I see Merkel is saying that Germany need to do more to change its laws to allow asylum seeking sex offenders to be deported (currently it would be virtually impossible to deport any Syrian and no one who is sentenced to less than 3 years). Wouldn't it have been smarter to have figured this out before ?
This is how it starts! They will all be in concentration camps before the end of the year!
She is trying to cover herself, when she caused the problem in the first place (well it's not all her fault, as Germany didn't decide to invade Iraq and destabalise the whole region).
@jambalaya - American law enforcement consider the 'sovereign citizen' movement a much greater threat to national security than they do Islamic terrorism. Look it up. I'm sure you know better as usual though. As I said there have been far more non-Muslim terror attacks in America than Muslim ones, but the body count is higher from the Muslim ones.
Tom trying to claim that only one of the middle eastern conflicts is 'tenuously' linked to oil is either more trolling or naivety to the point of idiocy. Alan Greenspan admitted Iraq was about oil, and Syria is of great strategic interest in terms of gas pipelines etc. If as a country we are supposedly 'broke' you really think we'd be spending millions on bombing etc if there wasn't something in it for us?
It's all the Germans fault.
I blame Kaiser Wilhem II.
If he hadn't challenged the British Naval Supremacy which to led to a naval arms race, Churchill wouldn't have made the decision to convert the Royal Navy to run on oil rather than coal. Which in turn led to the division of the Middle East along straight, convenient lines and the creation of the Anglo-Persian Oil Company.
The rest is history.
@grum, I imagine US law enforcement do consider "sovereign citizens" a greater risk as they've always backed their border control to keep out the wrong sort. They did get that spectacularly wrong with 9/11 mind you.
IMO Iraq war was about finishing the job after Gulf War 1 and the fact that Hussein tried to assasinate Bush senior on a visit to Kuwait. See "Against all Enemies"
The US is now self sufficient in oil with fracking, they know the Saudis have to keep pumping to keep their country afloat economically. Iran is back producing. All this is why oil is at $35 not $110. Overall they really don't care that much.
I cant believe people are saying it didn't happen and its just racism.
it obviously did (too many unconnected witnesses) and what did they expect when hey let in a million manly young, unattached, men. from a culture that is pretty misogynistic compared to northern Europe.
Sadly Germany's generosity will cost it a lot. Paying Lebanon and Turkey (for example) to look after refugees would be much better.
Hh45 I don't think anyone is saying it didn't happen
it obviously did (too many unconnected witnesses) and what did they expect when hey let in a million manly young, unattached, men. from a culture that is pretty misogynistic compared to northern Europe.Sadly Germany's generosity will cost it a lot.
Agree that integration will take time, but, like the rest of Europe with ageing populations, they need to import young workers to prevent this demographic timebomb from crippling them.
And as for this statement; jambafact alert !!
as they've always backed their border control to keep out the wrong sort.
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@kimbers I said "the wrong sort", whilst Trump tries to classify all Mexicans as rapists most are there to work illegally and I'm not aware they've created any major national security threat. That was my point. Illegal immigration is a big issue in the US and they have a pretty serious wall already.
Sadly Germany's generosity will cost it a lot. Paying Lebanon and Turkey (for example) to look after refugees would be much better.
Agree totally, you can help far more people for the same cost and in a cultural environment they are familiar with
most [Mexicans] are there to work illegally
#jambafact
From my experience of living and working in the US I would think most undocumented Mexicans in the US are just there to work, would be interesting to know if there is information otherwise?
From my experience of living and working in the US I would think most undocumented Mexicans in the US are just there to work, would be interesting to know if there is information otherwise?
From my experience living and working in the US and teaching English to immigrants in Texas, a lot of the people you call Mexican are not, they come from a variety of countries. As to the statistics, they are readily Google'able. Approx 5m out of 12m are illegal, of whom not all work.
Demographics is not the problem for Germany. you can let people into work and not give them citizenship and all the rights that go with it. That way its easier to prevent excess demand for housing, abuse of benefits, cultural integration and so on. Sadly (because it appears to have been well intentioned) the Germans have messed up big time. The Hungarians and Australians are the only countries really thinking straight on this issue.
Approx 5m out of 12m are illegal, of whom not all work
Of course not all work. However an illegal in the US will not get welfare support. So I guess it's work or starve.
Nonimmigrants and undocumented immigrants are barred from receiving benefits. They are eligible, however, for public health, emergency services, and programs identified by the attorney general as necessary for the protection of life and safety.
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigrants-and-welfare-use
Demographics are important, of course, you don't want your country to resemble an old persons home.
It's clear the fall in fertility rates in the West is permanent.
But with the rise of technology and automation, do we need a continued influx of young labour?
We could be approaching a world in which technology does pretty much everything.
