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I regret making this about public Vs private sector workers as there are much bigger issues than that.
Indeed. I’d say that other than a small minority at the very top, ALL workers - public and private sector - have been well and truly ****ed over.
I’m sure that the politicians and business owners who’ve bent us all over for the last 15+ years, enriching themselves and their mates enormously in the process, would be delighted to see people squabbling over who’s had it worse
Divide and conquer…
You also have to consider that private sector jobs on average demand more hours and offer less job security.
Try telling that to a teacher. It's a myth that private sector workers have to work more or perform better. We're not in the US. Some of the people who work at my place would crumble in the public sector.
My point was specifically about pension provision though. Even the least generous DB schemes are much more generous than a typical DC scheme.
Yes that's true but it's probably the only material benefit to working in the public sector. As kilo said most people working in the public sector do so because they want to, not because they have to. I'm not saying wages should be equal to the private sector, but the balance is all wrong and that's why people are leaving the public sector in their thousands. When seeing a GP becomes almost impossible and your kids are in classes of 50 lets have another discussion on the value of public sector workers.
Like most western countries we need to fully reassess how our country works
This. Most definitely this. Unfortunately our increasingly hysterical MSM are preventing grown-up discussions.
Like most western countries we need to fully reassess how our country works
This. Most definitely this. Unfortunately our increasingly hysterical MSM are preventing grown-up discussions.
I better start breathing through my mouth then. I really don’t understand why you should get a state handout for choosing to have more than 2 kids. Why should your lifestyle choice be subsidised by the rest of the population.
Didn't you deny being a right winger a couple of months ago, now in the past few days you have been advocating for the RNLI leaving people to drown and against children being raised out of poverty.
I have a low expectation from the budget. As always there will be an attack on middle earners whilst the asset rich continue to pay nothing. I doubt there will be anything on shutting the myriad of loopholes that are exploited and would deliver huge sums
Had the news on for an hour and I've already heard the phrase 'the bond markets' numerous times. I've been watching budgets for 30-odd years and I'm pretty sure it's only in the last couple of years that the media and politicians have become obsessed with them.
I think the change that's happened over those 30 years is that 'the market', by which I mean the global corporate sector in general, is now far more powerful in terms of shaping/driving the economy than the government. If they don't like the fiscal/employment/legal policies of a particular nation (i.e. those policies won't allow them to maximise profits) they can just take their companies/jobs/capital somewhere else. So governments have to be much more cautious.
I really don’t understand why you should get a state handout for choosing to have more than 2 kids. Why should your lifestyle choice be subsidised by the rest of the population.
Because you're punishing the child who has had no say in whether they're born or not. A child that if they're not born into poverty is probably going to do better in life and pay more taxes if you want to leave the morality out of it.
Try telling that to a teacher
You are trying to argue that a teachers job is not more secure than the average private sector role paying a similar amount? Absolute bollocks..
I might be retired before the tax thresholds are unfrozen (2031) so I guess I can stop getting annoyed by it. Helps me in my decision on whether to push on at work and chase promotion/pay rises or just sit back and live the easy life. Guess I'll be doing the latter. 🤷♂️
Also funny watching tv presenters (I hesitate to call them journalists) have a coronary because the OBR have accidentally published what will be public knowledge in a few minutes time. Calm the **** down!
You are trying to argue that a teachers job is not more secure than the average private sector role paying a similar amount?
No I was arguing that teachers work a lot more hours than many in the private sector. I don't see many people at my company working 50-60 hour weeks. In fact I don't see many at my company working more than their contracted 37.5 hours.
I doubt there will be anything on shutting the myriad of loopholes that are exploited and would deliver huge sums
Judging from the details of the last budget (always worth waiting for the full details) I’d be surprised. Closing down and reducing tax breaks and loopholes is likely to happen in every budget of this government. I’d put money on it. And people/companies will moan about losing their loopholes.
Oh, on briefings, leaks and early publishing… this is like a repeat of the kite flying, mismanagement and media games of the last government. And just as then, should be condemned. All arms of government need to get a grip and release the budget at the budget announcement. Stop feeding the press.
Looks like they noticed how EVs are impacting on fuel duty receipts. How are they going to work a per mile tax on EV's?
When you qualify as a teacher, no-one wants to hire you on a permanent contract. You get 1 year contracts so they can let you go and hire another newly qualified teacher the following year. So you have to look for new jobs each year and it gets harder as you get more expensive.
Looks like they noticed how EVs are impacting on fuel duty receipts. How are they going to work a per mile tax on EV's?
