then fine, ignore this!
Could it be asking questions about your perception of yourself that you think this ?
I’m very proud of your race wins. 😊
Again all, thanks for the comments..
RE racing/winning - I enjoy racing etc, but please believe me; I’m really NOT training! I have friend who train. Properly. And I’ll agree that they are 5/6 days a week, 4 hour rides at the weekend etc. This is NOT me. I appreciate it’s a bit of a pi$$ take WHAT I achieve with how few rides I get in! ANyway, enough genetic willy waving! IT was just to highlight that I’m not on the bike/my own time 24/7....
I guess I DO want to stay together; I appreciate I AM a bit down at the moment, so my ‘doom and gloom glasses’ are on, hence seeing everything as a negative... We DO have fun, we actually have a great sex life, she’s smoking hot and I still really ‘fancy’ her..
I think one of MY issues , as has been painted above, is that I’m a ‘fixer’. It’s kind of my job. I’m handy fixing things around the house, and I guess I see reflections of MY failings if i can’t ‘fix’ something...
I think I jsut want the household to be happy - that includes kids being happy, wifey being happy, and me being happy...
In this achievable.... hopefully with us all staying together it is....
DrP
Any pics ?
I’ve already sent you loads of me... was that not enough for you 🙁
DrP
I think DrP's setting up the weirdest humblebrag ever...
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Dr P – your story sounds very similar to how my parents were for most of my childhood. Dad was into his running and my mum resented it. As far as I remember, my dad contributed massively to the family and there was no question running was a second, but important part of his life. There was always a tension in the house as a result. It probably got worse as we got older (teenagers) and my dad started to do activities with the kids at the weekend which my mum didn’t participate in.
All I was going to add, is it’s worth thinking about how this is affecting the kids.
Interesting post. Is there anything you would have liked your Dad to have done differently?
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@ vickypea - No it wasn't directed at you. Just an observation from within my own circles and what I've witnessed over the years.
It's a sad situation people are under such pressure to look as though everything they do is successful and become isolated from real help. They look around and think everyone else is doing it right and/or they are frightened of ridicule and/or embarrassment.
People, with the odd exception of course, aren't open enough about these things, even within families.
So you win races without training, your wife is smoking hot and you actually have sex... Verses has it #humblebrag
😉
In response to Steve's "Interesting post. Is there anything you would have liked your Dad to have done differently?"
That's a great question. In all honesty, no. If he'd been more forceful I guess it would have ended up with me having divorced parents. He did the best he knew how to keep stuff together. He genuinely wasn't responsible for my mum's happiness. I wish she'd have worked out stuff sooner so they could have got to where they are now but while the family was younger.
No public linen airing from me, but maybe we'll have a chat at the BBB, DrP..
Having had more arguments than I can ever recall (although my wife can!) I can honestly say that more sex was the solution. It's base I know but it really does make her less hostile towards my hobbies and interests.
Not saying it's the end to strife but it seems to keep her on my side. Pulling my weight when needed also keeps the piece.
After reading the whole thread, I think chestercopperpot has it.
This 21st obsession with being 'happy' 24/7 isn't natural. It's impossible to be happy all the time. We have to have the lows to appreciate the highs.
This is why (some) slebs end up with a mucked up, drug/drink fuelled life. They have so many happy and 'high' moments, that they're constantly striving for the next.
You have answered your own question about being a fixer. Women aren't very good at taking advice from their other half and tend to listen to female friends. Try and put yourself in your wife's shoes.
This is just a blip in your life atm, you'll work through it. Everything else is in place.
>Try and put yourself in your wife’s shoes.
That's really bad for your feet.
Glad it not just my Mrs then who doesn't take advice from their other halves ..... oh but if a friend suggests something it must be gospel.... 🙂
It's all fun and games... wouldn't have it any other way.
