[Closed] Can you tell your 'class' from your possessions. . .

1 out of 16. the telly. keep the red flag flying.

It's a bit of shit. statistics- especially from no. 4 onwards Does it mean that if you own any of the items from the list that you are NOT middle class ?

1. Smart TV (owned by 42% of middle class households)

2. Dyson vacuum cleaner (owned by 38% of middle class households)

3. Barbeque (owned by 31% of middle class households)

4. Vinyl records (owned by 17% of middle class households)

5. iMac (owned by 12% of middle class households)

6. Nutribullet (owned by 11% of middle class households)

7. Antler or Samsonite luggage (owned by 10% of middle class households)

8. Wood burning stove (owned by 9% of middle class households)

9. Spiralizer (owned by 8% of middle class households)

10. Mulberry bag (owned by 5% of middle class households

11. Matching coasters (owned by 5% of middle class households)

12. Boiling water taps (owned by 4% of middle class households)

13. Hot tub (owned by 4% of middle class households)

14. Aga range cooker (owned by 4% of middle class households)

15. Smeg fridge (owned by 4% of middle class households)

16. Brompton bike (owned by 3% of middle class households)

If only 3% of middle class households own a Brompton then surely it's a fairly rare thing, unless my undesrstanding of numbers an' that is rubbish. As Bromptons are for commuting and the upper classes don't need to work then it seems like 97% of Bropmtons are owned by blue collar workers.

Lobby +1 looks like they were scraping the content barrel for that.

I'm almost certainly "middle class" by education, background and career path (although dad's side of the family are more from a skilled labour background) but I don't subscribe to the social climbing, status and stuff based clap trap that everyone seems to attribute to that class.

What was that comment about the BBQ about? Ffs it's just a cooker that you can use in the sunshine and/or to make nice smokey things in. It's not a bloody lifestyle accessory.

If the definition of middle class is just someone with too much disposable income who buys the latest gadget fad, then this list is a pretty accurate guide.*

*Apart from all the couple of items I own off it, which are of course necessities in the modern age.

And Dyson instead of Miele? I don't think so.

What did you have for your Tea?

You mean with your tea?
Why a digestive biscuit of course.

You must be a light eater.

Tea is (1) an excellent drink and (2) pie and chips before 730pm.

Smart TV, but it's a cheapo Hitachi 32"
Dyson, but it's a DC01

That's it.

You're only working class if you stopped going to football when they made you sit down.

We're definitely middle class, I don't need a list to tell me that.

None,

Working Class, will always be working class.

'Middle Class' is a propaganda excorsize invented by the rich to get working class people to vote for policies that benefit the rich, by telling them "hey, you're rich too, don't let [i]those[/i] people hold you back, don't let [i]those[/i] people take our money, don't let [i]those[/i] people run the country".

If you don't have to work to make your way through life, you're upper class,

If you have to work to make your way through life, you're working class because however well you think you've done for yourself, you're only a decent doze of bad luck away from the bottom and no amount of Smart TVs or Bromptons will save you.

A smart TV? I thought middle classes eschew television in favour of bracing walks in the day and a game scrabble in the evening.

I have quite a few of those things... but I work manually most of the time, and in person poo.

Does the latter counter the list???

😉

New thread title needed

Can [s]you[/s] we tell your 'class' from your [s]possessions[/s] confessions . .

I'm middle class apparently. Well, actually I would class myself as middle class - its not a bad thing is it?

3/16. I'm still middle class though. Even though I was the first person in my family to do an A-level, my grandparents were train drivers and housemaids, and I've never earned the average wage for my age, I'm still middle class.

and Hot tubs are a [b]vastly[/b] expensive luxury item - how is that possibly not middle class? 😆

these things always amuse me as folk claim to be working class when they clearly are not. They might have working class roots ( I do) but so many folk claim to be working class when they are not

this x 1000000. I generally think that people who insist the most vigourously on forums (or the guardian comments pages) about how they're [I]definitely not middle class[/I] doth protest way, way too much.

this x 1000000. I generally think that people who insist the most vigourously on forums (or the guardian comments pages) about how they're definitely not middle class doth protest way, way too much.

As the conditions for entry into this completely made up group of people is ownership of a short collection of consumer items, I guess you can be whatever you want to be. Well not upper class though, that is a private club that doesn't accept new member often, if at all.

