Noticed earlier this week while the engine idles at about 900rpm, there is a rattle/rumble. Sounds like a parcel shelf rattling but coming from the engine bay.
Reving the engine eliminates the noise and the car performs as it always had. The noise almost goes away after its fully warmed up.
I've had a look and cant see or hear anything obvious in the engine bay thinking it could be a loose air filter lid, wire, hose etc. But cant reach much. Checked the undertray and bumper too.
It recently had an outer CV boot replaced so wonder if something has been left loose?
Engine is a 1.2 puretech petrol.
Any ideas on what it could be?
How old is the car? What is the mileage? How frequent are your oil changes? What oil are you using?
Car is 7 years old. 36k miles. Oil changed annually with 5w30.
bonnet prop up support thing. Mine drove me mad for months til i realised it wasnt sitting in the little retaining clip thing properly. Only rattled at idle
It still does it with the bonnet up so cant be that.
Is it a dual mass clutch? They make a noise sometimes that continues for a very short time after the engine is switched off. Depress the clutch at idle and see if that changes the noise.
Pressing the clutch pedal makes no difference.
Has it had the wet belt changed? The wetbelts on these are notorious for shedding rubber that blocks the oil pick-up in the sump. Oil starvation at low revs could be an issue.
I was also going to say heat shield. Really common issue on JLR vehicles. It also happened to my Mitsubishi as well.
When I realised what was making the noise and what the fix was I just used some large jubilee clips to attach it back. I did this about three years ago and it's still going strong
Yes it had the timing belt changed last October. Though the noise only started this week. Could it still be related? Oil levels are all good.Has it had the wet belt changed? The wetbelts on these are notorious for shedding rubber that blocks the oil pick-up in the sump. Oil starvation at low revs could be an issue.
Oil changed annually with 5w30.
Is it the exactly right specification of oil? I'd be getting the cam belt/pick up pipe inspected as a matter of urgency on that engine by a main dealer or specialist, because of what Troutwrestler says.
I've not looked at that. Also cant even see it so might be a pain to get to. I think the exhaust is located at the front of that engine but might be wrong.I was also going to say heat shield. Really common issue on JLR vehicles. It also happened to my Mitsubishi as well.
When I realised what was making the noise and what the fix was I just used some large jubilee clips to attach it back. I did this about three years ago and it's still going strong
The question is did they change/clean the pickup when changing the belt? Check with whoever did the belt change. It is a very well known issue so I would hope they did.
I’ve no experience of that particular engine, does it have hydraulic cam followers?
They can stick and cause rattle at idle. Especially when cold.
Air intakes - loose fit, so check they don't wobble about.
Heatshield. They are typically made of cheese.
I have no idea but would guess they did if it's part of the procedure. If they didn't, they not going to admit it now. Would a clogged pickup cause this noise only at cold idle?The question is did they change/clean the pickup when changing the belt? Check with whoever did the belt change. It is a very well known issue so I would hope they did.
Thats next on my list to check. Just can't see it in there.Heatshield. They are typically made of cheese.
Can you see the alternator belt and is the noise coming from around there? Alternator pulley is often a one way clutch and they can make odd noises / rattles if seized and the belt or tensioner is jiggling about (especially at low revs).
Can see the alternator but the noise seems too be coming from lower down. It sounds like a bouncing parcel shelf in time with the engine. A bit like a rattling cupboard door next to a washing machine. It doesn't sound metallic.
There's also no warning lights coming up. When I start the car, it says "Oil level correct". Always has done.
I've not looked at that. Also cant even see it so might be a pain to get to. I think the exhaust is located at the front of that engine but might be wrong.I was also going to say heat shield. Really common issue on JLR vehicles. It also happened to my Mitsubishi as well.
When I realised what was making the noise and what the fix was I just used some large jubilee clips to attach it back. I did this about three years ago and it's still going strong
Heat shield will be underneath ' start the car - get underneath with a pair of gloves on and see if something stops rattling when you press it ( careful of spinning things)
Engine is a 1.2 puretech petrol.
Sell it tomorrow via WBAC as it's on borrowed time. An okay engine spoilt by the stupid design of putting a nitrile belt in acidic oil just to save the cost and friction of a few shaft seals.
Oil level is immaterial - it's oil pressure or lack of that has possibly lead to crank/rod bearing damage or lack of hydraulic lifter pressure at low rpm. The sump needs to be removed and the pickup gauze checked - doubtful it was done when the timing belt was changed. IIRC the timing belt can be inspected via the oil filler.
Loose heat shields make a tinny / rattly / stones in a biscuit type of noise and are either from the back of the engine near the bulkhead or underneath near the catalyst converter. Occasionally on top of the exhaust manifold.