We bicker like cat and dog, but I don't see that as a problem. if you can't have a pop as your nearest and dearest who can you? ... If it starts getting out of hand in our house, it normally means we haven't had sex in a while..... OP you says it's all good in that dept, so maybe your making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Rather than trying to fix her underlining issue... how about looking at your own? You want praise for winning some silly race .... are you seven?
Men have had past times to get out of the house for time immemorial .... (pigeon fancying FFS, now those fellas must really dislike their wives).... and wives have rolled their eyes at their men's antics for just as long.
Get over it ...really no one cares but your race results... there is nothing more boring than someone else's hobbies... we all know a golf bore.
You are keeping fit, having your own fun and setting a great example to your kids.... that's all the reason you need to continue.
But may I suggest running .... shoes on, out the door, decent workout/training, back and showered ready to look after the kids in about an hour. She'll not even notice you've gone half the time.
And... And .... if you are training for a marathon somehow this is alright... you'll get as much time as you reasonably want.. well that's how it played out in my house.
Good luck
"Are you both happy with your sex life?"
hers or mine?
this thread is such a bummer. i can relate to some aspects here. good luck to the OP.
Rather than trying to fix her underlining issue… how about looking at your own? You want praise for winning some silly race …. are you seven?
In a really honest way, "thank you!". This is kind of why I posted here..it's nice to NOT jsut surround yourself in an echo chamber of confirmative self pity.. I think you ARE right in a way...
I'm likely just feeling a bit sorry for myself, and selfishly focussing on MY losses here...
This is just a blip in your life atm, you’ll work through it. Everything else is in place.
Like all things, a bit of time and some flowers, and re-focussing attention on us/her, should see things right.
I was chatting to my son the other day (He's 8) when we were waiting at the top of the slide at the swimming pool - i suggested we wait for 'mum and his sister' so we can all go down together. He said that wasn't fair as he's at the top now. I said to him "that's right, that's not fair - we ARE worse off. But it's nice to wait for them. Sometimes we jsut have to accept we are worse off, in order to do nice things together".
I'm not sure if i was talking to him or me......
Cheers again...
I'll probably reply to other threads as my usualy jolly old self... don't judge me for that....
DrP
You want praise for winning some silly race …. are you seven?
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">My missus is just about to finish the Camino on a bike including riding 40 miles at 5000 feet in a blizzard in april - would it be stupid of me to praise her for this as she is just being needy? Should i tell her to grow up?</span>
DrP .... Glad my tough love hit the right note .... It's only given through my own very similar experience ... 🙂
Junky ... Mid-life crisis rubbish is still mid-life crisis rubbish no matter the sex.
I'm really not that impressed with her "accomplishment" and far less with yours for being married to her..... But like I said aye? ... the things we do get away from the other half ... don't tell me, her other hobby is pigeon fancying 🙂
Try patting your wife on the top of the head saying " never mind dear" then when she gets a bit narky try saying " you are cute when you are angry"
Works for me
I’m really not that impressed with her “accomplishment” and far less with yours for being married to her…
WTF... Am i misreading that or are you being properly harsh here ?
you are not misreading it at all it was deliberate but why feed the troll? A cycling tour is a midlife crisis on a cycling forum how desperate [ and dumb] is that ? 🙂
… don’t tell me, her other hobby is pigeon fancying
Marvellous! I hope she at least does this on occasion 😀
re-reading some of these responses, in the light of a recent situation (no, not the speeding ticket) and wondering on people's thoughts and whether they mirror my own.
One of my wife's friends has been diagnosed with breast cancer. It's only a small lump, very treatable, she's had it taken out and is having follow up treatment (i think radiotherapy) today. My wife has gone with her because
- her husband isn't very good with this sort of stuff and not 'coping' very well
- she'd rather have her friend there with her than her husband.
I know it's very much a 'in their shoes' situation and maybe (hopefully) I'll never know whether I'd cope with it, but I'd be damned if I didn't try, and I'd be mortified if in a situation like this, if I wasn't the person she'd want to support her on this. Which as I say made me re-read this and think, through all the good and the bad, the arguments, the times when i thought we were done - would my wife ever not have been the person I'd turn to and vice versa.