Hot tubs are middle class? Ok then hahaha!

I've just nipped to the 24 hour garage and made myself middle class! Who said social mobility in Britain was dead? Stella anyone? 😀

[img] [/img]

Just the job if Greggs is shut.

these things always amuse me as folk claim to be working class when they clearly are not.

Surely, by definition, if you [i]have[/i] to work for a living then you're working class?

No matter what you tell yourself? Its only the independently wealthy who don't [i]need[/i] too who aren't

Trying to elevate yourself above that 'working class' label (oh the shame!) by virtue of what supermarket you shop at, while paying a premium to do so, and sneering at those who can't/don't/won't play the same silly game, just has you down as a desperately insecure, status-obsessed mug whos ripe for exploitation by marketeers who are sat back laughing their tits off at your desperate Hyacinth Bouquet-esque neurosis, and delusions of grandeur?

They're the ones who cooked up the whole 'middle class' thing in the first place, so they can flog you shiny, overpriced things you don't need. Preferably on credit

[img] /revision/latest?cb=20110519214122[/img]

Surely, by definition, if you have to work for a living then you're working class?

No matter what you tell yourself? Its only the independently wealthy who don't need too who aren't

isn't that a bit reductive though? Then you basically have the aristocracy plus a few of the older STWers here who could retire if they wanted to flog the Porsche and the buy to let, and everyone else.

I consider myself middle class because I work indoors in a job that isn't dangerous. If I lost this job, I could probably find another office job for £20K that I could do. Which means that, compared to those at the real sharp end, I'm pretty insulated from the worst of it. And I'm hugely grateful for that.

It does beg the question of what 'classes' are actually [I]for[/I] in 2016 though. Obviously the labour movement was needed because working people needed a voice, at a time when the middle class was very small. And now the situation has changed dramatically - though with the rise of zero hour jobs and automation, we may find large swathes of people being dragged down an economic rung and towards financial precariousness once again. So perhaps it will become more relevant again, soon?

I still pull firewood out of skips though. My parents taught me well 😆

I've got loads of records. But I certainly ain't got no class.

Personally I think its all 'divide and rule' stuff. Convince those slightly better educated/higher earners/a bit luckier, that they are a class above 'the workers, then you've less chance of any solidarity forming.

Call it 'aspirational' and you can even charge them a premium to do it

Then decimate the pay and conditions of the working class by removing/outsourcing the jobs/industries they depend on

Its no coincidence to me that it was in the 80's that we had the whole middle class being pushed. And what does it mainly focus on? Possessions. Aspiration. Stuff. While they simultaneously dismantled the old working class heavy industries.

its going to be interesting now that technology/outsourcing starts to increasingly shrink what is now referred too as the middle class

We've all been duped. By shiny stuff we don't need, payed for on credit. IMHO. By those who most definitely aren't working or middle class, who are happy to supply the lines of credit

We're like some bunch of isolated natives in the jungle, dazzled by shiny beads

Ah, class.

Surely the most British of the self imposed, fearful, curtain twitching paranoias we use to limit ourselves?

One thing's for sure, you can't buy it.

Be here now, folks.
🙂

Those items define you as 'nouveau riche' / 'new money', most certainly not middle class.

Pjay / doris - thats the marxist definition of class - those who own capital and those who merely have their labour to sell.

socioeconomic class ie working / middle / upper is defined by your education and your job mainly with some influence on your upbringing. Its nothing to do with wealth. for example a lorry driver would be working class despite earning more than a middle class nurse

dragon - Member

Those items define you as 'nouveau riche' / 'new money', most certainly not middle class.

True Dragon. But its academic really. As I doubt the people who aspire to it could tell you the difference. And thats a blurring of boundaries that's been deliberately created

[img] [/img]

isn't that a bit reductive though? Then you basically have the aristocracy [i]plus a few of the older STWers here who could retire if they wanted to flog the Porsche and the buy to let[/i], and everyone else.

But, really, when it boils down to it, that's all you have.

I think we assume that because we talk a certain way, act a certain way and do certain things that make us 'middle class' we're insulated from hitting rock bottom, but it's an illusion.

