OK, I expect that there are a lot of variables in determining it but this is what I want to do in order to fit in with the STW stereotype:
- Remove existing (useless) gas fireplace and power flue
- Replace with wood burning stove (room is around 6m x 3m) - not sure on size needed
- Fit flue though to outside of house (via existing space from power flue?) and up along the side of the house (through the soffit or round it usually?)
So, what sort of numbers am I looking at for this or what else do I need to consider? Any suggestions on people to get to quote (N. Somerset/Bristol)
I'll order the axe and beard once I have it all installed 😉
TIA
If its a liner in an existing chimney a place local to me has an offer on of £1995 all in. Bit more though for the kind of flue you are talking about.
Not sure what quality of stove you get for that money. I think mine was £1200 on its own (multifuel thingy)
Anything from around £3k to £6k depending on the supplier, model of stove, quality of flue installed, ease of access for fitting the flue.
We used Kindle, formerly of Bath and Bristol, now in Saltford.
Was around £5k all in, but that was lining an existing chimney. They are on the pricier side of things, but are well recommended.
Our neighbours are currently having work done by Bath Woodburners which seems similar to what you want - no personal experience of them though.
I did mine for £1000 last year.
We had an open fire, knocked it all out, lined it with cement boards etc, and ran the SS flue from the top of the chimney.
Woodburner was around £300 2nd hand, however, I should have bought new, as I didnt realise the throat plate and other things were missing, so the total cost was around £500, not much cheaper than a brand new one. Flue and fittings around £200, new tiles, vermiculite/lime/sand etc were £250ish again.Other little thinsg added anothe £50-100. Dead easy to do, there are loads of guides online. Dont skimp on the flue liner, get the widest you can fit, or what is recommended for your stove, typically 6".
All well and good if you have the skills and time Alanl but OP wasn't asking how to do it himself 😉
about 1 k if you do it 4-6k if you pay someone
Thanks all. It's a 70s house with no chimney, hence the flue would go up the side of the house.
I've spent the last 18 months thinking about this. We've had few people in to quote (1.5-3K plus hearth and stove) and I've spent quite a bit of time looking at stovefittersmanual.co.uk
It's not rocket science, but there are a lot of ways you can mess up, and a few ways you can mess up badly enough to kill people and/or burn your house down. So there's an understandable appetite for getting the professionals in, and an understandable premium for getting the professionals in.
Some installs will be very simple, and and the guys will make a killing on those, and the ones which end up being tricky might cost them a bit more than average.
But a lot of the possible opportunities for your install being complicated will be immediately obvious, and the rest of them are discoverable with some well considered swipes with an SDS drill and some thinking.
If you're prepared to do some digging around, and you're confident about properly exploring and analyzing the risks of doing the digging and doing the install, you could save quite a chunk of change.
Whether that's worth the time you spend on it is another matter.
hence the flue would go up the side of the house.
So I guess it will be a fancy stainless one then too - which I assume will be more expensive and will need heat shrouding if accessible (health n safety and all that).
Halfway through putting one in. Not far away from you. Quote was £4.5k, 1.5 of that is the stove, and it's an external flue. It's Bath Woodburners as above - they seem pretty professional (so far, touch wood etc).
Also got quotes mendip fireplaces in monkton combe (similar quote to above) and west country woodburners (ridiculous amount quoted).
We've used mendip before a while back on another stove and they were pretty good.
Yep, plenty of scope for things to go wrong if you DIY.
We're looking to fit one in our living room, already one the other side of the wall so hoping that it should be a simple task of knocking through, new lintel this side then new double fronted burner. May need a new flue liner but hopefully the current one should cope.
OP, fwiw, my dad and I fitted an external insulated flue for his oil burner through a porch roof and then through the soffit/roof above. Took us a weekend to fit so shouldn't take the pros too long/cost too much for labour.
If external flue is the way your going then your not restricted by the internal dims of the chimney, so you should have more choice for flue and more importantly burner!
Some installs will be very simple, and and the guys will make a killing on those
Most will be tbh
Install stove on suitable hearth that meets regs and is away from flammable stuff
Exit flue to outside take it high enough
Thats the complexity of this tbh
Its the risk that puts folk off not the complexity.