[url= http://http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/10/after-cologne-attacks-british-politicians-show-share-merkel-values ]Will Hutton article[/url]
in todays Observer. well known liberal / left of centre thinker like what he is
Madame has regularly made a comment about the demographic of the refugees shown on German TV, "where are all the women". I think part of the answer is in the refugee camps in Jordan and Turkey. Wherever the female half of the population is, I think it's unhealthy that the sexes have been divided in the exodus.
But with the rise of technology and automation, do we need a continued influx of young labour?
We could be approaching a world in which technology does pretty much everything.
See what you are saying but i think we are a long way off automation saving us from manual labour, more importantly what robots can't do is pay tax;
its the people in work who support the retirees, winter fuel, bus passes, license fees, all of that very very expensive medical care and of course pensions make up the biggest chunk of the welfare bill.
Assuming Germany can manage to integrate all of these immigrants well (and I'm sure they will), their economy will be strengthened in the long term
Assuming Germany can manage to integrate all of these immigrants well (and I'm sure they will), their economy will be strengthened in the long term
AFAIK Germany is not intending to welcome these people permanently. The refugees from the Bosnian war and their children born in Germany had no right to remain and where repatriated. When we grant asylum in the UK it can be for 5 years or longer inc permanent
What makes you so confident they will integrate them well ? It has started out very badly and most don't speak German, they have budgeted €3bn alone to teach them German.
Madame has regularly made a comment about the demographic of the refugees shown on German TV, "where are all the women"
Cultural issues mean many women will not travel (be that as they don't wish to, aren't allowed to, etc.) Also many men are husbands / sons / brothers who expect to send for their family as/when they are granted asylum. The alternative more negative explanation is many of these refugees ae ex fighters for/against Assad who've had enough
#JAMBYFACTthey have budgeted €3bn alone to teach them German
they have budgeted €3bn alone to teach them German
#JAMBYFACT
Well they have budgeted 17bn euros for the original estimate of the 800,000 refugees.
The funds will go towards housing, food, education and otherwise care for the asylum seekers
So to allow about 20% for education would seem reasonable to me.
[url= http://news.yahoo.com/german-states-budget-17-bn-euros-refugees-2016-114901246.html ]http://news.yahoo.com/german-states-budget-17-bn-euros-refugees-2016-114901246.html[/url]
Reported offenses now [b]exceed 500[/b] with 40% being of a sexual nature. Andrew Marr show today repeated my comment froma few days ago, Merkel is now in increasing trouble politically, a real threat to her Chancellorship is bulding
#jambafact love these two challenges ( if you can call them that in particular), basic stuff guys
Junky please make some kind of effort to keep up with the news. Reported a couple of months ago, estimate from German government minister
DrJ (browsing on the phone again I imagine) millions of illegal Mexican immigrants, please feel free to complete
Reasons they've come to the US - we're looking for rational for "vast majority"
1) to work illegally (#jambafact)
2) to work legally (not possible they have no visa or social security number)
3) to give birth so child has US passport
4) vacation ? (why come illegally)
5) ?... DrJ's explanation
Veyr happy to check your explanation with my Texan friends, seeing a very good one in 10 days in Singapore.
Junky please make some kind of effort to keep up with the news. Reported a couple of months ago, estimate from German government minister
You seem confused what you have to do is post up the proof/evidence of your claim not repeat it.
I was slightly disappointed you missed the opportunity to do an appeal to authority there.
Out of interest how would you suggest one keeps up with two month old news, or history as I prefer to term it ? 😉
In your defence I very much doubt you spend as much time reading / watching news as I do, nor have access to,paid subscription services which my employer provides. You [b]are[/b] just as able to go on a google spree as I am on this. It was definitely a written piece on the web, bbc probably. I am under zero obligation to justify anything to you or indeed anyone else. You and I both understand that. If you doubt it research it yourself.
Why don't you help out DrJ with his questionaire ?
This much is exceedingly obvious. You seem to get opinion and fact confused quite regularly.I am under zero obligation to justify anything
question[b]n[/b]aire
DrJ (browsing on the phone again I imagine) millions of illegal Mexican immigrants, please feel free to complete
Irrelevant , since that was not what you claimed, which was that the majority of Mexicans are in the US to work illegally, not that the majority of illegal Mexicans are there to work.
DrJ on the Met line.
In your defence I very much doubt you spend as much time reading / watching news as I do,
Bless you for the appeal..I never knew I meant so much to your trollsomeness.
I could google but it was your claim and you , despite your massive [s]ego[/s] knowledge base seem unable to provide the proof despite repeated requests
Anyway is entirely free to make things up,ignore facts whilst refusing to accept they are wrong just as we are free to make a judgment about a person who would do this and the weight we would give to any unsubstantiated claim they make.I am under zero obligation to justify anything to you or indeed anyone else.
