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Been back to see the folks. There seems to be a movement there where the police have recruited a gang of middle class, bored locals to dress in high-vis jackets and point speed cameras at their neighbours. If they catch you, you're sent a letter apparently. They got me, fair cop, although I'm not sure they have any rights to issue endorsements - just a ‘friendly’ warning! - no excuses for speeding, although all four of them, in a group did have a huge smug look about them as they hurried to write down my details. BUT, my point is this - it felt slightly uncomfortable that we seem to be developing into a nation where were encouraged to grass on our neigbours. Have we learned nothing from history? Orwell saw it coming so why doesn’t everyone else? (Apologies for the lack of paragraphs, my enter key seems to have stopped working).
Seemingly you get sent a letter by your local community officer explaining that this is a warning and if they catch you again you will be targeted in some form or another.
I have no issue with the 'proper' police doing this. I have no issue with community officers or whatever they are called doing this. But i do have an issue with Joe Bloggs from down the road doing it. What if we have previous or my son had an argument with his and he feels like getting his own back. I dont speed so i havent had this arise but they do it where i live and i would not be happy if one of my neighbours started targeting me.
Welcome to Britian! That's the way it is...
(By the way, if you say anything about wanting to leave 'cos its crap, you'll get flamed on this forum)
Orwell was correct and I agree with you, but most here don't.
TJ et al will be along soon.
Run the ****s down next time
Just ignore them.
My father (who never speeds) stopped to have a chat with them and asked them if this is the sort of place they wanted to live in, where neighbours spy on neighobours and they told him to 'move on sir'.....He told them to '**** off, who are you to tell me to move on?' (my father never normally swears). It's obviously gone to their heads already.
What's worse than the laws in this country? The people (rank and file)in this country 'impossing' those laws!
Welcome to the Third Riech gentlemen....
JulianA - MemberWelcome to Britian! That's the way it is...
(By the way, if you say anything about wanting to leave 'cos its crap, you'll get flamed on this forum)
Julian - you never did say where you think it is better. You got flamed ( very mildly) for making a stupid statement and not being able to back it up. You think that is a flaming - read some of what gets chucked my way
By the way, if you say anything about wanting to leave 'cos its crap, you'll get flamed on this forum
'I read someone on an internet forum saying that they got a warning letter because they were speeding, life in this country really is intolerable now'. 😛
You seem to have totally missed the point of what I was saying in the other thread, but never mind.
I agree with the OP, I don't think private citizens be allowed to start doing stuff like this.
There's always been neighbours who would look at other peoples tax discs when they were out walking their dogs, and then report out of date discs. This is just a step up from that sort of thing I guess?
You'll get people who don't like this sort of behaviour and you'll get people who will tell you they're fed up with drivers speeding in their towns/villages/streets and that there's "never a policeman around to catch the offenders when you need one"
Should the general pubic unite against the law enforcment agencies (or the vat man, tax man, traffic warden etc) of the country and get away with what they can or should responsible citizens support the authorities and report crimes where they see them?
🙂
I might be tempted to go on the offensive against them. Write to local papers complaining about their conduct, write to the local high heid yin cop, stand 100 yards down the road with a sign saying "busybodies with speed guns"
do you know any one with a tazer ????????
tazzzzerrrrrrrssssssssssss................
[i]Write to local papers complaining about their conduct[/i]
"I was speeding along when my neighbours caught me" should get plenty of sympathy...
Just don't stop.
I don't believe that 'failing to stop whilst driving when requested to do so by a civilian', is criminal offence.
Unless they are a lollipop person.
Sorted.
they don't stop you ernie, they write down your details and pass them on to the police at the end of the day.
you will get a letter warning you that you have been seen speeding. If you consistantly get letters the police keep an eye out for your car.
I don't think civvies should be upholding the law like this. Theres to much room for revenge.
Can't say it would bother me, I speed fairly regularly (not like 100mph...) I do it knowing full well I'm breaking the law but I choose to take the risk in places where I think it's safe for me to do (like 40 in a 30 that's a straight road, no parked cars and lots of visibility). I'd be pissed off if caught whether by civvies or the fuzz but at the end of the day I'd know it would be my fault.
Not sure what kind of response the guy who's father stopped to chat to them was expecting. It sounds like they were polite enough and then the guy swore at them yet apparently it's all gone to their heads? OK...
As for people reporting out of date tax discs, good for them to as they likely aren't insured either and the more uninsured scum that are off the roads the better (and cheaper) for the rest of us.
