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Long story I'll try and keep it brief.
In November I purchased a Amplifi Router and Draytek Vigor 130 Modem. I had problems pretty much from the beginning. Basically the internet connection not stable or reliable.
I spent a LONG time trying to isolate the problem. Talking to Amplifi support, BT line checking etc etc and even after 6 months Scan who I purchase the kit from took it back, returned to Manufacturer and no fault found.
It basically took me buying a 2nd hand router and a 2nd hand Openreach modem to realise it was the Draytek modem that wasn't working properly.
It got returned to Draytek via Scan a 2nd time, no fault found but internals replaced and it doesn't work at all now.
As far as Scan are concerned it's not faulty. I've just got off the phone with them, escalated to manager. He told me to sell it privately, should have done my research before buying the product as obviously not compatible with my line (it's a VDSL modem supposedly compatible with BT ffs).
I'm spitting a bit at the moment. He wouldn't allow me to escalate further. So I've got a 80 quid bookend.
I've looked at Consumer Rights. Scan kept quibbling saying no fault found so it ain't faulty. I was pointing out it should be fit for the purpose supplied for, which it ain't. But no joy.
Worth one more email / letter. Or write the money off. Life's too short and I've wasted too much time / emotion on it already.
I bought most of my PC components from Scan but generally they are rather good but never bought a modem from them.
Worth one more email / letter. Or write the money off. Life’s too short and I’ve wasted too much time / emotion on it already.
Worth another go then leave it after that coz it can be a pain.
He told me to sell it privately, should have done my research before buying the product as obviously not compatible with my line (it’s a VDSL modem supposedly compatible with BT ffs).
Weird suggestion by the manager as you will get hassle if you sell it and someone complains that it does work.
Surely all VDSL modem should work with all ISP?
Sorry no help from me but if you consider another VDSL modem then you might want to consider this ...
I have just recently got my broadband internet & phone line from IDNet. Good customer service. Line stable etc.
My VDSL modem is FRITZ! Box 7530 (from Amazon but not cheap at £135, there is another more expensive version 7590). I use a microfilter for modem and digital phone via 10m BT phone socket extension. Set up was easy by following the instruction and wizard. If you are using FRITZ! Box just remember to type in the VLAN code and you should be fine. Everything just set to Auto (you can customise it later if you wish, which I haven't for now ... ).
There is another thread where someone says Zen ISP provides FRITZ! Box for FREE! I was thinking of signing up with ZEN but the landline call to overseas is expensive so decided to go for IDNet. Old folks back home is on landline ...
How did you pay for it? Complain to your credit card company?
Your rights apply up to 6 years, but it's up to you to prove the fault after 6 months. However while the contract is with the retailer, you can go via the manufacturer if you are having no luck with the retailer.
Tricky though with IT gadgets as can be so many factors as to why something doesn't work. Could be the DrayTek modem hasn't quite got the right settings for the ISP (is it BT or just an ISP via a BT line, and I assume it's standard BT FTTC?).
Looking at DreyTek info on the modem, does say "ADSL & VDSL Parameters pre-set for UK ISPs (adjustable)".
It it "adjusted"? (however that works).
Question though is why not just use a BT Openreach in the first place? I was just given one on upgrading to FTTC with PlusNet to go with their router. BT provided it. The Openreach guys came and set that up and left me to it with PlusNet's router saying it's nothing to do with them.
Oh ya ... I got the Openreach guy installed a new socket in the flat (in the Kitchen! Hence the 10m socket extension cord) as the previous refurbishment cut off the line. Openreach guy told me he was unable to drill holes in the wall any more due to complaints ...
From memory my Draytek Vigor 130 needed a tad of fettling on the GUI interface before I plugged it into the router. This makes it pass the ISP login duties to the router and then off you go.
I can't remember what I did as it's been a while and you only do it the once. It's not helped by the detailed user manual being online only and requiring a login to get to but it is in there.
He told me to sell it privately, should have done my research before buying the product as obviously not compatible with my line (it’s a VDSL modem supposedly compatible with BT ffs).
Weird suggestion by the manager as you will get hassle if you sell it and someone complains that it does work.
I know - I'm not selling something on that I know doesn't work. I think this is probably the mindset if you buy some obscure PC component that ends up being incompatible - not faulty.
Surely all VDSL modem should work with all ISP?
Well that's what you'd expect. On Scan's website "The Vigor 130 provides compatibility with all current UK VDSL/ADSL technologies; it has been extensively tested and tuned to provide a robust and reliable DSL connection." I think that's my point. It doesn't have to be faulty just work as described.
Your rights apply up to 6 years, but it’s up to you to prove the fault after 6 months.
