[Closed] Capitalism, who agree's with the system or farce, who doesn't?

I agree 100% with you.

I don't think it works .......

How is it 'not working' ?

What are the alternatives?

kaesae, I think your argument is undermined by your incorrect use of apostrophes in the word 'agrees'.

But to get away from the pedantry...if you can show that the arguments for capitalism are 'b******s' then I invite you to do so.

It is has a role, but when it gets out of control who knows what could happen.

Capitalism comes in many different form. It is also a dynamic system. I expect when we look back in 50 + year this period will be seen as a time of adjustment.

in 50 years we will look back and think "damn that Marx geezer had some good things to say"

capitalism is a load of bollox

romantically I yearn for something different. What that is I don't know. But we, that being everyone really need to shift our behaviour. Capitalism produces waste on a massive scale and that ain't good for anyone (well except the few at the top).

remind me again what you do for a living ?
I am with ernie it is working brilliantly the rich are very rich and we are in chains with enough trinkets to only get worked up about oil prices rather than the inequitous spread of wealth and income.
Works a treat
here for you

have you thought of China ot the people's republic of korea...not sure how open they are on immigration but on the plus point you will have limited access to the internt 😉

All maggots! (both capitalist or etc)

I step on you.

😈

I don't think it works and that all of the arguments for it are bollocks and can be shown, to be so!

I dont. I think that while it is not perfect, it is the best method we have of distributing limited goods and resources among the population.

Try to say something positive Kaesae. Tell us what you think the world should do as an alternative. Or answer my question in the other thread about what other place in the world, at any point in history, you would rather be living in compared to today's capitalist system.

You keep saying that capitalism is bad yet I haven't heard a single suggestion from you as to what would be better.

in 50 years we will look back and think "damn that Marx geezer had some good things to say"

Any form of government will be flawed when people get involved,

Funny, a load of middle class, middle aged mountinbikers denouncing capitalism whilst smilutaneously contemplating which bit of overpriced, unnecessary piece of mountainbike gear to buy - because it's this years stuff and it'll make such a difference to their lives.

Yeah, down with capitalism...

I wonder how many of them are closet tory voters too...

Lets hear it for home counties anarchists..

Steady on Loddrik, I've not denounced capitalism, I'm not quite middle aged nor middle class (I might be, I don't really know what it means) and I don't live in the home counties.
You'll also [i]really[/i] upset the communists who hide under the socialism banner that this forum seems to be blighted by.

Yes down with capitalism - I don't believe in it either, and don't start me on the whole bollocks about gravity.

How did that computer get put in front of you again ?

How did that computer get put in front of you again ?

Pwned. Or whatever it is teh yoof iz saying on teh interwebz these days! 🙂

How did that computer get put in front of you again ?

Capitalism? Utterly discredited in here regularly. Which is the only court I recognise.

How did that computer get put in front of you again ?

Chinese state owned company ?

http://www.exportdeck.com/2724502/aboutus.shtml

Assumption leads to ignorance and ignorance = stupidity 😉

No need to beat yourself up.

What is the make of the computer ?

How did you earn the money to buy it ?

it is a pointless argument to say we owe all our possesions to capitalism given it is a mixed system but it will be true for al lof us. Shoudl he starve to death to prove a point ...easy there STW rhetorical.
iirc he does own his own business which seems an odd choice for an anti-capitalist.

Fueled - Member

I don't think it works and that all of the arguments for it are bollocks and can be shown, to be so!

I dont. I think that while it is not perfect, it is the best method we have of distributing limited goods and resources among the population.

Try to say something positive Kaesae. Tell us what you think the world should do as an alternative. Or answer my question in the other thread about what other place in the world, at any point in history, you would rather be living in compared to today's capitalist system.

You keep saying that capitalism is bad yet I haven't heard a single suggestion from you as to what would be better.

What other time in history, any where they air is not foul and toxic, any where the majority of people you come across are not stressed out and miserable.