I don't have any problem with it. Much like someone mentioned above, it is simply a step up from spotting a neighbour has an invalid tax disc*, which 90%+ on here suggest you should shop to the polie (and I agree). I think its about time more people toon note of neighbours activity, cared what each other did and had a word when it wasnt considered acceptable. We moan and bitch about how the problem with the world to day is a lack of community, no responsibility and a nanny state-like afair, yet when a concerned bunch of locals try to do something to improve their neighbourhood STW is like a pack of wolves.
*
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-would-you-do-car-tax-dodging
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/someone-not-paying-road-tax-report-them
If it makes drivers aware of speed limits and the fact they are breaking them it's a good thing.
The civvies can't nick you but it might prevent you getting busted by a 'proper' speed camera and save your license a few points and your pocket a few pounds.
[i]I might be tempted to go on the offensive against them. Write to local papers complaining about their conduct, write to the local high heid yin cop, stand 100 yards down the road with a sign saying "busybodies with speed guns" [/i]
Power to the local people !! hmm sounds like something you'd get involved in rather than complain about, except of course with your 'supersenses' and 'know it all' brain you wouldn't need the speed camera, just the TJ eagle eye and impeccable judgement............
Surprised at the above reactions. You were speeding in a built up area and got zapped, perhaps you'll slow down next time.
The main idea I think (I can't speak for them individually) is to be a deterrent. Lots of people will slow down and that bit of road will get a reputation for speed enforcement. Also, those that get letters may modify their behaviour. I have to 'fess up' here - I am a police officer. If you want to judge public opinion here, try going to some police / police authority / public consultation meetings and you may be amazed at just how many people want 'more speed enforcement please'. As well as my job, I am also the father of a lad who a few years ago stepped out without looking in front of a car and got knocked over - well, he went over the roof actually. I'm just so glad that the 17 year old driver was doing around 28 in the 30 limit. If they had "only been doing 35" it would have been a whole different story. So in summary, I have no problem whatsoever with the speed limits, nor with members of the public who want to get involved and add their weight of numbers to the effort.
[i]Surprised at the above reactions. You were speeding in a built up area and got zapped, perhaps you'll slow down next time[/i]
especially from people who seem only too willing to break out the metaphorical white hoods and burning crosses for other perceived misdemeanours.......
Indeed.
And catshoe - good post.
My issue isn't with enforcement of the speed limits by cameras or the police, it's the idea of turning neighbours against each other by recruiting them as spies effectively. The same technique was used in East Germany and in France during the war. It's not a nice way to live - we should be encouraging neighbours to look out for each other.
Coffeeking, Hilldodger, Andywhit - I'm heartened, pleased to make your acquaintance
What, in East Germany and France before the war (East Germany before the war was just Germany) they invited community members to enforce, no, not enforce, send letters to people who were speeding? Reductio ad absurdum
No, they encouraged people to spy on their neighbours.
They have done this locally to me. The point where it really got to me (I have had none of the letters by the way) was when I spotted one elderly bearded gentleman who clearly thought it was time to play 'John Wayne' and practice his draw and fire technique.
This included aiming at traffic going in the opposite direction with under the arm shots!
I thought the police had to 'suspect' you of speeding before pointing a laser gun at you anyway, so why does Tom, Dick or Harry from down the road get to fire at will?!
My issue isn't with enforcement of the speed limits by cameras or the police, it's the idea of turning neighbours against each other by recruiting them as spies effectively. The same technique was used in East Germany and in France during the war. It's not a nice way to live - we should be encouraging neighbours to look out for each other.
Troll or too much caffeine too early in the morning?
I *think* they may have been ratting on their neighbours for things other than speeding. Like listening to west berlin radio or harbouring escaped airmen. Which would be both more 'laudable' wrongdoings in the eyes of the rest of the world, and also taken more seriously by the local, err, authorities. Hardly in the same league? I'm not sure there is a reasonable argument for the right to speed, its not going to overthrow a totalitarian government is it?
[edit] although the John Wayne man in previous post really sounds rather ridiculous 😆
A campaign of civil obedience will foil their fiendish plan. I mean it must be pretty boring to stand there all day and watch car after car driving by at under the speed limit. They would soon get bored and wander off to find a news hobby like topiary or bestiality or something.
[i]my point is this - it felt slightly uncomfortable that we seem to be developing into a nation where were encouraged to grass on our neigbours. Have we learned nothing from history? Orwell saw it coming so why doesn’t everyone else.[/i]
I suppose it depends on what laws you think are acceptable to break.
I guess most people wouldn't shop their neighbors if they were downloading mp3s, but would if they saw them fiddling with kids in the back garden. Certainly it would be a fairly abhorrent society if you felt that something was wrong in grassing on the latter.
I guess it boils down to how much damage the law-breaking is doing to your perception of society as to whether reporting a neighbor is socially divisive or cohesive.
stop driving like a **** and then you will be ok, are you that thick?
community, i am sure someone here was saying about everyone is only interested in themselves. Now you have people looking out for their community and you winge.