I have no idea, and that sounds sketch AF but I don't object to paying my fair share. EV motoring will still be at least 1/3 the cost of diesel for me. But this will put a lot of people off EVs so the prices should plummet, and I'll be happy about that.
I really don’t understand why you should get a state handout for choosing to have more than 2 kids. Why should your lifestyle choice be subsidised by the rest of the population.
Because you're punishing the child who has had no say in whether they're born or not. A child that if they're not born into poverty is probably going to do better in life and pay more taxes if you want to leave the morality out of it.
what happened to parental responsibility when choosing how big a family to have? Are you suggesting parents should just have as many kids as they like and the taxpayer should pay for them?
Looks like the OBR has just signed it's own death warrant. Someone just did Reeves and Starmer a massive favour.
When you qualify as a teacher, no-one wants to hire you on a permanent contract. You get 1 year contracts so they can let you go and hire another newly qualified teacher the following year. So you have to look for new jobs each year and it gets harder as you get more expensive.
Where?
what happened to parental responsibility when choosing how big a family to have? Are you suggesting parents should just have as many kids as they like and the taxpayer should pay for them?
You can have your family, and then fall on hard times. Death, cancer, accidents happen. Jobs, careers, whole industries, can disappear.
I better start breathing through my mouth then. I really don’t understand why you should get a state handout for choosing to have more than 2 kids. Why should your lifestyle choice be subsidised by the rest of the population.
Didn't you deny being a right winger a couple of months ago, now in the past few days you have been advocating for the RNLI leaving people to drown and against children being raised out of poverty.
perceptions are everything. I’m often accused of being a virtual communist on other forums and have never voted for a right wing party in my life. There are positions to the right of some commentators on here that are still not right wing at a societal level
You get 1 year contracts so they can let you go and hire another newly qualified teacher the following year.
Same for teaching assistants. Lots of public service roles are low pay and lack security (just as in the private sector).
what happened to parental responsibility when choosing how big a family to have? Are you suggesting parents should just have as many kids as they like and the taxpayer should pay for them?
Seventeen quid a week is hardly 'paying for them' is it?
EV drivers do already pay tax to get around, as they need to put electricity into the battery, which they pay tax on! They also get done over by the public chargers charging £££ for p. Would have been smarter to unfreeze fuel duty, to encourage EV up take and more investment in public transport. EV's are/will shortly be paying the vehicle licence tax as well.
Ooof, customs duty on all imports ?
Well, that's a small (but hard to avoid) wealth tax coming in 2028 based on property value. Along with a (small) increase in tax paid on earnings from property from next year. Baby steps, but in the right direction. Expect lots of noise from the big property owners who also own our media.
Salary sacrifice changes sound reasonable, and being delayed 'till 2029 to make it easy to make adjustments.
Business rate changes seem in favour of SMEs in the UK. The long expected changes to make drop shipping small items from China taxable should help them as well.
I can't pretend to fully understand the changes as regards EVs.... sounds like the understanding is settling in that while ICE cars are better than other cars... they're still cars... and help needs to start tailing off.
No I was arguing that teachers work a lot more hours than many in the private sector.
Apologies.i thought you were quoting me, didnt actually read your post correctly!
I'd agree many teachers work longer hours. I don't think that's universal across the public sector however.
Overall. Its swings and roundabouts when it comes to who has it better. As binners points out, we're all pretty much screwed regardless
Mobility thing is a lot of bollox to appease knuckle dragging apes, want a basic MG HS automatic suv?, it’s no down payment and all of your mobility money a month, I have one I got 2 years ago and pay £270 month, done 4500miles in 2years as I ****ing hate driving it, it’s a POS and compared to my previous VW Tiguan
Want a VW Tiguan auto?, I had one in 2018 which was £500 down payment and all my mobility money/month - kept that car for 5 years. If I wanted the equivalent now it’d be £5k down payment due to increase of vehicle.
I think the issue is that people question if that's what it was really intended to deliver?
50 years ago, when not everyone could afford a car there was a logical argument that some people who couldn't afford a car should have one so they could keep up with the way society was evolving, i.e. becoming more car centric. Or because the alternatives weren't practicable (bikes, public transport, etc). Or that the cost of making vehicles wheelchair accessible was a healthcare issue and therefore open to everyone according to their needs, not according to their ability to pay.
Want a BMW X3 or something similar?, down payment was around £7k
Sums it up perfectly, what is the individual and societal benefit of giving someone a discounted X3.
They could afford a decent car already. They gained nothing from it.