When exactly did you stop "debating" and just go for trolly shit like that ?
I cant believe people are saying it didn't happen and its just racism.
That reminds me of something else.
Veyr happy to check your explanation with my Texan friends
That will be really helpful if they share your love of logical fallacies and complete disregard for evidence/fact.
Also guys...I think this needs to be said, I'd quickly like to say that we should all use this thread to take pause and have a quick think about how we treat the women in our own lives. Let's all treat women in a less misogynistic manner, yeah?
Also, take pause to think about all the women holed up in shitty refugee camps right now - where this abuse probably goes on, on a daily basis.
I'd be happy to let all the women and children come over - I'm less enthralled by the idea of entitled men seeking refuge.
*Thinks, asks Madame if she finds the men she meets misogynistic*.
Madame says she doesn't find men misogynistic, she could name a few macho types but not misogynistic.
I think it's just a good idea to take a few minutes to reflect Edukator - we still have issues with domestic abuse and rape etc in the country.
It would be nice, if we could define ourselves as a culture by showing solidarity with women and by more staunchly supporting our own cultural ideals. Instead of just critiquing immigrant cultures (which has it's place).
I'd quickly like to say that we should all use this thread to take pause and have a quick think about how we treat the women in our own lives. Let's all treat women in a less misogynistic manner, yeah?
I dont and I think it would make more sense to ask people not to do it rather than do it less.
Well yes Junky - but that's black and white thinking. Things are greyer, like the fact that not all immigrants are responsible for rape and terrorism - and the fact that terrorism is also only ever going to be lessened.
I'm unsure why we aren't funding the camps more and doing more to support turkey, again, we could help rufugees without resorting to either A) Letting everyone in or B) Telling everyone to **** off and becoming isolationist.
There's never a sodding happy medium in politics, ever. Especially in continental Europe, where one half of the century was marred by dictatorships and the next half was dominated by hippies and then during the 21st century we start swinging back to the far right.
I currently live next to the busiest land border crossings in the world - San Diego / TJ.
Over 70,000 people make the crossing from Mexico into the US each day, and over 70,000 go back again.
They all come to work, they earn their money, then they go home again.
The crap you read in the press is just that, crap.
You are right i should be more grey and assume all men are mysgonistic 😕
Forgive me for your poor use of the language.
I think you are full of crap sometimes Junky. I think men should discuss womens issues between themselves - or at least think about them once in a while.
well if saying i am misogynist and I talk crap when i object to this wont bring about this discourse then i for one dont know what will 🙄
I'm making the exact same point as those asking the Muslim world for a bit more introspection.
Sure, I just got home from work and I'm tired - I think the point still stands. Without debate and that means including men in the discussion, nothing changes.
If you think you are holier than thou, be my guest, keep looking down on everyone from your ivory tower mate.
I certainly deserve to be insulted because i dont hate women or treat them badly due to this hatred.
Another bold step in helping us discuss the issue .
FWIW i dont dislike you but you could occasionally [ as could I] gain from thinking before typing.
It may have been well meant but it was poorly expressed and I may have been overly harsh.
Exits thread
Does anyone still think this didn't happen?
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35280386 ]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35280386[/url]
According to that report, 19 people are under investigation - meanwhile:
On Sunday evening, a group of around 20 people attacked six ****stanis, two of whom had to be treated in hospital.Two Syrian men were attacked in two separate incidents. Three men from Guinea were assaulted in a fourth attack, police said.
BUT ITS THE END OF DAYS ITS THE FALL OF EUROPEAN CIVILISATION BECAUSE OF ALL THE DARK-SKINNED FOREIGNERS BAN THEM!
Appalling racists attacks in retribution, I hope those responsible are brought to justice.
What I do have to ask is why so many ****stani's are in Germany claiming asylum ? What's wrong with returning to ****stan from Syria and what where they doing there in the first place ?
What I do have to ask is why so many ****stani's are in Germany claiming asylum ?
Are they?
That was what was reported. Its my experience with spending 30 years travelling to the middle east that there are many ****stani and Bangladeshi's working there doing meneal jobs. It very much looks like they have joined the substantial numbers (40%) coming from the Balkens to claim asylum in Germany. I can understand their decsion, if succesful they will have a far better life than returning home to ****stan etc
That was what was reported.
Where?
Its my experience with spending 30 years travelling to the middle east that there are many ****stani and Bangladeshi's working there doing meneal jobs.
For once your anecdotal 'evidence' tallies with actual facts.
It very much looks like they have joined the substantial numbers (40%) coming from the Balkens to claim asylum in Germany.
Maybe, but what are you basing this on?