Barely used Contura stove bought off ebay (in Summer 🙂 ) £400
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Stuff (Good stuff) off the interweb. £250.
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Register plate from local metalworks and installation this weekend by a chimney sweep - £322.
So, £977 all in.
I was quoted nearly £3k for this from a shop in Leeds, with shitty liner.
The industry is a con.
Do you need any kind of planning permission to run a flue up the back of the house?
Having an open plan kitchen/diner/living room extension done early next year and was thinking about a burner where the box goes out the back so would go straight through ceiling then attach to back of house.
So, £977 all in.
Buildings control sign off?
i just paid £899 for stove/hearth/oak beam then £350 for the install, which including tiling - a replacement for the condemned unit, so hole for fireplace already there, 2 man team, took them from 10am until 5pm, they didn't stop at all really
rural lincolnshire
bearnecessities - Member
Barely used Contura stove bought off ebay (in Summer ) £400
Sister has one and it's a really great stove, looks nice as well.
Ebay seems to be ok for ex display, refurbished and 2nd hand (if you have common sense). In April I bid and won a Westfire Uniq35 ex display on ebay for £695, it's £1250 normally and the cheapest I could find it on the internet was £1099. I'd got my heart set on it already, so was thrilled to buy at half price.
Not going to comment on the OP's cost as I've no idea about external flues. However, I'll go along with many posts on here, anywhere from £1000 to £6000 depending on how you play it out, hope that helps.
Don't get ripped off on the chimney:
Size the chimney to the stove requirement, prices here:
http://www.stovesareus.co.uk/chimney-products/twin-wall-chimney-flue-systems.html
Have a good read of this:
http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/
Its not rocket science, just be sure to read Building regs part J
Buildings control sign off?
No. HETAS sweep 🙂
It's not rocket science, but there are a lot of ways you can mess up, and a few ways you can mess up badly enough to kill people and/or burn your house down.
You really have to mess up massively for this to be a real risk.
The industry is a con.
This^ +1.
The whole HETAS thing is a rip off. It's a few days training. Having good general building skills is more important, especially if you are looking at twin wall flue through a roof etc.
A stove is a very simple thing and if your chimney is in good condition then it probably won't need a liner. You can get it checked by a chimney sweep.
Well I will retract my earlier estimate - we have just been recommended a different installer and their prices are massively cheaper for the same installation - helpful, friendly, open and honest too!
I originally had two prices in - one for just over £3k claiming we didn't need a flue, one for just under £4k claiming we absolutely *MUST* have a flue.
This new guy explained why a flue is a good idea, going into detail about how they work but went on to say we didn't have to fit one.
And his price - £2,250 (well, if I went fully like-for-like, he would be £2,500 as the stove he recommends is cheaper than the one we originally wanted).
A stove is a very simple thing and if your chimney is in good condition then it probably won't need a liner.
Which is what he guy said, but went on to explain about how a liner heats more quickly than a chimney and, coupled with the fact the circumference is effectively smaller, the draw is better, meaning a fire lights more easily.
A stove is a very simple thing and if your chimney is in good condition then it probably won't need a liner. You can get it checked by a chimney sweep.
my neighbour took a chimney sweeps advice and did not fit a liner.
first time they lit the fire they filled up their house with smoke, and the house next door.
they had a liner fitted fairly promptly.
£3k'ish
We had ours done in March. Old house we fitted stoves in the front room and kitchen so when we moved into a new house this time last year we wanted another. Modern house so no proper fireplace/flue etc so got the following done:
- remove 'fake' fireplace/hearth/goldfish bowl gas fire & cap off electric and gas
- stone hearth
- Westfire Series 1 stove
- exposed flue going up the inside to the top of the room where it goes through the wall and up an external flue
That was around £3k IIRC including all the plastering etc that needed doing too...
Having done this three times now, my advice:
Don't use a stove installer, use your chimney sweep. He will set it all up properly for ease of sweeping and won't sell you a liner if you don't need one. You will also be at the head of the waiting list for sweeping.
