....oh, and incidentally, if the recent deal with China is anything to go by, we could end up with Chinese-sourced meat instead of US. The US doesn't need Chinese chicken, but agreed to it to get American beef on Chinese tables.
If you're not worried about American chicken, you should be worried about Chinese. China has a long and storied history of a poisoned food chain. America would have to inspect every shipment to be sure, and thats never going to happen.
"...he questions the Chinese government's ability to enforce food-safety standards, given its poor track record.
That record includes rat meat being sold as lamb, oil recovered from drainage ditches in gutters being sold as cooking oil, and baby formula contaminated with melamine that sickened hundreds of thousands of babies and killed six. In 2014, a Shanghai food-processing factory that supplied international restaurant brands including McDonald's and KFC was caught selling stale meat, repackaged with new expiration dates."
@Graham thanks for that, so maybe I'll stop then.
@cody yes I had read that and I understand why the Europe and the UK don't want to take the US approach here but it seems to me the only reason for banning it being imported is economic protectionism (Drac see there is my point, the EFSA says its safe to eat but its banned anyway). No time for the Archers these days but I am a country boy at heart (used to do farm jobs when I was younger). China is a whole other ball game agreed
So far I see that the main reason for not eating it is it sounds bad, fair enough.
So you missed or ignored the whole bit about hygiene down the chain being better than hoping some bleach makes it safe for consumption?
@Graham thanks for that, so maybe I'll stop then.
Not that it would help anyway, as there is probably more chlorine in your domestic water than in the chicken 😉
However, in 2008, the Council of Europe rejected a European Commission proposal to allow the use of antimicrobial chicken rinses containing chlorine, which it said can, “lead to the formation of chloroorganic compounds, several of which are persistent, bioaccumulable or carcinogenic”. In other words the compounds can cause cancer, are hard to get rid of and have a tendency to build up over time when repeatedly absorbed by living in organisms.
I'll stick with the EU recommendations thanks.
It's just a step backwards, the need for chlorinated chicken is purely due to poorer standards.
If the chickens were raised and slaughtered in a better way there's no need to sanitize the finished product with a disinfectant.
I'd rather move forward than backwards.
I appreciate there is a certain irony, being a meat eater, but i don't see why standards should be lowered, raising standards should be the only option, if not for safety, then for livestock welfare.
What Drac said.
It's now proven that processed meats are carcinogenic. So mince, sausage, your finest iberico ham and turkey twizzlers etc. We're not sure why.
Could it be because the meat comes into contact with disinfectants during processing? It's definitely one likely hypothesis.
Shove your chlorinated chicken. I'm not going to wait for the government to work out in 2047 that it was a really bad idea. See BSE, asbestos, thalidomide, horse meat, smoking circa 1950 etc for where this is likely to head. Our children will laugh at us for some of the stuff we produced and ate.
Jam, if we can import meat produced to lower standards this will undercut the UK produced stuff. Our farmers won't be able to compete unless we lower our own standards.
I try to buy local and organic where possible; the fact that this has been introduced by politicos so early speaks volumes about what the cousins want - access to a new market for poultry products which will drive down uk standards.
I will definitely have eaten it in the states but, given a choice, not for me - thanks.
As many earlier posts have stated, it's a lower quality product and will undercut uk producers.
After chicken, what 'adulterated' food will come next?
I have just dry fried some locally produced beef fillets - no noxious/toxic emissions from the meat; long may it continue.
US restaurants - upto and including fine dining - focus on 'the experience' aka I need you to tip extravagantly; which is a distraction from the average quality of the food being served.
The only significant exceptions to this can be grouped under '....ethnic, back street, look dodgy but worth investigating'.
I'm sure Don will now sweat this for everything he can - supporting US farmers blah bah.......
My advice - read the label; check country of origin; be very careful about what you ingest.
Interesting to note that Liam Fox & Michael Gove have diametrically opposed views............
Steroid/Growth Hormone injected beef main course to follow your chlorinated chicken starter?
Junkyard - lazarus
it's impossible to completely avoid the odd bit of mass produced meatDont eat meat ?
POSTED 7 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Yup; I was reading this thread and the steps they go to stop people shitting themselves to death on dodgy chicken and feeling quite pleased this has little or no impact on me.
Consumer choice? Not really -
Derivatives of GM maize and soya are in thousands of processed foods in the US. American consumers’ demands to see them labelled have been quashed by lobbying from big biotech companies, notably Monsanto. In the US, the only way to avoid eating GM ingredients is to buy organic food to cook at home and never eat out.
If the UK were obliged to accept chlorine chicken and acid-washed meat from the US, this would not need to be flagged up on product packaging because these washes and sprays would count as “processing aids”, which don’t need to be labelled.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/29/britain-us-trade-deal-gm-food-eu-rules
If they let chlorinated chicken in, I still have the option to avoid it and buy something that I consider to be better.
