Fine, you're happy with the official explanation, given what you've read/been presented with.Others aren't. Hardly surprising, given the circumstances, but no need for getting aggro about it, on either side.
Most of the truthers have a tendency to parrot the same 1 or 2 "engineers" so it seems like there's a groundswell of people backing them up (the "look how many people think the same" method of proof) but in reality when you read what they write there is no peer review of the debunking of the more official theories. When you ask one of them to provide something that's got some proper process and credentials attached to it they say that's not their job to prove that their debunking is correct, it's the people who believe that it is incorrect to debunk the debunk. And then when a properly qualified person says that, they usually say he's in the pay of "them".
I've had a few conversations with people who are either out and out truthers or closet ones and they usually all go the same way. The feeling that the "system" is lying to them is so deeply ingrained that they can't accept other possibilities and things that support their concepts are sacred. The same can be said for a lot of people/things of course.
Okay another CT: Utility companies keep the clocks changing
Nearly every home has energy saving light bulbs now 🙂
Okay another CT: Utility companies keep the clocks changing
Nearly every home has energy saving light bulbs now
Eh ?
Have you missed out a few words in there ?
But that makes them inadmissable, because it's only loonies on there and you can't be a proper scientist and a loony, can you?
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> Either that or he got bored, or bannedThe latter. He says he "can no longer enjoy the comforting, loving support I normally receive!"
Wait, did kaesae get banned?? 😥
It's possible.
He does seem to have disappeared.
Prof Heinz Wolff isn't a looney ? or even particularly strange. Quite the opposite when I met him he seemed very leveled headed, finding practical everyday solutions to help the disabled with their daily lives.
Klunk, you have no idea how disappointing that is. Not the worthwhile work bit, just the image bonkers professor beanz being normal.
Thanks you've ruined my day
The ulcer/virus things is a good point.
The difference between science and conspiracy theories is that science is driven by repeatable experiments. It takes time, money and persistence to show you did the experiment right.
Consider the science of "Cold Fusion" - err not repeatable by various independent teams, you messed-up the experiment so forget it. The conspiracy is, that the oil companies covered-up the "true" result by bribing the all experimenters, that Cold Fusion actually works*
* conspiracy made up on-the-spot by me
Mayan prophecy is on't telly at the mo
Running out of 2012 though, no doubt they'll all switch to the "2012 is just the start camp"
All in the same ball park with conspiracy theories for me
Well, the exciting conspiracies anyway.
Price fixing among major businesses don't count, only interested in proper mental conspiracies
Jehovah's Witnesses all believe in pre ordained conspiracies, then there is a revision after the latest apocalypse fails to materialise, and the process starts again--
He's back! The prophet returns. Rejoice his children. Rejoice!
was he risen after 3 days?
all hail the messiah, or is that heil...
Sorry. My fault. I looked in a mirror and said 'Kaesae' 3 times.
what were you doing with your hands whilst saying this and were you dressed?
OH and mail me re a bike for the pootle
OH and mail me re a bike for the pootle
Awww nutz. Sorry JY, I meant to email you. I gone knackered meself at the moment, so can't get to the Pootle this time. Cheers for the offer, although, I think a med might have been a bit on the large side, what with me being a hobbit, an all. If anything does change between now and the weekend, I will give you a shout.
Edit: Oh, and I was bollock naked.
As we speak all over the world there are individuals who are waking up! They are starting to ask questions? but more importantly they are demanding by their own actions to be allowed to make up their minds independently from the fabricated reality the media promotes and societal norms enforce.
You have the right to question everything and to seek answers for yourselves, regardless of how much abuse or ridicule society applies to you for doing so, but the truth will only exist for you, if you choose to claim that right to question.
They are starting to ask questions?
Is that a question or a statement?
My hard tail is a small - 16 " but i guess it depends what we are measuring 😉
Get well soon
You have the right to question everything and to seek answers for yourselves
Excellent, I'll get over to YouTube for some totally unverifiable answers pronto
Oh, and some folk had some questions for you about some frames
My hard tail is a small - 16 " but i guess it depends what we are measuring
Just nursing a couple of injuries that would take the gloss off the whole shebang, which needs to be glossy if I am driving 4hrs there and back to do it.
Oh, and some folk had some questions for you about some frames
HE has answered! For yea, he spaketh thusly.
You have the right to question everything and to seek answers for yourselves, regardless of how much abuse or ridicule society applies to you for doing so, but the truth will only exist for you,
HTH
As we speak all over the world there are individuals who are waking up!
Probably mostly on the East coast of Australia though.
Or they're on night shift
Good point well made.
