[Closed] Calling all women bikers & men if they wish to comment too!

How twee. Maybe the trails could be graded Pink, Fushcia and Lavender?

nice idea...are women intimidated or is just a male oriented sport?

you do see more women roadies as a proportion so I am unsure why there seems to be less MTBers?

aw - Member

you do see more women roadies as a proportion so I am unsure why there seems to be less MTBers?

That'll be because they cry at the slightest fall, demand attention from passing male riders and haven't worked out how to pass/be passed by other riders yet... 🙄

Because the vast majority of Mountain Bikers are infantile men who go ga-ga everytime they see a woman with a bike?

I've not once come across a Roadie who would offer the line (and I heard this delivered to a young woman at CyB not so long ago) "I'm a better ride than your bike, love".

I ride with a group of women once a month and this has increased my confidence and put me in touch with other female mountain bikers. I have a better awareness of my local trails now and am happy to pop out on my own when ever I get the chance too!
I have also done a womens only mtb skills day which was also great, and I learnt a few maintanance things to, so I can fix my chain or repair a puncture etc without having to flutter my eyelashes at passers by. 8) Not sure about trails needing to be put together and graded from a womens point of view though, surely thats more about skill than gender?!

fair point, 😯 😀

perhaps if better facilities were provided at trail centres, women might be more comfortable and feel like they belong:

kitchens, laundry and ironing facilities, nail bars, salons, Marks & Spencers, cafes streaming Jeremy Kyle - that kind of thing

It is because of comments like druidh's and the reason IWH mentions women are not so keen on moutain biking. In our club there are only 3 women amongst lots more men who come out regularly, whereas there are many more women in the club. The 3 of us (all tomboys I might add) had suspicions that women are intimidated by the blokes and organised a women's only outing, 18 replies of interest with 10 of them taking part in the end, the others had other appointments already.
The outing was a total success and the atmosphere on the ride was completely different, less competitive and more helpful to each other. The women only day is now a regular monthly feature in the club.
So, as an answer to your question, more women only rides will do, I have not heard from any girl a requirement for any of your other suggestions.

I have met some really nice guys out who were encourging. But do you think more women would MTB if they felt it was not such a male orinetated sport and more was offered to them. I think the women on wheels is a great idea (news).

Off topic I know, but it was nice to see a couple of ladies ride down some descents past some mincing blokes walking yesterday on the Merida. 🙂

Thanks orangina that was a really helpful reply.

I would imagine that a major obstacle is that men and women are socialised differently and that there are still activities and behaviors that are more socially acceptable for men that are less acceptable for women and vice versa. In my experience, a lot of women don't like getting dirty and getting legs and other body parts covered in bruises and cuts. It's never bothered me, but then I was brought up at an outdoor centre and I've never questioned all that's entailed in doing 'outdoor' sports.

When I was less fit I used to worry that I was 'holding the blokes back', but I now figure that that was a personal insecurity as there are many new and less fit riders who are men. I think this fear of looking silly, weak and holding people back is very common in women when they start out and often riding with your partner is the worst way to start as constructive criticism can be taken as negative criticism and start arguments. How you combat that, I'm not sure.

There may be the impression that 'all female' groups are less threatening/competetive, however I've found that 'the boys' I've ridden with have all been courteus, helpful and understanding. I've never felt excluded or mocked, unless it's been banter.

I also don't think you can/should lump 'women' and 'men' together with generalisations though as I've met fluffy male riders who don't like falling off or getting wet and rad gung-ho female riders who do jumps and drops with the best of them. It's down to personality, if you ask me.

Just my thoughts, don't know if that's much help...

chappy1, your welcome.
I have to say I have met really encouraging guys too (my other half Rickmeister is one of them, and man is he patient also !!), but still, on a group ride it is so much about who's fastest/most technical/has the best bike though they would never admit it of course. And on the girsl ride it's just about having fun. And a chocolate cake at the end of it!

Oh, and Druidh is being sarcastic btw, he's very much a womans' man. I've ridden with him a few times and he helped me tear up my petticoats to make bandages and everything!!

Trails put together and graded from a womens perspective

THAT is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read! Women can and do ride anything men can. By all means encourage and support women riders but don't patronise them!

and he helped me tear up my petticoats to make bandages

were a LOT of bandages required ??

