[Closed] Diane Abbott - I'm surprised it has taken a year

People are excellent at focussing on the one mistake you make rather than the hundreds of things you've been doing well.

Something Ms Abbott would never do herself presumably?

Labour Finally Comment

“We disagree with Diane’s tweet. It is wrong to make sweeping generalisations about any race, creed, or culture. The Labour Party has always campaigned against such behaviour – and so has Diane Abbott.”

Time for an apology, or it won’t be the last comment they have to make about their Shadow Health Minister…

http://order-order.com/2012/01/05/labour-finally-comment/

😆

joao3v16, very valid points and yes, we are all far from perfect. However, when someone sets themselves up on a pedestal as a campaigner on such issues, they need to be even more acutely aware of the potential of falling from that pedestal by becoming the very thing they campaign against.

Nobody's perfect.

I'd attach more credit/attention to 40 years of campaigning rather than a few mis-judged comments.

Actions speaking louder than words etc.

Abbott has indeed had a good and at times very distinguished career. And certainly deserves credit for her work to fight for better opportunities for ethnic minorities and underprivileged people in her constituency. She has actually bin a pretty good MP.

BUT

She has also acted in a very selfish and self-serving manner, made the right noises politically and bin proven to be a massive hypocrite. And there are many others who've had more distinguished careers than her, but who have not sought media attention and 'celebrity' in the way she has. You've got to question her motives tbh.

If anyone's guilty of 'divide and conquer', it's her. S[i]he's[/i] the one presenting herself as a 'West Indian' (rather than 'British') person, and claiming that people of other cultures and ethnicities don't understand Black people. [i]She's[/i] the one setting apart Black people, communities and culture from that of 'British' culture, as though the two are mutually exclusive. Full of contradictions.

She picks and choses ideologies to suit her own agenda. And acts all hurt when it backfires on her.

'Blonde-haired blue-eyed'; indeed; is she not aware that many Finns are in fact from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds? As are British people?

In the same way that not all West Indians are black?

[img] [/img]

joao3v16, very valid points and yes, we are all far from perfect. However, when someone sets themselves up on a pedestal as a campaigner on such issues, they need to be even more acutely aware of the potential of falling from that pedestal by becoming the very thing they campaign against

Yep. She's been a bit of a twit, but I don't believe she's a racist.

Yep. She's been a bit of a twit, but I don't believe she's a racist.

If being a twit means that she made a racist comment, I agree. There's the problem.

She's been a bit of a twit, but I don't believe she's a racist.

The point was that her [i]statement[/i] was racist, not that she is. we all say things that are poorly worded or plain wrong but to say that a certain statement is not racist because of some other factors not included in the context of the statement is wrong.

the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen. Swiss in his eagerness to score points glosses over the fact this is a real issue and accuses me of racism instead.

"TandemJeremy - Member
Anyone got any comment on this?

Nursing.

I have worked with Bulgarian nurses who were simply unable to understand the partiular issues of the asian muslim chap we looked after as they had never met anyone from his position. Without any intent they treated him awfully because they lacked the background to understand his needs."

Can you explain in what way they treated him awfully? Then i may have a comment .
I was involved with a mental health group that challenged White/Western bias in mental health work and clearly in that area cultural sensitivity and understanding is essential.

In other areas cultural sensitivity can become a tolerance of and promotion of a different prejudice.

Crankboy - a total lack of [i]cultural sensitivity and understanding[/i] He was dyspahgic after a stroke. He did not like personal care being done by the female nurses ( and we had men working there) the bulgarian nurses would go in and restrain him to give him the care not only not realising why he was resisting but when told that was why refusing to aknowledge he had the right to have male care staff.

teh line manager refused to take the situation seriously. Non NHS and I left there shortly afterwards.

Its an example of staff from a background where they did not understand the culture of the people they were looking after and thus giving substandard care.