(Have you got a YouTube video to back it up though, otherwise it's not "evidence" )
WAKE UP AUSTRALIA!
I've just had a look and this nutcase has been trolling the forum for 2 years. Seriously, in the great banning of summer 2012, somehow he's survived? What on earth does he add to the forum. Mods?
[quote=nealglover ]Good point well made.
(Have you got a YouTube video to back it up though, otherwise it's not "evidence" )
Does this count??
Does this count??
It most certainly does.
Top debating skills.
I concede 🙂
Tradition has it there will be a fierce post shortly, of such vitriolic diatribe that we shall all be forced to bow and be enlightened.
Will it be like the 15th post down on this page ?
Loads of words but no content.
Seriously, in the great banning of summer 2012, somehow he's survived?
As mentioned earlier He was banned for 80 years by the heathen mods, shortly after He joined.
But nay, He shall not be silenced and He did rise above them. Most verily. 😀
Have anyone heard of the builderberg group meeting? They are pretty scary.
What's scary about it ?
Have anyone heard of the builderberg group meeting? They are pretty scary.
Yep. Part of the shadowy Project Build It no doubt.
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No where near as eco friendly iirc
Lance armstrong took drugs.
And he didn't really go to the moon.
It was a soundstage on Mars.
Wake up sheeple!
This great man sacrificed his life to give the world a warning and he was murdered for doing so. His murder was then blamed on a man who could hardly fire a rifle and it was claimed that far fewer shots were fired than actually were. We now know that this was a lie and that lie was part of a cover up or conspiracy!
To those of you who mock anyone who says there are conspiracies, are you suggesting this speech is about Lee Harvey Oswald ❓
How can you sacrifice your life and then be murdered? Surely its one or the other.
Also I do not believe that the conspiracy has been proven has it!
[quote=pingu66 ]How can you sacrifice your life and then be murdered? Surely its one or the other.
Also I do not believe that the conspiracy has been proven has it!
If it had been proven, it wouldn't be a conspiracy. Keep up at the back!
Anyway - he's not the only dead Kennedy.
We now know that this was a lie and that lie was part of a cover up or conspiracy!
If you count Kevin Costner as a reliable source of information.
Then I suppose we do know yes.
If a leader of a country does something that he knows will more likely than not cost him his life because he believes in freedom, that is to me sacrifice.
Sacrifice
the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim.
Ah - sacrifice...
fanks druidh!
you is rockin toonite 8)
My point exactly, if it was a conspiracy, and had been proven then the theory is upheld.
Unfortunately the theory has not been proven. As nealglover states that is unless we believe Mr Costner.
Similarly with all the 9/11 theories there is not a single coherent theory against what is reported to have happened. There are several conflicting theories some of which may be possible however no conclusive proof that anything other than the reported events happened.
Sometimes we have to accept what we are told, not everyone is lying to us all of the time.
No we do not have to accept that we are not allowed the truth, what was said about the JFK assassination was a lie, just like what was said about 9/11 was a lie.
If the facts do not verify what we are being told then more questions must be asked, if the more questions we ask the less sense what we are being told makes, how can any sensible person then turn around and say that proves there are no conspiracies?
No conclusive proof, except for the videos of the day and all of the evidence presented by countless investigators.
The only way you can claim there is no proof or evidence is to close your minds to everything that you are unable or unwilling to accept!
There is enough evidence to prove that the multiple shots by Lee Harvey Oswald from the book depository is a crock, you just have to watch the [URL=
movie to disprove that.
That there was, probably still is a conspiracy of forces from the Industrial Military combine, behind events leading to Kennedys death and subsequent events that put Bush in place for the Gulf episodes.
I would be surprised in fact if it could be proven there wasn't such a conspiracy with the immense sums involved.
Thanks for posting that Radio broadcast, I hadn't heard that, even more compelling than the more commonly held view that he was about to pull the 'advisors' out of Vietnam as a reason for his assassination.
igrf that's not a very good copy of the Zapruder film, there are much better ones. Just type in Zapruder Film Close up Stable(HIGH QUALITY) to youtube, you might want to take that film off or at least warn people of it's extreme and brutal nature!
However it does emphasize that the official tale of events is false, the question then becomes if amateur investigators can uncover this truth, then why is it that the US government cannot?
The simple fact is that this has too have been covered up by the government and that confirms what JFK is saying!
There are no 'good' quality copies of the movie it was a standard 8mm amateur film that only saw the light of day much later, but it shows the two directions the shots came, and the trajectory imbalance for the single shooter official explanation. It has only been with the benefit of the internet, that the film has had wider distribution.
The internet has been a great tool for the truth in terms of helping people to look at things from a different perspective and do their own research into subjects.