Too many dodgy middle-aged Lancastrians with cameras and bottom-fetishes, for ladies to feel safe and unmolested on the trails...

jojoA1, I knew that druidh will have been sarcastic (tho' I don't know him) but some women will still be so insecure that they take this serious, especially beginners. I personally like to answer comments like this, sarcastic or not, by poutdoing them on the trail. But then, I maybe think more like a guy ;-)!

When I was less fit I used to worry that I was 'holding the blokes back', but I now figure that that was a personal insecurity

this is one of the major factors, and it applies to both sexes. There are [b]some[/b] riders who object to being held up (though many of these end up riding on their own) and can be arsey about it, but most people understand and/or are happy to take a rest. I agree it's more of a mental barrier than a real problem.

Too many dodgy middle-aged Lancastrians with cameras and bottom-fetishes, for ladies to feel safe and unmolested on the trails...

thanks for 'middle-aged' RB 🙂
I have never molested anyone on the trails without their explicit invitation :o)

I think the only difference, in that respect, between me and most other men is that I am up front and unconcealed about my appreciation of women. All the others [b]think[/b] the same stuff (or worse) but don't let on...

orangina - Member

jojoA1, I knew that druidh will have been sarcastic (tho' I don't know him) but some women will still be so insecure that they take this serious, especially beginners. I personally like to answer comments like this, sarcastic or not, by poutdoing them on the trail. But then, I maybe think more like a guy ;-)!

You'd [i]easily[/i] outdo me on the trail. Am I thinking like a girl?

[i]There are some riders who object to being held up (though many of these end up riding on their own) and can be arsey about it, but most people understand and/or are happy to take a rest. I agree it's more of a mental barrier than a real problem. [/i]

I have to be honest, I've never met any of these people who get arsey about being held up by slower riders, I agree though, the miserable buggers should go out riding by themselves, like me.... oh.

Oh - and I was referencing [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/glentress-did-everyone-forget-their-manners ]this[/url] thread

Boys are competitive and MTBing brings that out (except in the more jey ones). I've observed that girls socialise better with the jey boys. You could have a monthly "girls and jey-boys" ride.

Actually, of the ladies I know, what do sporty things, they all say what really puts them off, are pushy, impatient blokes. One lady I know went on one of they outdoors adventure thingies through he work, and there was some ex-army tosser shouting at them the whole time. She and the other women came back home after only 2 days of a week-long course, as they just coon't stand his attitude. Had the instructor been female, or a bloke who was a lot less pushy, she said they wooduv enjoyed it.

Me and a couple of mates had a lass from work want to come riding with us, as she said that the womens' group rides she'd been on just weren't challenging, and that she wanted to learn how to improve her skills more. She fell off a few times, got a few scrapes, but loved it.

Most blokes graduate to mtbing from other bikes, like bmxes when they are young. Lots of women might learn to ride a bike when they are young, but don't pursue it as an activity, into adulthood.

The issue is a lot more complex than I can be bothered to go into here, but i see it a bit like this:

You know when you're out for a night, and you go to a club? How many of the blokes are dancing, compared to the women? For most women, it's completely normal to get up and have a dance, yet most blokes have to be encouraged (or get drunk enough) to lose their inhibitions. Dancing is just not a 'blokes' thing, for a lot of men. Quite often, you see men having to be coaxed/dragged onto the dancefloor.

I think it stems from gender stereotyping and reinforcement from an ealy age. We have our clearly defined gender roles and activities, and it can be quite a challenge to overcome certain perceived 'barriers'.

Cycling is still seen as a 'male' activity, sadly. Although I think the disparity is not as great as it was, which is encouraging. More women are taking the plunge, and getting into it. Take Aleigh off here, for example. She only started a year ago, and she loves it! It takes women like her, who are willing to give it a go, to show others that there's little to be afraid of.

As for blokes being able to dance; sorry, ladies, but I don't know how to address that one...

I was riding with some friends in Scotland over Easter. We did see one chap out with his lady friend and I doubt she'll ever get back on a bike again. No sooner had she caught up with him than he'd shoot off again at warp speed. She really wasn't a happy camper and asked us what the trail ahead was like and whether she'd be able to manage it. She was walking a lot of stuff.

I think a lot of what puts people off is experienced riders showing them stuff that's way too technical.

I'm talentless, unfit and gutless now that I'm in my 30's so I tend to go riding on my own so that others don't have to wait for me..... I'm as slow on the downs as I am on the ups.