Alternator pulley one way bearings just tend to throw/damage the aux belt rather than make a particular noise.
AFAIK the os an oil pressure warning light but thats not on.
The noise also stops after the engine has fully warmed up.
Also only does it at about 900rpm. So on a cold start the engine first idles at about 1100rpmband doesn't make the noise. Only when the revs drop down the about 900.
Ah, so this is one of those threads where you ask for advice having already made up your mind.
While I'd not go the nuclear option that Rusty suggests yet, with a potential early warning noise and the reputation of that engine you're really risking a written off lump if you don't get a proper investigation.
I have no idea what the noise is. Just explaining what i can hear and see.
Going to have a look at what has been suggested above. All the bits I can get to anyway. If I can't find/fix the issue I'll book it in somewhere.
Completely different vehicle and engine but i had a simillar recent experience that I couldn't track down, rattle from front of engine lower down. No idea what a parcel shelf rattle sounds like but I suspected a knackered engine mount. Anyway, when I eventually gave up looking I took it to the garage and they found a knackered front pulley, apparently it was a de-coupled front pulley(never heard of them before) and mine had become properly de-coupled and was rattling around. Replacement sorted it.
AFAIK the os an oil pressure warning light but thats not on.
The noise also stops after the engine has fully warmed up.
Also only does it at about 900rpm. So on a cold start the engine first idles at about 1100rpmband doesn't make the noise. Only when the revs drop down the about 900
Hydraulic cam followers will get noisy before the oil pressure warning light comes on.
I’ve had it with engines that had a lot of wear. As the oil gets hot, the oil pressure falls and rattling starts.
Clearly yours is the other way around and quietens as the oil gets hot. So perhaps the oil is restricted by contamination or a blocked strainer until it heats up and thins down.
A sticky hydraulic tappet, lifter, follower or whatever you want to call it, will often be noisy when the oil is cold and quiet with revs and oil temperature.
It could also be an oil supply issue.
The oil takes a fair bit longer than the coolant to reach temperature.
If you ever drive an old car with an oil pressure gauge, you can watch the oil pressure vary with oil temperature and revs.
Pure guesswork obviously.
Get a car stethoscope and start poking around with the probe to get you closer to the sound emitter. It’s remarkably effective for isolating noises when a car is stationary.
Did a lot of poking around yesterday afternoon and oddly the noise wasn't happening.
This morning however, the noise is back and still there after a 30 min drive. Just odd that there are no performance issues while driving. So, I'm booking it it somewhere and just hope it doesn't die before then.
So, I'm booking it in to WBAC and just hope it doesn't die before i get it there.
fixed it for you. The comment - not the Pureshite, I’m not that brave!
Thats a helpful comment.
It's booked in for Friday this week. Checked the oil again this evening and can smell petrol in there so something could be leaking. Really hope its not dead. Got quite a few bike trips/events this year.
If it is dead ill be looking for a small ish used van. Though don't want diesel. Need ot for lots of short trips.
Thats a helpful comment.
Checked the oil again this evening and can smell petrol in there so something could be leaking.
Piston rings have gummed up with carbon or failed, fuel is washing past the pistons/rings and getting into the sump. #2 design flaw with Pureshite engines after #1 design flaw of sticking a timing belt in oil. Refer to previous helpful comment (before impending failure of the engine).
Perhaps the most helpful comment,
https://www.stellantis.com/en/contacts/puretech-compensation-platform
Get it booked into a main dealer for diagnosis before it grenades itself
Check crank pulley bonded harmonic balancer and bolt tightness, if reasonable price just ask for it to be replaced during a check over.
Whilst id be checking the other stuff thst could be spendy if it went wrong... I had an annoying rattle at idle on my diesel Kuga thst went away as soon as the revs went up little. Took ages to suss out the problem. Thought it was the bonnet resonating for ages as I could see the back edge vibrating.
Finally sussed it out... it was simply one of the hard plastic windscreen washer pipes that runs through the cavity in the bonnet rattling. Shifted it a bit and problem gone since.
It’s a puretech with the wet belt and smell of fuel in the oil - it’s ****ed.
However Stallantis have extended the cover of these shit engines.
I don’t think the OP has seen my link in the post above but they need to get it to a main dealer for diagnosis.
Quote
”
A warranty extension for previous generations of the PureTech 1.0 and 1.2 engines is implemented since March 2024, covering 100% of the costs for up to 10 years or 180,000 kilometers for both parts and labor, under certain conditions.
If you had repair expenses with these engines due to excessive oil consumption and/or premature degradation of the timing belt between January 1, 2022 and December 31, 2024, you may be entitled to financial compensation.
An online platform is available to enable you to submit your case online and provide the documents required for the assessment.
Conditions for this special compensation policy can be consulted here.
To submit your claim, please access this page.”