Don't be pushed into having a liner if your flue is good enough.
If you have a choice of stoves, err on the smaller side so you'll be burning it harder and hence cleaner. Nothing looks worse than a massive stove shut down and all smoked up.
Build your log store now.
If you get the chimney breast re-plastered, chip off all the plaster right to the edges and do it all. If you just patch around the aperture it will crack at the join once it all heats up - guess how I know this?
October 2nd I had this old and naff gas fire.
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fire and heath out
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rest of hearth out
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plaster off to see what the brick work is doing
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As i suspected and hoped, a few rough rows of infill bricks and a bit of angle iron, so i can make the opening taller quite easily
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Oops, top 1 and a half brciks came out as well, never mind. the opening is only about 2 foot, so it easily self supports.
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rest of the bricks out
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Angle iron shifted up to new spot
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I called it a day there. Got back on it On Saturday
9m of 904 grade stainless liner 5" diameter, £30/m from stovefittersmanual
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and
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note the rope dangling in the fireplace. I'd just swept the chimney (very VERY messy, clearly it hadn't been swept before the gas fire was fitted, I got a lot of coal soot out, ALOT). Havong gone on the roof (mine is quite easy to get onto) the rods had been used to pull the rope back down. Then with my back up top pulling on the rope, while my (nearly 80 year old dad) pushed on the liner (probably more guiding tbh, but he worked bl00dy hard) after 20 minutes it was in
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that was Saturday done. since then..
register plate made and fitted, liner cut off and fitted to adapter and plate
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constructional hearth extended 50mm to meet building regs. channel chislled out for airbrick tacking air from undr suspended floor
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today i've been pointing the brickwork in the fireplace and replacing the row and a half of infill bricks
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Just on tea break. I need to fetch the stove in next, its sat in the garage...and its heavy. I'll connect it up and smoke test tomorrow, then all being well I'll light it 😀
Diy is quite straightforward if you are sensible and your roof is easy.
Costs
Stove £560 (stovax stockton 5, new, ebay bargain)
flexiliner 8x£30=£240 (i ordered 8, i got a generous 9)
viscous enamel stove pipe a tenner
aluminium plate to make register plate £6
stove pipe to flexi liner adapter errrr £6
sundries of screws and angle iron say a tenner
hanging cowl £65
some fire cement, fire rope, builders sand, ballast, sharp sand, cement another £20
So all in about £900
OH is still to make her mind up on a hearth...that will bump things up a bit
Then for fuel
chainsaw stihl ms180 £170
spare chains £30
chainsaw trousers, gloves, boots and foresters helmet about £100
stihl pro splitting maul (ebay bargain) £35, plus fiskars x27 £35, sledge and 4 wedges £45, mortar pick axe from which i made a pickaroon £10, fuel, 2 stroke oil and bar oil not alot...less than £15 per cord of wood I reckon
storage - pallets are free, couple of tarps for the top of the pile £25
and thinking of getting a 225L plastic storage thing for right outside the back door for the weeks worth of easy grab wood, £25
So wood prep and storage about £500. I've 3 years worth in. At london prices I've paid for the stove and the fitting stuff once that lot is burnt, another couple of years would pay for the saw, splitting tools and ppe
forgot to cost CO alarm, nose cone to pull liner though and the chimney notice plate, so add another £20
Oh and stove fan at £30, stove thermometer £5, companion set £10, large steel ash bucket £10.
Buildings regs approval? It's a notifiable job.
Great work Neil, and as a namby pamby paranoid git, I'd echo what Jam bo says.
Currently cooking a chilli on mine - I am such a bloody fanboi now it's pathetic 🙂
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OH is still to make her mind up on a hearth...that will bump things up a bit
Don't know where you are and whether it's any use to you, but Hoyland Reclaimation off j36 M1 (Barnsley) do lots of, at various sizes and finishes, cut to your dimensions, whilst you wait. I went for polished black limestone, they also have natural finishes and other stone. they're reasonable prices, my polished 2200x900 custom cut was £300, natural finish is cheaper.