I have no idea about how to encourage more women on to the trails. More sexual discrimination (ladies only this, that or the other) is not the way though. I think a lot of it is to do with (and this is a generalisation based on my experiences in my shop) men being more willing to spend the cash on a better quality bike that is capable of more than they can do, whereas women tend to want to spend less on a bike and more on the accessories

men being more willing to spend the cash on a better quality bike that is capable of more than they can do

I suppose I used to think this too, but now I ride a 2nd hand hardtail that cost me very little, yet I rarely find the bike wanting. So long as it steers and stops when you need to, and the gears work, everything else is just blingy consumer-tat!

Guilliano - "[i]I think a lot of it is to do with (and this is a generalisation based on my experiences in my shop) men being more willing to spend the cash on a better quality bike that is capable of more than they can do, whereas women tend to want to spend less on a bike and more on the accessories [/i]" - what ? That's why less women come out on the bike ?? Maybe they spend their money different yes, but it's not the reson they don't bike.
And the sexual discrimination thing is not the way ? I thought you'd said you have no idea how to encourage more women out so how do you know this is not the way ?
The idea of women only outings is to increase their confidence and hopefully they will be happy later to go in mixed groups.
And if guys feel discriminated I think they should organise men-only dancing evenings....

To be completely honest - i really don't care if women ride mountain bikes, infact i don't care if men do either. I care if women are riding to slowly and slowing a ride, but that applies to men also,

Riding alone is much better, no one else to be concerned about.

Orangina..... I was simply saying that from the experience I have in the shop I work in the women simply don't want something for the trails.... the majority want a cheap hybrid for town use.

I wasn't debating that women only rides give women confidence. I simply said that more discrimination (womens trails/grading etc) won't really help.

I think a lot of what puts people off is experienced riders showing them stuff that's way too technical.

I don't think the terrain has much to do with it. I lead beginner rides over quite technical sections all the time, but no one criticises the beginners if they have to get off and push for a while. If I chose really anodyne places to ride everyone would be bored. I think it's more about a welcoming, friendly atmosphere and an absence of pressure to perform.

Guilliano,
ok then, I let you off :D, though you didn't say at first that women want a hybrid bike, and i do agree on your second point now in your second post apart from that women only rides are really useful.

I don't realy think there's an issue here.If women want to get into mtb'ing great.But whats all this encouraging buisiness? Just because you realy enjoy something it doesn't mean someone else is going to feel the same about it.Leave the door open for people to come in,but you don't have to push them.

Simon, my comment about show beginners stuff that's too technical was more about people who lead a ride but just expect everyone to be able to ride it. The girl I saw in Scotland on Friday really wasn't happy. All she needed was a little guidance and something to build her confidence. I think she was just thrown in at the deep end. That's what I was refering to. On the flip side of that, if someone give a little advice (when it's welcomed) and rides something that otherwise wouldn't have thought they could do, I think that really makes their day. I helped a youth ride a black section drop at GT and he was made up. His mates were well impressed with him as well. You're right though, it's about a balance, entertaining people but not frightening them and I agree, there's nothing wrong with walking sections. Again, the example played perfectly in my head but if you were not there, I guess it was missing something. The walked sections I was refering to were the sort of stuff that made up 50% of the trail. Walking a TTF is one thing but having to walk half a route because you've been overfaced is demoralising for anyone.

Leave the door open for people to come in,but you don't have to push them.

to an extent yes. MTB is a demanding sport, in terms of consistent effort and offputting conditions, so you really have to [b]want [/b]to do it, but once you make that choice, some sincere encouragement is helpful. I recall when I was a novice, how one of the experienced members of the club would be taking notice, and see when I'd done something better than usual and remark on it, and I try to do the same 🙂

Alot of Women have children and either don't have the time or the money to mtb.
Most Women I know only considered going mtbing because a male friend, relative or partner introduced them to it. So maybe it's upto the guys?
We think in different ways too e.g a man isn't too bothered about how he looks after/during a ride but women have crushed hair, sweaty cloths, get covered in cow dung etc. it's not appealing. Also some have a fear of the dark and wouldn't like night riding. We can feel the cold more too.
There was the shecycles.com site which closed down recently. I made so many new friends and went on great rides with them. So I would say that is a way forward.

As for Women only trails, mmm it's like saying women only pistes.

