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@tmh Brexit argument is very much about security, open borders with border controls and staff removed, idiotic immigration policies etc. Brussels is indeed a hotbed, more ISIS recruits per head of poplulation than any other country.
Never said they weren't Belgian nationals or foreign. The Schengen zone means Dave can happily drive from Madrid murder someone in Paris and drive back to Madrid without being checked.It's a stupid idea.
Without Schengen Dave's cousin bob can drive from Nice, to Paris, yadda yadda yaddaa.
What's your point?
There are no metal detectors on the doors, no guards there."
There are no dectectors at a UK airport till you check-in. You can walk into any crowded area and blow yourself up if thats what you want
What's your point?
Schengen is a [b]massive[/b] security failure / loophole. Thats one of the main reasons we in the UK opted out. However free movement in Europe means people can get very close to us with no / virtually no / easily avoided checks.
'Wrap it in Brexit'. Porous borders and freedom of movement with poor intelligence sharing.
How do you think AK47's got into the heart of Europe?
Please don't bully me for being pro-out
Once at Gatwick Mrs Zip and me were given the choice of whose shoes went through the scanner. She was in flip flops and me in DMs. Mrs Zip put her flip flops through.
However after following The Nephilim through Europe the man at Gatwick asked me how the band were. I don't look like a goth just a bald bloke in a check shirt and DMs. I gave him a startled look and he just said "you'd be surprised what we know".
Tour t shirt on under shirt?
How do you think AK47's got into the heart of [s]Europe[/s][b]Belfast[/b]?
Same question, what about drugs?
No t shirt, it's not the done thing to wear a band's t shirt to one of their gigs.
Colleague of mine at the airport, not hurt but caught up in helping people who were. Bloody awful this...
hora - MemberPlease don't bully me for being pro-out
I'm not going to "bully" you but this is still happening to people right now and you're using it to score political points, that's not alright.
Are you sure they just didn't check your luggage and see something?
It's that or they thought you were a football hooligan on the way to a match and checked your financial transactions.
Interesting related read: [url= http://www.politico.eu/article/molenbeek-broke-my-heart-radicalization-suburb-brussels-gentrification/ ]Molenbeek broke my heart[/url]
Hora - same way they got into Belfast I'd imagine. What's your point? That smuggling wouldn't happen without Schengen? And if we're out will a magic anti-nasty field spring up along our borders? Or will we still be as vulnerable as we always were?
Anyway, nice to see such immediate concern for our fellow human beings...
....always wondered why immigration officers busted the wedding before me and my wifes....but laughed and knowingly said "we're not here for you".....
A different era of intelligence equipment and border surveillance. Whose to say there were cohered or complicit workers at the time during the troubles in customs etc? Drugs are big business and many different routes with many thwarted.
I sometimes forget how young and/or inexperienced some forum members are. I've travelled through a pre-Schengen Europe without being stopped, asked for passports, searched etc.
You can often drive cross European borders now without being asked for your passport or searched. Post- agreement.
It has always been the pre-security bit of airports that makes me feel nervous. Arrived at Edinburgh once and the queues before security were all the way to the parking structure. Soft targets indeed.
🙄
You agree that Schengen is irrelevant then?
@tmh Brexit argument is very much about security, open borders with border controls and staff removed, idiotic immigration policies etc. Brussels is indeed a hotbed, more ISIS recruits per head of poplulation than any other country.
No its not for the reasons you have stated - we have opted out of Schengen and CMD has secured other protection. As for idiotic immigration, the xenophobic arguments touted by pro-Brexit teams fall over at the basic level of scrutiny (including if you recall your argument 😉 that there are "many millions" of Eastern Europeans etc)
Ditto hora please don't bully (sic) anyone into being pro-Brexit on the basis of false scaremongering.
NW +1
border controls certainly worked between the south and north in Ireland for 30 years. No explosives, guns or drugs found their way north or onto mainland UK.
border controls are a sop to make people think "something's being done".