Just the same was I opt not to buy crap parts for my bike
If they let chlorinated chicken in, I still have the option to avoid it and buy something that I consider to be better.
How would you know if it was being served to you?
It's still not a good reason to allow something like that in. It's bad practice and a lower standard than anything from the UK. It puts downward pressure on price and UK standards.
If they let chlorinated chicken in, I still have the option to avoid it and buy something that I consider to be better.
As per the article I posted - it wouldn't be labelled so you wouldn't be able to make an informed choice.
DrJ well the labelling legislation could be easily changed, would they not already label the meat as "source US" ? That would seem enough to let people decide.
Drac so I get that point about carcinogens but we are not banning ham, sausages or bacon are we ? Also its aell known 6 Eastern European EU members fail to meet EU regulations for Pork prodiction but they are still allowed to sell it anonymously within the EU (note was previously sold cheap to Russia with EU turning a blind eye but they are sanctions now)
Molgrips this is my view, its protectionism. I would much rather see animal husbandry legislation lead to the end of £3 supermarket chickens than ban chlorine washing
but have you read the rest of the long explanation as to how it's masking very bad practices to rearing and handling animals and being used to clean up all of the serious mistakes in the chain before packing.
How would you make something that has cut massive corners compared to UK standards compare? Would it not have a seriously adverse impact on the UK chicken farming industry?
You would not have any obligation to name a source in any kind of served chicken dish would you?
DrJ well the labelling legislation could be easily changed,
No it couldn't. How long have processed food producers and supermarkets resisted having to label sugar, fat, etc contents on food labels. And they still can't agree on a standardi. So, no, and you probably know this already, labelling legislation won't be [i]easily[/i] changes at all.
and what this really shows is that when you are the junior partner in a negotiation you have to beg for the scraps at the table if you want a deal. Amazing isn't it.
Agroculture is such an important industry for a nation, with climate pressures and uncertainty maintaining good quality food supply is imperitive. Accepting crap that will pressure local markets that operate to a much higher standard and undercut and undermine pricing and business models is a stupid idea. Agricuture needs protecting.
Can someone explain to me, if chicken is so full of deadly stuff, and has to be cooked to within an inch of its life so that you dont die from eating it, why is it then ok to wash your hands/knifes/chopping boards in warm water and fairy liquid?
Serious question.
Up until the beginning of this year the majority of the chicken imported into the EU was from Brazil. The Brazilian meat scandal makes chlorine washed chicken insignificant. The EU legislation did nothing to prevent this or to enforce it's own standards with regards to meat imports. Only after a Brazilian police probe into their largest meat producers, probably after a tip off when someone didn't get a big enough bribe, only then was action taken. The EU legislation protected no one just like it didn't with the horse meat and tumbled chicken scandals.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-22/brazil-tainted-meat-scandal-leaves-the-world-hungry-for-chicken
http://uk.businessinsider.com/brazil-spoiled-rotten-meat-bribery-scandal-economic-recover-2017-3?r=US&IR=T
If they let chlorinated chicken in, I still have the option to avoid it and buy something that I consider to better
Phew! It'll just be poor people that have to buy it. That's a relief.
(Assuming you never eat chicken in restaurants or buy chicken sandwiches or nuggets or pies...)
I would much rather see animal husbandry legislation lead to the end of £3 supermarket chickens than ban chlorine washing
I'd like to see improvements in animal welfare too, but to do that you really need to be part of a large trade block with agreed animal welfare standards (something like the EU for example) otherwise your own farmers following high standards are undercut by cheaper low welfare standard produce.
FFS you drink dilute chlorine every time you drink tap water. And they aren't even using chlorine any more, they use peracetic acid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peracetic_acid
Yes we do but you've missed the point.
It used to be common practice to wash poultry, and some shellfish, in chlorinated water in the UK so anyone who has eaten poultry pre-2005 will already have eaten chlorinated chicken.
It was more about maintaining shelf life by preventing spoilage than consumer safety. I can remember being at a turkey processors where they used to use 100ppm chlorine at the start of December, to make sure they lasted to Christmas, and reducing the concentration through the month to the normal 50ppm.
You're probably eating a hell of a lot worse on a night out.
I've witnessed personally.. condemned meat, unfit for human consumption sold to the local curry houses.. ducks caught by the local junkies (even dead rotting ones) sold to the Chinese takeaway next door to me.
I wouldnt worry too much about a bit of chlorine.
I wouldnt worry too much about a bit of chlorine.
Try reading the thread, the chlorine is used to clean up all the crap accumulated during the process from hatching to packing.
That is the major issue.
I'm not convinced you're describing a typical takeaway, I'm also curious how you have all this evidence but let the place stay open.
Molgrips this is my view, its protectionism.
It's about protecting standads.
And in any case - protectionism has a role, especially in food, where you need to protect strategic industries.
And animal welfare standards are also "protectionism" since they aim to prevent cheaper poor-welfare imports entering the market.