Any, where humanity has not become to depraved that it is raping the planet it lives on and puts money, wealth and power above being human!

You argue that we should be happy with capitalism because it has provided all the technology we own and the advancement of our race, you argue that fighting amongst ourselves is the best way to get thing done, rather than working together ❓

Can you prove that we would not have gotten this far without capitalism or that had it not been for the church, then the governments and now big business's intereference with the development and evolution of our race, that we would not already have walked amongst the stars ❓

Your arguments assume a great deal, althought they show intellect they also show that you have a limited capacity for logic and reason. If capitalism worked we would be in a better possition as a species. You are arguing that our current circumstances as a race is some how a good thing?

Anyone that believes that technology is more important than humanity is a screen brain!

1/10

iirc he does own his own business which seems an odd choice for an anti-capitalist.

How is it odd ? .........he lives in a capitalist system.

I have mostly worked for other people (and indeed large capitalist enterprises) despite personally rejecting Capitalism as an acceptable economic model, but I see no contradiction.

It is completely impossible to divorce yourself from a system which you live in.

For better or for worse, the only thing that will outlast capitalism is TJ and Z-11 arguing about it.

ernie_lynch - Member

It is completely impossible to divorce yourself from a system which you live in.

is capitalism the same as communism ❓

Here's how you fix capitalism, lets call it ultra capitalism.

1) The people who are involved in it should share in the profits and benefits, for example the money that a company earns, each individual should be paid based on how much they earn the company. That way you have a motivated work force.

If an employee comes up with an idea to make the company more efficient and profitable without detrimentally effecting the service, they should be paid a percentage of the profits gained from the procedures, practices or idea's.

2) Those of us that buy products or services should be looking to only deal with companies that show us where the money is going, if companies invest the money they make in the lives of the people involved we should support them, if not we should simply deny them our custom.

3) We need to invest a percentage of our races resources into effective management of all of our races resources. We need to ensure that everything is done as efficiently as possible and that we get the most out of every endevour.

This cannot happen under normal capitalism, however something must be done, as our situation is growing more dire by the day. The climate is changing, we have no idea why ❓

We are seeing more and more unsettled weather conditions, even here in the UK, what will it take for all of us to wake up ❓

Live somewhere else?

That's an option, but you would no longer be divorcing yourself from the system which you live in........Junkyard's point was that kaesae owns his own business - not that he doesn't live in another country.

Any, where humanity has not become to depraved that it is raping the planet it lives on and puts money, wealth and power above being human!

but this is what humans do ergo it is being human. Your belief of what a human should be is no more valid than anyone elses in the absence of an instruction manual.

Your arguments assume a great deal

And so do yours. Yours is no more valid than anyone elses.

Hi BTW - 8).

Live somewhere else?

Torminalis - Member
1/10

00000000.1/10000000000000000 😯

By human thebikechain I mean the condition, the physical and mental attibutes, rather than being obsessed with money, wealth or power, we need to pay more attention to quality of life and self development.

A great deal of time is spent on the aquisition of all of the above, but very little is being spent on self exploration or expression.

As for my argument not being more valid than anyone elses ❓ of course it is, it's mine 😉

Play me the worlds smallest violin...

What other time in history, any where they air is not foul and toxic,

any where the majority of people you come across are not stressed out and miserable.

Any, where humanity has not become to depraved that it is raping the planet it lives on and puts money, wealth and power above being human!

You argue that we should be happy with capitalism because it has provided all the technology we own and the advancement of our race, you argue that fighting amongst ourselves is the best way to get thing done, rather than working together

Can you prove that we would not have gotten this far without capitalism or that had it not been for the church, then the governments and now big business's intereference with the development and evolution of our race, that we would not already have walked amongst the stars

Your arguments assume a great deal, althought they show intellect they also show that you have a limited capacity for logic and reason.

If capitalism worked we would be in a better possition as a species.

You are arguing that our current circumstances as a race is some how a good thing?

Anyone that believes that technology is more important than humanity is a screen brain!