Somewhere inside a man is the desire to thrown themselves off and down things at speed, not many women have that. Women don't always need to be an adrenalin junkie.
I personally have seen a huge rise in the amount of female mtbers in the last 10 years. The cloths/gear is better ( I remember having to wear mens shoes and gloves also their saddles - ouch.)
One other thing is the area that you live in plays a large part. If you live near a mtbing type place then you'll see women riders around, but if you're in the centre of a big city it may never have occured to you to try that type of sport.

Somewhere inside a man is the desire to thrown themselves off and down things at speed

I agree women in general have a lower tendency to recklessness, though I know one or two who have more nerve than I, and it's an unfortunate fact that often you're held back more by caution where just going for it shows you can do more than you think 🙁

I think the marketting approach is wrong.

If more women realised how much better their bottoms looked after a few months mountainbiking, there would be no room left on the trails for the admiring men.

Naturally single speed women are the most blessed in this department.

Not sure this helps, but the big break through here was the move from a HT to a Santa Cruz Juliana, made the red runs easy (apparently), she did not see the need for speed or has more sense. Now rides horses more than I ride bikes (they need attention twice a day!! um ..I think my Yeti does.....) and the Juliana gathers dust. There are no women in any of our riding groups and there are no men (or boys) at the stable 20+ horses. So one conclusion is: blokes its speed and competition (that might be against one's self) and women its social and relationships - other riders and the horse....

bunnyhop Thanks for that do you know why shecycles shut down was it due to lack of interest? I find it hard to find people to bike with other than the blokes and sometimes would like to take a more leisurely ride but it seems difficult to get to meet other women or groups even though I live in an MTB area.

Chappy1, Shecycles is still going, although its fairly quiet. http://www.shecycles.net/index.php

I am sure there are a few women in your area.

chappy shecycles went as was covered by magilicia, they pulled the plug, I spoke to Cinnamon Girl who told me of your plight as i'm on the larger side, she has my email if you need it
Gayle

If more women realised how much better their bottoms looked after a few months mountainbiking

the downside being the bruises on the legs etc...

I couldn't care less if cyclists were male or female.

Just get out of the way.

On your right (I'm crashing/tumbling through!)

I find the female cyclists are polite too unlike some of the chavs cyclists.

I have been MTbing for 17 years since I was 13, I got into it young as I was a tomboy and my brother started. I think a lot of the comments above are fairly true.

Women who get into it later in life tend to be more cautious about falling off and breaking body parts/looks etc. I've never cared what I look like on a bike as I'm not trying to impress/pull! I think a lot of women are definately put off by gung ho blokes wanting to rush around and do fat jumps. Me and some mates in Cardiff make an effort to entice new women out into MBing but on women only MTB rides as a starting point. relaxed, can get advice, we can talk about kit (puppies and hair products). They can ask more honest questions, get advice and not feel like blokes are critizing or intimidating.

What annoys me most is why some men are so pig headed sometimes? You ever catch a slow woman up they will make an effort to allow you to pass WHEN possible and I would never harass them. Men will refuse point blank as they don't want to be over taken by a women or they go past you on a descent at a very dodgy moment taking you out and then hey are crap and you end up overtaking! This was a classic that I was having an Afan yesterday!!! Men can be too pig headed to sometimes except that women are better than them. Hence women only groups tend to go out and have a lot more fun ... plus as bunnyhop mentioned there is always cake and tea at the end.

Again a lot of people get introduced through boyfriend/husband and getting/giving advice can turn into rows. You go out with mates you are more likely to take their advice when riding especially if it's a women who you have followed and realise are quite good a downhilling or techincal single track. I have a mate that's pants at downhilling, I can shout at her to get her weight off the saddle or she'll crash, when her boyfriend does they both end up sulking for hours!!

I think definately women only rides and bring back a women only forum. Shecycles was great and very well used with, here just frustrates me sometimes look at the typical first few post responses that you get!! I know some of it is meant in jest but with newbies coming along they may just be put off.

I know some of it is meant in jest but with newbies coming along they may just be put off.

to be frank if they're put off by a few mild ribald remarks being smashed into rocks, soaked in sweat and covered in filth isn't going to appeal either 🙁

some recent off colour remarks by female riders:
1) this is so good, all I need now is an orgasm
2) I make the same noises on a steep climb as when I'm having sex!