As I've said, we don't know the nationality of the mbombers, if they're from Belgium then hopw would not having Shengen have helped?
You can often drive cross European borders now without being asked for your passport or searched. Post- agreement.
Errr, ahhhhh, errrr, hmmmmm.
You can often drive cross European borders now without being asked for your passport or searched. Post- agreement.
So....what is the correlation between this and terrorist attacks?
You can often drive cross European borders now without being asked for your passport or searched. Post- agreement.
Did you ever travel pre Schengen? Passed heaps of borders. I remember a huge line going across a border the guards were having a coffee the hold up was the red cross doing donations...
Why pontificate about the immigrant scum in Brussels?
It's happened in London and Paris too, and was attempted in Glasgow. So surely it's any big city?
So....what is the correlation between this and terrorist attacks?
Porous borders, the flat raided this week in Belgium was full of weaponary
How do you think AK47's got into the heart of Europe?
Ah, it's those pesky foreign brown AK 47s.
You do realise plenty of AK47s are manufactured in Europe?
[i]the flat raided this week in Belgium was full of weaponary [/i]
you know they make guns in Belgium?
Hora - this is low , even from you.
Hora - this is [s]low[/s] dense , even from you.
Porous borders, the flat raided this week in Belgium was full of weaponary
Given the events of this morning, could you please give it a rest.
I'm out. It's like talking to a wall.
That's right Hora, it's everyone else that's daft, not you...
Porous borders, the flat raided this week in Belgium was full of weaponary
Oh I see, border controls effectively restrict the movement of illegal arms - is that because terrorists put their title on their passport?
So we must be super safe given we have border controls, are out of Shengen, and intelligence and police talk to each other? If only...
Its more an indication of the countries security services effectiveness and across the EU. Terrorists are going to go for the easy options. And yes borders are an issue, and that's why the UK is somewhat protected by being an island state.
the flat raided this week in Belgium was full of weaponary
1st hit on Google
Are 'these (automatic) arms' manufactured in Belgium openly for sale to the public with no checks?
Strong border controls, checks, electronic surveillance all working together all thwart and disrupt potential attacks. Belfast was a different era with potentially an element of sympathises within the system in-country.
As I said I'm out. As always with STW there are people who are very rigid in their thinking.
As always with STW there are people who are very rigid in their thinking.
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As I said I'm out
but is it true this time? 😉
Schengen is a massive security failure / loophole. Thats one of the main reasons we in the UK opted out. However free movement in Europe means people can get very close to us with no / virtually no / easily avoided checks.
But you still need a passport and visa to get into Europe from anywhere we don't have agreements with. Fair to assume that if you got a visa for the Shengen area that you'd have got a UK one.
And if you really wanted to, you could walk/ride a bike across most of the world without a passport and hide from police, as noted by most people pointing out that in reality not much changed post Schengen.
Not everyone entering Europe from the Middle East is doing it in a passport.
And with all the will in the world they could still cross borders through Europe easily. Also most of the people seem to have been eu residents or nationals with passports. How would you stop them?
Hora has a point that as usual people are unwilling to engage with. Schengen could only have worked if the external borders of the EU were secured, and if national security forces coordinated. Neither of these things were achieved.
To those arguing that border controls cannot stop every AK47, therefore why bother...please try thinking a bit more before speaking.
The chickens have come home to roost upon Europe, currently writing the longest suicide note in history as penned by Merkel.
Meant to be taking 35 pupils to Belgium tomorrow at 8am. 🙁
To those arguing that border controls cannot stop every AK47, therefore why bother...please try thinking a bit more before speaking.
They found some white old duffer in the South of England, with 470 illegal firearms including Thompson submachine guns, Bren Guns, AR-15s, combat shotguns, 200,000 rounds of ammo, grenades and an RPG.
We're not in the schengen zone.....