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cheers banana. I'm currently looking at mandarinstone.com various granite, limestone, travatine etc sabs at 900mm or 1200m m for arond £40 or 50 quid. I'll get the angle grinder to that and fit it myself.
Bear/jambo, not trying to argue here, honest question. I've been reading Part J and the HETAS website. I'm uming and ahing on notifing council, but as I currently understand it so please point out if you think im wrong, it isn't notifiable. I'm totally confident i comply with part J, and more than that I'm obsessed with making this safe and as comfy as possible (hence the air brick channel across the hearth on a 5Kw stove). However I don't see anything I've done as notifiable, what have I missed? Just for info, happy to notfy abd certficate if required. I rewired he whole house and got that signed off.....bit scary but went fine....this is a dodle compared to that.
Oh and , 'Cook on Bear!' 😀 😀
Oh and could I be any more STW? while at work today I had a lamb and veg curry going in the slow cooker 😀 and I've not ridden a bike in ages 😥
It's what I was told when I spoke to some builder mates. Notifiable work, but hetas qualified installers can self certify.
See here:
[i]In the UK installations of wood burning stoves and multi fuel stoves, even if only a simple stove replacement in an existing flue system, are subject to the requirements of local building regulations and by law are notifiable to your local authority Building Control department. Once the appropriate fee has been paid and the installation is inspected, the Building Control Officer will issue the appropriate compliance certificate. Hetas registered installers can self-certicate their work thus avoiding the need for costly and time-consuming building notice applications.[/i]
https://www.thestoveyard.com/-stove-installation-advice/installation-regulations
Cheers Jambo. Once I've got the hearth in I'll probably ring and check, if it needs sign off then add the inspection fee too.
llama - MemberHalfway through putting one in. Not far away from you. Quote was £4.5k, 1.5 of that is the stove, and it's an external flue. It's Bath Woodburners as above - they seem pretty professional (so far, touch wood etc).
Also got quotes mendip fireplaces in monkton combe (similar quote to above) and west country woodburners (ridiculous amount quoted).
We've used mendip before a while back on another stove and they were pretty good.
Are you my neighbour?
neilnevill - MemberCheers Jambo. Once I've got the hearth in I'll probably ring and check, if it needs sign off then add the inspection fee too.
It does need sign off, fact.
Btw, you may want to ring your LA building control before doing much more as apparently (according to the internet) some want to visit before and after fire in situ (assume to check flue etc). Leeds don't, but just in case - you don't want to lift it back out again!
I put mine in for a couple of hundred - ok its a gas burning fake woodburner but its the same sort of settup.
Oh I know how heavy it is bear. It took me 15 minutes to shift it from the garage and into the house a few steps at a time then a rest! Its been in, out again and finally in today.
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It will need to come out again to fit the hearth anyway.
Smoke test was eventful. first did the appliance leak test, so all vents shut, smoke pellet in. pass, no smoke leaks. then do the chimney draw test, so open the vents, shut all windows and doors to the room, shove pellet in and see it draws, open a window to check it doesn't speed up (indicating lack of ventilation). passed even with a cold flue. Now, since I have an open plan house I then have to repeat that test with the bathroom, cloakroom and kitchen extractor fans on, and doors between fans and stove open. It initally looked to be passing, smoke was coming out the chimney but then flow reversed and billowed out the airwash and primary air control into the lounge. Poo. Ok, do it again after warming the flue with a blow torch for 2 minutes, passed. Just to be sure I repeated it again, passed again. So its good to go once I get a battery in the CO alarm, However being a belt and braces kind of guy I'm going to stick another airbrick in the kitchen ...it is the large kitchen extractor fan which is open plan with the lounge that was the problem so let's help that bit of the house get its fresh air.
Yeah, you've got to get the cold air out of the flue first of all with a small fire. That's to be expected from any install.
Sounds like you're going well OTT with precautions; good work 😀
Building control will want to see a smoke test on that before full install. I'd stick a building notice in pretty soon.
Looks like a tidy job, mind. What's the specified air gap to the side for that stove? I assume it's bigger than 5kw because of the additional ventilation.