Trails graded for women is a bit patronizing IMO.
If there is something I don't like the look of riding then I won't - I like my teeth where they are and do not feel the urge to try to compete with more competent riders - both female and male - I know my limitations. Been out today with two blokes and we did see a number of ladies out riding - one lady did catch the eye of the guys when she started doing her stretching exercises in a low cut cropped top (rolls eyes!). WSD bikes and ladies clothing has come along in leaps and bounds to encourage ladies to ride.
Maybe the marketing of mountain biking in some of the magazines as adrenaline fueled sport with a macho undertone doesn't help.

Boys find competent biking girls sexy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but girls find boys who dance well sexy.

So the moral of this story is for more boys to take dancing classes and more girls to join MTB clubs. 🙂

At the end of the day it'll be up to the woman to start this hobby if she wishes to, same rule applies to any hobby for a man - you do it because you want to and because you can, unless of course you have pushy partners! 😆

I started biking because I was intrigued and overall have loved every minute of it.

Tailoring things to a woman defeats the object as I suspect most of us would want to be treated as equals.............same goes for the birds that play footy.

Bend it like [b]aleigh[/b] :o)

Well............I hate football so wouldn't be bending anything personally!

I don't get all this "male" sport millarky regarding mtb'ing.
I see rugby as a male sport and football(yes I know some women play them), but I view mtb'ing like skiing...a non gender-specific activity.
If women want to ride bikes then they will!
Been out today up at Keswick and saw as many women riding as men.

I do agree that a lot of the time if women want to ride they will, however he less confident amongst us (I'm not ashamed to say I'm not) just need a little encouragement away from the glaring eyes of machismo, and I'm not normally one for saying that. But I really want to encourage more women to MTB I see how much joy, how many friends I've met and awesome holidays I've had through MTbing and I want others to feel my love!

I don't think women specific trails will work (IMO) but rides, support, interne sites then yes, some women will not feel comfortable posting on here, like the recent bloke that asked for some women he could e-mail. His girlfriend has a personal question that she didn't want to post, loads of us answered and hopefully sorted out her problems!

FoxyChick
I don't get all this "male" sport millarky regarding mtb'ing.
I see rugby as a male sport and football(yes I know some women play them), but I view mtb'ing like skiing...a non gender-specific activity.

The majority of women don't like being cold wet and dirty. The majority of women don't like peeing in the bushes. The majority of women don't particularly like being covered in cuts and bruises. The majority of women aren't very mechanically minded. The majority of women aren't interested in tech or gadgetry. The majority of women don't like spending their free time digging in the woods. The majority of women think riding bikes in the mountains is silly/dangerous/pointless etc.

how do you know?

[i]The majority of women don't like being cold wet and dirty. The majority of women don't like peeing in the bushes. The majority of women don't particularly like being covered in cuts and bruises. The majority of women aren't very mechanically minded. The majority of women aren't interested in tech or gadgetry. The majority of women don't like spending their free time digging in the woods. The majority of women think riding bikes in the mountains is silly/dangerous/pointless etc. [/i]

Well thank god I'm not in the majority of women then!! 8)

Oh, and I don't much like peeing out and about...but hey... 😉

The majority of women don't like spending their free time digging in the woods

me either! I want to have fun and that sounds too much like work 🙁

aleigh
how do you know?

Ah.....you caught me out. I realise now that I was making sweeping generalisations based on impressions received from every female in my life as opposed to any serious statistical research.

Oh, and what's all this digging in the woods about? 😉

Oh, and what's all this digging in the woods about?

it's all they have in the sarf where there are no mountains 🙁

Ah, poor sarfunners!!! 😉

FoxyChick
Oh, and what's all this digging in the woods about?

Er, it's just something some men do so we can get away from the wives for a few hours.

Er, it's just something some men do so we can get away from the wives for a few hours.

I don't think it's fair gay men marry women as camouflage 🙁

[i]Er, it's just something some men do so we can get away from the wives for a few hours. [/i]

Urmm...digging in the woods/riding my bike?...hard choice that one! 😉

simonfbarnes
I don't think it's fair gay men marry women as camouflage

I know, it's shocking behaviour. Luckily very few engage in it.

Peeing outdoors is one of life's great pleasures. One just has to make sure one remembers the tissues (and disposes of them in an ecological manner of course).

