[Closed] Challenging 'socially acceptable' or merely attention seeking?

There are a whole range of reasons why I prefer to wear clothes in public.

One of them is to conceal the inevitable priapic stirring when confronted with a beautiful young art student with "panties" written on her naked groinal zone.

priapic stirring

*puts down cup of tea*

priapic stirring
*puts down cup of tea*

*spits tea*

*wipes sheepishly on tea-towel*

*looks at existing stains on tea towel*

On the flipside, is it a step too far? Is 'normality' something that should be respected? Should we not do things to upset the status quo for risk of upsetting others?

So - challenging the accepted 'normal' or just grabbing attention?

Depends on your personal politics. Moral conservatives like the status quo and maintenance of norms. Others, such as pragmatists, believe norms to be driven by convention, local cultural conditions and social agreement (and tend to be criticised as 'moral relativists'). I tend to agree that moral truth is contingent and norms are ripe to be challenged.

Not sure about the video - challenging social scripts of clothing in everyday life doesn't strike me as particularly novel. She's definitely got balls for doing it though.

*picks up cup of tea*
*opens hob-nobs*

dropped paint-filled eggs from her vagina to create art

attention grabbing I would say

Can't say I find that in the least bit shocking.....

She's definitely got balls

I thought that was her handbag.

attention grabbing I would say

she can grab me "attention" any day...

I think the last photo shows it all. She is in a dress after, Id imagine, leaving the event. So she wants to cause a stir going to and during but then leave without causing a stir? How does that make any sense? And is she 'natural'? Is she hell! Not a wisp of unsightly hair anywhere. Nor is she fat, has scars, stretch marks, etc. If she were the size of a house she wouldnt be doing that.

I think the last photo shows it all. She is in a dress after, Id imagine, leaving the event. So she wants to cause a stir going to and during but then leave without causing a stir?

I think you're confused about how performance art works. The Blue Man Group don't wear full body stockings at home either.

But I agree that it would have been a more interesting statement if she'd had a "natural" body, rather than being young, model-perfect, plucked, tweaked, pert and silicon-enhanced.

But then I wouldn't have watched the video...

dooge - Member

I think the last photo shows it all. She is in a dress after, Id imagine, leaving the event. So she wants to cause a stir going to and during but then leave without causing a stir? How does that make any sense?

Singers talk when they're not performing.
Comedians aren't funny all the time.

Can I ask if any of you guys have ever been "checked out" ?

You get what I mean by that, right?

You get what I mean by that, right?

Prostate exam?

Ms Feltz?

She is in a dress after, Id imagine, leaving the event. So she wants to cause a stir going to and during but then leave without causing a stir?

She was asked to dress:
"During the hour-long journey to the event, Moiré walked down the street, rode the bus and lined up for a ticket to enter the venue as passers-by stared and took photographs—her stunt came to an end when she was ordered by the authorities to put on clothes or leave."

Nor is she fat, has scars, stretch marks, etc.

So you're saying that every young woman has to be fat, scarred and has stretch marks? It's arguable that could be seen as discrimination.

Can I ask if any of you guys have ever been "checked out" ?

You get what I mean by that, right?

I can think of several meanings...? 😕

Dusseldorf-based Swiss performance artist Milo Moiré, who previously dropped paint-filled eggs from her vagina to create art,

😯

I think this bit of nudity is not so much art but a protest at how bloody expensive Basel is.

Can I ask if any of you guys have ever been "checked out" ?

*sigh* Not for the want of trying 🙁 But that's another story.

Are you asking "Is it Art ?"

Yes...no...maybe. Isn't it all down to individual interpretation ?

Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio, Pablo Picasso, Marcel Duchamp, Yves Klein, and Gilbert and George to name but a few Artist who have used shock tactics to challenge the concept of Normal.

Haven't we already done this ?

Not sure about the video - challenging social scripts of clothing in everyday life doesn't strike me as particularly novel. She's definitely got balls for doing it though.

Pretty much my take on it.

I understand what she's saying, but it so happens she gets a massive amount of exposure (no pun intended) as an artist too. But then I guess the two go hand-in-hand.

Haven't we already done this ?

More than likely. This is STW.

Question is - does she drive an Audi? 😉

So - challenging the accepted 'normal' or just grabbing attention?

The whole idea of performance art is to grab attention. It's only then you can challenge opinion. (And make money - which isn't going to happen with no audience).

Seems fair to me. I find it mad that we hide ourselves to the extent we do. It's nothing new of course. But fair play to her for doing it.

Not every woman has to be seen or is that no, by a long shot she is probably slightly slimmer than what people would think is the 'norm' but depends on how you judge the 'norm'. However, she knows that if she were, it would not have had the same effect. Would everyone on here have said the same thing? Or would people be talking about how she shouldnt be naked because of her appearance? I get that discriminiation works both ways. I am not saying there is anything wrong if she were either way, just pointing out that people wouldnt act the same if she were of a larger build.

I didnt realise she was asked to put her dress on. But makes sense that they would.

So you're saying that every young woman has to be fat, scarred and has stretch marks?

No, I think the point is that a young "perfect" woman getting naked [i]isn't[/i] remotely provocative or "challenging the socially acceptable norm" at all. It [i]IS[/i] the social norm and she is entirely complicit.

Nor is she fat

Being fat is the norm/natural? Apart from the fake boobs (which she didn't need), she's pretty normal for a young woman. A little bit more attractive than average....you probably can't see any stretch marks because of how pale she is and the low res of the shots.