Society only works through consent, Policing only works through consent! If everyone starts to speed then there is F*** all anyone can do about it.
We all know there are alot of bad drivers on the road and that as a cyclist you haven't a hope of the police of doing anything without WITNESSES, we can all live in little bubbles ignore everything or we can accept that for society to work then sometimes you do need people to pay attention to what happens around them. Do you really expect the police to do everything? do you expect the police to be everywhere? If your house gets broken into would you hope that your neighbour would ring the police if they were concerned, or would you expect them to ignore it? If you have an accident in the street would you hope that people would help or would walk on by?
They may be busy bodies, but i would rather people took the effort to consider the world in which they live rather than to ignore everyone and everything around them.
[i]I thought the police had to 'suspect' you of speeding before pointing a laser gun at you anyway, so why does Tom, Dick or Harry from down the road get to fire at will?! [/i]
The police seem quite happy to point a speed gun at me whilst out cycling, and then shout "You're not pedalling fast enough!" 🙂
Actually I'm suprised that the government hasn't offloaded speed cameras into the private sector yet. That would be brillant! 🙂 This happy camera is brought to you by McDonalds!
Just a question do cops in UK swear in court of laws? Every cops here are "assermenté" which mean they (theoretically) always tell the truth and their word is as a matter of fact a proof in court of law?
If it's the same in UK I have very much doubt the nazi joe average has this kind of power so jet tell them that it wasn't you.
How can you complain that you break the law and members of your community try and stop you? This seems responsible rather than totalitarian (what do you think of the crimestoppers number and are you all equally outragesd if a community grass the local drug dealers/pimp/paedo?
Which crimes are OK then...just the ones you do ?
Perhpas there has been three deaths on the road and the person holding the gun is just trying to prevent someone else from burying a child ?
20 years ago people complained about being stopped for drink driving as many people thought it was OK like many today think it is OK to speed.
How can you complain that you break the law and members of your community try and stop you?
Tell to all hte jews that have been grassed out during WWII
- we should be encouraging neighbours to look out for each other.
Errrrrrr - they ARE. It's called monitoring the speed limits and sending you a warning that you're driving too fast. Speak to anyone who's been (or had a kid) hit by a speeding car in a residential area and tell THEM that these people are not looking out for each other.
I don't get you, I really dont - I dont like people "spying" on me and dislike some of my neighbours, but I'd rather they were out lasering me than turning their heads while some of the local loons thrash down the street at 50. If you think "revenge" might come into it, maybe you're not a very good neighbour and have pee'd off people who appear to be law-abiding enough to have been given (a small amount of ) responsibility by the local plod.
We should be encouraging community and neighbourhood vigilence and lack of tolerance to people who make life in those communities a pain. Amongst noise and anti-social behaviour, driving like a t$t down residential roads is not very neighbourly.
juan - MemberHow can you complain that you break the law and members of your community try and stop you?
Tell to all hte jews that have been grassed out during WWII
Clearly anyone who belives that you should drive within the speed limit is clearly denies the holocaust and supports the gassing of Jews the killings of Pol Pot , supports the Chinese , those in Mymar etc and those who drive above the speed limits are all members of Amnesty International and campaign for human right worldwide and are just driving that fast so they can get home quicker to send out some more letter against injustice
Honestly there is NO comparison between the two situations you mention.
I also disagree it's turning neighbour against neighbour, having lived in a small village in the past it's not the locals that are the issue it's people razzing through at silly speeds on their weekend blast around the countryside. I doubt most of the civvies doing it are motivated by trying to catch out someone that lives a couple of doors down from them.
I rather think the point isn't communities looking out for each other, rather the perception that policing is being done on the cheap, that police officers are tied down with ever greater levels of paperwork and box-ticking, rather than enforcing the law, and civilians are thus being recruited to do the job for free. I've happily reported oiks hooning around helmetless on minimotorcycles on local roads, footpaths and cyclepaths, but I feel uneasy with unpaid civilians getting radar guns. There have been many proven instances of these instruments giving false readings in the hands of trained law enforcement officers, so there's plenty of scope for perfectly innocent drivers being persecuted by some clumsy numpty with a radar gun.
After a bit of thought I would like to retract my post about "going on the offensive" silly post.
Honestly there is NO comparison between the two situations you mention.
You mean expect the fact that in both cases it's civilian doing police job...
After seeing some of the really crap driving in South Wales last week - I'm all in favour of them if it saves lives and encourages people to adhere to speed limits.
[i]You mean expect the fact that in both cases it's civilian doing police job... [/i]
Except it isn't.