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Elfin is spot on. Again.
I also agree with this:
She is as thick as two short planks.
The above sentiment applies to far too many politicians unfortunately.
When questioned about her son’s schooling she responded by saying that “West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children.”
“So”, Neil asked, “black mums love their kids more than white mums, do they?”
Abbott then clamed up, saying that she had said all she was going to say. Then Neil, obviously irritated, went for the jugular;
“Supposing Michael said white mums will go to the wall for their children. Why did you say that? Isn’t it a racist remark? If West Indian mums are as wonderful as you say, why are there so many dysfunctional West Indian families in this country? And why do so many young West Indian men end up in a life of crime and gangs? You didn’t want your son to go to a school full of kids who have been brought up by West Indian mums.”
wrecker - I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.
Thanks for the reply TJ, but I fail to see how the intent was anything other than casual, ingrained racism.
I would like to see her sacked.
West Indian mums will go to the wall for their children
Is she west indian then, or born in Paddington?
"If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism."
simply does not follow
It does not follow that if accusations you mention are not false that they are then true? TJ logic.
Nursing.
I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.
there is a point to what she said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it
Wry grin at Wikipedia.
Aracer - you said I had said tories are racist. I did not. that quote does not say that.
there is a point to what she said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it
So defenders of casual racism usually say.
Agreed aracer - however I - as explained above- have actually seen the point she was making in action. On more than one occasion.
you said I had said tories are racist. I did not.
So by mentioning accusations of racism against them - which you have now confirmed you believe were true - what exactly were you saying?
I meant exactly what I said.
which you have now confirmed you believe were true
Stop making things up that I have never said - where have I said that?
Ah thanks for pointing that out aracer. I put it there especially as I saw you were active on the thread and wouldn't be able resist. You're lovely and reliable like that.
So TJ what you're saying is that the behaviour of a few people who've not had the benefit of being raised in a multicultural society who also happen to be white reinforces Diane Abbott's assertion that as a general rule most white people have a prediliction to be ignorant colonialists?
Or did I miss some subtlety there?
[edit] Actually, please don't reply to this. Ms Abbott has apologised for her remarks which is the best outcome anyone could hope for. Time to close the thread.
Stop making things up that I have never said - where have I said that?
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
"Are you suggesting that such accusations are false?"
No
i thank you for that quote elf. i am avoiding the londonishness in favour of the scotch as my association with your land is not the east but the 'sarf' as i believe you say it. my oh's mum is just coming back from (wouldn't you just believe the coincidence) scandinavia where she's been in hospital to have more of the same in that londontown. curiously she's more worried about service provision rather than if she can continue her excellent (and multilingual) care from those lovely swedish people.
however, as tj's wrongness has, i believe, been illustrated beyond any useful furhter discussion and also because we've now had four pages of 'is it racism' (as usual?) i'd like to attend to soulwood's comment and that of abbot's original interlocutor.
does the notion of a 'black community' have any real meaning any more beyond serving a range of vested (and sometimes opposing) interests? and does the constant sidelining of such a discussion,as above, into a mutual recriminative process of accustaion and counter-accusation act as a process of obfuscation that obscures the real social and economic problems of a large group of society who share far more in terms of problems than differ just because they're from a different ethnnic background?
Aracer - I did not make any claim as to the validity of the accusations at all. so I am neither suggesting the accusations are false or true
Anyone got any comment on this?
Nursing.I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.
there is a point to what she (abbott) said that got lost because of the stupid way she said it
I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs.
So, that's the fault of the Bulgarian nurses, that they weren't adequately supervised and that such cultural differences weren't taken into consideration, then? I'm sure that with proper supervision, any problems could have dealt with effectively. My mum worked as a nurse in the 50s and 60s, and had to deal with patients from backgrounds she had absolutely no knowledge of. She also worked alongside nurses from the West Indies and Africa, so had to learn to understand them too. They all coped. The NHS did not collapse.
Abbott's a racist cah. Elfin hath spoken in the third person again.
THREAD CLOSED
To me, she does seem to be racist. You could argue on the basis of that tweet that she was referring to 'white authority figures' which would still be a bit contentious, but more understandable. But previous comments, especially the nurses one, does seem to betray a bit of a mindset. She seems to be a bit, "I'm not racist, [i]but[/i]..."
Corect elf - and thats the point abbott was making - just badly
thats the point abbott was making - [s]just badly[/s] with casual racism
can anyone help me allocate sparse resources, plase (remember, we're all in this together) and predict whether this one'll get to 1000 before the guns one gets to 2000
I'm going for the big-money post this time round but I can't watch both
can anyone help me allocate sparse resources, plase (remember, we're all in this together) and predict whether this one'll get to 1000 before the guns one gets to 2000
I was just wondering how to resurrect my atheism one (which is still comfortably ahead of the guns at the moment)
do these guys read stw or what?