Can we all just take a moment to see how Twitter is used properly by a politician. In response to Lord Glasman's attack on Wet Ed in the Guardian this morning:

Ladies and gentlemen, please bow your heads, and pray silence for the Political Big Hitter, John Prescott:

[i]"Glasman. You know sod all about politics, economic policy, Labour or solidarity. Bugger off and go 'organise' some communities!"[/i]

now [b]THAT[/b] is a tweet! Watch and learn Dianne. Watch and learn

😆

the fact is the issue abott raised about Finnish nurses I have seen happen. Swiss in his eagerness to score points glosses over the fact this is a real issue and accuses me of racism instead.

Would a west indian, ****stani etc etc nurse be any better equipped to deal with such issues?
Would it be acceptable for someone to say as much?
The answers to both are no, of course.

"Finnish" is not a race. Neither is "****stani". Neither is "Bulgarian"
In the same way that "British" is not a race.

The nursing example is a cultural issue, not a race issue.

There is a wonderful irony that in a country whose Establishment is (apparently) infected with institutionalised racism and whose colonial history is such a source of eternal shame that we are having discussions about Bulgarian nurses tending for Asian Muslims in a State-funded (I assume) institution.

Time for a run - it might become clear after all that.

I wonder if Wallace really did call DA just as she was being interviewed by SKY?

Swiss - it is exactly that point. Its just you don't understand it.

For your information I have been involved in [b]c[/b]ampaigning [b]a[/b]gainst [b]r[/b]acism and [b]p[/b]rejudice since the 70s

TJ

CARPing on since the 1970s

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Binners - nice quote and to think we also complain that too many of our politicians are well educated. I really do need a run.

The nursing example is a cultural issue, not a race issue.

Abbott referred to 'blonde hair and blue eyes'.

Those are [i]racial[/i] characteristics.

So it [i]is[/i] a race issue.

i'm off to wash my bike.

Has it come to this?

Have things got that bad?

😥

certinly a race issue. racist or a valid point made badly is the key thing

"Finnish" is not a race. Neither is "****stani". Neither is "Bulgarian"
In the same way that "British" is not a race.

I've not stated that they are. It doesn't mean that its acceptable to grossly generalise groups according to nationality.
Muslim isn't a race either, but saying something negative about muslims as a group is inappropriate and wrong.

Accusing someone of racism is pretty easy. It is much tougher to say for certain whether someone is, or if one of their actions/statements is racist due to the whole intended-interpreted issue (a much larger debate which could get into structuralist vs post-structuralist linguistics).

It is much easier to be certain if someone, or someone's statements are stupid. Abbott's statement is clearly stupid because a) it was done on twitter where context is hard to set/see, b) she creates an us and them dichotomy with 'white people' and 'we' which reinforces the things she is objecting against. and c) she should have said "[u]some[/u] [s]white[/s] people love playing ‘divide & rule’. We should not play their game".

glitchybump

racist or a valid point

Again - are you telling us that its not racist to mention something that is demonstrably true?

Answer please TJ

"Finnish" is not a race. Neither is "****stani". Neither is "Bulgarian"
In the same way that "British" is not a race.

The nursing example is a cultural issue, not a race issue.

Depends which definition you use:

race2 ? ?[reys] Show IPA
noun
1.
a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.
a population so related.
3.
Anthropology .
a.
any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b.
an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c.
a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
4.
a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5.
any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

Good post, Elf.

I've met Ms Abbott a couple of times and was deeply unimpressed on each occasion. Self-regarding is probably the nicest thing you could say about her.

Swiss - it is exactly that point. Its just you don't understand it.

For your information I have been involved in campaigning against racism and prejudice since the 70s

FUNNY THAT AS YOU ARE THE LEAST OPEN MINDED PERSON ON THE FORUM.. TJ you make me lol

Ooh; here's another interesting one:

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16424487.stm ]

"Throughout the entirety of the proceedings, over the past three months, all we have heard are denials and [b]denigration[/b] of Evra.

[i][Latin dnigrre, dnigrt-, to blacken, defame : d-, de- + niger, nigr-, black; see nekw-t- in Indo-European roots.][/i]

This is from a mayn accusing Liverpool FC of being hypocritical, yet is himself using the word 'denigrate' in relation to a black player.

You couldn't make it up....

TJ see how ugly that sounds? Just for once fella, pleas

TJ is one of those people that thinks only white people can be racist...