For the 'upper class' this might be true, it's more than just money, it's a real, proper club when you don't have to worry about paying bills or keeping a roof over your head because if push comes to shove one of your old mates from your posh school will throw you a job, or your uncle owns half of Shrewsbury and you can lodge at one of his places until it all blows over.

For the rest of us, it’s all very fragile, you might be Mr. Upper Management, driving your 5 series from your office back to your 4-bed detached in the suburbs, but you’ve got a lifestyle, not some cast-iron right to all of that, it can all be taken away – the 2008 crash saw a lot of people reminded, in very stark terms that it wasn’t their right to be ‘wealthy’, I’ve seen something as relatively mundane as a ill thought out affair, drink driving conviction or in my case a badly timed accident right after a redundancy bring someone who on the face of it ‘had it all’ down to the Council looking for emergency accommodation.

For the 99%, however well you did at school, however glittering your career or how many Dysons you own, you are living on your wits – you leave the safety of your family home at 21 or whatever and you’re on your own. If you work hard and you’re lucky you might get to the point when you can weather a pretty decent sized storm for, a month, 2 months, 6 months? A year out of work? I think that would be a long-stretch for most people, and if you’re lucky you might just reach the point when you don’t have to work anymore before you’re too worn out for anything but a state pension and day time TV, but most don’t/

If you have to work, you’re working class, don’t be fooled into thinking because you’ve worked hard and can buy a Smart TV now that firstly you have to buy one so everyone else knows you’ve worked hard, or it some way you’re special, you’re not – you might have marketable skills, you might be paid for your ideas and not just because you’re cheaper than a robot, but you’re just slightly better paid working class, don’t be fooled into thinking you’re rich and should start voting and acting accordingly.

'Middle Class' is a propaganda excorsize invented by the rich to get working class people to vote for policies that benefit the rich, by telling them "hey, you're rich too, don't let those people hold you back, don't let those people take our money, don't let those people run the country".
If you don't have to work to make your way through life, you're upper class,
If you have to work to make your way through life, you're working class because however well you think you've done for yourself, you're only a decent doze of bad luck away from the bottom and no amount of Smart TVs or Bromptons will save you.

Agreed

I work. I drive an 11 year old banger. I have a mortgage. I don't go on holidays abroad. I don't have loads of hi-tec stuff.

I do view every human the same. Either a good guy or a ****

meh!

i scored 4 so apparently i'm a little middle class...utter bollocks!!
i doubt it makes a difference if i had all of the items on that list...i know i'm from a working class background and no amount of money will change that for me...i'm working class and dare i say it...i'm proud of that fact

Rather hoping not to be classed as vulgar! but borderline - does the woodburner have to be a stove? 😉 Inherited that though from previous.

What is a smeg fridge?

What happens if people are paid annually?

P-Jay your analysis is too simplistic as there is a middle class who don't necessarily have to work, but do and are still a long way from upper class. Think older doctors, lawyers, vets, accountants, also add in some engineers, scientists and professors. But it is also a mindset thing, that can rather simplistically be defined as learning on the tools, vs learning on via formal education.

What is a smeg fridge?

A fridge

+1 for Binners.

What is a smeg fridge?

A fridge

A smeg fridge is a device for refrigerating smeg. A Smeg fridge, is a refrigerator made by the German firm Smeg.

I own 2 or 3 of the items on the list - smart TV and BBQ, and some of my coasters match each other, but they don't all match.

I also have a Masters degree and teach physics in a sixth form college. I'm pretty sure that makes me middle class?

right, let's get the middle class list sorted properly then. Some or more of the following, perhaps?

- more than one property

- an item of furniture that's older than your parents

- numerous Penguin classics books, or any volumes of poetry. Or a coffee-table book

- an old radio that doesn't get used for anything other than Radio 4

- sandals

- an item of expensive outdoor gear that only gets used to walk the dog

- a watch that cost more than £100 <-- value may need tweaking, watchists please advise

- any coffee related equipment (besides kettle) that needs plugging in

- uncarpeted wood floors

- various car options. German estate? Anything 4wd? Anything that costs more than a year's average wage?

dragon - Member

P-Jay your analysis is too simplistic as there is a middle class who don't necessarily have to work, but do and are still a long way from upper class. Think older doctors, lawyers, vets, accountants, also add in some engineers, scientists and professors. But it is also a mindset thing, that can rather simplistically be defined as learning on the tools, vs learning on via formal education.