Yeh. That's my mine reservation. The Scan support suggests you contact Manufacturer's, RTFM etc etc and as the problem was intermittent it took me ages just to be sure myself it wasn't the line or something else. The only thing I have is evidence of support emails to the Router manufacturer requesting they investigate the logs within weeks of getting the kit. They replied to say it was the PPPoE connection so I went off assuming it was BT not the Modem (Draytek is good kit right?!)
Tricky though with IT gadgets as can be so many factors as to why something doesn’t work. Could be the DrayTek modem hasn’t quite got the right settings for the ISP (is it BT or just an ISP via a BT line, and I assume it’s standard BT FTTC?).
Looking at DreyTek info on the modem, does say “ADSL & VDSL Parameters pre-set for UK ISPs (adjustable)”.
Yep it's a standard BT Infinity FTTC. I've been in touch with Draytek numerous times flashing and deep resetting the modem. Nothing sorts its. Very few settings to change in Bridge mode and nothing recommended by Draytek.
Question though is why not just use a BT Openreach in the first place?
Ha, yeh good point. Basically the Homehub was not so reliable on the Home network side of things. Got a lot of stuff connected, Sonos, Phones, Tablets, Sky, couple of things wired up like NAS, PC etc. Stuff just kept falling off the home network. Forever rebooting NAS, Sonos etc. All a bit ironic that the Homehub was rock solid on the internet just the home network was hopeless.
Anyway I've written a letter quoting the above and requesting a refund under the CRA 2015. I've did pay by Paypal so I guess that's a last resort.
They replied to say it was the PPPoE connection so I went off assuming it was BT not the Modem (Draytek is good kit right?!)
Just below PPPoE connection do you have the VLAN code that you need to type in?
When I first tried to go on the net it worked for a while but after one minute or two it kept giving me warnings as I forgot to type in VLAN code. Try ask your ISP for VLAN code to see if that works.
You should have a VLAN code.
Below VLAN code you will have two other codes but they are for ADSL so no needed as I was told by my ISP.
Yeh cheers. I think the VLAN is just for the PPPoA side which I beleive 101 is the BT setting. My understanding is the bridge mode on the modem should just pass the PPP session through blindly. PPPoA on DSL side PPPoE on PC side.
Currently accessing with PC and PPPoE connection directly to internet with Wireshark running, let's catch this connection drop out now while I am logging.
That'll show em. Or maybe I need to get a life.
It got returned to Draytek via Scan a 2nd time, no fault found but internals replaced and it doesn’t work at all now.
This being the case, it's demonstrably faulty now even if they couldn't find anything wrong with it before, no?
This being the case, it’s demonstrably faulty now even if they couldn’t find anything wrong with it before, no?
Absolutely. Their stance was if Draytek have tested it and no fault found then they couldn't do anything unless I came to them with further information (when I asked them what they didn't answer). Then we went down the whole perhaps I should have checked it was compatible conversation which enraged me even more.
The website says it should work with BT out of the box. Draytek say it's BT certified. The bumph says it gives the best and most stable VDSL connection yet in my experience it needed rebooting between every 2 and 48 hours. It got into a very hair splitting conversation where I was challenged on the difference between faulty and not compatible. My point was it doesn't work reliably, never has worked reliably, I've done everything they've asked to resolve it which has taken more than the CRA 2015 6 months so I should get a refund regardless.
Letter written I'll post it to the MD to arrive Monday.
On the six month thing,
Did you report a fault within six months? Because if you did then any subsequent time passed is an irrelevance. It's Scan's responsibility to resolve and what Draytek may or may not say is their problem not yours.
If they're selling a modem in the UK and their argument is that it's not compatible with BT lines then it's demonstrably not fit for purpose. I'd be wanting them to confirm that in writing.
I like Scan, I've used them a lot over the years, but one big advantage for me is that being in Bolton they're within kicking distance. I had a run-in with their customer services, oh, 20 years ago now, over a bulk buy of a dozen high-end workstations for work which weren't fit for purpose. They gave me the runaround for days over the phone, when I turned up on their doorstep they capitulated so fast I almost got hit by shrapnel.
That's the one thing. I didn't report a fault to Scan within 6 months. It was a few days out.
But as their website states please consult all necessary support avenues, RTFM, talk to the manufacturers support lines but in my case were Amplifi support and BT (I didn't suspect the modem until I finally bought a 2nd hand router and the fault was still present).
BUT I have email correspondence with Amplifi and support tickets. This is my evidence that there was a fault it just took over 6 months to identify which component was the problem.
It was very intermittent to start with and has got worse over time, and I had to buy another router before I realised it was the modem.
Just checked my maths. I initially reported a fault with either the Router or Modem within 6 months. I didn't identify it as the modem until after 6 months. Oooosh.
Sounds like you're good to me.
Yes thank you. Good to just sound it out.
