[Closed] Ding doing: The toff's career is dead

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/st-georges-cross-house-is-workers-cooperative-2014112193013 ]You've got to love the Mash[/url] 😆

Excellent !

😆

I think what did for her was not the ambiguity of the original tweet but the fact she ran off to the Guardian and complained about prejudice against Islington dwellers when confronted.

EDIT: I find it rather sad that Cross of St George is associated by so many on here with the far right when the organisation that probably flys it most is the Church of England.

EDIT 2: Orwell is very good on the distinction between Nationalism and Patriotism, viz:

Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.

Simple - if you're Scottish wave a Saltire, if you're English wave a Union Flag. Problem solved.

aracer neatly summarises why so many pro-Britain Scots are deeply suspicious of certain English tendancies...

Add a wink, go on you know you want to...

@ernie UKIP is the only party openly campaigning for an EU exit, that's worth a lot of votes right now. If exiting the EU is a priority for you they are the only party which is actually campaigning for your vote.

For general thread comments on QT above. As for pulling out of Europe being financial suicide, do you really think that the Germans (and French) won't want to sell us cars and the French and Irish won't want to sell us Agricultural products. For that they will trade us access to their markets and the city to financial services. Back in the day (1990's ?) we used to have a 10% tax on new cars, I can't see the core EU members wanting to see an independent UK re-introducing that so they will enter into trade agreements with us. The Japanese car companies aren't going to be closing their factories. If we need immigrants labour or skills we will take them in, after they have filled out an application form. On the positive side we will at a pen stroke gain many billions in tax form Amazon, Starbucks, Apple, Google, eBay, Facebook etc who use Luxembourg and Irish subsidiaries combined with EU tax treaties to pay no UK tax on their huge UK derived profits.

At times, the Mash just nail it.

As for EU, 'we' - British people and politicians - always seem to talk about it as outsiders. Closer inspection of what is going on there would reveal not only severe austerity and nations that were not in post-crunch recession (e.g. France) now tipping into it, but also a very real backlash against the EU and in many cases far more right-wing than anything in the UK.

Both France and Italy are at loggerheads with German monetary policy and also at EU austerity. Italy have now stated they will publish all ('secret') communication from the EU, and are also threatening to blow the lid off just how much money is wasted in the Strasbourg-Brussels merry-go-gray-train.

French and the EU. They are lording it up about the fact their dire economic performance will result in an extra billion euros from the EU

MP's shouldn't be allowed twitter or FB accounts, for the good of their own careers...

Having an account should be mandatory, for pretty much exactly that reason. Better to have visibility of what they really think, no?

I think its a great shame that our countries flag is being associated the lazy racism (and football)

I can't stand football, and people wave the flag about when we are losing at some world cup or another.

Yet often the same people don't display the flag on St Georges day, (which should be a national holiday)

I find it strange that in ENGLAND people make a bigger deal of St Patricks Day then they do St Georges day.

Having lived in the USA for 3 years, they have huge national pride, its a shame we seem only to have it when associated with football, and at all other times its often regarded as racist !

Junkyard - lazarus
Its pre judging based on limited information. FWIW you need to persuade me the flag is generally not seen/has not been mainly used by racists.

As i said I hope it gets reclaimed but it has not yet.

See also swastika.

What a load of absolute bollox. What makes you think anyone owes you an explanation for anything, let alone your own skewed views on patriotism?!

As for the swastika, that was the symbol of the political party of one Adolf Hitler. Maybe you need to explain why you're grouping people who display a nation's flag through pride with the one and only nazi party...

Never heard such a stupid analogy in all my life and if you're not a politician, you're wasted.

On the positive side we will at a pen stroke gain many billions in tax form Amazon, Starbucks, Apple, Google, eBay, Facebook etc who use Luxembourg and Irish subsidiaries combined with EU tax treaties to pay no UK tax on their huge UK derived profits.

Not true, they would still be able to benefit from the Double Tax Treaties that are negotiated separately to the EU rules and would continue in force.

[quote=igm ]Add a wink, go on you know you want to...

Given it's been explained that in Scotland waving a Saltire is a perfectly acceptable patriotic thing to do, whilst waving a Union Flag has unpleasant connotations, and in England waving a Union Flag is a perfectly acceptable patriotic thing to do, whilst waving a George's Cross has unpleasant connotations, I don't know why I'd want to do that. It's hardly hijacking the Union Flag for England to suggest that. I suppose I could have used one of these 😐

aracer - I'm probably just too old and too jaded. I accept your point. You were absolutely correct in the flag hijack comment of what had shot into my mind.

