[Closed] Damm Emmigrants

I remember talking to a bigot in a pub a few years ago who ranted about kin immigrants and those kin Poles coming over here and how he was pissed off with the country ,foriegners taking the jobs etc .Next thing he says he wants to go to Spain and open a bar. The irony of this was totally lost on him .....!!!

Published by TUC so it must be true.

😆

not that I normally believe everything the TUC says but it's probably close....

mikewsmith - Member

not that I normally believe everything the TUC says but it's probably close....

It must be true then ... 😆

..but I doubt many of them are living on state benefits. Which is what a lot of people complain about. Actually, how many UK immigrants live on benefits? Is that a Daily Mail myth?

For some reason the TV was on ITV last night while we waited for Indiana Jones to start.

It was hilarious, they actually had reporters at the airports at both ends waiting to report on the "wave of migrants". They managed to catch one slightly confused/hungover looking bloke who had just got off the plane.

I guess that in Waily Mail world, all immigrants are either living on benefits or taking our jobs.

I suppose that Brits abroad are doing the same, when they're not taking their UK benefits and not contributing to UK society.

Everyone is coming back to the motherland to roost ... 😆

..but I doubt many of them are living on state benefits.

Dunno, there was a fuss a while back here in Spain about elderly Brits using a disproportionate amount of local health care - not exactly living on state benefits, but a similar issue.

My daughter flies back to Bucharest, Romania, to work, this afternoon, to redress the balance.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-immigrants-pay/16332

..but I doubt many of them are living on state benefits.

Well I wouldn't want to return to the UK to live on benefits, they are crap compared to what I would get in Germany.

Published by TUC so it must be true.

Maybe you could provide a better source of statistics then. The TUC have nothing to directly gain on this issue other than exposing a big political lie.

I wonder how they collect those figures. Am I counted as one of the 32 in India? What criteria do they use to decide whether you are counted?

Cheers, Rich

I can believe that 1 in 10 British citizens live abroad (and I am one) as most will not want to relinquish their passports, possibly because either because they are working in Europe where this is not an issue or in countries that allow dual citizenship.

MSP - Member

The TUC have nothing to directly gain on this issue other than exposing a big political lie.

That must be true as well. 😆

..but I doubt many of them are living on state benefits.

An old mate of mine married an Austrian girl and moved out there where he lived on the rather generous state benefits* while he learnt the language and tried to find a job!

*He was receiving the equivalent of his previous salary for the first few months!

That must be true as well

Well maybe you could offer some argument against it, or perhaps you should read the forum rules on trolling.

Massive prawns, Stu!!!

I wonder if the number of Scots living in England is going to be an issue for UKIP/Tories/etc if the vote goes for independence?

Lies, lies and statistics. The attention grabbing headline numbers are 'Numbers of [b]British[/b] Emigrants' vs 'Number of Foreign Workers in [b]England and Wales[/b]', which is impressively smaller but leaves out Scotland and Northern Ireland so it's not an accurate comparison. Yuck, did I really just make a point in favour of the scaremongering idiots?!?!

Why would they stay in England wwaswas when an independent Scotland will be such a better place to live?

I am glad Keith Vaz was there to welcome our new friends in at the airport yesterday. A noble gesture if him to give up his holiday.

None of the ex pats are avoiding tax in UK I'm certain.

MSP - Member 

Maybe you could provide a better source of statistics then. The TUC have nothing to directly gain on this issue other than [s]exposing a big political lie[/s] making a political point.

FTFY

As shermer says, statistics can be interpreted to suit anyones politics.
"Almost 1 in 10 British Citizens live abroad" = More than 9 in 10 British Citizens live in Britain. Same info, different emphasis.

My step dad is anti immigration, he lives in france and doesn't speak french. My mum was recently moaning about not getting the winter fuel allowance as she needs it more than most, what with living in a 500 year old drafty farm house. In france.

Both return to UK when ill for "free health care"

So 4.2 million foreign nationals in the UK with population 62 million is about 6%
5.5million British overseas with a global population of 7.2 Billion is less than 0.1%
??

None of the ex pats are avoiding tax in UK I'm certain.

Note that says [b]British Citizens[/b]

that doesn't necessarily correlate with emigrants

In fact you don't need to have ever set foot in Britain to qualify for Citizenship!

Damm Emmigrants

Belgium?

So 4.2 million foreign nationals in the UK with population 62 million is about 6%

So about the same percentage as Brits living in Australia then. (5.9% of total population)

5.5million British overseas with a global population of 7.2 Billion is less than 0.1%

Not sure what global population has to do with anything ?

100% of all Nationalities live on Earth.

100% of all Nationalities live on Earth

Space station? 🙂

How long do you need to be 'resident' somewhere else to become a statistic?

Space station?

Workplace.

Travelling on business.

Still employed in home nation

Etc etc etc 😉

Well, I think its fair to say that Australia is swamped with immigrants! 😉

(and New Zealand, The US, Canada...)

I employ:

2 Romanians
3 Bulgarians
4 Spaniards
1 Lithuanian
1 Portuguese
1 Tanzanian

Bloody layabouts the lot of them 🙂

I wouldn't imagine your electoral roll letter being posted to the space station, so probably need an address your postie can get to.