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/race-named-as-today%27s-thing-to-talk-shit-about-201201054732/ ]http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/race-named-as-today%27s-thing-to-talk-shit-about-201201054732/[/url]
TJ
you said I had said tories are racist. I did not.
TJ
The tory party clearly has racist elements in it
[i]threads passim[/i]
HOWZAT!
ooh yeh, just think, there could be some 995ers out there just waiting to be popped
I bet one of the IT peeps could rig a search for number of posts
TandemJeremy - Member
wrecker - I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.
I think this is probably spot on, but the point is it still doesn't alter the fact that because of the heightened leftish propagated awareness of various 'isms' she, being a black politician (there I go labelling her when I seriously don't view her as anything other than a politician)has been hoisted by her own petard so to speak.
So my point? My point is when you have either a black or a white kid in a nursery and they innocently chirp up with a remark about the colour of the other childs skin, instead of recoiling in horror and chastising the kid for mention it, we treat it the same as if it were a comment about what the other kid might be wearing.
We just need to be a bit more grown up generally and realise the planet we're on is getting smaller and we are all integrating quite nicely at personal levels, only those who would govern and wish to do so by division act the way she describes and it is not a skin colour issue, division has myriad opportunities.
From the mash;
Bill McKay, who has been talking shit since he was nine, insisted: "Out of context out of context out of context. Tory scum."
OMG 😯
TJ = Bill McKay!
no, tj it's not the point abbot was making, nor is it the point elf's making.
two points in your quote are telling. as with abbot, you don;t refer to 'some' bulgarian nurses, 'a few' bulgarian nurses but just plain old articleless bulgarian nurses. and abbot's point about the finns was,specifcally, that they shouldn't be employed. really, you're in agreement with that?
in which case you should be having a closer look at lothian's equality policies. further you note that this is a person who you state 'we' looked after, in other words accepting this was a team approach, tho reserving the right to blame a minority amongst you for any shortfall in care. because, as we all know for sure, edinburgh has not, nor is it possible that they could have, any form of prejudice except among the immigrant types.
as a corollary to such a facile example - a few years back i was working in the western when we got some albanian guy in. my whitey co-workers informed me that no-one could communicate with him, mainly it turned out, because no-one had thought to speak anything except english to him. step up the multilingual mr swiss. problem solved.
one of the signal characteristics of my career has been the diversity of the people i've got to work with. i have, and continue to believe (unlike yourself and diane abbot) that this is a strength rather than a weakness and, allowing for a few human foibles, the capacity for compassion across the caring professions is universal and not subject to any racial classification. further, a commitment to the resource that this variety provides nto only allows for better care but exposes and allows us to deal with the type of casual prejudice you're espousing.
anyway, it's been emotional, but i'm off to wash my bike.
final scores
swiss01 - sublimely correct
tj - daily mail wrong
Swiss - it is exactly that point. Its just you don't understand it.
For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s
For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s
Does that mean it's OK if you accidentally come out with casual racism?
For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s
I think it's a shame you stopped. Maybe it's time to rethink that particular New Years resolution.
Nobody's perfect.
I'd attach more credit/attention to 40 years of campaigning rather than a few mis-judged comments.
Actions speaking louder than words etc.
Does that mean it's OK if you accidentally come out with casual racism?
It's got to be worth one of these, at least.
[img] 
[/img]
Actions speaking louder than words etc.
Indeed, please take this advice up!!!!!
Nobody's perfect.I'd attach more credit/attention to 40 years of campaigning rather than a few mis-judged comments.
Actions speaking louder than words etc.
So would I, right up to the point where one (or more) of that person's comments turned in to exactly the sort of thing they had been campaigning against. Then, I would question their opinion very thoroughly in the light of that hypocrisy.
"What a Stupid Woman !!"
The Sky TV footage is brilliant of her doing a runner from the reporter after getting a convenient phone call.
For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s
And TJ reaches stratospheric levels of sanctimony. What a champ.
classic personal insults in lieu of rational argument.
the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen. Swiss in his eagerness to score points glosses over the fact this is a real issue and accuses me of racism instead.
Has anybody considered the possibility that Abbott may just be into Minor Threat?
So would I, right up to the point where one (or more) of that person's comments turned in to exactly the sort of thing they had been campaigning against. Then, I would question their opinion very thoroughly in the light of that hypocrisy.
Maybe.
People are excellent at focussing on the one mistake you make rather than the hundreds of things you've been doing well.
And in keeping with the spirit of modern society, it's also vitally important to take every opportunity to pick on peoples failings and use these against them, especially if they're people with a public profile or influence.
Oh how we revel in laying into people when it transpires they're fallible ... of course, we never make any errors of judgement or anything, oh no, never, we're all perfection personified 🙄
the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen
TJ - are you telling us now that its [b]not[/b] racist to mention something that is demonstrably true?
Got another quote from you TJ - interesting one:
I find racism unacceptable and say so. Both the overt and the insidious type ( which is the one folk find hard to see)
Does Diane Abbot's comment constitute [i]insidious racism[/i] TJ?