Having lived in the USA for 3 years, they have huge national pride, its a shame we seem only to have it when associated with football, and at all other times its often regarded as racist !

Having lived in the USA for three years, you may possibly have an insight into the cultural and historical differences between there and the UK.
It might be the sheer size of the place, the fact that it's 50 states federated under that one flag. Or even because they rebelled, seceded and created their own nation. In brief their flag represents their freedom from an oppressive imperial power, whereas ours, the cross of St George was and, it could be argued rests the symbol of that very oppressive imperial power.

As for the swastika, that was the symbol of the political party of one Adolf Hitler. Maybe you need to explain why you're grouping people who display a nation's flag through pride with the one and only nazi party...

Because it's a good example of a symbol's meaning changing over time, presumably. The angled cross has been used by many, many cultures for a very long time, almost always with a positive meaning, before old Adolf got hold of it.

cozz - Member

I think its a great shame that our countries flag is being associated the lazy racism (and football)

I can't stand football, and people wave the flag about when we are losing at some world cup or another.

Yet often the same people don't display the flag on St Georges day, (which should be a national holiday)

I find it strange that in ENGLAND people make a bigger deal of St Patricks Day then they do St Georges day.

Having lived in the USA for 3 years, they have huge national pride, its a shame we seem only to have it when associated with football, and at all other times its often regarded as racist !

Consider that your countries' flag was the backdrop for genocidal slaughter and atrocities all over the world in the name of imperialism and you might understand why other nationalities, and people of different ethnic backgrounds living in the uk dislike it, or at least see negative connotations.

Not true, they would still be able to benefit from the Double Tax Treaties that are negotiated separately to the EU rules and would continue in force.

@jimjam and Spain, France and Holland ?

She must be OK, she rides a bike

[url= http://cdn.theguardian.tv/mainwebsite/2014/11/21/141121emilythornberry-16x9.mp4 ]linky[/url]

Milliband makes some more comments, Labour are dodging the question as to what they thought she was trying to say though.

[i]I would be deeply angry is someone came down my road and took a picture of my house and put it on the internet, as would most of the people watching this programme. That is not an acceptable behaviour for a member of parliament ...

She put on the internet a picture of somebody’s house which left question marks over why she had done that, what she was trying to say. That was deeply insulting. She apologised and she’s resigned.[/i]

What a load of absolute bollox. What makes you think anyone owes you an explanation for anything, let alone your own skewed views on patriotism?!

As for the swastika, that was the symbol of the political party of one Adolf Hitler. Maybe you need to explain why you're grouping people who display a nation's flag through pride with the one and only nazi party...

Never heard such a stupid analogy in all my life

As i keep saying it is shame this has happened and the english need to reclaim the flag . Unfortunately its associated with the EDL, the NF, football hooligans, skinheads etc,

Another example would be the word ****.It is just an abbreviation like Scot but you cannot use that either as its meaning has become more than just an abbreviation and folk may well think you are a racist if you use it.

Cougar the Buddhist one has the legs going the other way to the Nazi one but i dont think I would risk displaying it

I remember posting (naively, before I fully comprehended the bickering on this site) an observation about the rainbow flag and how it's meaning has changed over the years..

[quote=Junkyard ]Cougar the Buddhist one has the legs going the other way to the Nazi one but i dont think I would risk displaying it

Not so. In Buddhism and all other uses the arms can go either way - I think it's only the Nazis who standardised on a direction (and subsequent revisionism which suggested using only ones with arms going the other way to avoid association). See my picture above which has them going both ways - though curiously only one in the "nazi" direction, I wonder if that was a mistake or a later revision (plenty of other pictures with them going either way).

I said what I think when I see the flag. Plenty agree with me so you need to persuade us it does not belong to racists.

I'm with you on this Junkyard. I don't think he's been to somewhere like Oldham. Lots of 'patriots' there hanging out their George Crosses in a friendly sort of "welcome to Oldham" way.

jambalaya - Member

@ernie UKIP is the only party openly campaigning for an EU exit, that's worth a lot of votes right now. If exiting the EU is a priority for you they are the only party which is actually campaigning for your vote.

Thanks for the tip but my vote doesn't go to fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists. I would vote Tory before voting UKIP.

I find it rather sad that Cross of St George is associated by so many on here with the far right when the organisation that probably flys it most is the Church of England.

It's just how it is in some places. I don't see a George Cross flying from a church steeple and think "racists", but I do when I see one hanging outside a council house window in Oldham. It's almost a given I'm afraid.