For some reason the TV was on ITV last night

The perfect STW post 🙂

The TUC poster makes the statement:
"5.5 million British abroad compared to 4.2 million foreign nationals in England and Wales"
But comparing numbers in this like for like way is not indicative of anything. 4.2 million people in the UK is a significant proportion of the population. 5.5 million Britons outside the UK is a spit in the ocean.

Australia has a large number of British residents due to the history of Australia.

Well it is comparing migration inwards with migration outwards, it is clearly fair to compare the two like for like, especially against the backdrop of fearmongering.

Why is our population increasing if we are all buggering off?
Since I left school its gone up 4 million.
I can't imagine its due to indigenous people breeding more.

How will the couriers deliver to the space station? We tried to deliver this afternoon but you weren't in , haveleft your parcel on the moon. Daily Wail would have a field day.
The quoted figures do appear to show that there's only a small net gain in population from immigration. In my job I work alongside immigrants from several countries none of whom are on benefits.

4.2 million people in the UK is a significant proportion of the population. 5.5 million Britons outside the UK is a spit in the ocean.

How will the couriers deliver to the space station?

Offshore the job to the Indians and Chinese like everything else 😆

MSP - you have a point but it (the poster) is not quite doing that. Perhaps it should and start with using net migration statistics (widely available) and we are about a net 2 gains for every 1000 inhabitants which hardly stands out either way. In fact we have only just returned to net positive migration after two years of the opposite. Mostly coming from China, India, Poland US and Aus. Not quite what the papers would have you believe!!!

Then there is the odd policy if Cameron calling for an absolute cap (not a pefcentage or even a net figure) by 2015 when the UK needs to have positive net migration to offset our demographic trends. Very odd policy, but then the politics of immigration gets very confused.

The issue surely is the extent of immigration/emmigration over a more relevant period i.e. shorter. Common sense would suggest we need the infrastructure in place to cope as that seems to be the main bone of contention for the majority. History shows both have positive benefits but the rate of either is a major issue.

Yes immigration is going to knacker the country, and is already having a massive affect where I live and work, I bet the most of you live away from it all in the country side with your big posh houses and cars,and I bet the most of you are employers too.....but it will catch up with you. 🙂

Are you saying that the TUC are not representing your interests then, pussywillow?

I went to Romania a few weeks ago. The plane back to London-Luton was FULL of Romanians! Who'd have thought it eh?

meehaja - Member

My step dad is anti immigration, he lives in france and doesn't speak french. My mum was recently moaning about not getting the winter fuel allowance as she needs it more than most, what with living in a 500 year old drafty farm house. In france.

Both return to UK when ill for "free health care"

fwiw, not that I am particularly in favour of it but health insurance in France is pretty reasonable (as it only needs to pay for GP-level care and the 20% of hospital treatment that is not funded via taxation by the state anyway (incl for EU citizens iirc). Depending on what is wrong and how often they need to seek medical help, they might be financially better off not spending on travel/accommodation and instead insuring themselves and seeking treatment at home in france. Of course that would mean learning to speak some french though!

Too complicated to measure meaningfully, but it would be entertaining to see some sort of measure of brits who learn to speak the language of the country they live in. Seems that the expat stw community does very well at this, but then largely they don't run fish and chip shops in magaluf.
A friend's dad lives in a lovely rural village setting in Italy, hardly speaks a word of Italian (his son and daughter-in-law do but live in UK) but it's all ok as all the neighbours like him so those that know a bit of english to explain stuff to him deal with tradespeople, doctors etc and explain/answer all his post etc for him. 😕

THM - you're into a complex area there, thats for sure!

Of course, one of the big arguments regards unions has been their insistence on playing quasi-national politics rather than represent the interests of their workers

The history of Unions and immigration/minority workers is a long and messy one, for every Grunswick there's a glossed over and forgotten incidence like Dockers walking out on strike in support of Enoch Powell...

Complex and messy ninfan!!!

Not only the contraditictions that cross party politics in the UK but also between the same parties in different countries across Europe. Then there are the founding fathers of the EU who (when pressed) really don't believe in the freedom of movement even though it is one of the three core freedoms that they advocate.

Wonderfully messy!!!!

If you live and work outside the UK, there's not much tax to be paid in the UK.

Not much, but I pay some.

MSP - Member

" ..but I doubt many of them are living on state benefits."

Well I wouldn't want to return to the UK to live on benefits, they are crap compared to what I would get in Germany.

i'm not even sure what kind of benefits i am entitled to despite living in Schermany for the last six years.... being self-employed since leaving college at 18 i've never looked to the state to fund my [s]drug fuelled lifestyle[/s] life.

one of the reasons i ended up moving to Germany was that as a chippy i had a period of three months with next to no work. partly due to the financial melt-down at the end of 2007 and partly due to there being lots of eastern tradesmen willing to work for 60-70 quid a day. i couldn't afford to work for 350 quid a week.

now in Germany i work at the same rates or higher than the "local" lads. no-one likes being undercut.

but some of Britain's greatest figures were foreign... Isambard Kingdom Brunel's old man was from France and a great engineer in his own right.
the birthplace of radio (as the signs say as they welcome you to Chelmsford) was home to Marconi, an Italian/Irish mongrel.