There is/was a huge gap in the way shecycles and STW forums were used.
Here you can have banter, jokes and aggression all in the same thread.
At shecycles the girls all sort of knew each other (at least by association) and had polite discussions with questions being quicky and truthfully answered. Always a lot of ,Hi how are you, type posts, really happy vibe.
Over here a women can even end up with nasty comments if she posts up anything. This is all imo and then again I'm a sensitive so and so.
As for weeing in the woods/bushes/blade of grass on the moors, it's fine by me.

Yes, but jojo, I like riding in bibs which means everything has to come off!! 😳

FoxyChick
Yes, but jojo, I like riding in bibs which means everything has to come off!!

I approve of this type of thing.

There you go.... One of the reasons why a female might choose not to go on a ride arranged through here. The idea that if she popped behind a bush, someone might be trying to get an eyeful! Despite the fact that the lads you ride with will pee right next to you while you're having your sandwich. As long as they've got their back to you they think its fine!

More seriously - Chappy1 - there was a big discussion about a womens only forum on here, initiated by the STW towers lot. After Shecycles had shut down. A lot of that is repeated on here. Maybe you can search for that thread.

As an aside to SFB - you promote yourself as someone who encourages more women on rides but personally I would [b]NEVER[/b] go on one of your rides as you are not only open about your appreciation of women's behinds (as you say most men are probabaly looking anyway, but what I don't know I don't get embarrassed/angry about) but you then choose to share your comments and photos on a public forum, possibly encouraging men who weren't even on the ride to join in.

*waves to jennyh*

Hello!!! How you doing???
Hope to see you at some event or other this year! 🙂

*waves back* 🙂 Hi FC.

I'm running lots (another marathon !!), but hope to get back on the bike properly after May. Events?......... I'm waiting to see this years mud levels. That Selkirk Merida was the final straw!

jennyh: SFB has his critics on here but to be fair he never posts pictures without the riders consent (and has removed pics on request before), there's never anything other than good-natured banter on the Bogtrotters rides and there's no shortage of women in the club either!

I've only ever ridden with them a few times (usually too slow for me) but the times I've been out with them have always been great rides with friendly people.

Jenny...which marathon are you doing?

Just think of the abs!! 8)

as always an interesting range of opinions 🙂 Chappy1 - shecycles.net is back up and running, and although quiet is appreciated by those who use it. I'm happy to ask questions on ST, but am more likely to use Shecycles to arrange rides or to ask more detailed women-specific questions (for example on crank lengths for short women).

I usually ride with friends, male and female, ranging from those who are slower than me to those who a far faster and more proficient! There are definately more guys than girls though. On the 'women-only' ride topic - I went to Morzine on a women-only downhill skills week and it was ace - a realyy good laugh whilst also being supportive when we all (repeatedly!) crashed. It was also fun to see the reactions we got in Morzine as a groups of women doing downhil mtb - we got strangers coming up to us all the time to ask who we were! I definately wouldn't have gone if it had been mixed as I think that it would have been predominantly male and the atmosphere would have been really different, and I suspect more 'macho' and less honest.

I also first learn to kayak as part of a women-only course (run by the council to encourage more women into kayaking). The guy who did the training said there was a massive difference in the way girls and guys learnt to paddle, and what sort of paddling the women won't to do in the future.

In both mtb'ing and paddling it's always been great to meet up with other girls as you get a chance to try other bikes, swap suggestions for kit, and generally have better trail snacks 🙂

but personally I would NEVER go on one of your rides

it's your choice - but many seem able to put up with me...

I always make it clear that any rider can have shots of themselves removed without having to give an explanation, and only 2 women have ever done this - one because she felt her bum looked too big in that and the other because she felt a shot 'had no artistic merit'. I don't see anything wrong in complimentary remarks about riders so long as they are not demeaning.

you promote yourself as someone who encourages more women on rides

I'm not promoting myself - it's just a matter of record - since I started running beginner rides the club has attracted far more women

Fair enough Crazy Legs - but from reading this forum that is my opinion, and it would stop me riding with Bogtrotters if I knew SFB was going to be on the ride.

FC - Edinburgh. Abs are good from biking too, just covered up a bit. The running does help get rid of that extra layer. Fewer cafe stops and a bad tummy after using those gels!

"possibly encouraging men who weren't even on the ride to join in"

and? 😀

[sorry if you feel harassed about this, but it's not pervy, it's just healthy blokes, see?]