Shaving your face isn't natural either, but lots of men do it.

I do agree with Graham though, it's completely banal. Plenty of men and women have done this before.

Can I ask if any of you guys have ever been "checked out" ?

Technically I've been sexually assaulted by a fat woman in a club, I think that counts. I'd have never lived it down with my friends if I'd reported it though. I've been checked out by women in my late teens, early twenties by other women my age and I have girl mates who have been known to try and guess the size of man parts by looking at the blokes trousers.

Graham S, kinda hit the nail on the head.

She's quite well proportioned and easy on the eye. I can't help thinking her act would have had more impact if she had been an average fat bloater.

I think the point is that a young "perfect" woman getting naked [i]isn't[/i] remotely provocative

There is an entire world of provocation which is to do with getting naked and insisting that the reason you're doing that is not in any way to provoke a sexual response.

Assuming that you claim that an act has meaning which is related to the intention of the actor rather than the construction of the act by a witness or subject of it, then wandering about stark naked just for the sake of being naked is pretty unusual. Almost all female nakedness and near-nakedness is sexualised.

If she was trying to make that point by trying to show non sexual female nudity, why was she wearing mahooisve heels?

Tom_W1987 - Member
If she was trying to make that point by trying to show non sexual female nudity, why was she wearing mahooisve heels?

How would people feel if I was to do the same in the streets of London?
I'm a short fat guy. Would I be considered art?

why was she wearing mahooisve heels?

Or emphasising her sexuality with make-up? Or enhancing it with shaving and surgery?

Nothing wrong with these things but they are all part of the same social norms she is claiming to challenge.

If you want to see someone naked who is [i]actually[/i] challenging social norms then try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough

Would have it been more offensive/threatening if some guy with a massive dong had gone in naked?

emphasising her sexuality with make-up?

That idea is interesting in itself. We're projecting our understanding of why people wear make-up there.

Leaving that aside, on her account of her meaning we're barking up the wrong tree.

[url= https://www.vocativ.com/culture/art-culture/4-questions-nude-artist-milo-moire/ ]"The performance, called “The Script System,” is inspired by the “scripts” theory of cognitive psychology. Each of us knows these scripts that we use every day. In the morning, on the way to work, we act almost automatically, sometimes without awareness of our environment. I wanted to break through this stereotypical everyday blindness."[/url]

Why would you be in your daily routine at an art show? Is she a moron? How about walking up the M25 naked at 8am, then photograph the resultant carnage as dozens of balding horny IT workers crash into each other... and then publish it in Time magazine.

It is absurd, gratuitous, trite and desperate

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2014/apr/22/artist-eggs-vagina-paintings-performance-art-milo-moire ]Jonathan Jones in the Grauniad on her "plopeggs" vagina-egg-painting efforts[/url]

If that's where she puts her bra I think she's missing the purpose of it.

No, I think the point is that a young "perfect" woman getting naked isn't remotely provocative or "challenging the socially acceptable norm" at all. It IS the social norm and she is entirely complicit.

Not in public it isn't, which I believe is the point here.

But point taken. I would be interested to know if she'd do it if she were bigger. But then the alternative maybe that she's worked hard to gain that figure to build the confidence to undertaken the stunt in the first place, (which would make sense). Which then semi-defeats the point... Or does it?

OK, my brain is starting to fry now.

There are places where nudity normal. Cap d'Agde for example.

The Nudist beach in Harlech too

I was once checked out by two women in the foyer of Newcastle Central Travelodge.

To be fair, I was wearing nothing but a polystyrene chip carton for clothing at the time.

🙂

If she was to challenge social scripts of getting dressed why wear heels and a bag? Why do your hair and makeup? Why paint clothing names on your body when people know where they go?

If she was stouter, had hair where hair grows, no makeup and didnt look like she was just out of a fashion magazine maybe she would have been taken more seriously.

That's my kind of art :b

Why paint clothing names on your body when people know where they go?

😆

That idea is interesting in itself. We're projecting our understanding of why people wear make-up there.

Perhaps, but I don't think she applied it to appear [i]less[/i] attractive.

Art is that which is defined as such.

So it would still be art without the bodypaint.

But not as obvious.
Or media friendly.

I don't think it's very good.
If you can encapsulate an entire point in one sentence, waltzing around in the nip isn't going to make it any more obvoius.

Art works for me when it attempts to express the inexpressable.
Not to make a simple point in an overly contrived manner.

I was expecting a thread about tollah...gosh I miss his little ginger tubby attention whore antics

Stunning model looks (with not so stunning fake boobs IMO) walking about in a place where hardly an eyebrow is raised. Yawn. Contrived? Agreed. Nice shoes tho 🙂

You see this stuff in fashion magazines any old day so don't find it too 'challenging' personally, but then again I don't find nudity challenging in general - call it my age but been to so-called nude beaches in france etc when younger so am acclimatised. On the flipside, I would hate to live in a country where this kind of art caused some kind of uproar, don't get me wrong...so my yawn is a contented one!

How would people feel if I was to do the same in the streets of London?
I'm a short fat guy. Would I be considered art?

Yep, if you had a video crew and some hipster specs on 🙂

You might still get the sh*t kicked out of you tho, or the rozzers tazering you in the nads. Or something. That would then be elevated to hight art. Don't do it, 'civilised' society is still in infancy...and London isn't Dusseldorf...

That reminds me, Dusseldorf is beautiful....must go back some day.