There are no good copies but there are ones that are clearer to see than others.
As for the speech that Kennedy gave, I'm glad you liked it I feel that it doesn't get anywhere near as much attention as it should, like all to many other things these days!
Do you use any of the alternative take on reality channels / websites?
kaesae - Member
The internet has been a great tool for the truth in terms of helping people to look at things from a different perspective and do their own research into subjects.There are no good copies but there are ones that are clearer to see than others.
As for the speech that Kennedy gave, I'm glad you liked it I feel that it doesn't get anywhere near as much attention as it should, like all to many other things these days!
Do you use any of the alternative take on reality channels / websites?
No, not really, I'll google about if I get a particular bee in my bonnet, Kennedy is one and Princess Di the other, both for separate reasons I continue to have my doubts that the 'official' reason given was anywhere near the truth.
My first job was a journalist in the sixties and even at my lowly level the number of stories we had to drop because of inteference either by the owner of the paper, or the local government that was involved in wage fixing, the police or the armed forces who's PR department were strong enough to put pressure on our local paper, left me with a pretty cynical outlook on life generally, so I've chosen to spend as much time living and working'off the grid.
The media is owned and controlled by the same people that own the global banking system and control most sectors from the arms trade to the pharmaceutical corporations.
Anyone that thinks the media reports the truth is just mad, but since all most people have ever known is the TV and media. They are simply not able to understand the hold or influence it has over them.
We are in a very bad situation globally and seem to think that bombing other countries and war is the way out of the recession.
The way out of the recession is to remove those influences that are causing humanity to fail in every aspect of life!
The problem is you state that "how can any sensible person then turn around and say that proves there are no conspiracies?"
The problem is that people that see one conspiracy theory go on to think everything is a conspiracy theory.
JKK
Princess Di
9/11
7/11
Moon landing
But you say "amatuer" investigators. So these are not "professionals", who actually do it for real.
There was a program on last week about 9/11 and a bunch of idiots saying it was a conspiracy the government planted the bus bombs etc. One of their issues was that there was no way a home made explosive could tear the top off a bus. So they got some home brew explosives and prceeded to blow the top of the bus of. Soon started to change their minds all because some halfwit at some point goes and says home made explosive can't blow the top of a bus off, this suddenly became fact in the realm of the conspiracy theory.
It was only when they had empiracal evidence that they believed they were wrong. The issue being people with no experience saying things does not constitute evidence.
Hmm I wouldn't go as far as to say the entire media is controlled by 'the man', manipulated certainly but the Beeb does a fair job in certain areas to be impartial, but even they are not always clever enough to realise when and when not they are being worked by city commodity speculators.
The media is owned and controlled by the same people that own the global banking system and control most sectors from the arms trade to the pharmaceutical corporations.
All of it??
Even Singletrack??
[i]*eyes the Mods suspiciously*[/i]
We are by definition living in a capitalist society and as such are constantly manipulated by that capital and it's quest for a return. Globalisation, the pursuit of endless profit, dictated by accountants with no regard for the humanity and necessity of man working not just for profit but for vocational and society reasons is the enemy.
The rules of Capitalism need rewriting, their needs to be a definition of what fair profit is, what is 'enough' just how rich does one man or organisation need to be at the expense of mankind.
oops sorry off on one again../rant
The media is owned and controlled by the same people that own the global banking system and control most sectors from the arms trade to the pharmaceutical corporations.
Where is your evidence for this guff then ?
The media is owned and controlled by the same people that own the global banking system and control most sectors from the arms trade to the pharmaceutical corporations.
That'd be me, then.
I was going to make a wordpress website saying 'Scuzz owns and controls the global banking system and controls most sectors of the arms trade to the pharmaceutical corporations' and link you to it as proof, but I can't do [i]effort[/i] like I used to...
😆 ^^^ but I can't do effort like I used to...
Yeah lets rewrite the rules of capitalism! Have you got the original rules so we can take a look and see what we need to change perchance?
And give us an idea of what will be a fair profit.
If I can I will get round to after dinner, I think I should be able to get a quick call into the people that own and control the media the global banking system and most of the other sectors from the arms trade to the pharmaceutical corporations. Shouldn't take long and I am sure they will be all ears when I tell them what a fair profit is. Quick rehash of the rules of capitalism and we should be able to resolve the banking crisis and get the economy back on its feet by mid morning tomorrow.
Or should I forgo dinner to save the world?
Mind you isn't the financial crisis just another conspiracy theory because I am not skint! There you have empirical evidence that there is no financial crisis because I do have a pot to pi55 in!
@Kaiser or whatever
All these terrible things you are fretting about, apart from STW. What are you doing about them?