My favourites are the people who rant about "illegal immigrants living here on benefits".

Cue facepalm....

Surely if they're stealing our jobs and benefits they're paying for themselves?

According to last week's Economist, Eastern European immigrants to the UK, "Contribute more to the Treasury in taxes than they take out in benefits - about 35% more, according to a plausible estimate". Why? Because on the whole they're young and here to work hard and make some money.

If you live and work outside the UK, there's not much tax to be paid in the UK.

Not much, but I pay some.

If you don't live in the UK. What tax do you pay here ?

If you don't live in the UK. What tax do you pay here ?

You should keep paying NI if you're planning on retiring/moving back to the UK.

Tekp, exactly. which is why CMD's proposal is so odd especially given our aging population.

Tekp, exactly. which is why CMD's proposal is so odd especially given our aging population.

Only question though, and I am not anti immigrant, what happens when these people get older. Do they return to their native country or do they remain having built up relationships through their working life?

Most working age people pay more than they take out of the system, it is the old and very young who are a drain on services.

MSP - Member

Well maybe you could offer some argument against it, or perhaps you should read the forum rules on trolling.

Statistically, you must have believed in your own assumption hence it must be true for [u][b]you[/b][/u]. <- 😆

I don't mind the immigrants because they will keep price low (wage competition, this is my assumption so it must be true) but when they come over to sleep rough and beg for living, there is something wrong and it does not take the genius news to report it.

😆

chewkw - Member

but when they come over to sleep rough and beg for living, there is something wrong and it does not take the genius news to report it.

You're right, if things at home are bad enough that they'd rather travel to a far off and somewhat hostile country in order to sleep rough and beg for a living, there is something very wrong. We should probably help folks in that sort of situation, eh.

Dropping out of normal life in the UK, sleeping rough and becoming a beggar is something open to all of us, if you believe it's so desirable and cushy why not do it tomorrow?

"illegal immigrants living here on benefits".

Cue facepalm....

not really. Your "facepalm" is as simplistic as the Daily Hate cries you mock. Most illegal immigrants, whether working in the black economy or not, when they do come to the notice of the authorities claim asylum. Once registered with Border Agency and their asylum case is pending, they are prohibited from working (which seems utterly perverse).

I manage a police station custody suite, every week we have illegal immigrants jump out of lorries (we're near a service station that is a natural stop for HGVs driving north from Dover/Portsmouth) and present themselves to the police station in order to claim asylum. In the 2 years I've been in this role the majority through that time have been eastern European, in the last 6-9 months there's been large numbers of north african (Somalia, Eritrea etc).

They obviously get some briefing/feedback from their traffickers or others that have attempted it before; everyone who either is or looks young claims to be 17yrs old. If they are 16yrs, social services place them into foster or other care, if they are 17 they get independent housing, if they are 18 or above (ie. adult) they face the prospect of being held in detention centres. Social workers make age assessments, based on interviews rather than cutting them in half and counting the rings.

Northwind - Member

chewkw - Member

but when they come over to sleep rough and beg for living, there is something wrong and it does not take the genius news to report it.

You're right, if things at home are bad enough that they'd rather travel to a far off and somewhat hostile country in order to sleep rough and beg for a living, there is something very wrong. We should probably help folks in that sort of situation, eh.

Why not help those from China, India, Africa, South America and Asia? Why be so selective about EU only? How about non-EU people? Is it because they are "black"?

Are you being true to yourself? Are you actually a TUC member for being selective with information?

Dropping out of normal life in the UK, sleeping rough and becoming a beggar is something open to all of us, if you believe it's so desirable and cushy why not do it tomorrow?

Have you tried it yourself?

I know once I have £20 to live the entire month in a country where there is no social welfare and the feeling was not good, but you are most welcome to try that.

🙄

You're right, if things at home are bad enough that they'd rather travel to a far off and somewhat hostile country in order to sleep rough and beg for a living, there is something very wrong.

Perhaps that wasn't their plan - remember the tale of Dick Whittington, attracted by the tales of streets paved with gold, ended up sleeping on the streets?

remember the tale of Dick Whittington

Look out Boris !!

ninfan - Member

Perhaps that wasn't their plan - remember the tale of Dick Whittington, attracted by the tales of streets paved with gold, ended up sleeping on the streets?

Don't tell me, tell Chewkw, he thinks they're coming here to fulfil their dreams of being street people

As a Brit abroad (one of the stats in the Oz numbers) I posted the pic really to show Immigration is not a simple issue, most of the stuff shouted about in the papers is based on nothing at all, a load of it is set out to scare people.

It's a debate that needs to be had but also had with a ref to pull people up for spouting crap.

If you don't live in the UK. What tax do you pay here ?

having my pension paid in the UK works out better for me tax wise. Also, ensuring I have enough contributions for my State pension.