IMO Simple is honest, the British class system isn't complex, it's simple bar the 'middle' bit where it's vague, there aren't any rules for 'middle class'.

I think I covered your example in my million-word rant, they're well paid working class, that's it. I might accept ‘Professionals’ as they most sit in the old stated professions.

"if you’re lucky you might just reach the point when you don’t have to work anymore"

They’ve lived on their wits like the rest of us and played the game well, well done they’ve amassed enough wealth that they’re less likely to hit the bottom. I know former Brick layers and Train Drivers who’ve done the same.

Where I think we agree, is that "it is also a mindset".

Really, in my opinion that's ALL it is, a mindset, the middle class strive to prove they're better than the rest of the working class and when they try to prove it, all they come up with are these laughable examples - the right brand of Vacuum, the TV with a bit of an OS built into it, the right funny little folding bike, it borders on fashion, like the Courtiers of Versailles I see some devout followers of the middle class way clamber to the latest cookware, technology, organic nonsense and wear it like ah oh no, nearly subtle, badge, until someone they think beneath them jumps on the bandwagon and they drop it like it's hot.

If you want to be middle class, that’s up to you, there is no rules for entry, just say you’re middle class and you are – others may refuse to accept your position, comparing various unwritten point scoring systems unfavourably with their own score, but for me it’s a fool’s paradise. It might make you feel a little bit smug that you’re “lower middle class” when your old school friends are working class, but cringe when your kids drop their H’s when you’re putting on a silly posh voice to talk to your “upper middle class” friends, it’s not real though, it doesn’t mean anything – the Political Class has a little giggle about you behind closed doors, as you vote for policies that keep them where they are and wealthy because you’re so proud of your little slice of the cake that you think that the person who lives half a mile away from you in the “rough estate” is either lazy, trying to rob you, or both.

I refuse to play, I work, I work hard sometimes, I have a good job, a have a few nice things that I want, but I couldn’t give a flying monkey **** who approves of them, and who doesn’t. I live in a lovely house, a nice “middle class” area, I’m from a “very desirable upper middle class” village, but I know it’s not real, and I won’t buy into this middle class BS, I've had it all taken away from me once, there aren't special nice queues in the job centre and I'll never vote for anyone who openly despises the working class like so many of them do now, they call them 'lazy' they call them 'scroungers' because it makes the masses think their interests lay on the same side as the political class and their paymasters.

Nothing makes me more sad than someone who has to work for a living, voting for a politician who wants to take away workers rights, because they some-how think it doesn't apply to them because they're 'middle class', we don't have special workers rights for middle management, we're just told we do.

Does one talk posh or not. Simple innit?

It's a state of mind.
Visit Peterlee. If you recoil at what you see, you are middle class.

- more than one property [i]not yet[/i]

- an item of furniture that's older than your parents [i]yes[/i]

- numerous Penguin classics books, or any volumes of poetry. Or a coffee-table book [i]yes...well at least the kids do[/i]

- an old radio that doesn't get used for anything other than Radio 4

tuned to radio 1[i]

- sandals [/i]2 pairs[i]

- an item of expensive outdoor gear that only gets used to walk the dog [/i]yes but i dont have a dog[i]

- a watch that cost more than £100 <-- value may need tweaking, watchists please advise [/i]i have several[i]

- any coffee related equipment (besides kettle) that needs plugging in [/i]no[i]

- uncarpeted wood floors [/i]at the old house yes[i]

- various car options. German estate? Anything 4wd? Anything that costs more than a year's average wage? [/i]had a large german 4wd saloon for a few years[i]

oh ball bearings!! 😯

i'm still working class!!

 

😆

maybe we need a tie-breaker. I suggest:

Steven Fry: Discuss.

or perhaps, bit of a trickier one -

Kanye West: Discuss

😉

[quote="gonzy"]

i scored 4 so apparently i'm a little middle class...utter bollocks!!
i doubt it makes a difference if i had all of the items on that list...i know i'm from a working class background and no amount of money will change that for me...i'm working class and dare i say it...i'm proud of that fact

what level of education do you have and what job do you do? these are the things that dictate your class mainly. You may have working class roots but if you have a university eduction and / or a white collar job you have become middle class

uncarpeted wood floors