I'm not convinced you're describing a typical takeaway, I'm also curious how you have all this evidence but let the place stay open.
Thought I made myself pretty clear but...
A good friend who supplied them the meat did 7 years in prison for it.. He was supplying a LOT of Indian restaurants. His crime was big news at the time.. The authorities didnt seem interested in the restaurants who were selling it on, just the big guys shifting the large quantities.
The Chinese takeaway was next door to me and I would see it. They would even buy dead ducklings.
A lot of people here seem to have missed the point, even though it has been explained several times. The chances of Joe Public understanding that a "Made in the USA" label means "from unsanitary chickens in humanely raises and washes in chlorine " would appear slim.
Dont eat meat ?
But we are discussing eating meat.
It's just a step backwards, the need for chlorinated chicken is purely due to poorer standards.
My main issue would be it's likely to be crap quality meat. I'm pretty sure the free range ones I but aren't chlorinated now and won't be in the future.
Please nobody mention Welsh lamb and semen.
Just leave the rectum on the side of your plate.
Let Alan explain....
Some very interesting posts and in particular the Brazilian chicken story which I wasn't aware of. My views on the EU are well known here, incompetant at a staggering level. I can see no real reason the US chicken is banned other than protectionism. There was a programme on French TV about appalling standards of animal welfare raising ducks in Eastern Europe which are slaughtered then shipped to France for final processing and tinned where they are labeled as "made in France". The EU can turn a very very blind eye when it chooses.
If your only reason is other shit happens then thats not really a good thing is it...
Now we are leaving the EU maybe the UK can uphold it's own fine standards. Did you read the long and detailed post about why they need to wash their poultry at the end of a crappy process to make it fit for human consumption?
I thought Brexit meant taking back control and not being forced to accept whatever other people wanted.
incompetant at a staggering level
You say this, and it may be true, but if you can point to a UK government that wasn't I might consider it as a factor.
I can see no real reason the US chicken is banned other than protectionism.
Whta about all the reasons we've given you on this thread? You need to address them if you want to debate - you cannot simply ignore the points made.
France for final processing and tinned where they are labeled as "made in France". The EU can turn a very very blind eye when it chooses.
What have the French Government done to stop this?
Whta about all the reasons we've given you on this thread? You need to address them if you want to debate - you cannot simply ignore the points made.
Are you new around here?
Do keep up.....
Everything the nasty federal superstate EU does is evil and wrong and specifically aimed at damaging the plucky UK, without whom they'd all be speaking German anyway.
Murica on the other hand is a beacon of freedom and justice and has our bestest interests at heart with its eternal benevolence
Why is debating this even a thing? Regardless of if they have been lobbed in bleach or not why do we need american chickens? Why would we need to send refrigerated container ships across the atlantic when we can grow our own chickens closer to home? It's not like chicken farming is massively land intensive, especially not the way most of these poor beasts are reared. Just seems a waste from an environmental perspective to even consider it.
Why did the chicken cross the pond?
Can someone please explain where this notion has come from that once we leave the EU we will have poor animal welfare. We have had much higher standards than the majority of Europe before any EU legislation and what did come was usually already in place within the UK.
We currently in the [url= https://www.nfuonline.com/sectors/animal-health/animal-health-news/uk-leads-the-way-in-animal-welfare/ ]top four[/url] in the[url= http://api.worldanimalprotection.org/?_ga=2.238883776.1332564562.1501166352-1377971957.1501166352 ] animal welfare ranking[/url] alongside Austria, New Zealand and Switzerland as the only ones ranked as Grade A. The majority of the EU are Grade C. Maybe it's time the EU stepped up to the UK standards and people on here instead of just reading the EU propaganda actually looked at what we actually do ourselves above and beyond any EU legislation.
As the 2nd largest poultry producer in Europe behind Poland we should be looking at an opportunity to fill the market left by the Brazil meat scandal with high quality meat produced in a country that takes animal welfare seriously rather than merely giving it lip service.
Animal welfare costs money. Countries with poorer welfare can produce meat cheaper.Can someone please explain where this notion has come from that once we leave the EU we will have poor animal welfare
So we might still have farms with high standards, but less of them, as meat is sourced from elsewhere.
It will all come out in the (chlorine) wash, so will have to wait and see.
Can someone please explain where this notion has come from that once we leave the EU we will have poor animal welfare.
When we leave the EU we'll have to negotiate new individual trade agreements with a myriad of countries inc the states. The yanks will want to be able to sell us their shit as part of the deal. As a nation of one we'll be much easier to bend over and have to take whatever they fancy poking up us if we want to get a deal than we were were when we had our bezzie mates to hold hands with. Depending on which tory minister you interview and which day of the week it is we might be prepared to take the yanks' detoll dunked chicken to get a deal. Stuff we previously said we would not let pass our lips. If you cut a few corners and blitz the chickens at the end you can grow them 20% cheaper so our farmers might expect to do the same too keep in the game.
Have I missed anything?