So you sent one back to scan who said there was no fault but replaced the internals? Why would they do this?
The second time the modem went back to Draytek when I asked Draytek what they found they told me:
The service centre fully tested the returned unit and was unable to
reproduce the issue of PPPoE disconnecting. Although no fault was
reproduced the internal hardware has been replaced anyway. This has
been loaded with the latest firmware and also tested before being
returned.
I did a quick google and I see lots and lots of people having similar issues. Unusual for a draytek device but maybe the 130 is a lemon 🙁
Yes done that. Loadsa people moaning about them on the BT forums. Must be something to do with the DSLAM config at specific cabs I guess. Shame as you read all the bumph and it's 100% compatible with BT/Openreach. And Draytek is good stuff right which is why I never suspected the modem initially. But maybe it ain't all that.
I’ll add my very recent experience, in so far as I am just about to return a nearly 6 month old TP-Link 2800 modem router following its total failure the other day.
I originally bought one through Amazon in January but found its WiFi connectivity to be erratic/unstable, so one phone call and they swapped it out, like for like after 6 weeks. The replacement worked fine until a couple of months ago, when the WiFi started to play up again and only a switch off, disconnect power supply and reboot would get the WiFi back up and connected. I was just about to call Amazon again when...
Following a thunderstorm the other morning and a power outage, the modem router, along with my central heating programmer went kaput. One phone call to Amazon tech support later and I’m sending back the router with no quibbles and they offered replacement or refund. At about £180, I’ve gone for the refund having lost faith with this TP-Link model x 2 and the previous TP-Link router I had prior to that, and now looking for a stable WiFi modem router, which from some internet reading, seems like a big ask. Except apparently for Draytek... Specifically the 2762 series.
My slight concern is that I’m not all that tech literate, I know enough to be dangerous. The TP-Link admin pages were just about easy and intuitive enough for me to set access controls by MAC address for slack jr, to ensure he wasn’t going to be on his PS4 et al all night or instead of revising for his recently done gcse’s. Now they are out of the way, my perceived need for going through that rigmarole is significantly lessened so I’m not too bothered that the Draytek UI seems quite complicated for a non tech home user like myself.
I suppose, my point being is that from reading the above posts, sometimes being too tech minded isn’t an advantage, just phone the supplier up within the first years’ warranty period and tell them it’s stopped doing what it’s meant to do and tell them you’re sending it back.
Or am I being too simplistic?
No I don't think you are.
In retrospect I should have rejected it when it played up. It would have been within the no quibble return time.
So as you say. I was a bit too techy and tried to get to the bottom of the problem which took a long time.
That said who knows what Scan's returns are like within those timeframes?
Amazon have always been great. I've had phones go wrong after a year, other stuff it just gets refunded / exchanged no quibble regardless of the timeframe. For a lot of kit now I'll buy from Amazon even if they aren't the cheapest as I know the return will be painless if the kit breaks.
Scan on the other hand will not let me have any kind of refund as in their words 'too much time has passed'. Regardless of what my Consumer Rights are.
Is it worth considering a Small Claim court filing against them with a product not fit for purpose ?
I'm unsure of what the costs and procedures are nowadays but worked easily enough for me in a similar case a few (well 15) years ago.
So a bit early for that yet.
I've written a letter to the MD. Just setting out the facts and why it should be refunded under CRA. Let's see what that does.
Next step would be retail ombudsman then MCOL. If I've got the energy. Was discussing this with my wife over the weekend. I don't want this turning into an all consuming emotional process. That said there's a small bit of me that just feels it's about the principle. They may have fobbed other people off but not me. The letter went in the post today let's see what happens.
So letter to MD was delivered yesterday (sent it signed for). No response to that yet.
I also put a less than shining review on Trustpilot last night. That got an immediate response asking for my order details so my complaint can be investigated.
Reading the reviews it does appear Scan are OK unless there is a problem / fault with the purchase when things can get difficult.
Another alarm is I plugged them into the retail ombudsman Alternative Dispute website and I got a message saying something like 'The retailer that you have entered is in our database but on previous claims has refused to co-operate with us. Therefore, we are unable to take your claim forward at this stage.'.
Not encouraging.
did you pay with amex? they have a refund guarantee if so.. https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/benefits/service-security/safety-fraud/how-amex-protects-you/purchase-protection/
Unfortunately not. It was Paypal but I can't raise a dispute after 6 months from what I can tell.
You couldn't make this up...
I can fully understand your frustrations in this matter, However as this has been repaired / components replaced this is not our stock which as you will know from the laws that you are quoting does need to be dealt with by the manufacture as the product you have is not the one we sold you.
Complete BS.
Well they finally agreed to a refund.
Hurrah! That could have been a lot easier but anyway... Buy from Scan at your own risk.