I'm still waiting to hear your suggestion of what you think would be a better alternative. In the video you linked to, even renowned academic David Harvey rightly pointed out some huge flaws, but still said he didn't know what system could be better.

To be honest if you want to see real communism go to hardcore capitalism country. UK suits that bill very well. And vice versa.

Been there done that. Ex-citizen of USSR. If you've heard how it was to live under iron curtain, could share few stories with you. You would be amazed how different it was compared to Capitalist model of living.

To be honest if you want to see real communism go to hardcore capitalism country. UK suits that bill very well. And vice versa.

I don't wish to be rude, but that does not make any sense to me 😕

+1 fuelled.

ernie - I know you revel in your "smarts not from books" pedigree, but can I recommend you read "Nothing to Envy". Just finished it. A brilliant, personalised telling of life in North Korea. Fascinating and moving. I think you'd appreciate the quality of journalism.
[img] [/img]

Fueled - Member
Play me the worlds smallest violin...

why not just play a normal one and turn the volume down ❓

What other time in history, any where they air is not foul and toxic,

The air isn't toxic at all, you're just trying to be poetic.

ever heard of polution ❓ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution

any where the majority of people you come across are not stressed out and miserable.
you need to find a new set of mates who appreciate life.

All of my friends are fit and healthy and great to be around, it's the people I see when I go about my day to day business, everyone rushing around, without any direction, not good.

Any, where humanity has not become to depraved that it is raping the planet it lives on and puts money, wealth and power above being human!

Humans have always depended on the resources of the planet. With the booming population, we require more of these resources. This is not the fault of capitalism.

Not the fault of capitalism no, but under capitalism it is being exploited and abused. We take as much as we can and give as little as possible back!

You argue that we should be happy with capitalism because it has provided all the technology we own and the advancement of our race, you argue that fighting amongst ourselves is the best way to get thing done, rather than working together

Bit of rivalry & competition between teams, corporations or nations is an excellent way to motivate people. It wasn't the US and Russia working together that put man on the moon.

They could have done twice as much for half the money had they worked together.

Can you prove that we would not have gotten this far without capitalism or that had it not been for the church, then the governments and now big business's intereference with the development and evolution of our race, that we would not already have walked amongst the stars

Of course I can't prove it. But I can point to other countries which tried systems other than capitalism and didn't do so well.

Perhaps but capitalism still needs to change or else the future for us all is looking very uncertain.

Your arguments assume a great deal, althought they show intellect they also show that you have a limited capacity for logic and reason.

Ok, give me a good example of your superior capacity for logic and reason...

Very well, optimum efficiency is required in all things, if we are to recognize our full potential 😀

If capitalism worked we would be in a better possition as a species.

That's neither logical nor reasonable

I disagree, we can judge the value of a system or form of management by it's ability to benefit those individuals involved with it. Under capitalism we are seeing a rise in crime, a rise in mental ill health, and a complete disregard for quality of life.

If we do not judge the system on the effect it has on the lives of those involved, how will we judge it ❓

You are arguing that our current circumstances as a race is some how a good thing?

Yes. I for one cant think of a better time to be alive than the 21st century. As I said before, we have problems looming, like overpopulation and terrorists trying to get hold of nuclear weapons, but capitalism is not to blame.

Those terrorists are the back lash of global war mongering and arms dealing ❓

We work longer and longer hours for less and less money. This is only good compared to how crap it was in the past or how horrendous the condition else where, what about how good life could be, will it get better under capitalism ❓

Anyone that believes that technology is more important than humanity is a screen brain!

I agree. So what?

hallelujah!

I'm still waiting to hear your suggestion of what you think would be a better alternative. In the video you linked to, even renowned academic David Harvey rightly pointed out some huge flaws, but still said he didn't know what system could be better.

We need a whole new form of capitalism, that isn't short sighted or controlled by fools.

Capitalism: flawed, deeply flawed.

However no one has yet come up with a better, workable, model.

(Fueled +1)