As always... wait for the details... but this, so far, looks like a Labour budget. And it needed to be.
The reception on the Conservative benches to some of the announcements is a good reminder why we needed them out.
I'm a bit confused about the £2k salary sacrifice cap for pension contributions - is it that NI will be payable on contributions over £2k, or NI and PAYE?
Just NI paid after the first £2K I believe, income tax relief still applies for the full amount. Again though... always best to wait for the details to settle. Budgets never look quite the same a few days after they were announced.
Just NI paid after the first £2K I believe, income tax relief still applies for the full amount.
Yeah, that's what I thought initially (after reading the OBR leak), but then she said this
"I am introducing a £2,000 cap on salary sacrifice into a pension with contributions above that taxed in the same way as other employee pension contributions,"
...which made me sit up a little, cos that's very different.
As a fairly low earner (by STW standards) on a bit more than minimum wage it's not helped me one little bit. So much for helping 'working people'.
Assuming you have to get a new mortgage deal in the next few years, and have to pay to heat your home, I disagree. If you have kids at primary school, I disagree a bit more. If you'll need GP access and/or hospital based treatment soon, I disagree much more.
Assuming you have to get a new mortgage deal in the next few years, and have to pay to heat your home, I disagree. If you have kids at primary school, I disagree a bit more. If you'll need GP access and/or hospital based treatment soon, I disagree much more.
• We have no mortgage now - and I didn't see how they were helping people with mortgages?
• Heating costs keep rising - and where did they promise a reduction in this budget? They did that before the election and have failed.
• Daughter is 21 and is already consigned to never owning her own house this side of her mid thirties. We bought when were were 22 in 1989.
• GP Access - what difference has this budget made to that? More money is being chucked in but my GP surgeries service is getting worse.
So, bike to work not affected ?
Dear god, Kemi Badanoch is absolutely awful! It’s embarrassing to listen to.
Rachael Reeves is hardly a great speaker, but she sounds like a towering intellectual colossus compared to this smug, whiney drivel
Does she think she’s on some sort of American reality television show, or something? She sounds like it delivering this statement. I’ve never seen anyone look so pleased with themselves. God only knows why?
...which made me sit up a little, cos that's very different.
Can't imagine they'd scrap the income tax relief on pension contributions, defeats the point of making them.
If you go on this page and scroll down to the policy decisions spreadsheet you can see the detail:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supporting-documents-for-budget-2025
The sal sac is a cap on the amount that escapes NI not a cap on sal sac full stop (tho your employer may well pay for it by reducing matched contributions etc).
Nothing on bike to work by the looks of things in this or the full budget document that I can find. Mamils rejoice.
what happened to parental responsibility when choosing how big a family to have? Are you suggesting parents should just have as many kids as they like and the taxpayer should pay for them?
Yes (although it's hardly paying for them). I think it's morally worse to punish the children even if you disagree with the parent for having the child - the child has had no say in the matter.
Looks like they noticed how EVs are impacting on fuel duty receipts. How are they going to work a per mile tax on EV's?
I have no idea, and that sounds sketch AF but I don't object to paying my fair share. EV motoring will still be at least 1/3 the cost of diesel for me. But this will put a lot of people off EVs so the prices should plummet, and I'll be happy about that.
yeah I agree it will take some working out. I agree that there needs to be some way for governments to recoup lost fuel duty with the switching to EVs but I think it’s too early to implement if they really want people to switch as this will no doubt put some people off buying one. Is it going to be self declared? What if you over or under declare? What if someone decides to under declare how will it be spotted? What if I buy a second hand EV that was under declared by previous owner, do I need to stump up the difference? How will it work here in Ireland, I know a colleague who has an EV and lives in the north but probably does 50%+ of their driving in the Republic, or what if you go to Europe for a summer and put loads of miles on, are you paying ££s to the UK for driving abroad? How much will it cost to bring in and monitor vs what it will raise?
If the average mileage is say 10,000 a year why not just add £300 to EV road tax?
If the average mileage is say 10,000 a year why not just add £300 to EV road tax?
Possibly a trial before rolling out pay-per-mile for everyone? I can see a fairly easy way of doing it because you just insist that the mileage is given to the DVLA during the V5 transfer. Anything outstanding will be billed then. Anything overpaid is returned as a refund.
It's insane, the whole thing will almost certainly cost more to administer than it would every bring in in tax receipts and they could have just waited until there was an automated system in place (or started mandating it in new vehicles from 2028). But few of the changes in this budget seem to be pragmatic or sensible.