[Closed] Diane Abbott - I'm surprised it has taken a year

So you can't even mention 'enemies of the rockers' on here now? 😯

was anyone offended by her comment though?

seriously anyone here actually bothered what she said......?

Persinally, not particularly.

I kind of get what she was saying, albeit in a very clumsy way, and Twitter really isn't the place to be spouting opinions that need more than 140 characters (or whatever you get) to properly explain yourself.

Everyone's always banging on about how marvellously culturally and racially diverse the UK is, and how important an integrated society is ... and then the media keep on regurgitating phrases like "Black community", "Asian community" etc - they may be a nice soundbite for a news report but I believe these kind of phrases subtly affect attitudes and perpetuate the 'them' and 'us' mentality.

If I may digress a little...

bravohotel8er - Member
Mr Woppit - Member
Where's Effin, that's what I want to know.

He's been blacklisted.

Seriously? For what?

He's been blacklisted.

RACIST! 😉

I suppose she is claiming white peole have a history of racism, colonialism and divide and rule which is true

No argument from me there JY. The point is, if equally "true" comments were made about the history of a minority, there would bloody murder. Standards of equality should apply to ALL.

you could infer she is saying all white people do but she did not and I really doubt she meant that as she is not an idiot.

The comment she made was inspired either prejudice or idiocy. There is no other excuse. In reality, I'd say probably both looking at her track record.
Make no mistake, if it were a tory/libdem/green making racist comments, my opinion would be the same.

Mr Woppit - Member

If I may digress a little...

bravohotel8er - Member
Mr Woppit - Member
Where's Effin, that's what I want to know.

He's been blacklisted.

Seriously? For what?

There's been some sort of whitewash

Yes the political right are tories as are others- however I ask again - where did I accuse anyone of being racist?

Because the political right are usually attempting to defend one of their own from accusations of racism

the political right on here are usually attempting to deny racism / defend their own from accusations

Or am I to assume you accidentally missed off the bit where you explained that these were clearly false allegations?

Everyone's always banging on about how marvellously culturally and racially diverse the UK is, and how important an integrated society is ... and then the media keep on regurgitating phrases like "Black community", "Asian community" etc - they may be a nice soundbite for a news report but I believe these kind of phrases subtly affect attitudes and perpetuate the 'them' and 'us' mentality.

Indeed - when complaining about such things you really should try and avoid using an equivalent phrase though, whatever the context.

There's been some sort of whitewash

Still RACIST!!! 😉

Its just point scoring and people who normally defend clumsy and blunt use of language with PC GONE mad are acting all faux outraged to score some points

plus some bighitters aligning largely along normal divides for a lengthy bunfight

when this thread has done it's 15-20 pages maybe start one on Darcus Howe?

loum - Member

I'm going slightly off topic, and without meaning to detract from the Diane Abbott discrace, but why do you guess this? You know him well?

And btw, have a look at this video of Nadhim Zahawi in action.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/simonheffer/8272594/Nadhim-Zahawi-Up-to-his-brass-neck-in-sartorial-disgrace.html

No I don't know him, hence the guess. I also never said he was a saint himself but, being from an ethnic minority himself, he is likely to have suffered some form of racism during his life unlike most indigenous white folk.

it might be considered a slip of the tongue if diane abbott didn't have form - anybody (and tj of all people should remember this) recall ms abbott's charming comments on finnish nurses?

not that she should ever be accused of double standards. after all it was she herself who stood up after accusing blair and harman over sending their kids to public school and doing exactly the same herself to describe her position as 'intellectually incoherent'.

of course her decision was predicated on her being a single mum so that's okay. and she can't be a racist because, obviously, some of her best friends are white. that lovely michael portillo for example.

laughable, but all too predictable that the likes of tj should not only act as an apologist for such behaviour but also resort to name calling and such lazy daily mail style tropes as 'a slip of the tongue'.

Aracer - what on earth? can you please show where I accused tories of being racist? Or is it something you have simply made up? Or assumed I was saying?

aracer - Member
I predict closure and someone getting a ban after 4 or 5 pages.
Anybody else join me in a little prayer?

Sadly, there are too many atheists here for that to work, but worth a try

swiss01

TandemJeremy - Member

I dislike abbott and think she is a hypocrite - she is also dim and politically naive.

However I do not think this is racist at all. Just stupid, naive and illconsidered.

that do for you?

I am no apologist for Abbott

the Conservative spokesman for tweets

Diane Abbott racist?

Ooh yes she is!

Remeber the debacle of her comments regarding Finnish nurses? That somehow, 'blue eyed blonde-haired' nurses were incapable of looking after patients in Hackney?

Tell me how that [i]is not[/i] racist?

I did enjoy how Marc Wadsworth, who was chair of the Anti-Racist Alliance, as well as being a highly respected expert on race issues, pointed out to Ms Abbott that he himself was half-Finnish (stoppit), and that the current Ms Finland was a black woman of Nigerian descent. Abbott made massive generalisations about Finnish people that were ignorant, racist and culturally insensitive.

Abbott has achieved power because she appeals to Hackney's Black community, and also to many White middle class types who feel it's important for ethnic minorities to have political representation. She makes the right noises, popping up whenever a good publicity opportunity arises.

Truth is, she's a massive, massive hypocrite (praising Hackney's schools yet sending her own child to a private school), and not a fit and proper person to represent anyone in a democratic egalitarian society, in Parliament.

TJ, you are properly wrong on this one. Trust me. I know what I'm talking about, I live in east London, I see what's happening. You don't.

'White people love to play divide and conquer'? Racist ****. Does she actually know any White people?

Maybe she's spent too long hanging around Tories, trying to further her media career...