And if you can't say without a moment's hesitation that yes, there's no-one you'd want by your side more..... then set to work.
The rest - is just details.
fair point Jon but the other thing is you cannot be everything for your partner - we all have strengths and weaknesses but you should be each others best friend
[i]tjagain wrote:[/i]
Try patting your wife on the top of the head saying ” never mind dear” then when she gets a bit narky try saying ” you are cute when you are angry”
Works for me
Video or it didn't happen
Oh .... sorry to burst the bubble gents ..... Our sport/hobby/interest is just a past time.
Don't take it or yourselves so serious.
I did a 100 mile run last year ... so what .... I like running, so did it for a long while ??
Lady likes riding her bike, so does it for a long time.... Honestly good for her, hope she enjoyed herself.
Edit ... my point is undoubtedly more eloquently put by Theother..... Facing life's unexpected crisis calmly, bravely and maybe with grace is a real accomplishment ... these other things ... races/ challenges are mere baubles ...
We should be so lucky to be able to do them.
Too long, didnt read all of it aside from establishing that:
Your wife needs to be getting her endorphins.
She probably resents how easily you can pop out and get yours
Its not about you spending family time togther, you need to facilitate her getting free time to do what she wants without you telling her or suggesting what she can do.
Family time still involves her being with the kids.. Seems she needs a break from them
So, take the kids somewhere.. just you. Give her some down time. Make it a routine so she identifies where she can get some of her life back.
This is something i also need to work much harder on!
Make time for some for intimacy too..not just once the kids are in bed but when theybare botneven a thought (whenntheybare out @school, daycare, @grandparents) it helps 😉 it might have to start with couple time/date night though or itll end in another arguement if you ask for a game of hide the sausage right off the bat.
[i]Ro5ey wrote:[/i]
Rather than trying to fix her underlining issue… how about looking at your own? You want praise for winning some silly race …. are you seven?
What's wrong with people on here? No, that or doing the Camino in a blizzard isn't that important in the grand scheme of things - but you know what, if you look at it in those terms my whole life and yours is utterly inconsequential. These are the sort of things which make us people, and I'd certainly be excited by somebody I loved doing well at something they enjoy and is an important part of their lives. Exactly what is important enough to take seriously in your world?
No, I'm sure he doesn't want praising as if he's seven, but being positive about other people's accomplishments is a normal part of being an empathic human being. Heck, I even tend to congratulate people I'm not in love with (even those I have no sexual interest in at all) when they successfully complete a difficult climb or learn to do something new on their skates. Maybe you've never tried that, so don't appreciate that it's a win/win and that reinforced positivity makes the world so much happier a place than just putting other people down.
Oh, and congratulations on your contributions to this thread 😉
being positive about other people’s accomplishments is a normal part of being an empathic human being.
Absolutely !! But when I cone on here I have to constantly remind myself how many "non normal" posters there are.
But a great thread on the whole. Lot's of insight into problems I've have had in my own marriage. STW at its best 😁
Blimey! Quite startling how many posts sound like how my Wife and i seem to be going.
She always says that she doesn't mind me riding or doing any other hobby/activity but the sulky reaction says otherwise.
She will not argue or dicuss about things either. She just goes quiet and bottles stuff up.
A lot of the time it's not even stuff for myself, but jobs around the house or garden - stuff I'd really rather not be doing, but it still gets the same reaction.
My wife has no hobbies and all attempts to get her into something has failed over the years. She will quite happily spend the whole evening watching crap on TV playing rubbish games on her phone while jobs around the house never get done. If I go off and do something productive it winds her up and she seems to begrudge it.
I've had loads of failed interests over the years which I never even get started with like woodworking, wheelbuilding, teaching myself electronics etc. and with regards to cycling I never seem to get past frustratingly unfit because I can't spend enough time riding and all my bikes are always on the edge of being complete wrecks because maintenance is another one of those things that gets huffed and puffed at.
Ho hum...