Hmm I wouldn't go as far as to say the entire media is controlled by 'the man', manipulated certainly but the Beeb does a fair job in certain areas to be impartial, but even they are not always clever enough to realise when and when not they are being worked by city commodity speculators.
I think the BBC is pretty poor these days, they had their balls chopped off by the Hutton report. IMO the blind fanaticism believing in the integrity and brilliance of the BBC is quite a problem in the UK. It's not that different to the American news channels, just more subtle in its delivery.
Because of my currently shonky interwebz connection that keeps dropping out, I haven't looked at the Lance Armstrong thread, but seeing as how it's being referred to on 6Music news as a conspiracy, has kaesae done due diligence and thoroughly investigated what's been going on there?
I can't believe I have to say this, but...
There were never any serious conspiracy theories about the death of JFK by the masses, until Oliver Stone's film. The film was universally slated as being full of crap when shown, to which Stone replied something along the lines of 'Hey, it's not a documentary, its only entertainment'.
The 8mm film of the shooting shows nothing untoward (people do NOT move away from bullet impacts). Thousands of people in the square pointed out the shooter in the book depository window. The shooter was an ex. Marine (still famed for their longer range marksmanship than other US military disciplines) shooting the quickest operating bolt action rifle eve made (even quicker to operate than the Lee-Enfield).
Almost every key 'fact' in Stone's film can be proven incorrect if you spend 5 minutes in the reference section of your local library.
Anyone who believes in JFK conspiracies based on anything in the film should be sterilised and banned from voting.
Getting the news these days is like researching History, you need multiple sources with different perspectives.
Probably worth ignoring PressTV and Fox News off the cuff though. Presstv has produced some curious stuff, once saw a segment that was just US soldiers committing general butchery. Then proceeded to talk about a totally unrelated topic, iirc it was education in Iran. Wasn't even advertising a documentary.
This however was hilarious:
The problem with possible conspiracies in general, is that often genuine concerns are clouded over by bizarre theories.
9/11, certainly the US knew something was coming (a taped warning of a revenge attack from the air if the US didn't stop meddling in the Middle East is aired in the TWA800 crash documentary made years earlier. In fact the US originally thought TWA800 WAS the attack!).
And hopefully we all know UFOs are fact, I see many. They are objects in the sky that one can't identify, doesn't make them flying saucers. They are flares, aircraft at distance, etc.
If I were the Government, I'd have had that horrid Spencer woman disposed of too...
Even Singletrack??*eyes the Mods suspiciously*
/grabs big pile of cash and heads for the Borders.
How long can I keep in hiding on £1.75p?
so I've chosen to spend as much time living and working'off the grid.
Hey! Gene, what was it like playing Lex Luther?
In the borders? About 2 weeks.
In Borders? Don't think that'll even buy you a coffee. 😀
TuckerUK - Member
I can't believe I have to say this, but...There were never any serious conspiracy theories about the death of JFK by the masses, until Oliver Stone's film.
Well if that were the case, and I have to say having lived through the period there most certainly were doubts and misgivings started the moment Jack Ruby shot Oswald before he could be brought to court, so then why was a reasonably budgeted film even considered if it wasn't thought that there were enough would be believers to make it a commercial success?
And secondly further to that clip of the ill educated white youth, had Sharia Law not been ignored for so long under the liberal intelligensia's multi cultural experiment, there would be no fodder for the far right to manipulate types like that with.
Another conspiracy theory proven there, that the Liberal left enforced multiculturalism and mass immigration to ram it to the right, was it not?
One times conspiracy theory can be another times truth, depends who's writing history.
Had Jimi Saville been a Muslim would he be under discussion even?
I'm buying shares in Alcoa, Rio Tinto and Rusal.
so then why was a reasonably budgeted film even considered if it wasn't thought that there were enough would be believers to make it a commercial success?
A film doesn't require anyone believing in the subject matter for it to be considered a viable financial proposition.
This was better;
One times conspiracy theory can be another times truth, depends who's writing history.
"what is history but a fable agreed upon"
piemonster - Member
A film doesn't require anyone believing in the subject matter for it to be considered a viable financial proposition.
Maybe, but it certainly helps, case to point Michael Moores Bowling for Columbine which ended up with multiple awards, was more factually based but only ended up grossing about 58million as against JFK's 200+ million, then the clincher for conspiracy theorys affecting profitability Moore's Fahrenheit 911 eclipsed that.
Maybe, but it certainly helps
What are the relative production and advertising costs involved there?
Besides, JFK, truth or no truth is a bloody good yarn, power, greed, money, danger, tragedy. Micheal Moores is a fat bierdy bloke in a baseball cap.