[img] [/img]

Now then, this is rumbling along nicely and everyone will soon forget the OP. The way I see her comment is that the encouragement of communities based purely on race with "leaders" leads to social division. When really we should be working towards integration and viewing communities as a whole no matter what race you are. Her idea of it being a white persons ideal is based on the past, when in fact my experience is that the continued division of communities based on race is something that is pursued by people in Equality Commisions and so on. Keeps 'em in a job.

I agree with elfin, internet explodes.

can you please show where I accused tories of being racist?

Can you read TJ? I mean you even wrote the lines I'm quoting. If you were suggesting that the accusations of racism "the right" were "usually" "attempting to defend" were false accusations (which is the only other possible explanation for what you wrote), then why not come out and say so?

Elf - I diasgee with you - same as on the finnish nurse comment. She had a valid point but made it so poorly she allowed her political opponents to shout racist at her. Dimwitted for sure.

I dislike abbott and think she is a hypocrite - she is also dim and politically naive.

However I do not think this is racist at all. Just stupid, naive and illconsidered.

not really, tj. she's made multiple statements over her career that could be construed as racism (and that, rather than her general dunderheadedness is what this thread is about), this last being less inflammatory than someofo the previous but of the same cast.

then again perhaps it's me who's wrong. by making fine distinctions (i'll avoid the term apologist for now)of a type that would almost certainly not be made for a public figure of a different background perhaps you are indeed manifesting that very 'divide and rule' instinct that abott suggests that, racially, is an imperative for you.

Does she actually know any White people?

I understand that some of her best friends are white people.

bravohotel8er - Member
I agree with elfin, internet explodes.

I agree with him as well.

World ends.

D.Abbott "Apologises for any offence caused"

Which isnt an apology really, implication is we heard her wrong and came to the wrong conclusion.

Aracer - yes I can read and I have asked you to explain where I said tories were racist. I did not say this and you have not explained or shown were I did.

oh, i see i've been far too polite. elf, i defer to your complete rightness.

swiss01 - Member

not really, tj. she's made multiple statements over her career [b]that could be construed as racism[/b]

Quite agree with you - 'cos she is stupid and naive she is unable to make her point without giving people the ammunition to accuse her of racism.

Next thing TJ and Elfin will be telling us that its racist to say there's a problem with gun crime in the black community

Erm, let's have a look shall we....

Oh, I have not. How disappointed you must be.

Only an ignorant fool would think such a thing of me.

I have no problem with you posing intelligent counters to any argument I may have, but don't go round claiming I'd say certain things.

Elf - I diasgee with you

It is your basic, inalienable Human Right to be wrong, and one which I will gladly defend on your behalf.

You don't live in east London TJ.

Shall I start commenting on Scottish stuffs, perhaps?

glitchybump

cos she is stupid and naive she is unable to make her point without[s] giving people the ammunition to accuse her of racism[/s]being racist

Elfin has nailed it.

Remeber the debacle of her comments regarding Finnish nurses? That somehow, 'blue eyed blonde-haired' nurses were incapable of looking after patients in Hackney?

Tell me how that is not racist?

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race. It's absolutely shocking. Load the shotguns lads. We're going over the top.

*is shocked*
*faints*

I'll try one last time - then assume that TJ is just on normal behaviour and ignoring the point and being deliberately obtuse because he's been caught with his pants round his ankles (again)

the political right on here are usually attempting to deny racism / defend their own from accusations

Are you suggesting that such accusations are false? If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism.

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race. It's absolutely shocking. Load the shotguns lads. We're going over the top.

Unfortunately, as with so many of your thread distillations dd, that's not actually true.

wrecker - I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

It's ok!

She's been on the telly and apologised for causign offence.

still, don't let that ruin a good thread.

[i]due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist[/i]

I suspect this chap had the same problem;

Loving the white middle class violent fantasists masturbating themselves into a froth over a bit of a slight against their downtrodden race

I think you'll find that most of my violent middle class fantasies are directed against TJ. 😉

[Only joking TJ but hell, one stupid comment deserves another]

Are you suggesting that such accusations are false?

If not, you are by implication accusing the political right of racism.

TandemJeremy - Member
wrecker - I believe the intent was not racist for sure and I understand the point she was trying to make. However due to her being dim, naive and not thinking before speaking it came out in such a way as to appear racist, give her opponents the chance to cry racism and unfortunately the message was lost.

Message read and understood. Please do not repeat 1000x. Even if provoked!!

i also think soulwood's comment is worthy of further discussion.

however as i'm having a go at tj and rather enjoying it, i think i'll continue. so,aside from your position which appears to be that if one expresses nakedly racist opinions it's excusable on the grounds of naivety and 'stupidity' (i'll parenthesise that last because of its obviously perjorative nature). here was me thinking it was just ignorant racism..

however i'm aghast that you should find anything defensible in abbott's position on finnish nurses. aside from that fact she had to apologise on the grounds it was such utter nonsense, a fact i wrote to her about at the time (at some length!) you're willing to be an apologist for this on the grounds above.

as i recall you work in the nhs in that embra. i presume you have no nurses from different countries who may well 'have never met a scottish person before' and therefore, under abbot's criteria, shouldn't be working here. do you share the same opinion about doctors? why, only this week, i started working with a romanian lassie who was straight off the plane. what would your response be be, given your 'naive' defense of abbot?

wait, it feels curiously familiar - would it be 'send them home'?

(sorry, that last was too obvious to resist!)

teh point she was making about nursing I have actaully seen happen.

What, blonde-eyed blue-haired Finnish nurses being incapable of looking after Black patients?

I believe the intent was not racist

came out in such a way as to appear racist

Stop avoiding the question - its not about the intent, or how it appeared - was the statement, itself, racist?