Yeah I guess your right bear, I was just being too lazy to fetch the blow torch and from feeling the draw at the end of the flue with my hand I knew it was good and thought it would pass the test cold, which it did for the first version, the extractor fan was too much though.
martin, no its only 5Kw. I was always nervous the kitchen extractor may cause an issue as its not far away and is a biggy over an 8 burner hob (just visible in the photo with the liner extending down the hallway). So i thought I'd stick the airbrick in to the hearth while easy to do, rather than fit the decorative hearth and then find I had a ventilation issue. I'm almost certainly going way OTT with the airbricks, but then again in a way all I'm doing is reopening airbricks that previous owners have blocked up. The house was built with fires in every room more or less, so the airbricks were needed back then, but I guess when it got central heating a previous owner has blocked over several of the airbricks, I'm opening them again, but putting one in the hearth should avoid annoying drafts across the room.
Air gap is, err 50mm to each side iirc. I'm only just there...a mm or 3 short if I measure to the bits of brick that stick out a wee bit more. Its why the fireplace is left as just brick even though its only old fletons, not well/neatly bricked and not well pointed (they were never intended to be on show when the brickie built this house in 1936). Its not a particularly pretty bit of brickwork but I din't want to start doing structural work to narrow the jams and widen the opening. I've set the stove with a larger gap behind of 75mm, but still far enough back to have the flue straight up from the top exit.
Good lord, I just looked up the building control application fee on Croydon's website, and nearly fell off the sofa! After VAT it looks like £216. wowzers. I hope OH likes one of the cheaper hearths.
That stove looks a bit tight in that opening - won't you lose loads of radiated heat straight into the surrounds? I thought more space was needed for air flow???
You work with what you've got. More clearance would be nice but its not a big deal, I know from my parent's experience, their stove (franco belge belfort 4.5Kw) is more tightly installed, it still heats the room (a bigger room than mine) very well indeed. Stovax recommended minimum clearances to allow installation and for convection/good operation are just 25mm to the rear,50mm to the sides and 100mm above. I've just got the minimum to the sides, 75mm to the rear and 380mm above, so it will be fine. I wanted plenty of space above so I could use a stove fan, that's why I raised the opening. With a fan to aid convection the heat will come out into the room nicely I'm sure
I just looked up the building control application fee on Croydon's website, and nearly fell off the sofa! After VAT it looks like £216
The only other issue is whether you're in a smoke control zone. I've got the Stockton 5 and was 'required' to fit the adapter which stops you shutting down the burner vents completely. BC may well want to see that in place to sign it off.
Yes I am, and I have the smoke control kit bought and fitted, I included the cost of that in the total for the stove (it was £40 for the smoke control kit)
Thinking about it I'd expect they should sign off on a non-approved stove or one without a smoke kit as long as you has the multifuel/coal grate as you could legally burn smokeless coal, however I'm going to be using wood so I got the smoke control kit.
Having checked the building control website the drop down menu for 'type pf work' didn't include wood burning stove, the closest seemed to be 'boiler installation or unvented HW tank'. So before paying £216 and maybe getting the wrong fee I phoned to check. Yes that is the right fee, and I asked about when inspections were required and he confirmed it just final commissioning/smoke testing. Phew. So fingers crossed OH will choose some stone for the hearth soon, and it won't be long before I get that in and we are all done other than the chimney notice plate that is purchased and in the post, and the CO alarm I just returned from Wickes with needs putting up.
BTW, can anybody advise on how hard fire cement goes and how easy it is to clean off to reapply? I'll need to lift the viscous enamelled stove pipe off the stove to slide the stove out and fit the hearth. Doing so will break the fire cement seal at the stove collar and at the stove pipe to flexi liner adaptor, so I'll need to clean the fire cement off these 2 joins and reapply as the stove goes back in. My dad is nervous the fire cement could go really hard making all this very difficult and reckons i shouldn't light the stove until its all done and in for the final time. I'm keen to light the stove as its getting colder and my OH is not to be rushed on interior design stuff, so it could be a while before she is happy with her decision on the hearth. Anybody able to advise?