Good to see the bloke who's house it was and the Sun showing their respect for the George Cross;

[img] [/img]

[they're outside Thornberry's house, btw. She needs to get her knocker sorted]

@earnie I fully appreciate that I was just pointing out one of UKIPs primary appeals to voters

I see the Sun have been up to their normal tricks, drove the guy down in a white van covered in England flags (with Sun logo of course) to get an apology

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11245849/White-van-man-comes-looking-for-Emily-Thornberry.html ]link[/url]

i see the Sun have been up to their normal tricks

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

I'll bet some of his friends are black.

There's so much bigotry on this thread it's unbelievable. I have no idea whether he is racist or not, or anyone else for that matter, but i'm not going to start assuming people are just because they read a particular newspaper or dress in a certain way.
Maybe it's ok for the middle classes to judge others this way though and i missed the memo........as long as they're white European they're ripe for judging eh!!

[i] I have no idea whether he is racist or not[/i]

This is what he said.

"I don't care who it pisses off. I know there is a lot of ethnic minorities that don't like it."

He is.

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244791/Man-who-lives-at-house-in-Thornberry-tweet-hits-back.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11244791/Man-who-lives-at-house-in-Thornberry-tweet-hits-back.html[/url]

But if we were not in the EU we can re-negotiate/withdraw from those at will.

We could, but it is not something we have ever done, and would have pretty widespread economic implications and would create potential panic in the financial markets. Therefore it is highly unlikely. Even doing this would be unlikely to significantly effect your targets as much of the planning would survive under existing domestic legislation as currently structured or with a bit of tinkering. Most of their planning is designed to circumvent US rules on controlled foreign companies - getting profit out of subs isn't difficult.

Fair enough wwaswas - but do we know this about everyone else flying a georges cross?

There's so much bigotry on this thread it's unbelievable.

Maybe it's ok for the middle classes to judge others this way though and i missed the memo

EDIT: must type faster/drink brew quicker

do we know this about everyone else flying a georges cross?

There's so much bigotry on this thread it's unbelievable. I have no idea whether he is racist or not, or anyone else for that matter, but i'm not going to start assuming people are just because they read a particular newspaper or dress in a certain way.

That's very pc of you, but on first impressions I'd say on balance he probably is. That's not bigotry, that's just life experience. In the words of Dirty Harry:-

“When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher’s knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn’t out collecting for the Red Cross.”

I find it strange that in ENGLAND people make a bigger deal of St Patricks Day then they do St Georges day.

I'm of part Irish descent. TBH there's very little about being English born that I'm proud of.

As I keep saying it is shame this has happened and the english need to reclaim the flag

I am quite happy not to reclaim it, the Union flag is far better especially when flying from the prow of one Her Majesties finest grey war canoes, whilst ploughing through the blue and crinkly stuff ensuring the container loads of chinese made junk arrives on our shores safely 🙂

It's just how it is in some places. I don't see a George Cross flying from a church steeple and think "racists", but I do when I see one hanging outside a council house window in Oldham. It's almost a given I'm afraid.

What is it about council houses that makes people so bloody ignorant and racist ??

Is it all the spam, fags and Jeremy kyle ?

Sausagefingers - so you'd be perfectly content flying a rainbow flag to show the world that you appreciate rainbows? You wouldn't be concerned that the public in general might get a different message?

"

I'll bet some of his friends are black"

Listen to yourself your worse than Thornberry, another judgmental ****, you know nothing of the man.

Flying flags just isn't British.

This place can be so good at times, and so utterly, utterly shite at others.

People try to hold themselves in such high esteem and end up no better than the people they think they are better than. Suppose thats life though, you'd have thought I'd be used to it by 38 wouldn't you. It's all very depressing......

yunki - Member

Sausagefingers - so you'd be perfectly content flying a rainbow flag to show the world that you appreciate rainbows? You wouldn't be concerned that the public in general might get a different message?

Sorry Yunki,that's gone right over my head.
I've had some great advice from great people on here but comparing the union flag to the swastika?? Anyone thinking that's anywhere close to being right is beyond offensive
I'm off #massive flounce

I'm not sure what's going on here everyone seems to be outraged at something

You can't even call a racist a racist anymore its PC gone mad !

I'm not bothered about people calling racists, racists. But I am bothered about people calling me a racist if I chose to wave and england flag whilst not being at a football match!

We need jamie to come and Photoshop various flags onto that pic of white van Dan outside thornberrys house
Have him holding a.....
A saltire
A union jack
A swaztika
A rainbow flag
One of those black Islamic state flags
A giant ukip pound sign

And we van see which one is more offensive