You coon't make it up....

Might want to edit that.....

TJ is one of those people that thinks only white people can be racist...

Unfortunately, I believe this to be true.

Zulu-Eleven - Member

racist or a valid point

Again - are you telling us that its not racist to mention something that is demonstrably true?

Answer please TJ

do you actually understand what racism is?

TJ is one of those people that thinks only white people can be racist...

Unfortunately, I believe this to be true.

Not true - I have seen racism from all directions so know all races can be racist. I simply do not believe Abbot was in this instance

Might want to edit that.....

Oops! Haddunt thought of that association! 😳 😆

Just so's folk don't get the wrong end of the stick....

Coon't = could not, couldn't. It's an [i]Elfinism[/i].

I'm not a racist, honest.

[img] [/img]

Just as I am putting on running shoes I have bizarre picture of TJ saying, "Some of my best friends are racist..." 😉

Sorry it that too much ironing there?

Zulu:

Again - are you telling us that its not racist to mention something that is demonstrably true?

Answer please TJ

TJ:

do you actually understand what racism is?

[b]Yes[/b] I do thanks

Now can you answer the question please TJ - Three times I've asked now.

teamhurtmore - Member

Just as I am putting on running shoes I have bizarre picture of TJ saying, "Some of my best friends are racist..."

Tee hee - like it.

Yes I do thanks

well in that case the answer is obvious.

oh well done elf it is far worse to use the word denigrate [ i did not know the etimology tbh] than say negro 10 times to someones face whilst nipping them to calm the situation down...LFC is your version of Abbot and her son going to private school....you just want to defend LFC no matter what...perhaps we should assume it is aaproblem with Sarth London type coknee charrcters or sumthink 🙄

This is from a mayn accusing Liverpool FC of being hypocritical, yet is himself using the word 'denigrate' in relation to a black player.

You coon't make it up.

waht you defending a man who said the n word to someone over and over again because he wears the shirt of the club you support ....sadlly elf we have no need to make this up ....you defend him if you want but reallly you would not be doing this had Keane done it to barnes would you ...shameful from you and Suarez

from Zulu

TJ
you said I had said tories are racist. I did not.
TJ
The tory party clearly has racist elements in it
threads passim
HOWZAT!

The tory party has some pro Europeans in it

The tory party is pro European

your conclusion does not follow note the use of the word some - obvioulsy it suggest some are not

oh, Its obvious it is TJ? Clearly not to me, nor I would imagine a few pwople on here.

are you telling us that its not racist to mention something that is demonstrably true?

Simple question that I'm now asking you for the fourth time to give a simple straight answer to

Well I've learnt something useful from this thread - from Fred of all people (the etymology of "denigrate")

So, could someone summarise for me? Which groups of racist apologists is winning?

And the answer you are going to get is if you understand what racism is the answer would be obvious to you 🙂

Which groups of racist apologists is winning?

Kenny Dalglish? No?

Which groups of racist apologists is winning?

What's the collective noun for a groups of racist apologists?

Which groups of racist apologists is winning?

It's unclear. It's hardly black and white now is it?

Stoner - go to the back of the class NOW!

I've lost count of the times Jeremy has thrown "Racist" around on here, bangs on about the undercurrent of prejudice only he can detect.

And then along comes a brown person making derogatory generalisations on the basis of skin colour and "Oh no! Not racist!" The classic gymnastic dilemma of the Guardian reading moral-relativist.

wrecker - Member

You coon't make it up....

Might want to edit that.....

I did a little lol at that...! 🙂

TJ should we really protect someones cultural right to be sexist?

I accept and appreciate that personal care is an emotive issue but Dianne Abbott's comments about Finnish nurses were clearly racist and her white people tweet is too. She defines people by skin colour and country of origin and makes value judgements based on that . I'm sure that you will find culturally sensitive Bulgarians and Finns Just as you will find culturally insensitive M.P.s who will try and use race to promote or indeed define their career.

Her naive stupidity is no doubt a factor in her racism but they are not an alternative explanation for her comments. The same is true of the members of the EDL i have met, they are Racist in part because they are badly educated and stupid.